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Russian Airliner Crashes in Egypt


Lighthouse

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Is this a game changer?

 

Is it time to bring to an end the practice of repairing structurally damaged aeroplanes and putting them back into service?

 

 

Even considering Russia's poor record, it would be shocking if a plane on the verge of disintegration was given the go ahead to fly.

Then again, it has happened before.

 

How likely is it that a bomb was planted on the plane? It can't be impossible for an ISIS affiliate to infiltrate a package through someone at security.

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I think the fact that this plane was operated by a Russian airline is irrelevant. I don't think this incident is maintenance-related. The plane's owners would have independent engineers monitoring all the maintenance to make sure it was done properly and on-time.

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I think the fact that this plane was operated by a Russian airline is irrelevant. I don't think this incident is maintenance-related. The plane's owners would have independent engineers monitoring all the maintenance to make sure it was done properly and on-time.

 

They hadnt paid their staff for two months apparently so you cant taker anything for granted. There is also previous history for accidents after botched repairs on tailstrikes, years after the event. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Airlines_Flight_611

 

Obviously a bomb onboard is possibility too. Its too early to say.

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There are tailstrikes and tailstrikes. This was a landing incident. The plane landed on it's tail instead of it's wheels.

 

Too early to say? My post clearly says it's what I think. I accept it will be several years before the final report comes out. But the tail fell off this aeroplane at cruising altitude, and 4 days after the crash there is no evidence of terrorism.

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We can speculate all day long (and hasn't there been a statement to say it came from an external force?) but until someone officially comes out and says it was a structural fault, a bomb or a missile we wont know what caused it.

 

What rascals those IS fighters are eh? Still, they'll probably stop downing passenger jets after some good conversations.

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What rascals those IS fighters are eh? Still, they'll probably stop downing passenger jets after some good conversations.

 

Oh dear Hypo, you really need to get out more mate. As for IS. Where is your evidence that they brought the plane down? Here's a thought for you - wouldn't it be good if all of IS move into the same area so that they could feel more comfortable together, then we could bomb them all to hell and the problem would go away.

 

By the way, my original point was that we would end up sitting around the table with Muslim Extremists (and I wasn't just talking of IS) in order to find a way forward at some point. You seem to think the only solution will be to kill them all. Good luck with that.

Edited by sadoldgit
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I can't remember whether the 321 (stretched 320) had a buffer on the tail to absorb damage. I flew the B767-300 which had a hydraulic buffer. The B737-400 had a basic buffer. Although over holding off with power on could cause a tail strike I find it difficult envisaging how an aircraft could land on it's tail without the tail breaking off, ie. stalling in. Most tail strikes I have been aware of were over-rotating on take off.

 

The aircraft was Irish registered and certainly flown by Tui/First Choice/Thomson possibly one of the original 321s of Air UK Leisure/Leisure International which went to Air 2000 then First Choice after the Unijet takeover.

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I can't remember whether the 321 (stretched 320) had a buffer on the tail to absorb damage. I flew the B767-300 which had a hydraulic buffer. The B737-400 had a basic buffer. Although over holding off with power on could cause a tail strike I find it difficult envisaging how an aircraft could land on it's tail without the tail breaking off, ie. stalling in. Most tail strikes I have been aware of were over-rotating on take off.

 

The aircraft was Irish registered and certainly flown by Tui/First Choice/Thomson possibly one of the original 321s of Air UK Leisure/Leisure International which went to Air 2000 then First Choice after the Unijet takeover.

It was originally with MEA from new for about 6 years (when the tail strike happened) up till early naughties. Then it went into a stage of alternating between Turkey and Saudi Arabia until 2012 when it went to Metrojet. I think it's been owned by ILFC the whole time. Noteworthy that it carried a French registration while it was at MEA, so there might be a BEA accident report about the tailstrike incident somewhere. That might throw some light on what actually happened.

 

Interesting statements by our government. That should get a reaction from the Egyptians and Russians.

Edited by hutch
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Uhoh...what bad news is in the offing today then?

 

Take your pick! Big demonstrations in central London (not covered by the media), Jeremy Hunt being caught out by spinning the so-called pay rise for junior doctors, Home Secretary announcing more snooping, David Cameron looking even more of a **** in PMQs.........

 

And that was just yesterday!

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Take your pick! Big demonstrations in central London (not covered by the media), Jeremy Hunt being caught out by spinning the so-called pay rise for junior doctors, Home Secretary announcing more snooping, David Cameron looking even more of a **** in PMQs.........

 

And that was just yesterday!

We said there was a bomb on the plane to cover up Prime Minister's Questions?

 

The other stuff you talk about I knew about through hearing about it/reading about it on the news. Which is, like, the media and stuff.

 

As cover ups go, pretty weak effort then.

Edited by CB Fry
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We said there was a bomb on the plane to cover up Prime Minister's Questions?

 

The other stuff you talk about I knew about through hearing about it/reading about it on the news. Which is, like, the media and stuff.

 

As cover ups go, pretty weak effort then.

 

At the time, the rest of the world thought Cameron had been a bit previous - jumping to conclusions before the facts were known.

 

As for your last sentence - well, let's face it, this government IS pretty weak. U turns left, right and centre!

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At the time, the rest of the world thought Cameron had been a bit previous - jumping to conclusions before the facts were known.

 

As for your last sentence - well, let's face it, this government IS pretty weak. U turns left, right and centre!

 

im sure he knew from the off what it was.

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Yesterday I finished watching the amazing German TV East-West Spy Thriller Series "DEUTSCHLAND'83" which is currently a big hit in the States. It focus's on events on both side of the German border as a result of the Cold War sparring between the Big Powers.

 

What came across as a very interesting event at the time and karmatic justice in the light of the recent downing of the Russian air craft at Sharm el Sheik, was the 1983 September 1st shooting down by the Soviets of a Korean Passenger Airliner, KAL007 killing all 269 innocent passengers and crew aboard. It was an event that the entire world have long forgotten.

 

Anyone interested in watching DEUTSCHLAND'83 can do so for FREE at:

 

http://www.couchtuner.la/watch-deutschland-83-online/

 

WARNING: German with English subtitles yet this didn't put of the American public.

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At the time, the rest of the world thought Cameron had been a bit previous - jumping to conclusions before the facts were known.

 

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

 

I'm sure you will be big enough to apologise.

 

Your agenda is boring, your digs consistent as are your faux pars.

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Yesterday I finished watching the amazing German TV East-West Spy Thriller Series "DEUTSCHLAND'83" which is currently a big hit in the States. It focus's on events on both side of the German border as a result of the Cold War sparring between the Big Powers.

 

What came across as a very interesting event at the time and karmatic justice in the light of the recent downing of the Russian air craft at Sharm el Sheik, was the 1983 September 1st shooting down by the Soviets of a Korean Passenger Airliner, KAL007 killing all 269 innocent passengers and crew aboard. It was an event that the entire world have long forgotten.

 

Anyone interested in watching DEUTSCHLAND'83 can do so for FREE at:

 

http://www.couchtuner.la/watch-deutschland-83-online/

 

WARNING: German with English subtitles yet this didn't put of the American public.

 

well they also shot down a Malaysian airliner just last year (ok, it was a former Soviet state militant faction with Russian support for the forum pedants) if it's karma you're after.

 

I will say though, all the passengers all the flights were innocent people just flying around and it's very distateful to talk about karma in that regard I think.

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Alan Johnson ex home sec , and no friend of Cameron's said that there is no doubt that Cameron will have had rock solid inteligence before making a statement like that . To put it in the Labour " good day to bury bad news" bag is nonsense.

 

the PM probably could tell the world which group did it and more than likely, how.

but it is not his gig and im sure some of that information has been shared.

 

it is a media ding-dong at the mo on how to 'manage' it all

 

I think BTF is just way off the mark

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What rascals those IS fighters are eh? Still, they'll probably stop downing passenger jets after some good conversations.

 

For info, on BBC Radio 4 this evening on the Analysis programme they looked at the issue of whether using psychology could help in solving long running conflicts. To quote the blurb - "Conflicts can involve different nations and religions, different races and classes. Some of them seem intractable: the tensions and hatred seem depressingly permanent. But there are a number of social psychologists who have been studying how prejudice and distrust between groups can be overcome." Well, well, an alternative to mass killings and destruction. Who knew? It was on at 8:30 tonight and is available on podcast.

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Lets face it, even if we have dodged a bullet (or a bomb) us Brits still love to moan about travel chaos.

 

You can I suppose easily understand their sense of frustration about having their travel plans disrupted. However, it did strike me that amid all the complaints and moaning some might have done well to pause for a moment and think about all their fellow holiday makers laying dead in the desert sand not so very far away.

 

There but for the grace of God ...

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You can I suppose easily understand their sense of frustration about having their travel plans disrupted. However, it did strike me that amid all the complaints and moaning some might have done well to pause for a moment and think about all their fellow holiday makers laying dead in the desert sand not so very far away.

 

There but for the grace of God ...

 

Indeed!

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You can I suppose easily understand their sense of frustration about having their travel plans disrupted. However, it did strike me that amid all the complaints and moaning some might have done well to pause for a moment and think about all their fellow holiday makers laying dead in the desert sand not so very far away.

 

There but for the grace of God ...

And they're complaining despite being "stuck" in a holiday resort with lovely weather all expenses paid by the government. It could be a hell of a lot worse...

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I remember flying to Seattle out of Heathrow when the Gulf War had just kicked off. There were tanks and armoured cars around the airport and rumours that there were plans to bring down a plane flying out of London with a surface to air missile. I was more than concerned when we took off and was a very happy bunny when the plane landed in Seattle in one piece. I am always happy when I get to my destination in one piece. Given what had just happened you'd think these fekkers would show a bit more class. As the old saying goes, better late here than early in the hereafter!

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I remember flying to Seattle out of Heathrow when the Gulf War had just kicked off. There were tanks and armoured cars around the airport and rumours that there were plans to bring down a plane flying out of London with a surface to air missile. I was more than concerned when we took off and was a very happy bunny when the plane landed in Seattle in one piece. I am always happy when I get to my destination in one piece. Given what had just happened you'd think these fekkers would show a bit more class. As the old saying goes, better late here than early in the hereafter!

 

I came back from Minneapolis shortly after 9/11 and while the anthrax scare was raging so security was supposedly heightened and there were National Guard everywhere in the airport. Big lines to go through security, which was thorough. Trouble was anybody who wanted to smoke was happily allowed out again to the front of the terminal and not rechecked when they came back. Great flight back, maybe 40 people on a plane capable of carrying 300. Five seats to my self and slept 7.5 hours.

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I came back from Minneapolis shortly after 9/11 and while the anthrax scare was raging so security was supposedly heightened and there were National Guard everywhere in the airport. Big lines to go through security, which was thorough. Trouble was anybody who wanted to smoke was happily allowed out again to the front of the terminal and not rechecked when they came back. Great flight back, maybe 40 people on a plane capable of carrying 300. Five seats to my self and slept 7.5 hours.

 

Gotta love that tight security! Back in the 70s I worked at The Times in Grays Inn Road. It was the height of the IRA bombing in London and we used to get 2 or three bomb scares a week. There were huge plate glass windows along the front of the building and we all used to congregate in front of them! If a bomb had of gone off we all would have been shredded! Later we found out a couple of messengers in the post room phoned in the calls and used to go round the offices stealing stuff, bless 'em.

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I see Putin has confirmed it was a bomb

 

Thank goodness Russia and France have the Balls to do something about ISIS

Our man Corbyn would probably write them a letter and invite them (ISIS) over for tea and a visit to the Houses of Parliament . Just like he did after the Brighton bombings . Cameron also needs to take a firmer stance . But then most if our MPs don't have the stomach to follow Russia and France

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Our man Corbyn would probably write them a letter and invite them (ISIS) over for tea and a visit to the Houses of Parliament./QUOTE]

 

To be fair, it was only Corbyn and the labour party that stopped Cameron from trying to bomb the **** out of Assad and help ISIS take over more of Syria not long ago.

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Interesting listening to the spectator podcast last week ( pre Paris ) . Foreign affairs expert said his first thought when he heard Isis had bombed a Russian plane was they had a death wish . He told a story which he claimed had been confirmed by reliable sources about Lebanon 25 odd years ago .

 

Around the time of terry Waite ect being held hostage a Russian diplomat was captured. The next day a package turned up a suspected ringleaders place . When opened it contained the genitals of the said leaders own son . The next day the Russian was released and Russians were off limits .

 

Russians like the Israelis won't mess about

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Interesting listening to the spectator podcast last week ( pre Paris ) . Foreign affairs expert said his first thought when he heard Isis had bombed a Russian plane was they had a death wish . He told a story which he claimed had been confirmed by reliable sources about Lebanon 25 odd years ago .

 

Around the time of terry Waite ect being held hostage a Russian diplomat was captured. The next day a package turned up a suspected ringleaders place . When opened it contained the genitals of the said leaders own son . The next day the Russian was released and Russians were off limits .

 

Russians like the Israelis won't mess about

 

I think I remember a similar story about a hostage situation where the hostage takers had a man outside the building feeding information inside. Only Spetsnaz got hold of him and sent his head to the hostage takers in a shoe box. They surrendered pretty soon after that.

 

You're right, Russia and Israel don't f**k around when it comes to getting their hands dirty. If either of them go into Syria, they're bringing an ass whooping with them.

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I think I remember a similar story about a hostage situation where the hostage takers had a man outside the building feeding information inside. Only Spetsnaz got hold of him and sent his head to the hostage takers in a shoe box. They surrendered pretty soon after that.

 

You're right, Russia and Israel don't f**k around when it comes to getting their hands dirty. If either of them go into Syria, they're bringing an ass whooping with them.

 

I read something similar about the pirates off Somalia.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/piracy/7713375/Somali-pirates-captured-and-released-by-Russian-navy-have-died.html

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