shurlock Posted 8 November, 2015 Share Posted 8 November, 2015 Good day out. Embarrassingly easy, though just deserts for our previous with them. It's inly November and sunderland are deadmen walking. Not seen a performance like that in the prem since we put Reading to the sword in 2013. Clasie was excellent as was VVD, though Sunderland played into our hands. Thought they would get in our faces; but Gomes and Toivonen could neither press nor pass (Toivonen is another reminder of how woeful Dutch football is). At times, our midfield had 30 yards space to drive into if it had wanted. Clasie chose to fizz balls early to feet which had the same effect. By contrast, JWP did very little on a day that he should have shone. In all, Koeman's selection was spot on. Sets up nicely for Stoke and then a run of very tough games that will define whether we can knock on doors of 6th or are interchangeable with the rest of the saggy middle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoPints Posted 8 November, 2015 Share Posted 8 November, 2015 Given BFSs preference for hoofing long balls and with some of the comments in the match thread about the size of our midfielders, to me it made sense to have the taller more robust Yoshida at right back. I thought he did well considering people expected him to be 'torn a new one' by Whatmore on the match thread when in fact he kept him out of the game for most of the match. It's horses for courses and with his display yesterday, I see no reason for him not to rotate with with Cedric when the boss thinks it's sensible to do so. I'd agree with VvD as MotM. Overall I thought we were very comfortable and unlucky not to have got one or two more. Same against Stoke in a couple of weeks and I'll be a very happy bunny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 8 November, 2015 Share Posted 8 November, 2015 Yeah, hit him on the back, so definitely a penalty. There is no doubt the ball hit his arm, but no way was it deliberate, so not a pen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 8 November, 2015 Share Posted 8 November, 2015 There is no doubt the ball hit his arm, but no way was it deliberate, so not a pen. It was the back of his shoulder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 8 November, 2015 Share Posted 8 November, 2015 It was the back of his shoulder. Agreed. I've watched several replays and he's turning away and still has his arms down. Whether the ref saw it ...or not, it was not a penalty Sam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 8 November, 2015 Share Posted 8 November, 2015 Good day out. Embarrassingly easy, though just deserts for our previous with them. It's inly November and sunderland are deadmen walking. Not seen a performance like that in the prem since we put Reading to the sword in 2013. Clasie was excellent as was VVD, though Sunderland played into our hands. Thought they would get in our faces; but Gomes and Toivonen could neither press nor pass (Toivonen is another reminder of how woeful Dutch football is). At times, our midfield had 30 yards space to drive into if it had wanted. Clasie chose to fizz balls early to feet which had the same effect. By contrast, JWP did very little on a day that he should have shone. In all, Koeman's selection was spot on. Sets up nicely for Stoke and then a run of very tough games that will define whether we can knock on doors of 6th or are interchangeable with the rest of the saggy middle. ......he's not so good in his international games for SWEDEN either......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanjay Sanchez Posted 8 November, 2015 Share Posted 8 November, 2015 Think he might be referencing his five years at PSV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 8 November, 2015 Share Posted 8 November, 2015 It was the back of his shoulder. It hit him below the shoulder. But that's not the point. It was not deliberate, therefore it was not a penalty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADutchSaint Posted 8 November, 2015 Share Posted 8 November, 2015 (Toivonen is another reminder of how woeful Dutch football is). Toivonen wasnt even anything special while he played in Holland, he was a 'OK' player at best for PSV and he certainly was no Tadic or Pelle in Holland. The Dutch competition is pretty crappy compared to the Premier League but every year there are a few gems walking around in there and its just a matter of picking out the right ones at the right time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Munster Posted 8 November, 2015 Share Posted 8 November, 2015 Good day out. Embarrassingly easy, though just deserts for our previous with them. It's inly November and sunderland are deadmen walking. Not seen a performance like that in the prem since we put Reading to the sword in 2013. Just like Leicester last season. And Palace the year before that. Clasie was excellent as was VVD, though Sunderland played into our hands. Thought they would get in our faces; but Gomes and Toivonen could neither press nor pass (Toivonen is another reminder of how woeful Dutch football is). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianu Posted 8 November, 2015 Share Posted 8 November, 2015 hakim ziyech? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 8 November, 2015 Share Posted 8 November, 2015 Just like Leicester last season. And Palace the year before that. Glad i'm not the only one who picked up on that, was chuckling for ages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScepticalStan Posted 8 November, 2015 Share Posted 8 November, 2015 Burnley was far from the worst he has taken. The Chelsea trickle was embarrassingly lucky. Actuall I always thought the Burnley penalty was the best he took last season - the keeper just made a very good save. The ones he scored against Arsenal and Chelsea were both quite bizarre in that both were tickled down the middle with the keeper obligingly diving out the way. The one against Vitesse was really the only solid penalty out of the four we've seen him take so certainly, I was taking nothing for granted when he stepped up, especially against a giant keeper in Pantilimon. Great pen in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lallana's Left Peg Posted 8 November, 2015 Share Posted 8 November, 2015 Before the game I was worried about the set-up in defence and midfield but Koeman got it right - we controlled the ball in midfield and our lack of height and physical presence didn't matter as Allardyce didn't bother using his midfield at all in the game apart from to stand 3 yards in front of wherever the defence was. As it turns out it was the front three that nearly lost us the game - Sunderland are the worst team I've seen us face in the Premier League since our return and only the lack of cohesion and understanding in the final third was a threat to us not winning the game. For whatever reason they weren't well enough in sync and time after time the final pass or cross was missing. Sometimes that happens I suppose. However, they kept going and we got the goal we needed and that was that. Though VvD was immense - it was fairly standard stuff for him to deal with but considering Fletcher is so good in the air I thought he treated him like a little kid at times - just brushing himself when Fletcher was looking to physically assert himself. At times the only way Fletcher could compete was to foul VvD. Also love the way VvD was orchestrating things at the back when we had the ball - he is clearly leading Fonte and seeing what is in front of us and passing the ball accordingly. Sunderland are terrible but we still had to win, and I suspect we won't be facing Sunderland again at their place for a few years. They are doomed unless something very dramatic happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 8 November, 2015 Share Posted 8 November, 2015 Just like Leicester last season. And Palace the year before that. Not really, pal. If you had watched Leicester etc, you'd have seen them play well and not get the results they deserved. Sunderland have played badly and got results that they haven't deserved e.g. Newcastle. As for Clasie and VVD, they had excellent games yesterday but have a very long way to go till they reach the heights they did in Holland (VVD's case is different). Many players have torn up the Eredivisie -Toivonen practically had a 1 goal in 2 game record as an AM- but have looked completely out of their depth here. Thankfully we've avoided those busts. Not too difficult to understand, is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Bateman Posted 8 November, 2015 Share Posted 8 November, 2015 Before the game I was worried about the set-up in defence and midfield but Koeman got it right In one short sentence, you've summed up why I love reading these forums [and why the manager has the job he does] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Without a Halo Posted 9 November, 2015 Share Posted 9 November, 2015 See their Allardyce hoof ball style is starting to take shape. Game today, they get the ball in defence, hoof and VvD heads it clear, we attack..... And repeat And some were worried about Ron having selected a somewhat diminutive midfield? Doesn't matter really if the ball by passes them all the time when the opposition have it. In such circumstances where Big Sam tactics are used by the opposition the main task of our Midfield is to set up our attacks rather than break up theirs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special K Posted 9 November, 2015 Share Posted 9 November, 2015 Excellent result at a place we don't like too much. Saw the game out easily, could and should have had a few more goals, but seemed comfortable at about 90%. Continues an excellent run of results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toomer Posted 9 November, 2015 Share Posted 9 November, 2015 Only watched the high lights on match of the day and from what I saw we should have at least three. From the Sunderland kick off at the start of the game ball passed back to midfield and then hoooooooooooooof and that was all they did for most of the game from what I saw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrfahaji Posted 9 November, 2015 Share Posted 9 November, 2015 As it turns out it was the front three that nearly lost us the game - Sunderland are the worst team I've seen us face in the Premier League since our return and only the lack of cohesion and understanding in the final third was a threat to us not winning the game. For whatever reason they weren't well enough in sync and time after time the final pass or cross was missing. Sometimes that happens I suppose. However, they kept going and we got the goal we needed and that was that. Do you think this could be because of Sunderland's tactics? For Mane in particular, every time he picked up the ball they were on to him straight away and often had a second defender covering. Because Allardyce set them up to be so defensive, they could focus on this gameplan; most teams will surely prefer to have some sort of attacking threat... I would like to see us get to the byline and play the ball in across the ground a bit more (like Davis' goal vs Bournemouth). It seems that when we're struggling to break teams down, we end up lofting it in towards Pelle all the time. Occasionally it works but Sunderland dealt with it most of the time. Admittedly, this tends to come from our own full backs, and playing Yoshida therefore limits us in this respect, but think we could still mix it up more than we do currently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svetigpung Posted 9 November, 2015 Share Posted 9 November, 2015 It hit him below the shoulder. But that's not the point. It was not deliberate, therefore it was not a penalty. BUT i've still seen them given. Players must keep their arms by their sides when defending and not up in the air. Thankfully the ref got it right , this time. We've been quite lucky with pen decisions this season, haven't we? I guess this will equal itself out soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svetigpung Posted 9 November, 2015 Share Posted 9 November, 2015 Toivonen wasnt even anything special while he played in Holland, he was a 'OK' player at best for PSV and he certainly was no Tadic or Pelle in Holland. The Dutch competition is pretty crappy compared to the Premier League but every year there are a few gems walking around in there and its just a matter of picking out the right ones at the right time. did you see Toivonens shot in the first half...closer to the flag than anything else. FackingUselss! This is the sort of summertransfer that reinforces that Sunderland are going down. BigFatSam or no BFS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 9 November, 2015 Share Posted 9 November, 2015 BUT i've still seen them given. Players must keep their arms by their sides when defending and not up in the air. Thankfully the ref got it right , this time. We've been quite lucky with pen decisions this season, haven't we? I guess this will equal itself out soon It helped that he had turned his back but you are right, all too often they are given when it is ball to hand rather than hand to ball. Yoshida and Fonte both have a tendency to raise their hands. The MotD panel didn't think it was a pen and it would have been more than harsh if given. There should be intent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 9 November, 2015 Share Posted 9 November, 2015 Yep, found the commentator's matter-of-fact "there wasn't contact so it's not a penalty" a bit frustrating, in the same way pundits say "there was contact so he's entitled to go down there". PS - it seems you are a stickler for accuracy, so I think it was McManaman not McLean ;-) You may well be right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 9 November, 2015 Share Posted 9 November, 2015 But Mane and Tadic switched sides a couple of times. I am aware of that, but that's what they said on Solent Koeman said, and they said it before that happened. It's not like Koeman's allowed to bring Cedric on when Mane swaps wings for a bit, is it? The chosen solution removed the identified problem area in all situations, at the expense of some Cedric overlapping - and a quick look at the action areas (happily provided on the stream I was watching) showed we did almost all our attacking down the left side - whether that was design or necessity I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 9 November, 2015 Share Posted 9 November, 2015 If one of our players goes down and I think that it is a dive I would say so. That was no dive and none of the the TV pundits thought so either. It was definitely a dive by Bertrand, he waited for the challenge, moved the ball enough so M'Vila didn't get it and made damn sure he fell over. The only contact with M'Vila was on M'Vila's left thigh when Bertrand is already halfway down. However... ...the point is when the defender is sliding in and missing the ball like that the attacker is ALWAYS going to ensure he gets clattered just enough to get the foul without getting injured, and the only way to guarantee that is being in the air when you get hit. Bertrand drew the foul, but M'Vila was out of control and it was definitely a penalty (as I've said before, just like Targett sliding in at West Brom was a pen even though the player dived and there was no contact, and just as Butland on Remy was a penalty on the weekend too). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 9 November, 2015 Share Posted 9 November, 2015 Law 12 of the game covers that. You don't have to make contact for it to be a direct free kick/penalty. Sadly, it's rarely or sensibly enforced. Quite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lallana's Left Peg Posted 9 November, 2015 Share Posted 9 November, 2015 Do you think this could be because of Sunderland's tactics? For Mane in particular, every time he picked up the ball they were on to him straight away and often had a second defender covering. Because Allardyce set them up to be so defensive, they could focus on this gameplan; most teams will surely prefer to have some sort of attacking threat... I would like to see us get to the byline and play the ball in across the ground a bit more (like Davis' goal vs Bournemouth). It seems that when we're struggling to break teams down, we end up lofting it in towards Pelle all the time. Occasionally it works but Sunderland dealt with it most of the time. Admittedly, this tends to come from our own full backs, and playing Yoshida therefore limits us in this respect, but think we could still mix it up more than we do currently. We had no problem breaking Sunderland down - they were absolutely atrocious. We kept our shape and that was enough at times to create very dangerous 2 vs. 1 situations on the wings and it only took a little bit of movement up front to pull them apart as well. On Saturday it was the final ball or final decision that was massively lacking - to the point that in the first half certainly Pelle, Mane and Tadic were all arguing with each other after a move broke down. They just weren't on the same wavelength and it probably cost us scoring loads. Our crossing was very bad on Saturday too which didn't help. Everything up to that point though was brilliant - the way our defence and midfield would move into space to create situations where we could switch play and create overloads was brilliant - we pulled them all over the place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrfahaji Posted 9 November, 2015 Share Posted 9 November, 2015 We had no problem breaking Sunderland down - they were absolutely atrocious. We kept our shape and that was enough at times to create very dangerous 2 vs. 1 situations on the wings and it only took a little bit of movement up front to pull them apart as well. On Saturday it was the final ball or final decision that was massively lacking - to the point that in the first half certainly Pelle' date=' Mane and Tadic were all arguing with each other after a move broke down. They just weren't on the same wavelength and it probably cost us scoring loads. Our crossing was very bad on Saturday too which didn't help. Everything up to that point though was brilliant - the way our defence and midfield would move into space to create situations where we could switch play and create overloads was brilliant - we pulled them all over the place.[/quote'] Without sounding too much like Dave Merrington, I do agree with what you say, particularly that the final ball was the most disappointing aspect. The only thing I'm not sure about is the idea that we were carving them open at will. While I remember lots of occasions thinking "hmmm that was a poor cross", I don't recall many (or any) "that was a certain goal if we hadn't completely messed it up" moments. I think that is partly because of the front 3 miscommunication you mention, but Sunderland were also happy for us to have the ball and just make it difficult once we got near the penalty box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 9 November, 2015 Share Posted 9 November, 2015 One thing to be grateful for is we've actually had our two visits to Tyneside and come away with 4 points, although many insist we should have beaten Newcastle, too. Older fans in my generation will recall that when all three of us were playing in Div.2 in the early 1960's, Saints fans regularly returned from the long trek to the North-East cold, wet and empty-handed... (indeed one old fan even suggested that the club would save money if we just sent them the points - by post). Fortunes have changed and with the depressing turn of fortune for those North Eastern clubs, and Saints look a better proposition nowadays. It was often said that we didn't travel well, but the same might be said of them nowadays when they have to travel down to the South Coast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 9 November, 2015 Share Posted 9 November, 2015 One thing to be grateful for is we've actually had our two visits to Tyneside and come away with 4 points, although many insist we should have beaten Newcastle, too. Older fans in my generation will recall that when all three of us were playing in Div.2 in the early 1960's, Saints fans regularly returned from the long trek to the North-East cold, wet and empty-handed... (indeed one old fan even suggested that the club would save money if we just sent them the points - by post). Fortunes have changed and with the depressing turn of fortune for those North Eastern clubs, and Saints look a better proposition nowadays. It was often said that we didn't travel well, but the same might be said of them nowadays when they have to travel down to the South Coast. It certainly used to be the case, until 96-97 when we did the 1-0 treble against Newcastle, Sunderland and Boro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lets B Avenue Posted 9 November, 2015 Share Posted 9 November, 2015 I thought I was at the Stadium of Light on Saturday, but having just read the "Match Thread" I'm now not so sure. Absolutely, fuc kin hilarious and it explains why several of you talk such sh it on here for the rest of the week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 9 November, 2015 Share Posted 9 November, 2015 I thought I was at the Stadium of Light on Saturday, but having just read the "Match Thread" I'm now not so sure. Absolutely, fuc kin hilarious and it explains why several of you talk such sh it on here for the rest of the week. what are the funny bits? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lets B Avenue Posted 9 November, 2015 Share Posted 9 November, 2015 what are the funny bits? Too numerous to list, but Roger's "Madness" post sticks out, along with the usual suspects venting their regular prejudices about certain players. Oh, and yours of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 9 November, 2015 Share Posted 9 November, 2015 Too numerous to list, but Roger's "Madness" post sticks out, along with the usual suspects venting their regular prejudices about certain players. Oh, and yours of course. which of mine? cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lets B Avenue Posted 9 November, 2015 Share Posted 9 November, 2015 which of mine? cheers All of them. Don't put yourself down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 9 November, 2015 Share Posted 9 November, 2015 All of them. Don't put yourself down. thanks for the info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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