Terrorist Attacks - WARNING: CONTAINS DISTRESSING IMAGES

[egg]

  On 21/12/2024 at 14:44, hypochondriac said:

Frankly you're talking absolute bollocks. I would far rather this appaling crime had never happened. SOG gets grief because he's a hypocrite who downplays child sexual abuse and calls many people rape apologists, racist etc without evidence. 

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From the man who jumped in quicker than a kid into a sweetshop and got it wrong. You're in no position to take the moral high ground over anyone. 

[Turkish]

  On 21/12/2024 at 09:45, sadoldgit said:

Haven’t you already decided that he is an “Islamist”? Do you understand that not all “Islamists” are “nutters”?

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Shut up you fucking prick 

[hypochondriac]

  On 21/12/2024 at 14:48, egg said:

From the man who jumped in quicker than a kid into a sweetshop and got it wrong. You're in no position to take the moral high ground over anyone. 

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Behave. I pointed out the likelihood that it was an Islamic attack based upon the method of the attack which is still entirely accurate regardless of if it turns out to be something different or not. 

[egg]

  On 21/12/2024 at 15:14, hypochondriac said:

Behave. I pointed out the likelihood that it was an Islamic attack based upon the method of the attack which is still entirely accurate regardless of if it turns out to be something different or not. 

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  On 20/12/2024 at 22:19, hypochondriac said:

I saw it too it was absolutely terrible. I despise these people and particularly the evil ideology that inspires them. 

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  On 20/12/2024 at 23:07, hypochondriac said:

It is. Problem is extremist Islam is responsible for vastly more mass terror attacks than anything else. 

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You lurched towards your target and missed mate - unless you now claim that your were suggesting it was an anti islamic attack. 

It's refreshing that that the likes of Gloucester and others were able to focus on the sadness of the incident rather than letting their hate froth over. 

[sadoldgit]

  On 21/12/2024 at 14:13, egg said:

It isn't natural to make the assumptions  you and Hypo did. You were having acid poured down his family's throats ffs - a bizarre suggestion - his behaviour ain't on them. Hypo thought Christmas had come early.

As it happens, the fella appears to be islamaphobic rather than an Islamist, but people assumed before we even know his skin colour. Contempt before investigation if there ever was. 

SoG goes about his business in the wrong way, but I reckon the grief he gets is partly because he's touched the nerves of a few. 

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Absolutely spot on. This guy sounds like the sort of person hypochondriac has been quick to support on here. He is quick to condemn Muslims but even quicker to support those of a far right ideology. I’d never even heard of the alt-right until he started using the Pepe le Frog avatar. This latest episode has been yet another in a long history of Islamophobic posts.

https://amp.theguardian.com/books/2017/aug/30/pepe-the-frog-cartoonist-forces-withdrawal-of-alt-right-childrens-book

Edited 21 December, 2024 by sadoldgit

[whelk]

  On 21/12/2024 at 15:32, sadoldgit said:

I’d never even heard of the alt-right until he started using the Pepe le Frog avatar

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A day’s research get you up to speed?

[aintforever]

  On 20/12/2024 at 20:42, whelk said:

Yes only going to be one sort of type responsible for this.

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This has aged well.

[hypochondriac]

  On 21/12/2024 at 15:44, aintforever said:

This has aged well.

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The motivation behind this individual seems rather contradictory if you look at it (he appears to be supporting Hamas for example.) so I wouldn't say it's entirely clear cut at present. 

[whelk]

I have seen nothing in news about background of this Saudi doctor - strange as he was so obviously anti Islamic and this attack had nothing whatsoever to do with Islam you’d think they’d put a bit of effort to convince people. 
I’ll wait and not get as excitable as those desperate to believe

[Picard]

Hold on a minute all is not settled...

 

 

[egg]

  On 21/12/2024 at 15:54, hypochondriac said:

The motivation behind this individual seems rather contradictory if you look at it (he appears to be supporting Hamas for example.) so I wouldn't say it's entirely clear cut at present. 

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Aww, so you know best eh. Never wrong. 

Bless. 

[hypochondriac]

  On 21/12/2024 at 16:03, egg said:

Aww, so you know best eh. Never wrong. 

Bless. 

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I'm often wrong. Just not about this. Hope that helps. 

Edited 21 December, 2024 by hypochondriac

[hypochondriac]

  On 21/12/2024 at 16:03, Picard said:

Hold on a minute all is not settled...

 

 

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Interesting. Not sure if it's true but it does seem odd to mow down people at a Christmas market otherwise. 

[hypochondriac]

  On 21/12/2024 at 15:55, whelk said:

I have seen nothing in news about background of this Saudi doctor - strange as he was so obviously anti Islamic and this attack had nothing whatsoever to do with Islam you’d think they’d put a bit of effort to convince people. 
I’ll wait and not get as excitable as those desperate to believe

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Indeed. Let's be the bigger people though and not act like @eggand @sadoldgitif it turns out he is an extremist Islamic nutter after all. 

[egg]

  On 21/12/2024 at 15:55, whelk said:

I have seen nothing in news about background of this Saudi doctor - strange as he was so obviously anti Islamic and this attack had nothing whatsoever to do with Islam you’d think they’d put a bit of effort to convince people. 
I’ll wait and not get as excitable as those desperate to believe

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Doesn't excuse assuming he's an islamic nutter before even knowing that it was him, and wanting his family to be made to drink acid. The latter was a disgrace from you. 

[egg]

  On 21/12/2024 at 16:09, hypochondriac said:

Indeed. Let's be the bigger people though and not act like @eggand @sadoldgitif it turns out he is an extremist Islamic nutter after all. 

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You're a prick and completely miss the point. It's you (and whelk) who've assumed who has done this. Nobody else has suggested it is or is not anyone. Gloucester and others were entirely respectful and focused on the incident and victims. You focused on your prejudice.

You keep persuading yourself that you're a decent human. I ain't falling for it. 

[hypochondriac]

  On 21/12/2024 at 16:15, egg said:

You're a prick and completely miss the point. It's you (and whelk) who've assumed who has done this. Nobody else has suggested it is or is not anyone. Gloucester and others were entirely respectful and focused on the incident and victims. You focused on your prejudice.

You keep persuading yourself that you're a decent human. I ain't falling for it. 

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So when a group that makes up 6.5% of the population is responsible for a vastly disproportionate amount of terrorism offences and when almost every single other terrorist attack where Christmas markets have been targeted it's turned out to be an Islamic nutter (including possibly this one) - you aren't allowed to point out that this has very likely been perpetrated by an Islamic nutter before it's proven to be the case lest some fanny on a Web forum who goes around calling people pricks accuses you of prejudice? 

There's nothing prejudiced about it. Based on historical data it's by far the most likely outcome. So no I didn't lurch towards my target and missed, I pointed out the overwhelming likelihood that this attack was committed by an Islamist nutter and that's still the case even if it turns out it wasn't on this occasion (although evidence now suggesting he may well be anyway.)

Edited 21 December, 2024 by hypochondriac

[whelk]

  On 21/12/2024 at 16:10, egg said:

Doesn't excuse assuming he's an islamic nutter before even knowing that it was him, and wanting his family to be made to drink acid. The latter was a disgrace from you. 

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Are you getting a little bit tender for this forum? Maybe even the chap who brought him biscuits as well

[whelk]

  On 21/12/2024 at 16:21, hypochondriac said:

So when a group that makes up 6.5% of the population is responsible for a vastly disproportionate amount of terrorism offences and when almost every single other terrorist attack where Christmas markets have been targeted it's turned out to be an Islamic nutter (including possibly this one) - you aren't allowed to point out that this has very likely been perpetrated by an Islamic nutter before it's proven to be the case lest some fanny on a Web forum who goes around calling people pricks accuses you of prejudice? 

There's nothing prejudiced about it. Based on historical data it's by far the most likely outcome. So no I didn't lurch towards my target and missed, I pointed out the overwhelming likelihood that this attack was committed by an Islamist nutter and that's still the case even if it turns out it wasn't on this occasion (although evidence now suggesting he may well be anyway.)

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There is definitely correlation of those that wail against Israel and are so keen for this not to be what 95% of people assumed. You know those deep rooted bigots who don’t post ‘thoughts and prayers’ and ‘let’s not jump to conclusions’ - the good guys without prejudice 

[hypochondriac]

  On 21/12/2024 at 16:42, whelk said:

There is definitely correlation of those that wail against Israel and are so keen for this not to be what 95% of people assumed. You know those deep rooted bigots who don’t post ‘thoughts and prayers’ and ‘let’s not jump to conclusions’ - the good guys without prejudice 

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Let's be honest, even the people posting about how virtuous they were for not jumping to conclusions were thinking the same thing too they were just less honest about it. 

[aintforever]

  On 21/12/2024 at 15:54, hypochondriac said:

The motivation behind this individual seems rather contradictory if you look at it (he appears to be supporting Hamas for example.) so I wouldn't say it's entirely clear cut at present. 

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Exactly, which is why it makes sense to wait for the evidence to see what his motive was before throwing blame around to suit your own agenda. We’ve been down this road before with Southport.

Edited 21 December, 2024 by aintforever

[hypochondriac]

  On 21/12/2024 at 17:08, aintforever said:

Exactly, which is why it makes sense to wait for the evidence to see what his motive was before throwing blame around to suit your own agenda.

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"looking at historical data it is overwhelmingly likely that the perpetrator of this Christmas Market attack is an Islamist nutter" is a completely non controversial statement. Making a reasonable prediction on a web forum before it's confirmed is completely fair. I'm also happy to say that the next person who rams their car into a Christmas market is also overwhelmingly likely to be an Islamist nutter too because these types of attacks are almost always committed by these types of people. Same thing if someone blows themselves up on a bus or on the tube. If we were in the 80s or early 90s I'd be saying that if I saw a bombing on UK streets it would probably be some nutter from the IRA. Sorry the truth upsets you. 

Edited 21 December, 2024 by hypochondriac

[aintforever]

  On 21/12/2024 at 17:17, hypochondriac said:

"looking at historical data it is overwhelmingly likely that the perpetrator of this Christmas Market attack is an Islamist nutter" is a completely non controversial statement. Making a reasonable prediction on a web forum before it's confirmed is completely fair. I'm also happy to say that the next person who rams their car into a Christmas market is also overwhelmingly likely to be an Islamist nutter too because these types of attacks are almost always committed by these types of people. Sorry the truth upsets you. 

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Makes no difference to me what the guy’s religion is, just don’t think it’s sensible to make assumptions and start slating a religion until the facts are know. We saw with Southport how that can end.

[egg]

  On 21/12/2024 at 16:42, whelk said:

There is definitely correlation of those that wail against Israel and are so keen for this not to be what 95% of people assumed. You know those deep rooted bigots who don’t post ‘thoughts and prayers’ and ‘let’s not jump to conclusions’ - the good guys without prejudice 

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You mean the people who don't think that the family of scum should be made to drink acid? 

[ChrisPY]

What would really piss me off about this is if after they’d seen the initial attack, German police had thought ‘this has the hallmarks of an Islamic terror attack’ and subsequently put in measures based on known techniques and actions in similar cases to try and detain the individual and protect civilians in the area.

[hypochondriac]

  On 21/12/2024 at 17:24, aintforever said:

Makes no difference to me what the guy’s religion is, just don’t think it’s sensible to make assumptions and start slating a religion until the facts are know. We saw with Southport how that can end.

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Nobody was prosecuted at Southport for speculating on the religion of the perpetrator. Of course the religion makes a difference if that's the motivation behind the attack. 

[hypochondriac]

  On 21/12/2024 at 17:27, ChrisPY said:

What would really piss me off about this is if after they’d seen the initial attack, German police had thought ‘this has the hallmarks of an Islamic terror attack’ and subsequently put in measures based on known techniques and actions in similar cases to try and detain the individual and protect civilians in the area.

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I wonder if the police made any assumptions when they saw the attack? 

[egg]

  On 21/12/2024 at 17:27, hypochondriac said:

Nobody was prosecuted at Southport for speculating on the religion of the perpetrator. Of course the religion makes a difference if that's the motivation behind the attack. 

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But you've assumed the motivation. Regardless, it's not usual that a person's focus is to assume the beliefs of the person they assume to be at fault, rather than the victims. The focus is skewed, and clearly hate based. 

[hypochondriac]

  On 21/12/2024 at 17:30, egg said:

But you've assumed the motivation. Regardless, it's not usual that a person's focus is to assume the beliefs of the person they assume to be at fault, rather than the victims. The focus is skewed, and clearly hate based. 

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I've made a reasonable assumption about the motivation based on every or virtually every Christmas market attack of this type being carried out by an Islamist. I'd be making the same reasonable assumption that it was some IRA nutter in the early 90s if there was a bombing on an English street. You're right though, I do hate those who engage in the killing of innocent people in service of a religious ideology. You'd be a fool or a wicked person yourself not to. 

[hypochondriac]

  On 21/12/2024 at 17:30, egg said:

But you've assumed the motivation. Regardless, it's not usual that a person's focus is to assume the beliefs of the person they assume to be at fault, rather than the victims. The focus is skewed, and clearly hate based. 

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Hey egg. Give me an honest answer. What would you say is the biggest threat to Christmas markets that has meant there have been police on high alert and bollards erected in recent years when this wasn't happening before? 

[aintforever]

  On 21/12/2024 at 17:27, hypochondriac said:

Nobody was prosecuted at Southport for speculating on the religion of the perpetrator.

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No but it led directly to people rioting, attacking mosques and trying to burn down a hotel.

[hypochondriac]

  On 21/12/2024 at 17:51, aintforever said:

No but it led directly to people rioting, attacking mosques and trying to burn down a hotel.

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And if they had waited until the religion of the perpetrator had been known or if it had been obvious straight away? How does that change anything? It was the actions of the nutter that led stupid people to do stupid things. Saying a man in Germany who mows down people at a Christmas market is very likely to be an Islamic fundamentalist on a Saints forum isn't going to be the cause of any riots. If for not other reason than that's what anyone with common sense who has experienced attacks of this type before will have been thinking too. 

[pingpong]

I think at least some people on here need to admit they have prejudice, because they have literally pre-judged.

Feel free to justify why you are prejudiced, but I don't think you can realistically claim you are not prejudiced if you posted early on this topic and made a (pre) judgement.

These days, it's as likely to be a jealous incel or a wronged asylum seeker as it is to be an islamist terrorist, so you do have to wait to know. Jumping in with assumptions implies you are more interested in furthering your own prejudices than with what has actually happened.

 

 

[hypochondriac]

  On 21/12/2024 at 19:08, pingpong said:

I think at least some people on here need to admit they have prejudice, because they have literally pre-judged.

Feel free to justify why you are prejudiced, but I don't think you can realistically claim you are not prejudiced if you posted early on this topic and made a (pre) judgement.

These days, it's as likely to be a jealous incel or a wronged asylum seeker as it is to be an islamist terrorist, so you do have to wait to know. Jumping in with assumptions implies you are more interested in furthering your own prejudices than with what has actually happened.

 

 

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Except that's factually inaccurate, both for terrorist attacks in general but particularly for attacks on Christmas markets. Do you have any stats to back up you assertion that attacks on Christmas markets are "just as likely" to be committed by other groups? Or have you just "jumped in" yourself with unevideced assumptions. 

[whelk]

  On 21/12/2024 at 17:26, egg said:

You mean the people who don't think that the family of scum should be made to drink acid? 

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It’s not so bad with ice cubes and a decent tonic 

[whelk]

  On 21/12/2024 at 19:08, pingpong said:

I think at least some people on here need to admit they have prejudice, because they have literally pre-judged.

Feel free to justify why you are prejudiced, but I don't think you can realistically claim you are not prejudiced if you posted early on this topic and made a (pre) judgement.

These days, it's as likely to be a jealous incel or a wronged asylum seeker as it is to be an islamist terrorist, so you do have to wait to know. Jumping in with assumptions implies you are more interested in furthering your own prejudices than with what has actually happened.

 

 

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I don’t deny I have prejudices. Anyone who thinks they don’t is incredibly naive. Saps on here are desperate to pigeon hole. I have worked in Muslim countries, shared houses with Muslims and have no issue whatsoever with most Muslims or their beliefs  - I don’t share those beliefs but that is in common with Hindus, Buddhist etc.

I also recognise that Islam is intolerant of Western values and many preach against it and encourage people that infidels’ lives are worthless so we get these extremist acts of evil Those with runny brains seem unable to process this and can only work with binary thoughts of good v bad, racist v not racist, bigot v non bigot. Incredibly limited in their understanding of human psyches and amusing when they posture on a forum lecturing.

o

[hypochondriac]

  On 21/12/2024 at 23:55, whelk said:

I don’t deny I have prejudices. Anyone who thinks they don’t is incredibly naive. Saps on here are desperate to pigeon hole. I have worked in Muslim countries, shared houses with Muslims and have no issue whatsoever with most Muslims or their beliefs  - I don’t share those beliefs but that is in common with Hindus, Buddhist etc.

I also recognise that Islam is intolerant of Western values and many preach against it and encourage people that infidels’ lives are worthless so we get these extremist acts of evil Those with runny brains seem unable to process this and can only work with binary thoughts of good v bad, racist v not racist, bigot v non bigot. Incredibly limited in their understanding of human psyches and amusing when they posture on a forum lecturing.

o

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100%. My wife's uncle is a hardcore Muslim and he's also a great bloke who I'm going to the Fulham game with tomorrow. My only criticism of him is I can't have pigs in blankets on boxing day. Absolutely hilarious to suggest I hate all Muslims - it's demonstrably untrue. 

[revolution saint]

  On 21/12/2024 at 23:55, whelk said:

I don’t deny I have prejudices. Anyone who thinks they don’t is incredibly naive. Saps on here are desperate to pigeon hole. I have worked in Muslim countries, shared houses with Muslims and have no issue whatsoever with most Muslims or their beliefs  - I don’t share those beliefs but that is in common with Hindus, Buddhist etc.

I also recognise that Islam is intolerant of Western values and many preach against it and encourage people that infidels’ lives are worthless so we get these extremist acts of evil Those with runny brains seem unable to process this and can only work with binary thoughts of good v bad, racist v not racist, bigot v non bigot. Incredibly limited in their understanding of human psyches and amusing when they posture on a forum lecturing.

o

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Yeah, you’re all about nuance. I mean hoping the perps family drink acid? FFS grow up

[east-stand-nic]

  On 21/12/2024 at 09:45, sadoldgit said:

Haven’t you already decided that he is an “Islamist”? Do you understand that not all “Islamists” are “nutters”?

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Do you understand not all Israeli's are Jews?

[Mixedkebab]

  On 21/12/2024 at 16:15, egg said:

You're a prick and completely miss the point. It's you (and whelk) who've assumed who has done this. Nobody else has suggested it is or is not anyone. Gloucester and others were entirely respectful and focused on the incident and victims. You focused on your prejudice.

You keep persuading yourself that you're a decent human. I ain't falling for it. 

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Hey, when you say you “ain’t” falling for it that makes you sound pretty tough! What an authoritative type of football forum guy! 

[sadoldgit]

It seems that our own Islamophobes weren’t the only ones to jump to the wrong conclusion.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/magdeburg-germany-christmas-market-attack-suspect-latest-news-b2668286.html#

i think some people need to ask themselves why the feel the need to demonise all Muslims just because some are extremists. That also goes for immigrants, Asians (not all are sexual predators Batman), trans people, people of a different sexual persuasions, in fact, most minority groups. Guess what, people who are different to us do not always pose a threat to us and our way of lives. This obsessive need you have to try and demonise them all the time on social media says more about you than it ever does about them.

The people who take to the streets and riot against the demonised minorities pose a far greater threat to our society.

Edited 22 December, 2024 by sadoldgit

[whelk]

He hasn’t changed

[whelk]

Also reports he was shouting Allahu Akbar when arrested. That common shout from Islamaphobes. Smelling bs here

Edited 22 December, 2024 by whelk

[egg]

Some information as to the fella's motive. 

Magdeburg prosecutor, Horst Nopens, said on Saturday that one possible factor could be what he called the suspect’s frustration with Germany’s handling of Saudi refugees.

The suspected attacker had made online death threats against German citizens and had a history of quarrelling with state authorities, leading German media to question whether the government could have done more to prevent the attack.

News magazine Der Spiegel, quoting security sources, said the Saudi secret service had warned Germany’s spy agency BND a year ago about a tweet in which Taleb threatened Germany would pay a “price” for its treatment of Saudi refugees.

And in August he wrote on social media: “Is there a path to justice in Germany without blowing up a German embassy or randomly slaughtering German citizens?… If anyone knows it, please let me know.”

[Gloucester Saint]

  On 22/12/2024 at 15:59, egg said:

Some information as to the fella's motive. 

Magdeburg prosecutor, Horst Nopens, said on Saturday that one possible factor could be what he called the suspect’s frustration with Germany’s handling of Saudi refugees.

The suspected attacker had made online death threats against German citizens and had a history of quarrelling with state authorities, leading German media to question whether the government could have done more to prevent the attack.

News magazine Der Spiegel, quoting security sources, said the Saudi secret service had warned Germany’s spy agency BND a year ago about a tweet in which Taleb threatened Germany would pay a “price” for its treatment of Saudi refugees.

And in August he wrote on social media: “Is there a path to justice in Germany without blowing up a German embassy or randomly slaughtering German citizens?… If anyone knows it, please let me know.”

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Also followed and re-tweeted extremist content from Elon Musk, Tommy Robinson and AFD accounts apparently.

Edited 22 December, 2024 by Gloucester Saint

[egg]

  On 22/12/2024 at 16:17, Gloucester Saint said:

Also followed and re-tweeted extremist content from Elon Musk, Tommy Robinson and AFD accounts apparently.

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Seems that there were plenty of warnings about him. Very sad case. Lots of people critically injured too with life changing injuries. 

[badgerx16]

  On 22/12/2024 at 16:26, egg said:

Seems that there were plenty of warnings about him. Very sad case. Lots of people critically injured too with life changing injuries. 

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Some think that the Germans saw the Saudi warnings as shit stirring, so down played them.

[egg]

  On 22/12/2024 at 16:37, badgerx16 said:

Some think that the Germans saw the Saudi warnings as shit stirring, so down played them.

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Blimey, that's awful. Sadly nutters will do nutty things, so warnings must be heeded by authorities. 

[Gloucester Saint]

  On 22/12/2024 at 16:39, egg said:

Blimey, that's awful. Sadly nutters will do nutty things, so warnings must be heeded by authorities. 

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Yep, seems to have been plenty of evidence online he was an unstable risk. 

[pingpong]

Another opportunity to get your assumptions in early,  but be quick, before the evidence or facts come in...