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Do people really think we've got a stronger squad than last year/the year before?

ScepticalStan

By ScepticalStan,
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Wes Tender

Wes Tender

Posted
Posted
:)

 

I'm sure most neutrals would agree with me and think of you as a highly delusional Saints fan. Alderweireld has been the best centre back in the league this season. For me he was the best centre back in the league last season as well (for SAINTS) . That is some going. My view is that he is now the best centre back in the league, having been the best centre back for two seasons running. He's as good as any centre back in the world. You're obviously extremely bitter Alderweireld left and I obviously hit a nerve didn't I by rating him so highly! I never expected a hostile response to my post. :)

 

Is that you, Toby?

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angelman

angelman

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Posted
:)

 

I'm sure most neutrals would agree with me and think of you as a highly delusional Saints fan. Alderweireld has been the best centre back in the league this season. For me he was the best centre back in the league last season as well (for SAINTS) . That is some going. My view is that he is now the best centre back in the league, having been the best centre back for two seasons running. He's as good as any centre back in the world. You're obviously extremely bitter Alderweireld left and I obviously hit a nerve didn't I by rating him so highly! I never expected a hostile response to my post. :)

 

 

This really is the biggest load of ballcocks I have read on here for a long time. Hitting a nerve?? WTF are you on about? They are football players, playing for a team that I go and watch. One left to be replaced by another and it is somewhat subjective as to who is better. Why would that hit a nerve? And as for a hostile response - really? All I said was that it was a matter of opinion, and that TA wasn't miles ahead of VVD, and given your opinion about the Watford line up, that your opinion in my opinion was a poor opinion that could be ignored. As someone who actually goes to the games rather than writes nonsense 2 minutes before KO about watching paint dry (sure, you might have done this from the stands but I suspect not) I have seen VVD play quite a lot this season. I have missed the one game at SMS (Everton) and in my opinion VVD is not miles behind TA. He is better in attack for one thing. He has the same calmness about him that TA has. Some think that TA reads the game better, that might be so. But look at the last 3 home wins for example and how many mistakes he has made and how many aerial duals he won, how many times he stopped attackers getting past etc etc, and I'll stick to my opinion. Plus physically, at 6ft4, VVD is a hell of a lot more imposing.

 

You are of course entitled to your wrong opinions, but they are still wrong. :)

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Wes Tender

Wes Tender

Posted
Posted

Here is a comparison between Alderweireld and Van Dijk taken from a Spurs blog site. OK, it only covers 14 matches for Alderweireld and 10 for Van Dijk, but in many areas Virgil has the better stats. When adjustments are made to compare them based on minutes played, V.V-D looks even better. Accepted that many more games have now been played, but bear in mind that these are the stats achieved by V-VD with no previous experience of the PL.

 

Alderweireld vs Van Dijk (Premier League)

 

Games Played: 14 vs 10

Minutes Played: 1,260 vs 900

Total Passes: 713 vs 476

Forward Passes: 72% vs 77%

Pass Completion: 81% vs 84%

Total Long Balls: 186 vs 67

Long Ball Accuracy: 47% vs 58%

Unsuccessful Touches: 4 vs 3

Dispossessed: 2 vs 0

Short Pass Accuracy: 93% vs 88%

Shots: 10 vs 9

Shot Accuracy: 86% vs 67%

Goals: 2 vs 2

Interceptions: 24 vs 28

Blocks: 8 vs 6

Clearances: 111 vs 73

Tackles Won: 37% vs 67%

Aerial Duels Won: 56% vs 74%

Fouls Committed: 3 vs 7

Yellow cards: 0 vs 1

 

Opta Statistics obtained through Whoscored,com and Squawka.com

 

 

Perhaps Method would care to provide the up to date stats to prove his case, but as it stands here, a Spurs site doesn't seem to show this vast superiority of Toby.

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Red

Red

Posted
Posted
This really is the biggest load of ballcocks I have read on here for a long time. Hitting a nerve?? WTF are you on about? They are football players, playing for a team that I go and watch. One left to be replaced by another and it is somewhat subjective as to who is better. Why would that hit a nerve? And as for a hostile response - really? All I said was that it was a matter of opinion, and that TA wasn't miles ahead of VVD, and given your opinion about the Watford line up, that your opinion in my opinion was a poor opinion that could be ignored. As someone who actually goes to the games rather than writes nonsense 2 minutes before KO about watching paint dry (sure, you might have done this from the stands but I suspect not) I have seen VVD play quite a lot this season. I have missed the one game at SMS (Everton) and in my opinion VVD is not miles behind TA. He is better in attack for one thing. He has the same calmness about him that TA has. Some think that TA reads the game better, that might be so. But look at the last 3 home wins for example and how many mistakes he has made and how many aerial duals he won, how many times he stopped attackers getting past etc etc, and I'll stick to my opinion. Plus physically, at 6ft4, VVD is a hell of a lot more imposing.

 

You are of course entitled to your wrong opinions, but they are still wrong. :)

 

.... and it's not as if we did not pull out all the stops to try and keep TA - offering a higher price than agreed with loan and am led to believe matching his Spurs package, but he decided to go to Spurs so nothing we could do. His parent club couldn't give a monkey's as they got a higher fee and probably preferred to keep Toby happy to ease the deal. So a bit of a mute point IMO as we had the ambition and funds to keep one of our top players but he did not want to stay - not sure what more the club could have done, other than find another top CB?

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John B

John B

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I think that our squad is possibly the best we have had for sometime now that we have Austin and Soares and Romeo Claise are starting to play well.

 

The four summer signings have proved to be pretty shrewd signings the old hands Davis Long Wanyama Fonte Bertrand Tadic and Forster are playing pretty well and Targett and JWP are beginning to show more than promise I always thought we had a good squad and it is a shame we had such a bad run at the end of last year but the starting XI seems more settled now after RK's little tweaks

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sadoldgit

sadoldgit

Posted
Posted
Here is a comparison between Alderweireld and Van Dijk taken from a Spurs blog site. OK, it only covers 14 matches for Alderweireld and 10 for Van Dijk, but in many areas Virgil has the better stats. When adjustments are made to compare them based on minutes played, V.V-D looks even better. Accepted that many more games have now been played, but bear in mind that these are the stats achieved by V-VD with no previous experience of the PL.

 

Alderweireld vs Van Dijk (Premier League)

 

Games Played: 14 vs 10

Minutes Played: 1,260 vs 900

Total Passes: 713 vs 476

Forward Passes: 72% vs 77%

Pass Completion: 81% vs 84%

Total Long Balls: 186 vs 67

Long Ball Accuracy: 47% vs 58%

Unsuccessful Touches: 4 vs 3

Dispossessed: 2 vs 0

Short Pass Accuracy: 93% vs 88%

Shots: 10 vs 9

Shot Accuracy: 86% vs 67%

Goals: 2 vs 2

Interceptions: 24 vs 28

Blocks: 8 vs 6

Clearances: 111 vs 73

Tackles Won: 37% vs 67%

Aerial Duels Won: 56% vs 74%

Fouls Committed: 3 vs 7

Yellow cards: 0 vs 1

 

Opta Statistics obtained through Whoscored,com and Squawka.com

 

 

Perhaps Method would care to provide the up to date stats to prove his case, but as it stands here, a Spurs site doesn't seem to show this vast superiority of Toby.

 

The biggest thing for me is that Virgil wants to be here.

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The9

The9

Posted
Posted
We do still have a stronger squad, but when the team isn't as good (as we've been saying all along) you're only going to be as good as the best that team can be, which is still not as good as last season's side, or the year before's overall.

 

What it might be, is better than either of those teams when they have 4 or 5 starters missing, but that's not really the thing that wins you games.

 

Obviously having Wanyama trying and Austin added makes a difference. :D

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  • 2 weeks later...
doddisalegend

doddisalegend

Posted
Posted
We've been playing superbly over these past four games and certainly, much betyer than I had expected four or five weeks ago, but the metric as to whether we're better remains simple

 

Higher points total

Higher league position

 

Which is a nonsense that only works if every other team in the league stays exactly the same as last season. Other teams getting better doesn't necessarily equate to us being worse besides which we are in the same place in the league as we finished last season.

 

Just look at the Bench at Man U away last season

 

Substitutes

1Davis

5Gardos

7Long

11Tadic

27Isgrove

28Reed

33Targett

 

Bench Vs Man U this season

 

3Yoshida

14Romeu

15Martina

16Ward-Prowse

20Juanmi

22Stekelenburg

28Austin

 

Says it all to me

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mattiiiboiii7

mattiiiboiii7

Posted
Posted

Just to highlight how good a point Dodd has just made, full strength using THE SAME starting XI as last night at Arsenal, this could of been our subs bench:

 

1. Stekelenburg

2. Gardos/Yoshi

3. Clasie

4. S Davis

5. Pelle

6. Austin

7. Rodriguez

 

Left out: Targett, Yoshi/Gardos, Juanmi, Martina, Reed etc

 

To me that really does speak volumes! ☺

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Nordic Saint

Nordic Saint

Posted
Posted
Obviously having Wanyama trying and Austin added makes a difference. :D

 

Wanyama has always tried. Like Fonte, it took him a while to adjust to the new players around him. If you look at the stats, he has run as much, tackled as much and passed as much if not more, than any other player in the team. This myth about him not trying should be knocked on the head now. It's massive disrespect to a player who has done a terrific job for us since he arrived from Celtic.

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  • 2 weeks later...
farawaysaint

farawaysaint

Posted
Posted (edited)
Wanyama has always tried. Like Fonte, it took him a while to adjust to the new players around him. If you look at the stats, he has run as much, tackled as much and passed as much if not more, than any other player in the team. This myth about him not trying should be knocked on the head now. It's massive disrespect to a player who has done a terrific job for us since he arrived from Celtic.

 

Who deserves quite a lot of what he gets after his actions not too long ago. Please tell me how often we get into Europe exactly?

Edited by farawaysaint
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The9

The9

Posted
Posted
Wanyama has always tried. Like Fonte, it took him a while to adjust to the new players around him. If you look at the stats, he has run as much, tackled as much and passed as much if not more, than any other player in the team. This myth about him not trying should be knocked on the head now. It's massive disrespect to a player who has done a terrific job for us since he arrived from Celtic.

 

Go and take a look at the last 20 minutes of the first half of Saints v Liverpool in the League Cup, or his performance at the Etihad, and then his performance in Norwich, and tell me he hasn't been ducking out of his duties. The fact we've been so obviously better against Man U and Arsenal recently, which are clubs he probably wants to sign for, tells you everything you need to know.

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Chez

Chez

Posted
Posted
:)

 

I'm sure most neutrals would agree with me and think of you as a highly delusional Saints fan. Alderweireld has been the best centre back in the league this season. For me he was the best centre back in the league last season as well (for SAINTS) . That is some going. My view is that he is now the best centre back in the league, having been the best centre back for two seasons running. He's as good as any centre back in the world. You're obviously extremely bitter Alderweireld left and I obviously hit a nerve didn't I by rating him so highly! I never expected a hostile response to my post. :)

can you remind me what position Toby plays?
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eelpie

eelpie

Posted
Posted

The big plus for me in recent weeks has been the growing influence that Target has been having. Virgil is beginning to equal Toby's defending skills and there have been good performances from Clasie so we may not be missing Schneiderman as much as we were earlier in the season. Against that Mane's shooting accuracy has become wayward, though his runs from midfield into the box have been awesome. And Wanyama's contribution ranges from imposing to average.

 

So it all comes down to form and experience.

Cedric and Clasie can't be compared with Clyne and Schneiders yet but are fast improving since Norwich. So are Virgil, JWP, Targett, and Long. Others are on parr imo. And we have added Charlie. Meanwhile we have decent replacements on the bench, better than last year imo.

 

On balance, in 2016 I think our current squad is just better than this time last year - that is until the summer sales when it all starts over again.

 

All credit to Big Ron. Long may he be here.

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Wes Tender

Wes Tender

Posted
Posted
can you remind me what position Toby plays?

 

Method seems to have disappeared under his stone since his claims that Toby was a far superior centre back than Virgil have been systematically demolished. Ironically it was Spurs fans doing the statistical analysis who provided the ammunition. Although the stats weren't up to date to the present day, there has arguably been quite an improvement in Virgil's abilities since then, so I would be surprised if they showed anything different projected forward.

 

Method has probably gone away to troll another football Club fans' site.

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Cabrone

Cabrone

Posted
Posted

Defensively we aren't as good as last year but not far off. That's hardly surprising as we were a rock for most of last season and Toby was sublime.

 

However Virgil is closing in on him in terms of defensive abilities and has better attacking qualities. Considering his improvement since arriving from Scotland the guy looks set to be a top top defender. Enjoy him while you can, he'll be on his way in a couple of years IMO.

 

Midfield wise we are slightly weaker having lost Morgan but like the defence there isn't much in it, the replacements are good and improving with more games under the belt so who knows - we might not even miss Morgan as much as we thought.

 

However up front we are greatly improved, we now have a specialist goal scorer which will make a big difference. We haven't had one of those since Rasiak.

 

We'll let in more than last season but I believe this team will more than compensate in the goals for column so overall we might be slightly stronger.

 

Having said that we'll probably lose the next 6........

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  • 2 months later...
hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted

Bit of an odd season really. We could finish on the same or even surpass the amount of points we got last year but somehow we seem weaker. Maybe it's because we haven't blown away teams like we did on occasion last year. I'd really like one or two exciting attacking players signed this summer to go with our solid base, especially if we lose Mane. We also need some other players to pick up the slack if the likes of Tadic go off the boil again and a Wanyama replacement.

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ScepticalStan

ScepticalStan

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  • Author
Posted
End of the season a good time to follow the SW time honoured tradition of re-visiting some old threads from this season..:)

 

Well, we've got two matches to get the necessary points required. I certainly hope we do it - particularly as I'll be at the Spurs game next weekend. Testament to Ronald Korman's ability. Best manager we've ever had by a million miles.

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Wiggles31

Wiggles31

Posted
Posted

To be fair this year we've done very well against the top sides but not taken points against the weaker ones unlike last year.

 

We are so damn close to really challenging for the top 4. Just 2-3 players in the window - number 10, direct running winner and possibly a replacement for Wanyama.

 

To answer the original thread question. A simple yes.

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