Fitzhugh Fella Posted 27 December, 2015 Share Posted 27 December, 2015 A good performance but bemused why he can't seem to get past the hour mark without cramp. Do they play 90 min games in Holland? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatboy Posted 27 December, 2015 Share Posted 27 December, 2015 A good performance but bemused why he can't seem to get past the hour mark without cramp. Do they play 90 min games in Holland? No pre season, struggled with injuries, now feeling the pace of a much quicker English game. He is class though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 27 December, 2015 Author Share Posted 27 December, 2015 Often see people saying he had no pre season, which isn't true. He was doing pre season with Feyenoord then did some of ours. He got injured at the back end of pre season. It was an ideal pre season but he did do a large chunk of it. Was really good yesterday but needs to sort the physical issues to have a big impact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 28 December, 2015 Author Share Posted 28 December, 2015 67/180 Xmas mins (37%). Sums up his problem at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 28 December, 2015 Share Posted 28 December, 2015 Often see people saying he had no pre season, which isn't true. He was doing pre season with Feyenoord then did some of ours. He got injured at the back end of pre season. It was an ideal pre season but he did do a large chunk of it. Was really good yesterday but needs to sort the physical issues to have a big impact. He missed most of our pre-season, then came back and then got injured again. Effectively he had little or no worthwhile pre-season. You will not see the best of Claise now until next season. But he will still be effective in the games he does play as he was for 67 minutes on Saturday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
van Hanegem Posted 30 December, 2015 Share Posted 30 December, 2015 A good performance but bemused why he can't seem to get past the hour mark without cramp. Do they play 90 min games in Holland? LOL We do play 90 minutes but the Eredivisie is much less intense than the PL where you have to give 100% for 90 minutes in almost each game. In Holland it's often more of a tactical game whereas the PL has more to do with fysical power and a lot of running. Players in Holland tend to be a bit lazy compared to the PL, with the exception of the games between Feyenoord, Ajax and PSV off course. Not to worry you but Clasie had his problems in the Eredivisie too. He allways played 90 minutes but you could see him struggling regularly after 60 or 70 minutes and it's no surprise he needs to be replaced after 60 minutes or so in the PL. I wonder if he will ever be able to play a full game for 100%. Off course he's busy to get more "ausdauer" (stamina?) but with his short legs there's only so much he can do to improve. Perhaps you should accept it that there will always be midfielders who can't play 90 minutes in the PL because of the pace. Even great players like Iniesta from Barcelona wouldn't be able to make a full game in the PL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 30 December, 2015 Share Posted 30 December, 2015 (edited) A good performance but bemused why he can't seem to get past the hour mark without cramp. Do they play 90 min games in Holland? Apart from Arsenal I don't actually recall him getting cramp before. Lallana always used to get subbed around 75 minutes. Shaw often got cramp. Edited 30 December, 2015 by VectisSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 30 December, 2015 Share Posted 30 December, 2015 LOL We do play 90 minutes but the Eredivisie is much less intense than the PL where you have to give 100% for 90 minutes in almost each game. In Holland it's often more of a tactical game whereas the PL has more to do with fysical power and a lot of running. Players in Holland tend to be a bit lazy compared to the PL, with the exception of the games between Feyenoord, Ajax and PSV off course. Not to worry you but Clasie had his problems in the Eredivisie too. He allways played 90 minutes but you could see him struggling regularly after 60 or 70 minutes and it's no surprise he needs to be replaced after 60 minutes or so in the PL. I wonder if he will ever be able to play a full game for 100%. Off course he's busy to get more "ausdauer" (stamina?) but with his short legs there's only so much he can do to improve. Perhaps you should accept it that there will always be midfielders who can't play 90 minutes in the PL because of the pace. Even great players like Iniesta from Barcelona wouldn't be able to make a full game in the PL. Bit of a liability then if he'll never be able to last 90 mins! Hopefully with a better pre season, he bulks up a bit and becomes the player we all want him to become. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
van Hanegem Posted 30 December, 2015 Share Posted 30 December, 2015 Bit of a liability then if he'll never be able to last 90 mins! Hopefully with a better pre season, he bulks up a bit and becomes the player we all want him to become. I don't know if you could call it a liability, maybe it's a fact that the pace in the PL forces a manager to make a gameplan in which is decided at forehand who will be replaced after 60 minutes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 2 January, 2016 Share Posted 2 January, 2016 (edited) I don't know if you could call it a liability, maybe it's a fact that the pace in the PL forces a manager to make a gameplan in which is decided at forehand who will be replaced after 60 minutes? I think it's more of an issue of stamina. I wrote (on another thread) reminding people that some midfielders can cover almost 10,000 metres in a game, as well as sprinting, tackling and passing the ball on numerous times. This is considerably more than other positions (CB or FB - even wingers) who are less involved in the game). Adam Lallana came in for a lot of criticism from many on here (for several reasons), but no-one could fault his work rate, or say he didn't put in his shift over 60/75 mins. Why do so many people think that someone is " less of a player " because they don't play out 95 mins. every game?... Besides the " bench players " also need to get game-time for those occasions when they must play, in occasions of injury, or suspension. Doing OK in training isn't the same. Edited 2 January, 2016 by david in sweden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Globetrotter Posted 2 January, 2016 Share Posted 2 January, 2016 Must have been his longest time on pitch for us today? No cramp, another positive ;-) Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red&white56 Posted 2 January, 2016 Share Posted 2 January, 2016 thought he had a good game for us today, if that helps........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Kint Posted 2 January, 2016 Share Posted 2 January, 2016 thought he had a good game for us today, if that helps........... He's a very good player I think. His passing is on a different level to any midfielder we have and I love the fact he's always looking to pass the ball forwards, not sideways or backwards. The key is getting the right player alongside him. He lacks physicality and pace, so an athletic and quick player is a must to play with him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 2 January, 2016 Share Posted 2 January, 2016 Must have been his longest time on pitch for us today? No cramp, another positive ;-) How many times has he actually had cramp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nordic Saint Posted 3 January, 2016 Share Posted 3 January, 2016 We have learned more about him now. He is a defensive midfielder who can't defend. Opponents just ghost past him like he's not there. He is possibly the weakest tackler I've seen in a Saints team in recent years, and there have been a few poor ones. I think even Ward-Prowse is better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austsaint Posted 3 January, 2016 Share Posted 3 January, 2016 We have learned more about him now. He is a defensive midfielder who can't defend. Opponents just ghost past him like he's not there. He is possibly the weakest tackler I've seen in a Saints team in recent years, and there have been a few poor ones. I think even Ward-Prowse is better. I'd argue your assessment - Clasie can press and tackle but he's not particularly quick. He is also showing the capacity to move the ball forward at speed and pick a pass out in dangerous areas. As for Ward-Prowse being a better tackler!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
van Hanegem Posted 3 January, 2016 Share Posted 3 January, 2016 We have learned more about him now. He is a defensive midfielder who can't defend. Opponents just ghost past him like he's not there. He is possibly the weakest tackler I've seen in a Saints team in recent years, and there have been a few poor ones. I think even Ward-Prowse is better. Maybe Koeman should have replaced him after 60 minutes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 7 January, 2016 Author Share Posted 7 January, 2016 Be interesting to see if Jordy can play all three of the next games considering VW is out of the next two. Hope he can, has definitely improved although still to me seems physically lacking to be a real factor in PL games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Rees Posted 7 January, 2016 Share Posted 7 January, 2016 Be interesting to see if Jordy can play all three of the next games considering VW is out of the next two. Hope he can, has definitely improved although still to me seems physically lacking to be a real factor in PL games. Could also be an opportunity for Reed to get some decent game time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 9 January, 2016 Author Share Posted 9 January, 2016 Three months of fitness and 6 since he joined the club and still cannot play more than 75mins? That is poor. Also a limitation as basically takes away a substitution depending on the state of the game. From what we have seen so far the positives (some nice passes) don't really outweigh the physical negatives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 9 January, 2016 Share Posted 9 January, 2016 fuking crap signing lets be honest Cedric average at the very best VvD decent what a crap summer transfer window Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint77 Posted 9 January, 2016 Share Posted 9 January, 2016 fuking crap signing lets be honest Cedric average at the very best VvD decent what a crap summer transfer window Same as the crap that comes out of your mouth ****man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 9 January, 2016 Share Posted 9 January, 2016 Same as the crap that comes out of your mouth ****man what is crap about what I said? tell us about how good clasie has been for us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint77 Posted 9 January, 2016 Share Posted 9 January, 2016 what is crap about what I said? tell us about how good clasie has been for us? Your a doom and gloom merchant ****man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 9 January, 2016 Share Posted 9 January, 2016 Your a doom and gloom merchant ****man saying how it is. unless you think 8 defeats in 10 is something not to be worried about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALWAYS_SFC Posted 9 January, 2016 Share Posted 9 January, 2016 Your a doom and gloom merchant ****man With his utter disdain for everything saints he must hate us.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenridge Posted 9 January, 2016 Share Posted 9 January, 2016 The apparent issue with Clasie not being able to last 90 minutes is quite strange. I'm surprised Ron has never explained why. He's 24 so physically mature, he's played 35+ games a season for several years and had a solid pre-season it would seem and had 5 months of adapting to Premier league pace and physicalities. He's obviously had some niggles whilst here's been here but you would think he should be there by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dangermouth Posted 9 January, 2016 Share Posted 9 January, 2016 I think he's a good player but if he can't regularly both stop being so lightweight in tackles when needed and last 90 minutes regularly I'd get rid of him. I agree that you should not have your substitutions restricted because you know you'll need to bring on a replacement for him. I do wonder how he feels about it. He seems a fighter and not someone to freeload (e.g. perhaps Ramirez) so I can't imagine he's especially happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 9 January, 2016 Share Posted 9 January, 2016 Clasie played well today, he put in some decent passes, certainly closed down tightly properly and made contact and won two or three crunching tackles. He certainly didn't look done in when substituted by the really underwhelming JWP. One goal down and one of the better players replaced by the negative wonder boy. Clasie and Romeu looked pretty decent in the centre. Davis as a forward is hurting us far more especially as some of our chances fell to him and were promptly bottled. Until Koeman stops picking negative formations and plays more proper forwards we will struggle. He has to have four players that can get goals and that isn't Davis, JWP or Tadic. Time to give Seager a go with Mane, Long, and maybe Pelle as a pair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dangermouth Posted 9 January, 2016 Share Posted 9 January, 2016 Clasie played well today, he put in some decent passes, certainly closed down tightly properly and made contact and won two or three crunching tackles. He certainly didn't look done in when substituted by the really underwhelming JWP. One goal down and one of the better players replaced by the negative wonder boy. Clasie and Romeu looked pretty decent in the centre. Davis as a forward is hurting us far more especially as some of our chances fell to him and were promptly bottled. Until Koeman stops picking negative formations and plays more proper forwards we will struggle. He has to have four players that can get goals and that isn't Davis, JWP or Tadic. Time to give Seager a go with Mane, Long, and maybe Pelle as a pair. Then I agree with you that Seager should have been given a chance. I don't especially rate him, but he is a goalscorer. As to your question to Guan on the other thread, I think the answer is that the preferred formation is 4-3-3 as has always been the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shance Posted 10 January, 2016 Share Posted 10 January, 2016 fuking crap signing lets be honest Cedric average at the very best VvD decent what a crap summer transfer window Mate, if I was you i'd take a step back and actually watch him play. Yes there are question marks around his ability to play 90 minutes but if you watch him play you'd realise that he is one of our best players. When we first got Morgan he was very lightweight and I honestly didn't think he'd make it in this country. Now look at him. Next season, with a full pre season under his belt and hopefully a little bulking up we are going to see exactly what Clasie is capable of. A high energy box to box midfielder with an exceptional passing range. Stop writing him off ffs and stop calling him a crap signing. He isn't. He's quality. When will some of our fans learn to give players time to settle? It's infuriating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 10 January, 2016 Share Posted 10 January, 2016 He was our best player yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 10 January, 2016 Share Posted 10 January, 2016 Mate, if I was you i'd take a step back and actually watch him play. Yes there are question marks around his ability to play 90 minutes but if you watch him play you'd realise that he is one of our best players. When we first got Morgan he was very lightweight and I honestly didn't think he'd make it in this country. Now look at him. Next season, with a full pre season under his belt and hopefully a little bulking up we are going to see exactly what Clasie is capable of. A high energy box to box midfielder with an exceptional passing range. Stop writing him off ffs and stop calling him a crap signing. He isn't. He's quality. When will some of our fans learn to give players time to settle? It's infuriating. I suggest you step and actually watch him play, pal. He will never be a high energy box to box midfielder. If he does become that, it'll be contrary to everything he's done in his career so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 10 January, 2016 Share Posted 10 January, 2016 It's a pretty poor state of affairs methinks if £8m doesn't get you a player capable of running around for 90 minutes any longer. As for the likelihood of his body adapting to the physical demands of British Football by next season ... well I have to point out that he is 24 years old now and not a teenager. But clearly - just like Gaston Ramirez - this player has some real ability. However, whether that talent will ever be translated into him becoming a true force in all the ruff and tumble of your typical English midfield battle remains something of a open question at this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 10 January, 2016 Share Posted 10 January, 2016 I thought Classie had an a good game yesterday. His passing was excellent, and I was especially impressed at the number of times he looked to play it forward to players between the lines. The other part of his game, the off the ball stuff such as closing down, getting goal side, tackling, hustling and winning second ball was much much better. He still can't win anything in the air of course, but he was much more effective. If we can add the right players around him, with some height, then he could be a good signing for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamthesaint Posted 10 January, 2016 Share Posted 10 January, 2016 Yeah I'm still optimistic about Clasie. It's frustrating being as we splashed so much on him but he'll come good. I'm still hopeful we'll see Ramirez give us a swan song.......ummmm nope. Now that friends that was a huge waste of money. Him and Osvaldo cost this club £50M in transfer and wages combined. Astute running of a club? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shance Posted 10 January, 2016 Share Posted 10 January, 2016 I suggest you step and actually watch him play, pal. He will never be a high energy box to box midfielder. If he does become that, it'll be contrary to everything he's done in his career so far. Ha. Well we'll see I suppose. He covers a lot of ground when he's on the pitch and is full of beans until around the 70th minute where he fades. If he can step up his fitness to Pochettino levels then that's exactly what he'll be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALWAYS_SFC Posted 10 January, 2016 Share Posted 10 January, 2016 Yeah I'm still optimistic about Clasie. It's frustrating being as we splashed so much on him but he'll come good. I'm still hopeful we'll see Ramirez give us a swan song.......ummmm nope. Now that friends that was a huge waste of money. Him and Osvaldo cost this club £50M in transfer and wages combined. Astute running of a club? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk None of this was by the current set up, so your point is what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shance Posted 10 January, 2016 Share Posted 10 January, 2016 Yeah I'm still optimistic about Clasie. It's frustrating being as we splashed so much on him but he'll come good. I'm still hopeful we'll see Ramirez give us a swan song.......ummmm nope. Now that friends that was a huge waste of money. Him and Osvaldo cost this club £50M in transfer and wages combined. Astute running of a club? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk No but you can cherry pick mistakes like this from every single club in world football. What makes Saints so special that every signing we make should be an instant hit? I'll be the first to admit that I had high hopes with Ramirez after seeing some of his football in Serie A and yes, he and Osvaldo were monumental flops, but it happens. Blue line, move on and all that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 10 January, 2016 Share Posted 10 January, 2016 It's a pretty poor state of affairs methinks if £8m doesn't get you a player capable of running around for 90 minutes any longer. As for the likelihood of his body adapting to the physical demands of British Football by next season ... well I have to point out that he is 24 years old now and not a teenager. But clearly - just like Gaston Ramirez - this player has some real ability. However, whether that talent will ever be translated into him becoming a true force in all the ruff and tumble of your typical English midfield battle remains something of a open question at this time. He's getting better. He used to be substituted at around 60 minutes but yesterday he got to 76. At this rate he might last the whole game by sometime in Late September. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggles31 Posted 10 January, 2016 Share Posted 10 January, 2016 The usual suspects rubbishing Clasie and those that watched him yesterday saying he was our best player. Wonder who I will side with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFC-TID! Posted 10 January, 2016 Share Posted 10 January, 2016 He is improving. I thought he was one of the better players yesterday. He's got a great killer pass in him and is like a little terrier. What happened to him as the playmaker behind the striker that was talked about when he joined? We need to hope Jay comes back and finds form quickly, I'm sure by now RoKo thought he'd be up and running at full fitness and he is a goal scorer. Pelle too needs to come back bang at it. It is fine margins but ultimately we've lost 9 from the last 11. Ronald can't have long left to turn this around.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 10 January, 2016 Author Share Posted 10 January, 2016 The usual suspects rubbishing Clasie and those that watched him yesterday saying he was our best player. Wonder who I will side with? Its not the quality thats questioned. Its the fitness and ability to play a whole game in a key position. He has been subbed in 100% of his starts for us which is just odd. Robs us of an additional tactical sub to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 10 January, 2016 Share Posted 10 January, 2016 Its not the quality thats questioned. Its the fitness and ability to play a whole game in a key position. He has been subbed in 100% of his starts for us which is just odd. Robs us of an additional tactical sub to use. Were you at the game yesterday? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 10 January, 2016 Author Share Posted 10 January, 2016 Were you at the game yesterday? Not yesterday, no. But everyone knew Clasie wouldn't play 90mins and there is no chance anyone was suprised when he went off. It was very predictable. I was at Norwich and we left him on a couple of mins too long, he was knackered, got easily done for their goal then hooked straight away. The non completion of 90mins in that position is a bit of a liability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daft Kerplunk Posted 10 January, 2016 Share Posted 10 January, 2016 Not yesterday, no. But everyone knew Clasie wouldn't play 90mins and there is no chance anyone was suprised when he went off. It was very predictable. I was at Norwich and we left him on a couple of mins too long, he was knackered, got easily done for their goal then hooked straight away. The non completion of 90mins in that position is a bit of a liability. If you'd been there yesterday you'd have seen that he could have probably played on. I think this agenda against Clasie of yours is pretty misplaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 10 January, 2016 Share Posted 10 January, 2016 If you'd been there yesterday you'd have seen that he could have probably played on. I think this agenda against Clasie of yours is pretty misplaced. Glad you said that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 10 January, 2016 Share Posted 10 January, 2016 The usual suspects rubbishing Clasie and those that watched him yesterday saying he was our best player. Wonder who I will side with? I singled him out at half time (along with Targett) as one of our poorest performers. Better 2nd half. IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 10 January, 2016 Share Posted 10 January, 2016 I think he's been alright in the last few games if I'm honest, started to see his ability coming out in terms of passing/dictating. I'm not sure what people expect from him, but he's not a box to box type. He's a CM, who will probably just stay in CM and spray the ball around whilst breaking up occasional attacks. Not a glamorous role per-say, but it will become more influential as time goes on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersonic Posted 10 January, 2016 Share Posted 10 January, 2016 One of our best players yesterday, he's developing and adapting to the British game. He'll be a decent signing for us. Not to bothered with the fact he was subbed yesterday as we have 2 must win league games this week and we have no Wanyama on Wednesday. Who he was replaced by is the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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