david in sweden Posted 27 October, 2015 Share Posted 27 October, 2015 I'm really surprised that some people still doubt this strategy. It is a make-or-break time for these lads to build up their reputations....or just fade away. Looking at those already out on loan this season we have; Stephens, Turnbull, Gallagher, Isgrove and now McCarthy. Last season,(goalie) Will Britt had a spell out, as did Stephens, Turnbull and Sinclair, sadly he was no match for Mane, and Isgrove may have the same problem. Those lads who graduate through the ranks and make a mark in their U21 performances need serious game time at another level, and whilst we acknowledge the gap between the Championship and Prem....the difference between U21 and Prem. is enormous (although, of course one or two do make the move). Imagine my shock hearing a comment from a commentator (U21 away win at Chelsea) stating last season that Chelsea had 28 players out on loan. I'm sure they weren't all youth products, as Chelsea often buy a youngster and loan him back / out immediately, but nevertheless, quite a few must have been U21 but with Chelsea abysmal record for advancing Academy players to the first team...currently only Loftus-Cheek, I think....one wonders why they bother. Certainly we're not going to produce a.. Walcott, Bale, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Lallana, Shaw or even JWP every season, but at least we can give them a chance. Eventually, we will need replacements for Pelle, Fonte and (both) Davis' and maybe Mané (sooner than we think)...but the only way to achieve that is to give the lads a chance to improve, or continually sell off " the Crown Jewels" every summer, and search for talent elsewhere. Our own lads must be given a real chance, and a loan-out is the best opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 27 October, 2015 Share Posted 27 October, 2015 If nothing else it gives them a chance to find their level so their next contract is a chance to establish themselves rather than another chance to find they're not good enough. But generally, if you're good enough you make yourself impossible to leave out - examples like Harry Kane, who had a couple of years out on loan at lower leagues and then graduated with Europa League appearances, are few and far between nowadays. Lallana and Surman had a loan of loans but Lallana benefited from regular games at a lower level gradually increasing in standard, and Surman found his level pretty quickly also from regular first team appearances. Obviously players are more likely to come through if 1) at their parent club AND 2) getting regular games - but they have to be good enough to justify that - I'm sure Isgrove, Gallagher etc would be playing a lot more if we were in L1, but how to make them top 10 Prem players without them playing in Prem games I'm not sure. Reed seems to be the one who'd really benefit from a loan to a top half Championship side at the moment but judging by his first team games he'd spend a lot of it suspended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
positivepete Posted 27 October, 2015 Share Posted 27 October, 2015 Is a loan better than playing against or with our first team every day in training? Certainly not if they are not getting regular game time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baird of the land Posted 27 October, 2015 Share Posted 27 October, 2015 Targetted loan agreements with clubs who's approach matches ours are good. Think Stephens & Turnbull at Swindon last season. However the problem is that we've entered a period where the opportunity to break into the first team is heavily damaged/broken despite the PR that suggests the opposite. In general the abuse of the loan system by the big premier league clubs negatively affects players development. Unless we provide first team chances for these players when they do well in the youth system or on these loans they aren't going to come through. This season we've got our loans badly wrong. Gallagher's seemed good on paper but MK Dons lost patience and now he's getting little to no football. Stephens is at Middlesborough not playing, whilst we have forked out what is probably a large fee to loan Caulker to sit on our bench as 4th choice centre back. That's surely a position should have been up for considering he's had 2 highly successful loan spells in league 1, especially since he has the versatility to play in a number of roles. I wouldn't have issue with Reed getting a loan deal somewhere as long as if he does well he isn't cast in the role of perennial loanee. He did very well in his handful of premiership games last season and the refusal to use him early this season(barring extenuating circumstances) was bizarre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stpedro Posted 27 October, 2015 Share Posted 27 October, 2015 I strongly agree that players need to go out on loan, and am slightly surprised that more of our 18-21 year olds aren't playing at League 1/2 clubs as I feel it would do them good. It is difficult to see many breaking into the team or matchday squad at the moment, and it would be interesting to see if they have what it takes at a lower league club to start with. The only problem with the loan system is when they don't start - obviously there is no right for them to do so, but the whole point of them being on loan is to play matches, so Gallagher and Stephens' situations are not ideal if they are not getting game time. I've seen a number of loanees this season in League 1 or 2 benefitting, (for instance Kaikai at Shrewsbury from Crystal Palace) and it really must help clubs get a better feel if they can make it or not. even if they aren't going to make it at Saints, it should help their careers by proving they can be pro footballers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 27 October, 2015 Author Share Posted 27 October, 2015 I strongly agree that players need to go out on loan, and am slightly surprised that more of our 18-21 year olds aren't playing at League 1/2 this is the thing that surprises me. Of course there are quite a few , experienced older " has beens " and " almost famous " types in the lower leagues, but there are many young players in these teams, too and some of our lads have had the benefit of good training facilities and coaching, and would surely get a good opportunity to play football in " the real world". Naturally you can't start sending lots of teenagers halfway across the country and suddenly expect them to fit into an L1 side, but a shorter loan period (say) 1-3 months would surely be of benefit to some of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 27 October, 2015 Share Posted 27 October, 2015 this is the thing that surprises me. Of course there are quite a few , experienced older " has beens " and " almost famous " types in the lower leagues, but there are many young players in these teams, too and some of our lads have had the benefit of good training facilities and coaching, and would surely get a good opportunity to play football in " the real world". Naturally you can't start sending lots of teenagers halfway across the country and suddenly expect them to fit into an L1 side, but a shorter loan period (say) 1-3 months would surely be of benefit to some of them. Newport have just taken two Cardiff U21s on loan and they are making a significant difference at the ar5e-end of League 2 (just beat Bristol Rovers 4-1 away after only winning one other game all season), so if they want match experience... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 28 October, 2015 Author Share Posted 28 October, 2015 Newport have just taken two Cardiff U21s on loan and they are making a significant difference at the ar5e-end of League 2 (just beat Bristol Rovers 4-1 away after only winning one other game all season), so if they want match experience... good example of what can be done. Mind you... a loan deal between Cardiff and Newport only means taking a bus in the other direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 28 October, 2015 Author Share Posted 28 October, 2015 well at least a chance for Stephens to make a name for himself, he's is the start side for 'Boro's League Cup game at Old Trafford Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonb Posted 28 October, 2015 Share Posted 28 October, 2015 well at least a chance for Stephens to make a name for himself, he's is the start side for 'Boro's League Cup game at Old Trafford Playing well in midfield. Played a great thru ball for Ledbetter to win it. Put himself about and looks decent, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downthe36 Posted 28 October, 2015 Share Posted 28 October, 2015 Leadbitter should have buried that, Jack looks like he is holding his own though. Can't really have anyone worse than Fellaini to play in the box as a young centre back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 28 October, 2015 Share Posted 28 October, 2015 Leadbitter should have buried that, Jack looks like he is holding his own though. Can't really have anyone worse than Fellaini to play in the box as a young centre back. Playing mf. Subbed off with 6 et minutes left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 29 October, 2015 Share Posted 29 October, 2015 good example of what can be done. Mind you... a loan deal between Cardiff and Newport only means taking a bus in the other direction. I'd recommend the train, and don't underestimate that it's still a train to *Newport*. Though they do also run direct from Southampton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 9 November, 2015 Author Share Posted 9 November, 2015 I mentioned in the OP that Chelsea (reportedly) had 28 players out on loan during last season....... item in today's press said Patrick Bamford revealed that this season's " loan-out group" have their own net site "What's up"...it's frequented by all....33 of them. If they are all so promising, then surely Jose Mourinho ought to have tried one or two of them in Chelsea's present crisis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 9 November, 2015 Share Posted 9 November, 2015 I mentioned in the OP that Chelsea (reportedly) had 28 players out on loan during last season....... item in today's press said Patrick Bamford revealed that this season's " loan-out group" have their own net site "What's up"...it's frequented by all....33 of them. If they are all so promising, then surely Jose Mourinho ought to have tried one or two of them in Chelsea's present crisis? Chelsea do this to control the market...it's not new, Everton amongst others were doing it back in the 70s. You might not want the players in question but as you seem to have unlimited funds you can certainly make sure that they don't play against you for a time at worst and at best you make a profit on them. Now Utd desperately need a winger, they wanted Pedro I think, fortunately for them Chelsea bought him first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 20 November, 2015 Author Share Posted 20 November, 2015 Latest reports suggest Sam Gallagher and Jack Stephens are on their way back with the club wanting them to go somewhere where they are wanted. A strange situation for the two of them. Gallagher clearly should be another option for MK Dons who haven't set the Championship alight this season and despite having (so-called) more experienced players on the books they aren't finding the back of the net and consequently are too close to the bottom of the league. A more daring manager might give Sam a run of games before condemning him to a permanent bench place, but then again it's (his) job on the line. Jack Stephens is unfortunate to be in a club that is exceeding all expectations in the Championship, whilst the manager is happy with his tried and tested squad. Interesting that Swindon were overjoyed to have him - and Turnbull- last season .....maybe they are only suited to L1 level - who knows. One good loan that seems to be working is Jason Mc Carthy's spell with Wycombe who seem to love him, and he has several months extension. Loans, like big transfers, can be hit or miss affairs - but it takes the right player in the right club at the right time to make it stick. Think of all the clubs that had Jack Cork and Ryan Bertrand on loan from Chelsea, but weren't confident enough to sign them permanently. As for Sam and Jack...hopefully they will have another chance, and although it sounds like a big drop....I think Saints ought to find one or two lads who could help Eastleigh up into League 2 for next season, (but maybe not these two). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSAINT Posted 20 November, 2015 Share Posted 20 November, 2015 Interesting that Swindon were overjoyed to have him - and Turnbull- last season .....maybe they are only suited to L1 level - who knows. Swindon would probably take him back in a heartbeat at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 20 November, 2015 Share Posted 20 November, 2015 I think they just pitched Gallagher above his level and Stephens to a team probably just a bit too good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 21 November, 2015 Author Share Posted 21 November, 2015 I think they just pitched Gallagher above his level and Stephens to a team probably just a bit too good. my thoughts exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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