Lighthouse Posted 31 October, 2015 Share Posted 31 October, 2015 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-34687139 ISIS affiliates in Sinai claim responsibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 31 October, 2015 Share Posted 31 October, 2015 (edited) ... Edited 31 October, 2015 by buctootim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch Posted 4 November, 2015 Share Posted 4 November, 2015 Is this a game changer? Is it time to bring to an end the practice of repairing structurally damaged aeroplanes and putting them back into service? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melmacian_saint Posted 4 November, 2015 Share Posted 4 November, 2015 Is this a game changer? Is it time to bring to an end the practice of repairing structurally damaged aeroplanes and putting them back into service? Even considering Russia's poor record, it would be shocking if a plane on the verge of disintegration was given the go ahead to fly. Then again, it has happened before. How likely is it that a bomb was planted on the plane? It can't be impossible for an ISIS affiliate to infiltrate a package through someone at security. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch Posted 4 November, 2015 Share Posted 4 November, 2015 I think the fact that this plane was operated by a Russian airline is irrelevant. I don't think this incident is maintenance-related. The plane's owners would have independent engineers monitoring all the maintenance to make sure it was done properly and on-time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 4 November, 2015 Author Share Posted 4 November, 2015 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Airlines_Flight_123 A potentially similar incident, if it's not terrorism related. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 4 November, 2015 Share Posted 4 November, 2015 I think the fact that this plane was operated by a Russian airline is irrelevant. I don't think this incident is maintenance-related. The plane's owners would have independent engineers monitoring all the maintenance to make sure it was done properly and on-time. They hadnt paid their staff for two months apparently so you cant taker anything for granted. There is also previous history for accidents after botched repairs on tailstrikes, years after the event. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Airlines_Flight_611 Obviously a bomb onboard is possibility too. Its too early to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch Posted 4 November, 2015 Share Posted 4 November, 2015 There are tailstrikes and tailstrikes. This was a landing incident. The plane landed on it's tail instead of it's wheels. Too early to say? My post clearly says it's what I think. I accept it will be several years before the final report comes out. But the tail fell off this aeroplane at cruising altitude, and 4 days after the crash there is no evidence of terrorism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 4 November, 2015 Share Posted 4 November, 2015 We can speculate all day long (and hasn't there been a statement to say it came from an external force?) but until someone officially comes out and says it was a structural fault, a bomb or a missile we wont know what caused it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 4 November, 2015 Share Posted 4 November, 2015 We can speculate all day long (and hasn't there been a statement to say it came from an external force?) but until someone officially comes out and says it was a structural fault, a bomb or a missile we wont know what caused it. What rascals those IS fighters are eh? Still, they'll probably stop downing passenger jets after some good conversations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 4 November, 2015 Share Posted 4 November, 2015 (edited) What rascals those IS fighters are eh? Still, they'll probably stop downing passenger jets after some good conversations. Oh dear Hypo, you really need to get out more mate. As for IS. Where is your evidence that they brought the plane down? Here's a thought for you - wouldn't it be good if all of IS move into the same area so that they could feel more comfortable together, then we could bomb them all to hell and the problem would go away. By the way, my original point was that we would end up sitting around the table with Muslim Extremists (and I wasn't just talking of IS) in order to find a way forward at some point. You seem to think the only solution will be to kill them all. Good luck with that. Edited 4 November, 2015 by sadoldgit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 4 November, 2015 Share Posted 4 November, 2015 I can't remember whether the 321 (stretched 320) had a buffer on the tail to absorb damage. I flew the B767-300 which had a hydraulic buffer. The B737-400 had a basic buffer. Although over holding off with power on could cause a tail strike I find it difficult envisaging how an aircraft could land on it's tail without the tail breaking off, ie. stalling in. Most tail strikes I have been aware of were over-rotating on take off. The aircraft was Irish registered and certainly flown by Tui/First Choice/Thomson possibly one of the original 321s of Air UK Leisure/Leisure International which went to Air 2000 then First Choice after the Unijet takeover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 4 November, 2015 Author Share Posted 4 November, 2015 Britain suspends flights to Sharm over security concerns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch Posted 5 November, 2015 Share Posted 5 November, 2015 (edited) I can't remember whether the 321 (stretched 320) had a buffer on the tail to absorb damage. I flew the B767-300 which had a hydraulic buffer. The B737-400 had a basic buffer. Although over holding off with power on could cause a tail strike I find it difficult envisaging how an aircraft could land on it's tail without the tail breaking off, ie. stalling in. Most tail strikes I have been aware of were over-rotating on take off. The aircraft was Irish registered and certainly flown by Tui/First Choice/Thomson possibly one of the original 321s of Air UK Leisure/Leisure International which went to Air 2000 then First Choice after the Unijet takeover. It was originally with MEA from new for about 6 years (when the tail strike happened) up till early naughties. Then it went into a stage of alternating between Turkey and Saudi Arabia until 2012 when it went to Metrojet. I think it's been owned by ILFC the whole time. Noteworthy that it carried a French registration while it was at MEA, so there might be a BEA accident report about the tailstrike incident somewhere. That might throw some light on what actually happened. Interesting statements by our government. That should get a reaction from the Egyptians and Russians. Edited 5 November, 2015 by hutch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 5 November, 2015 Share Posted 5 November, 2015 Amazed to hear our guy come out and say we think it was a bomb at this stage of the investigation. I wonder what intel we have other than IS saying that they did it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 5 November, 2015 Share Posted 5 November, 2015 Amazed to hear our guy come out and say we think it was a bomb at this stage of the investigation. I wonder what intel we have other than IS saying that they did it? Probably because of what military satellites that "don't exist" actually see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 5 November, 2015 Share Posted 5 November, 2015 Amazed to hear our guy come out and say we think it was a bomb at this stage of the investigation. I wonder what intel we have other than IS saying that they did it? Or because this ''news' could detract from other bad news on the day (puts cynical hat on) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 5 November, 2015 Share Posted 5 November, 2015 Uhoh...what bad news is in the offing today then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pancake Posted 5 November, 2015 Share Posted 5 November, 2015 Or because this ''news' could detract from other bad news on the day (puts cynical hat on) Exactly what I said to Mrs Pancake yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 5 November, 2015 Share Posted 5 November, 2015 Uhoh...what bad news is in the offing today then? Take your pick! Big demonstrations in central London (not covered by the media), Jeremy Hunt being caught out by spinning the so-called pay rise for junior doctors, Home Secretary announcing more snooping, David Cameron looking even more of a **** in PMQs......... And that was just yesterday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Bognor Posted 5 November, 2015 Share Posted 5 November, 2015 Or because this ''news' could detract from other bad news on the day (puts cynical hat on) A bit like labour using the worst terrorist attack in history to put out less favourable press releases. The Tories don't have a monopoly on being complete ****s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 5 November, 2015 Author Share Posted 5 November, 2015 In a bizarre move, Russia has now banned 737s from operating in their airspace. http://avherald.com/h?article=48ee3567&opt=0&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter The fact that Aeroflot uses Airbus aircraft and Ukraine International uses 737s is nothing to do with this I'm sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 6 November, 2015 Share Posted 6 November, 2015 Some of the Brits stuck in Sharm airport are embarrassing themselves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 6 November, 2015 Share Posted 6 November, 2015 Some of the Brits stuck in Sharm airport are embarrassing themselves Brits abroad making ****s of themselves? A novel concept... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 7 November, 2015 Share Posted 7 November, 2015 Or because this ''news' could detract from other bad news on the day (puts cynical hat on) appears to be true, though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 7 November, 2015 Share Posted 7 November, 2015 (edited) Take your pick! Big demonstrations in central London (not covered by the media), Jeremy Hunt being caught out by spinning the so-called pay rise for junior doctors, Home Secretary announcing more snooping, David Cameron looking even more of a **** in PMQs......... And that was just yesterday! We said there was a bomb on the plane to cover up Prime Minister's Questions? The other stuff you talk about I knew about through hearing about it/reading about it on the news. Which is, like, the media and stuff. As cover ups go, pretty weak effort then. Edited 7 November, 2015 by CB Fry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 7 November, 2015 Share Posted 7 November, 2015 We said there was a bomb on the plane to cover up Prime Minister's Questions? The other stuff you talk about I knew about through hearing about it/reading about it on the news. Which is, like, the media and stuff. As cover ups go, pretty weak effort then. At the time, the rest of the world thought Cameron had been a bit previous - jumping to conclusions before the facts were known. As for your last sentence - well, let's face it, this government IS pretty weak. U turns left, right and centre! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 7 November, 2015 Share Posted 7 November, 2015 At the time, the rest of the world thought Cameron had been a bit previous - jumping to conclusions before the facts were known. As for your last sentence - well, let's face it, this government IS pretty weak. U turns left, right and centre! im sure he knew from the off what it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 7 November, 2015 Share Posted 7 November, 2015 im sure he knew from the off what it was. Alan Johnson ex home sec , and no friend of Cameron's said that there is no doubt that Cameron will have had rock solid inteligence before making a statement like that . To put it in the Labour " good day to bury bad news" bag is nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ART Posted 8 November, 2015 Share Posted 8 November, 2015 Yesterday I finished watching the amazing German TV East-West Spy Thriller Series "DEUTSCHLAND'83" which is currently a big hit in the States. It focus's on events on both side of the German border as a result of the Cold War sparring between the Big Powers. What came across as a very interesting event at the time and karmatic justice in the light of the recent downing of the Russian air craft at Sharm el Sheik, was the 1983 September 1st shooting down by the Soviets of a Korean Passenger Airliner, KAL007 killing all 269 innocent passengers and crew aboard. It was an event that the entire world have long forgotten. Anyone interested in watching DEUTSCHLAND'83 can do so for FREE at: http://www.couchtuner.la/watch-deutschland-83-online/ WARNING: German with English subtitles yet this didn't put of the American public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 8 November, 2015 Share Posted 8 November, 2015 At the time, the rest of the world thought Cameron had been a bit previous - jumping to conclusions before the facts were known. :lol::lol: I'm sure you will be big enough to apologise. Your agenda is boring, your digs consistent as are your faux pars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
so22saint Posted 8 November, 2015 Share Posted 8 November, 2015 Yesterday I finished watching the amazing German TV East-West Spy Thriller Series "DEUTSCHLAND'83" which is currently a big hit in the States. It focus's on events on both side of the German border as a result of the Cold War sparring between the Big Powers. What came across as a very interesting event at the time and karmatic justice in the light of the recent downing of the Russian air craft at Sharm el Sheik, was the 1983 September 1st shooting down by the Soviets of a Korean Passenger Airliner, KAL007 killing all 269 innocent passengers and crew aboard. It was an event that the entire world have long forgotten. Anyone interested in watching DEUTSCHLAND'83 can do so for FREE at: http://www.couchtuner.la/watch-deutschland-83-online/ WARNING: German with English subtitles yet this didn't put of the American public. well they also shot down a Malaysian airliner just last year (ok, it was a former Soviet state militant faction with Russian support for the forum pedants) if it's karma you're after. I will say though, all the passengers all the flights were innocent people just flying around and it's very distateful to talk about karma in that regard I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 8 November, 2015 Share Posted 8 November, 2015 Alan Johnson ex home sec , and no friend of Cameron's said that there is no doubt that Cameron will have had rock solid inteligence before making a statement like that . To put it in the Labour " good day to bury bad news" bag is nonsense. the PM probably could tell the world which group did it and more than likely, how. but it is not his gig and im sure some of that information has been shared. it is a media ding-dong at the mo on how to 'manage' it all I think BTF is just way off the mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 8 November, 2015 Share Posted 8 November, 2015 faux pars. faux pas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 9 November, 2015 Share Posted 9 November, 2015 What rascals those IS fighters are eh? Still, they'll probably stop downing passenger jets after some good conversations. For info, on BBC Radio 4 this evening on the Analysis programme they looked at the issue of whether using psychology could help in solving long running conflicts. To quote the blurb - "Conflicts can involve different nations and religions, different races and classes. Some of them seem intractable: the tensions and hatred seem depressingly permanent. But there are a number of social psychologists who have been studying how prejudice and distrust between groups can be overcome." Well, well, an alternative to mass killings and destruction. Who knew? It was on at 8:30 tonight and is available on podcast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 9 November, 2015 Share Posted 9 November, 2015 Some of the Brits stuck in Sharm airport are embarrassing themselves Lets face it, even if we have dodged a bullet (or a bomb) us Brits still love to moan about travel chaos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 10 November, 2015 Share Posted 10 November, 2015 Lets face it, even if we have dodged a bullet (or a bomb) us Brits still love to moan about travel chaos. You can I suppose easily understand their sense of frustration about having their travel plans disrupted. However, it did strike me that amid all the complaints and moaning some might have done well to pause for a moment and think about all their fellow holiday makers laying dead in the desert sand not so very far away. There but for the grace of God ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 10 November, 2015 Share Posted 10 November, 2015 You can I suppose easily understand their sense of frustration about having their travel plans disrupted. However, it did strike me that amid all the complaints and moaning some might have done well to pause for a moment and think about all their fellow holiday makers laying dead in the desert sand not so very far away. There but for the grace of God ... Indeed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 10 November, 2015 Share Posted 10 November, 2015 You can I suppose easily understand their sense of frustration about having their travel plans disrupted. However, it did strike me that amid all the complaints and moaning some might have done well to pause for a moment and think about all their fellow holiday makers laying dead in the desert sand not so very far away. There but for the grace of God ... And they're complaining despite being "stuck" in a holiday resort with lovely weather all expenses paid by the government. It could be a hell of a lot worse... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 10 November, 2015 Share Posted 10 November, 2015 I remember flying to Seattle out of Heathrow when the Gulf War had just kicked off. There were tanks and armoured cars around the airport and rumours that there were plans to bring down a plane flying out of London with a surface to air missile. I was more than concerned when we took off and was a very happy bunny when the plane landed in Seattle in one piece. I am always happy when I get to my destination in one piece. Given what had just happened you'd think these fekkers would show a bit more class. As the old saying goes, better late here than early in the hereafter! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 10 November, 2015 Share Posted 10 November, 2015 I remember flying to Seattle out of Heathrow when the Gulf War had just kicked off. There were tanks and armoured cars around the airport and rumours that there were plans to bring down a plane flying out of London with a surface to air missile. I was more than concerned when we took off and was a very happy bunny when the plane landed in Seattle in one piece. I am always happy when I get to my destination in one piece. Given what had just happened you'd think these fekkers would show a bit more class. As the old saying goes, better late here than early in the hereafter! I came back from Minneapolis shortly after 9/11 and while the anthrax scare was raging so security was supposedly heightened and there were National Guard everywhere in the airport. Big lines to go through security, which was thorough. Trouble was anybody who wanted to smoke was happily allowed out again to the front of the terminal and not rechecked when they came back. Great flight back, maybe 40 people on a plane capable of carrying 300. Five seats to my self and slept 7.5 hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 10 November, 2015 Share Posted 10 November, 2015 I came back from Minneapolis shortly after 9/11 and while the anthrax scare was raging so security was supposedly heightened and there were National Guard everywhere in the airport. Big lines to go through security, which was thorough. Trouble was anybody who wanted to smoke was happily allowed out again to the front of the terminal and not rechecked when they came back. Great flight back, maybe 40 people on a plane capable of carrying 300. Five seats to my self and slept 7.5 hours. Gotta love that tight security! Back in the 70s I worked at The Times in Grays Inn Road. It was the height of the IRA bombing in London and we used to get 2 or three bomb scares a week. There were huge plate glass windows along the front of the building and we all used to congregate in front of them! If a bomb had of gone off we all would have been shredded! Later we found out a couple of messengers in the post room phoned in the calls and used to go round the offices stealing stuff, bless 'em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking Warrior Posted 17 November, 2015 Share Posted 17 November, 2015 I see Putin has confirmed it was a bomb Thank goodness Russia and France have the Balls to do something about ISIS Our man Corbyn would probably write them a letter and invite them (ISIS) over for tea and a visit to the Houses of Parliament . Just like he did after the Brighton bombings . Cameron also needs to take a firmer stance . But then most if our MPs don't have the stomach to follow Russia and France Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 17 November, 2015 Share Posted 17 November, 2015 #prayforstpetersburg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 17 November, 2015 Share Posted 17 November, 2015 Our man Corbyn would probably write them a letter and invite them (ISIS) over for tea and a visit to the Houses of Parliament./QUOTE] To be fair, it was only Corbyn and the labour party that stopped Cameron from trying to bomb the **** out of Assad and help ISIS take over more of Syria not long ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 17 November, 2015 Share Posted 17 November, 2015 Interesting listening to the spectator podcast last week ( pre Paris ) . Foreign affairs expert said his first thought when he heard Isis had bombed a Russian plane was they had a death wish . He told a story which he claimed had been confirmed by reliable sources about Lebanon 25 odd years ago . Around the time of terry Waite ect being held hostage a Russian diplomat was captured. The next day a package turned up a suspected ringleaders place . When opened it contained the genitals of the said leaders own son . The next day the Russian was released and Russians were off limits . Russians like the Israelis won't mess about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 17 November, 2015 Author Share Posted 17 November, 2015 Interesting listening to the spectator podcast last week ( pre Paris ) . Foreign affairs expert said his first thought when he heard Isis had bombed a Russian plane was they had a death wish . He told a story which he claimed had been confirmed by reliable sources about Lebanon 25 odd years ago . Around the time of terry Waite ect being held hostage a Russian diplomat was captured. The next day a package turned up a suspected ringleaders place . When opened it contained the genitals of the said leaders own son . The next day the Russian was released and Russians were off limits . Russians like the Israelis won't mess about I think I remember a similar story about a hostage situation where the hostage takers had a man outside the building feeding information inside. Only Spetsnaz got hold of him and sent his head to the hostage takers in a shoe box. They surrendered pretty soon after that. You're right, Russia and Israel don't f**k around when it comes to getting their hands dirty. If either of them go into Syria, they're bringing an ass whooping with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 17 November, 2015 Share Posted 17 November, 2015 I think I remember a similar story about a hostage situation where the hostage takers had a man outside the building feeding information inside. Only Spetsnaz got hold of him and sent his head to the hostage takers in a shoe box. They surrendered pretty soon after that. You're right, Russia and Israel don't f**k around when it comes to getting their hands dirty. If either of them go into Syria, they're bringing an ass whooping with them. I read something similar about the pirates off Somalia. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/piracy/7713375/Somali-pirates-captured-and-released-by-Russian-navy-have-died.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 17 November, 2015 Share Posted 17 November, 2015 I doubt Russia will jail their own soldiers either for taking out the enemy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harvey Posted 17 November, 2015 Share Posted 17 November, 2015 I read something similar about the pirates off Somalia. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/piracy/7713375/Somali-pirates-captured-and-released-by-Russian-navy-have-died.html Good for them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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