The return of Grammar schools???

[Johnny Bognor]

Discuss

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-34535778

[Whitey Grandad]

Good idea. When is this going to happen?

[Patrick Bateman]

Great idea. I mean, I went to a really, very very sh*t comp and I have "done alright", but who's to say that had I had the opportunity to go to a grammar school, I couldn't have done even better? I suspect that story is echoed throughout the country.

[ecuk268]

I went to a Grammar School in the 60's but I think that the danger today is that they'll become full of the children of pushy middle-class parents who can afford private tutors to coach their kids for the 11+.

[Johnny Bognor]

I went to a Grammar School in the 60's but I think that the danger today is that they'll become full of the children of pushy middle-class parents who can afford private tutors to coach their kids for the 11+.

 

Is that any different to middle class parents moving into a catchment area with a better school, thus squeezing out the less well off?

[View From The Top]

Great idea. I mean, I went to a really, very very sh*t comp and I have "done alright", but who's to say that had I had the opportunity to go to a grammar school, I couldn't have done even better? I suspect that story is echoed throughout the country.

 

If you come from a wealthy middle class or professional Hindi background you may have got in, as experience has taught me that those background spend £1000s and £1000s on extra tuition etc for kids as young as 2 & 3 in preparation for entrance exams.

 

There is a very good grammar not too far from me, admission by selection, you'll not see a car under £40k and older than 2 years picking the kids up and none will come from a working class background. Not one came from a state school. Not one. Friend of mine is Head of Science there. He's the token working class oik and his own kids go elsewhere.

 

If anyone believes that grammar schools v2015 would be similar to grammar schools v1965 they are very mistaken.

[View From The Top]

Is that any different to middle class parents moving into a catchment area with a better school, thus squeezing out the less well off?

 

That's called, in the trade, a "professional bubble". Happens mainly in the bigger cities although we have a similar one where I live. It's the only school in the county with no social housing in the catchment.

[Clapham Saint]

One of the best state schools ion our area is massively oversubscribed (about 1,200 applications for around 100 places I think).

 

Being both an excellent school and free I would obviously like my daughter to be able to attend when she is old enough, however from talking about the admissions process with other parents it is apparent that pretty much nobody gets offered a place who hasn't been specifically coached for the entrance exam.

 

To make matters worse the tutors who have good success rates in getting kids into the school are now so in demand that they themselves are able to be selective about the children that they are prepared to coach in order to protect their high success rates.

 

Parents are now paying for extra tuition in order to get their child to a standard where a second tutor is prepared to take them on, so that they can pay for even more tuition, in order to get themselves into the school.

 

This is crazy.

[Mr Biscuits]

I fail to see why people get on a downer about a place offering good standards of education.

[Clapham Saint]

I fail to see why people get on a downer about a place offering good standards of education.

 

It isn't about the standard of the education, it is about the unfair access to that high education.

 

The real difficulty is in evening up the accessibility without dragging the standards down to the lowest common denominator.

[buctootim]

I went to KES when it was a Grammar school, just before it turned private. It was a good education, if pretty old fashioned with lots of rote learning.

 

I'm not sure though how much of the improved standard was due to the fact of being selective and how much was to do with the increased funding they got, some 30% more than secondary moderns. I understand the argument against selectivity, that it consigns 90% of pupils at an early age to the idea that they aren't good enough based on one exam on one day. My son's comprehensive school streams based on ability so it isn't that different. Maybe if they were given the same resources as the grammars used to get they would achieve the same results. The biggest problem is oversizing classes. 24 to a class instead of 32 would transform things.

[buctootim]

If you come from a wealthy middle class or professional Hindi background you may have got in, as experience has taught me that those background spend £1000s and £1000s on extra tuition etc for kids as young as 2 & 3 in preparation for entrance exams.

 

There is a very good grammar not too far from me, admission by selection, you'll not see a car under £40k and older than 2 years picking the kids up and none will come from a working class background. Not one came from a state school. Not one. Friend of mine is Head of Science there. He's the token working class oik and his own kids go elsewhere.

 

If anyone believes that grammar schools v2015 would be similar to grammar schools v1965 they are very mistaken.

 

A few still try. Manchester Grammar school has gradually built up an endowment that lets them offer the high standards whilst prioritising kids from poor backgrounds. Its an exception though.

[Wade Garrett]

Selective schools shouldn't be paid for by the State.

[Whitey Grandad]

Selective schools shouldn't be paid for by the State.

 

Why not? If such selection means that the children receive the appropriate education targeted to their needs then that must surely be a good thing. Or should everybody be taught at the lowest common level?

[Johnny Bognor]

An interesting insight... Thatcher closed more grammar schools than anyone else and comprehensive schools were first opened under conservative governments.

Yet those to the left seem to be against grammar schools, whilst those on the right, support them.

 

Anyway, carry on...

[Chalkboy]

I got into a grammar school in the late seventies, to my relief, as the local comps were awful. My bog-standard, inner-city junior school had dedicated lessons geared towards passing the 11+ in the weeks leading up to it. There was no private tuition, (ha, what a joke!) in fact I doubt any of us at our school had even heard of such a thing.

Thanks to the dedicated lessons, every kid was given the same opportunity as each other. Of course some couldn't be arsed to learn, and others worked hard at it.

 

The grammar school itself was populated by a very diverse bunch of kids from all sorts of different backgrounds. It wasn't full of snooty middle class kids with loads of money. I sometimes think that's an image created by those who've never been to a grammar school. Money played no factor in me passing the test, my folks earned a very mediocre living. All my close friends passed the test, and many of those were from very poor backgrounds.

 

All schools should have coached the kids towards passing the 11+, don't know if mine was unique, if any didn't, then they weren't doing their job properly.

[Window Cleaner]

Wasn't just the tuition standards that made Grammar schools what they were in the 60s and 70s though. It was also about the tradition and discipline. Not at all sure that some of those disciplinary methods would be allowed now, not to mention the "tradition"..

[Whitey Grandad]

Wasn't just the tuition standards that made Grammar schools what they were in the 60s and 70s though. It was also about the tradition and discipline. Not at all sure that some of those disciplinary methods would be allowed now, not to mention the "tradition"..

 

True. That and teaching a knowledge of the basics and how to think for yourself.

[Lord Duckhunter]

I've got 4 children 2 of which went to the local Grammar schools & 2 didn't, and there is no comparison between the education they received.

 

I can only comment on the Grammars mine went to ( one boy, one girl) , but I don't recognise this picture of them being some sort of middle class enclave. Yes there are kids there that were tutored and some that went to private schools before doing the entrance exam, but the exams are quite sophisticated in trying to measure intelligence rather than knowledge ( particularly the boys one) nowadays. My 2 certainly had no tutoring or special education prior to the exam. There are immigrant kids, working class kids as well as wealthy ones from Sandbanks & Lilliput. Had the local comps been better I'd have sent them there, as I'd rather they had a mixed education.

 

Of course I'm going to be in favour of Grammar schools having seen ours close up. Once you allow " choice" you are admitting failure of the comprehensive system. People gerrymander the non grammar selection anyway. My mate attended church for months on end to get his into the catholic school, with the priest even joking with the congregation " its that time of year again " as he gazed out at the packed church. By allowing parental choice governments of both colours are saying some schools are better for your kids than others . To have selection based on religion but not intelligence seems weird, and don't get me started on " free" schools . Poole's grammar schools are certainly moire diverse , more socially mixed than the Catholic one.

 

British eduction had a problem with the secondary moderns , not the grammar schools. What sort of equality is it when you drag down the best, rather than pull up the worst. I'm lucky it that we still have this " old fashioned " choice ( and it is a choice ) and think that every child should have this opportunity if the parents feel that this is best for them .

[norwaysaint]

I don't necessarily have any problem with it, although I have exactly zero knowledge of the system. There wasn't anything like that where I grew up and there certainly isn't here.

 

I think it can be a good idea to cater towards those who would be more suited to practical work and those more suited to academic subjects. Naturally the basic, core subjects would need to be covered equally at both. One thing there seems to be a lot of talk about though, is grammar schools being better and also given some sort of priority. I don't see any reason for that. In fact the equipment needed for more practical subjects would probably necessitate the non-grammar schools getting the lion's share of resources available.

 

I am aware that this would end up with some students feeling they were not suited to the school where they ended up and eventually being let down by the system, but aren't there quite a few being let down by the system now as well?

 

As I say I have no experience of grammar schools and if it just means "good schools and bad schools" then it's a terrible idea and sadly, that's how quite a few are making it sound.

 

I work at a vocational school over here and we have state of the art equipment and are one of the most over-subscribed schools with the best reputation in the region. I teach English, but with a slightly different curriculum to those who go to an entirely academic school. I have to incorporate their profession into the work. It's good that there are places where those who are not suited to theoretical subjects can excel.

[bridge too far]

If you come from a wealthy middle class or professional Hindi background you may have got in, as experience has taught me that those background spend £1000s and £1000s on extra tuition etc for kids as young as 2 & 3 in preparation for entrance exams.

 

There is a very good grammar not too far from me, admission by selection, you'll not see a car under £40k and older than 2 years picking the kids up and none will come from a working class background. Not one came from a state school. Not one. Friend of mine is Head of Science there. He's the token working class oik and his own kids go elsewhere.

 

If anyone believes that grammar schools v2015 would be similar to grammar schools v1965 they are very mistaken.

 

And this is the nub. I went to a grammar school in the 60s and I wasn't the only working class girl there, far from it.

 

We have selection here in Buckinghamshire and it's a sad fact that the 'successful' children predominantly come from private schools or have had extensive tutoring. A couple of years ago, the Council tried to make the 11+ tutor-proof but it hasn't worked. The stats that have been trotted out today are recognisable here (number of children entitled to free school meals v children from private schools / tutoring of the same ability). The grammar schools are academies so effectively they're able to pick and choose at whim. The local boys' grammar school, particularly, has delusions of grandeur although, interestingly, it didn't perform as well as the top comprehensive schools in neighbouring counties.

 

Generally, there is a 'pass mark' of 121 (I think, although it may have changed). However, getting 121 doesn't mean your child automatically gets in to a grammar school. Often the school will choose children from out of county middle class areas / private schools rather than local children with the same result!

[View From The Top]

Thinking out loud, so to speak, perhaps the grammar school debate is partly driven by our own experiences of putting our own kids through school and the success of failure of such kids?

[suewhistle]

As I say I have no experience of grammar schools and if it just means "good schools and bad schools" then it's a terrible idea and sadly, that's how quite a few are making it sound.

 

Indeed, that's the problem, and the old distinction between Grammar and Secondary Modern (and perhaps now with Comprehensives) is that the latter were looked down on and seen as evidence of failure. Still very much a class thing, I think. You make some good points about vocational education, which in the UK, to use a teachers' phrase "could do better".

 

Personally I went to a Grammar school in the mid-60s/early 70s, and although it wasn't a bad school some of the teaching left a lot to be desired. To be frank the 'tuition' was often poor and results more due to native intelligence of the pupils than the instruction. Whenever this subject comes up I always consider a lot of rubbish is written about grammar schools through very misted perspectives.

[Mr Biscuits]

Hi, I went to a private school and I drive a truck for a living.

[aintforever]

I think I would only be in favour of them if they were targeted towards deprived areas or kids with potential from hard up families who could never afford private education.

[badgerx16]

My youngest, ( now 22 ), went to Lancaster Grammar. His junior school worked with those pupils intending to try for the Grammars, ( both the boy's and girl's schools ), to prepare them for the entrance tests. We didn't pay anything additional for preparation, and we are convinced that he got a much better education, both socially and academically, at LRGS as compared to the local High School.

Our regret is that we didn't push our other 2 children to do the same, although both did go to University.

[aintforever]

On the subject of schools, how important do you guys think it is to go to a decent school?

 

The school I went to was pretty sh!tty but I ended up going to uni and have a half decent job - but looking at the quality of some schools maybe I was held back a bit. I have a young daughter and the local Comprehensive (Hamble) looks rubbish (rated 3) whereas the one down the road, Wildern, is rated as outstanding but it's not in our catchment.

 

Would it be worth moving house or paying for private or is it more down to the individual?

[buctootim]

On the subject of schools, how important do you guys think it is to go to a decent school?

 

The school I went to was pretty sh!tty but I ended up going to uni and have a half decent job - but looking at the quality of some schools maybe I was held back a bit. I have a young daughter and the local Comprehensive (Hamble) looks rubbish (rated 3) whereas the one down the road, Wildern, is rated as outstanding but it's not in our catchment.

 

Would it be worth moving house or paying for private or is it more down to the individual?

 

Don't underestimate the importance of a kids sense of their place in the pecking order - its as important as quality of education and intelligence imo. If their classmates expectations of life are to be unemployed or minimum wage workers then bright kids will tend to see 'doing well' as being some kind of skilled worker like an electrician or nurse and see being a doctor or engineer as beyond them. If their classmates are expecting to go to Oxbridge then they are more likely too. obviously an outstandingly bright and driven kid can do well anywhere, but for most where you get educated and who its with really counts.

 

Its not worth paying for private education if in order to do it you're not able to afford the lifestyle your childs classmates will likely have, that will just make them feel like the bottom the pile. Buy a house in a better catchment area, you'll get the extra outlay back when you eventually sell.

Edited 15 October, 2015 by buctootim

[View From The Top]

On the subject of schools, how important do you guys think it is to go to a decent school?

 

The school I went to was pretty sh!tty but I ended up going to uni and have a half decent job - but looking at the quality of some schools maybe I was held back a bit. I have a young daughter and the local Comprehensive (Hamble) looks rubbish (rated 3) whereas the one down the road, Wildern, is rated as outstanding but it's not in our catchment.

 

Would it be worth moving house or paying for private or is it more down to the individual?

 

Good question.

 

I'm a teacher as is my wife. I teach in FE and she's a SENCO in a really tough secondary.

 

We moved from B'ham to Stafford because the schools are so much better (brought the house based on catchment) and we've recently moved our 2 girls to a newly opened academy because we weren't happy with the standard of some of the teaching or the SMT where they were.

 

My son goes to the local secondary academy and he'll leave (as will my girls) with a full house of A* at GCSE and As at A level but that's because they are able plus mum and dad have ensured they have an understanding of the importance of learning and as a family we spend lots of time doing enjoyable educational stuff.

 

My sister lives down at Hungerford Bottom and she fought tooth and nail to get her eldest into Wildern, which she did, but failed with her youngest. Instead of him going to Hamble sh'e paid to go private.

 

My 1st teaching job was in a really, really tough south brum council estate school. One of the governors, very middle class and from a leafy street off the estate, sent her twin girls there. They both got 12 A* but went to the best school in the city for their A levels. If they kid can do it and wants to do it, they will.

[bridge too far]

Another point to be made is this. Some parents fork out a small fortune for tutoring. Their children are being force fed practice papers.

 

So, if the child gets through, it may be that they've just managed to pass (based on the tutoring) but they don't really have the ability to learn in a pressurised academic environment. So they struggle and probably feel like failures anyway.

 

And if they still don't get through, in spite of the £££ being spent on tutors, they'll probably feel guilty about wasting their parents' money.

 

Poor kids

[Winnersaint]

During my own education I experienced both sides of the coin. I can remember all the 11+ coaching and practice we did at when I was in North Baddesley Primary School, a couple of years before prior to what is now Year 6, and then in 1968 the junior school was born and that slipped off the radar, to this day I cannot recall ever sitting an actual 11+ exam and I believe that we were the victims if that is the correct word to use of HCC's move towards the comprehensive ideal in the county. All of us year bar one ended up going to Toynbee instead. The one, a girl somehow got into Mountbatten which opened in autumn 69. My folks were not wild about Toynbee, with its split site then either side of Leigh Road, but I liked it and my mates were there and we were mostly in the A stream so we got a good education. Aged thirteen, my family moved to the Fordingbridge area. Being close to Wiltshire bright kids were creamed off by Bishop Wordsworth's and South Wilts, but already in secondary school I was given no other option but Burgate, essentially a less comprehensive school than the one I left in Eastleigh. It was shyte. I remember being only one of four kids who did any O levels, but the ones I did get got me to guess where for the sixth form? At BWS I found that I really didn't fit in there any better than I did at Burgate and looking back I think that had I gone to an actual comp as they exist now I would have done considerably better. For me a secondary modern was not suitable and having been at one for three of the five previous years it ill prepared me for a Grammar School Sixth Form, where I felt attitudes to be pompous, superior and extremely judgmental towards those who hadn't been in the system since 11

[Lord Duckhunter]

Another point to be made is this. Some parents fork out a small fortune for tutoring. Their children are being force fed practice papers.

 

So, if the child gets through, it may be that they've just managed to pass (based on the tutoring) but they don't really have the ability to learn in a pressurised academic environment. So they struggle and probably feel like failures anyway.

 

And if they still don't get through, in spite of the £££ being spent on tutors, they'll probably feel guilty about wasting their parents' money.

 

Poor kids

 

Good point .

 

A friend of mine spent well over £1,000 on tutoring and his lad never got in . We spent the best part of £0 and 2 of ours got in .

 

In the initial open day at the boys Grammar , before the kids even took the test , the head was very clear on this . He said if any children needed tutoring to get in then there was a high chance that it wasn't for them and what you describe would happen . The exam includes non verbal reasoning which I believe measures iq and is hard to tutor . The girls school really didn't seem to care ( and didn't include non verbal reasoning ) but the boys headmaster really hammered home how unhappy it could make some children .

 

Clearly this is not going to stop people tutoring , mainly because the facilities , reputation and standards in the school are so high that getting them in is the be all and end all of everything . It doesn't help that the other option we had is a very poor school . My lad is at the bottom of the year , but they also concentrate on basic social skills and appearance . They also bring kids out of their shells and install confidence in them . This may sound bad and upset a few , but the main benefit for us has been the lack of toerags . They've kept him out of trouble and turned him into a decent kid ( with his mums help as well) and that's why I have no regrets , even if his exam results end up being no better than they would have been at the comp.

Edited 15 October, 2015 by Lord Duckhunter

[Special K]

Don't underestimate the importance of a kids sense of their place in the pecking order - its as important as quality of education and intelligence imo. If their classmates expectations of life are to be unemployed or minimum wage workers then bright kids will tend to see 'doing well' as being some kind of skilled worker like an electrician or nurse and see being a doctor or engineer as beyond them. If their classmates are expecting to go to Oxbridge then they are more likely too. obviously an outstandingly bright and driven kid can do well anywhere, but for most where you get educated and who its with really counts.

 

Its not worth paying for private education if in order to do it you're not able to afford the lifestyle your childs classmates will likely have, that will just make them feel like the bottom the pile. Buy a house in a better catchment area, you'll get the extra outlay back when you eventually sell.

 

Why do you think that it is your place to judge anyone's expectations in life?

 

I won't be very popular for suggesting this, but I don't think we need to educate everyone to a level where their expectations exceed their abilities. It is so typically middle class to suggest that minimum wage work, low skill work and hard labour work are below what every child should expect of themselves, without appreciating how vital these jobs are; refuse collectors, care assistants, nursery assistants, orderlies, etc are vital to the running of country and should be valued more than they are. Now, the cry will be "of course we appreciate these jobs and the people that do them", well yeah, maybe from the warmth of an air conditioned office when it's pointed out, but ultimately this wouldn't be what we want for our kids, would it. By so doing this I think it is reinforcing the notion that these jobs are beneath "us". The problem lies with the lack of value placed on these (and so many more) vital jobs.

[View From The Top]

Why do you think that it is your place to judge anyone's expectations in life?

 

I won't be very popular for suggesting this, but I don't think we need to educate everyone to a level where their expectations exceed their abilities. It is so typically middle class to suggest that minimum wage work, low skill work and hard labour work are below what every child should expect of themselves, without appreciating how vital these jobs are; refuse collectors, care assistants, nursery assistants, orderlies, etc are vital to the running of country and should be valued more than they are. Now, the cry will be "of course we appreciate these jobs and the people that do them", well yeah, maybe from the warmth of an air conditioned office when it's pointed out, but ultimately this wouldn't be what we want for our kids, would it. By so doing this I think it is reinforcing the notion that these jobs are beneath "us". The problem lies with the lack of value placed on these (and so many more) vital jobs.

 

You need to include the government (of all hues) in that.

 

All students entering FE have to do English and maths up to GCSE and we are expected to get them through it in a year. There seems to be a reluctance to accept that not all kids are capable of passing GCSE maths and English at a grade above a C and their failure to master a subject does mean that they have failed in life but it's label applied to them and the careers that they go into, hospitality, care, etc are undervalued and quite frankly, looked down upon.

[norwaysaint]

Why is there an idea that it takes a lower quality school to educate those who are less academic? Why is it assumed that grammar schools are the good schools and other schools will be worse? Yes, there will be those who will go on to earn minimum wage from non-grammar schools, but grammar schools will also churn out their fair share of useless unemployable people who want to do media studies and History of Art. There are a lot of resources needed to educate people who will take trade jobs like plumbing, carpentry, building etc. These are also not necessarily low paid jobs as is regularly referred to here. Many of my students will earn more than I do within a couple of years.

 

As I said earlier, I teach at a school where practical work is the main priority and we demand a huge amount of resources compared to the more academic schools and our pupils go on to earn more money in many cases. I think a grammar school system is fine, but the non-grammar schools will need a lot of investment and focus so that they train people for real employment, probably more than the grammar schools.

[View From The Top]

Why is there an idea that it takes a lower quality school to educate those who are less academic? Why is it assumed that grammar schools are the good schools and other schools will be worse? Yes, there will be those who will go on to earn minimum wage from non-grammar schools, but grammar schools will also churn out their fair share of useless unemployable people who want to do media studies and History of Art. There are a lot of resources needed to educate people who will take trade jobs like plumbing, carpentry, building etc. These are also not necessarily low paid jobs as is regularly referred to here. Many of my students will earn more than I do within a couple of years.

 

As I said earlier, I teach at a school where practical work is the main priority and we demand a huge amount of resources compared to the more academic schools and our pupils go on to earn more money in many cases. I think a grammar school system is fine, but the non-grammar schools will need a lot of investment and focus so that they train people for real employment, probably more than the grammar schools.

 

The UK government will not go down the grammar school/technical school route, which is a pity in many respects as I like the academic/non-academic model. In fact, if they go down the grammar school route it is an acceptance that their own flagship education policy is a failure. They will persist with the utterly stupid idea of free schools.

[Whitey Grandad]

Why do you think that it is your place to judge anyone's expectations in life?

 

I won't be very popular for suggesting this, but I don't think we need to educate everyone to a level where their expectations exceed their abilities. It is so typically middle class to suggest that minimum wage work, low skill work and hard labour work are below what every child should expect of themselves, without appreciating how vital these jobs are; refuse collectors, care assistants, nursery assistants, orderlies, etc are vital to the running of country and should be valued more than they are. Now, the cry will be "of course we appreciate these jobs and the people that do them", well yeah, maybe from the warmth of an air conditioned office when it's pointed out, but ultimately this wouldn't be what we want for our kids, would it. By so doing this I think it is reinforcing the notion that these jobs are beneath "us". The problem lies with the lack of value placed on these (and so many more) vital jobs.

 

You might want to check your temperature settings

[buctootim]

Why do you think that it is your place to judge anyone's expectations in life?

 

I won't be very popular for suggesting this, but I don't think we need to educate everyone to a level where their expectations exceed their abilities. It is so typically middle class to suggest that minimum wage work, low skill work and hard labour work are below what every child should expect of themselves, without appreciating how vital these jobs are; refuse collectors, care assistants, nursery assistants, orderlies, etc are vital to the running of country and should be valued more than they are. Now, the cry will be "of course we appreciate these jobs and the people that do them", well yeah, maybe from the warmth of an air conditioned office when it's pointed out, but ultimately this wouldn't be what we want for our kids, would it. By so doing this I think it is reinforcing the notion that these jobs are beneath "us". The problem lies with the lack of value placed on these (and so many more) vital jobs.

 

Very, very few people picking animal guts up from the floor or washing glasses at 3am for £6ph really had that down as first career choice. People do minimum wage jobs for many reasons but lets not pretend they chose that life and spurned jobs paying twice as much. They do it because of lack of alternatives - whether family circumstances, education, redundancy or something else.

 

I've done many manual and low paid jobs (no minimum wage then), years at TAV agency working at Meatpack, chicken factories, labouring, Mr Kipling apple pie line then endless student jobs in bars and waiting. Do I look down on people who do them, no, Ive been there, they have my full respect for sticking it and getting up and working everyday. Did experience of doing them spur me to find a way out and sort my life out, absolutely. Would I want my kids to spend their lives scraping a living? of course not. Do I think the minimum wage should be far higher so everyone who works has a decent standard of living? Yes.

Edited 16 October, 2015 by buctootim

[trousers]

I've just had a chat with my nan about this and she says she has no desire to go back to school.

[Clapham Saint]

I've just had a chat with my nan about this and she says she has no desire to go back to school.

 

This took me a couple of moments (to my shame), but did make be chuckle

[sotonjoe]

A few still try. Manchester Grammar school has gradually built up an endowment that lets them offer the high standards whilst prioritising kids from poor backgrounds. Its an exception though.

 

Manchester Grammar School isn't a grammar school. It's an independent school.