Terrorist Attacks - WARNING: CONTAINS DISTRESSING IMAGES

[egg]

2 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Weren't the basic facts :

nutter drives car, at speed, into crowded Christmas market killing people innocently going about their business?

Yes.

No colour., creed, religion amongst that. 

When those facts are known then those facts can be discussed. 

Most people don't come onto a forum posting their assumptions about those absent facts. 

[hypochondriac]

3 minutes ago, egg said:

Manners have nothing to do with you rushing to blame a group of people before awaiting even the basic facts. I didn't realise you actually expected a comment on your daft mcvities analogy. 

You could have responded to the first part of my post if you didn't like the analogy. I'm not even trying to wind you up, I just genuinely don't understand how you could think that Christmas market attacks involving running people over is likely to be anything other than a radical Islamist. I think the fear of being accused of Islamaphobia does weird things to people's brains. What if the next three Christmas period attacks involving running people over turns out to be extreme Islamists? Is it still an unreasonable assumption to make that the next one will be the same thing? How is statistics a difficult concept? 

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, egg said:

Yes.

No colour., creed, religion amongst that. 

When those facts are known then those facts can be discussed. 

Most people don't come onto a forum posting their assumptions about those absent facts. 

How many nutters driving into Christmas markets killing innocent people have turned out to be someone other than an Islamist as a percentage do you think? Other than this recent German case which seems pretty suspect, I can't think of any. 

Edited Wednesday at 19:05 by hypochondriac

[Weston Super Saint]

Just now, egg said:

Yes.

No colour., creed, religion amongst that. 

When those facts are known then those facts can be discussed. 

Most people don't come onto a forum posting their assumptions about those absent facts. 

I believe Hypo is trying to say that since, historically, the overwhelming majority of those incidents have been committed by Islamists, then the immediate assumption is that is what has happened again.

Similarly, if the basic facts were :

2 gangs of youths were fighting in the street throwing chairs and bricks at each other just after the Milwall Pompey game finished, the assumption would be that this was quite likely a 'football hooliganism' incident.

 

[egg]

Just now, hypochondriac said:

You could have responded to the first part of my post if you didn't like the analogy. I'm not even trying to wind you up, I just genuinely don't understand how you could think that Christmas market attacks involving running people over is likely to be anything other than a radical Islamist. I think the fear of being accused of Islamaphobia does weird things to people's brains. What if the next three Christmas period attacks involving running people over turns out to be extreme Islamists? Is it still an unreasonable assumption to make that the next one will be the same thing? How is statistics a difficult concept? 

I don't assume that a particular religious group is at fault. Await the facts, the discuss. It's not complicated if you can keep your assumptions to one side. 

I have no fear of being accused of islamaphobia as I am not islamaphobic. I think some on this forum are though. 

[egg]

Just now, Weston Super Saint said:

I believe Hypo is trying to say that since, historically, the overwhelming majority of those incidents have been committed by Islamists, then the immediate assumption is that is what has happened again.

Similarly, if the basic facts were :

2 gangs of youths were fighting in the street throwing chairs and bricks at each other just after the Milwall Pompey game finished, the assumption would be that this was quite likely a 'football hooliganism' incident.

 

I understand his point. I also know that he is unnecessarily quick to blame the Muslims. He's not alone. 

[whelk]

3 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I think the fear of being accused of Islamaphobia does weird things to people's brains.

Indeed - akin to being brainwashed as they are constantly receiving a narrative about nasty uninformed Islamophobes.  Don’t want to come across as one of them eh

[aintforever]

4 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

You could have responded to the first part of my post if you didn't like the analogy. I'm not even trying to wind you up, I just genuinely don't understand how you could think that Christmas market attacks involving running people over is likely to be anything other than a radical Islamist. I think the fear of being accused of Islamaphobia does weird things to people's brains. What if the next three Christmas period attacks involving running people over turns out to be extreme Islamists? Is it still an unreasonable assumption to make that the next one will be the same thing? How is statistics a difficult concept? 

Obviously anyone with half a brain knows there was a possibility the person responsible was a Muslim extremist, it just makes sense to wait until the facts are know before pointing the finger and slagging off a religion. 

[hypochondriac]

2 minutes ago, egg said:

I understand his point. I also know that he is unnecessarily quick to blame the Muslims. He's not alone. 

Indeed. You understand the point but the reason you think the assumption is unreasonable is because it involves a religion which is exactly why I tried to use an analogy for something mundane to try to make the point. If something happens very very frequently then it's not unreasonable to make an assumption that that is what will happen again. The only reason you have a problem with that statement regarding this issue is because it involves Islam. 

[hypochondriac]

7 minutes ago, aintforever said:

Obviously anyone with half a brain knows there was a possibility the person responsible was a Muslim extremist, it just makes sense to wait until the facts are know before pointing the finger and slagging off a religion. 

I never mentioned anything about it being merely a possibility. I said it was the most likely outcome statistically. Which it quite clearly is I don't see how that is controversial it's factually accurate. 

And I have no problem at all with 'slagging off a religion.' I resent that some fictional ideology has inspired nutters to kill innocent people and forced authorities around the world to erect bollards amongst many other security measures to try to prevent mass murder. I'd be much happier with that not happening. I hate other fictional ideologies that inspire evil like Scientology as well, it's just that that affects a much smaller group of people. 

Edited Wednesday at 19:21 by hypochondriac

[The Kraken]

FBI press conference updates:

IEDs were found in the car as well as at least two other IEDs found planted separately in the French Quarter. None detonated and have now been rendered safe

They don't believe the attacker acted alone and are aggressively tracking down potential associateS

Edited Wednesday at 21:16 by The Kraken

[hypochondriac]

3 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

FBI press conference updates:

IEDs were found in the car as well as at least two other IEDs found planted separately in the French Quarter. None detonated and have now been rendered safe

They don't believe the attacker acted alone and are aggressively tracking down potential associates

Death toll has risen to at least 15 😪

Appalling. Best not to make assumptions about the potential associates though just to be on the safe side. That would be unreasonable... 

[RedArmy]

Interesting that this followed a very similar MO to the German market but one was Isis and the other a far right former Muslim. 
 

What are the chances? I guess they’ll find a MAGA hat in the back of that pickup any moment now. 

[whelk]

4 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Appalling. Best not to make assumptions about the potential associates though just to be on the safe side. That would be unreasonable... 

As to motive, start by making sure you visit all the bars in Bourbon St and ask them had he previously been drinking there and had any grudges with the bouncers
The Isis flag on the truck was probably the original owners and he hadn’t bothered removing 

Edited Wednesday at 19:28 by whelk

[badgerx16]

"Police are investigating the explosion of a Tesla Cybertruck outside the Trump Hotel in Las Vegas, Nevada.

Police said a truck pulled up in front of the hotel on Wednesday near a glass entrance, then smoke started coming from the vehicle and it exploded.

The driver was killed and seven people were injured, police said without naming any of the individuals involved. Officials said all injuries were minor.

In a post on X, Tesla CEO Elon Musk said the explosion "was caused by very large fireworks and/or a bomb carried in the bed of the rented Cybertruck and is unrelated to the vehicle itself".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz7qd97eyp0o

[Mixedkebab]

8 hours ago, egg said:

I understand his point. I also know that he is unnecessarily quick to blame the Muslims. He's not alone. 

Await the facts and discuss is the way to go. Like when you posted there was a big mob at the Brewhouse back in the summer vowing to target anyone who “ain’t” white.  Facts are good, bullshit ain’t.

[Sarnia Cherie]

15 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

Remember it's evil and prejudiced to hear about a car mowing down innocent people over the Christmas period and speculate that he perpetrator is statistically very likely to be an Islamist. Did we find out if this was the case for the bloke in Germany by the way? 

I read that as Germany have decided to send some Syrians back to their own country his actions were a protest about this. I believe he was Syrian himself. 

[badgerx16]

5 hours ago, Sarnia Cherie said:

I read that as Germany have decided to send some Syrians back to their own country his actions were a protest about this. I believe he was Syrian himself. 

He is Saudi.

[benjii]

He's not Finnish. He's 28.

[badgerx16]

''The man who rented a Tesla Cybertruck that exploded outside the Trump Hotel in Las Vegas was an active-duty US special forces soldier and shot himself dead before the blast, officials have said.

Las Vegas police have identified Matthew Alan Livelsberger, 37, of Colorado Springs, Colorado, as the driver of the vehicle in the explosion investigation.

Mr Livelsberger's cause of death suicide from a self-inflicted gunshot wound, according to the Clark County Coroner's office.''

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c86wnx174q8o

[ChrisPY]

On 02/01/2025 at 14:42, badgerx16 said:

He is Saudi.

Vorsprung durch terrorismus