EU referendum

[Jonnyboy]

I met one in Hamble. "I'm not a racist. I just don't like foreigners". I kid you not.

 

Id respect them a lot more if they just admitted it.

[shurlock]

Whatever happens there are going to be a lot of disappointed people in Burnley. Like the old chap who said that we joined Europe to make things better. He obviously doesn't realise that they are, things could have been a lot worse. Britain has thrived under EU membership. That'll soon stop. There's also the lady who says 'give it a go'. Doesn't she realise that if she doesn't like it she can't take it back? I also am struggling to see where we are 'ruled by Europe'. I never come across of it. It's amazing what people will believe.

 

This is pretty revealing -from 14m00

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b07kct7l/newsnight-life-after-brexit-a-newsnight-special

 

Didn't Cameron and co. realise that this was going to turn into the mother of protest votes, exploited by the mother of con artists in Boris and co.

Edited 26 June, 2016 by shurlock

[Lord Duckhunter]

Hilary Benn gets exactly what he deserved tonight. His dad was a great democratic and it's great that Tony's old buddy has consigned the turncoat to the scrap heap . The week gets better and better

[Whitey Grandad]

This is pretty revealing -from 14m00

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b07kct7l/newsnight-life-after-brexit-a-newsnight-special

 

Didn't Cameron and co. realise that this was going to turn into the mother of protest votes, exploited by the mother of con artists in Boris and co.

 

What was that with the woman who wanted to leave so that we could control our own currency?

[shurlock]

What was that with the woman who wanted to leave so that we could control our own currency?

 

I know mindboggling.

[Wade Garrett]

We've got our democracy back, haven't we pal.

 

I'm not your pal.

[Wade Garrett]

F*cking grizzling ***ts.

 

You lost, get over it.

[Jonnyboy]

Hilary Benn gets exactly what he deserved tonight. His dad was a great democratic and it's great that Tony's old buddy has consigned the turncoat to the scrap heap . The week gets better and better

 

A couple of years back you described his Dad as a dangerous socialist hell bent on ruining the country.

[shurlock]

A couple of years back you described his Dad as a dangerous socialist hell bent on ruining the country.

 

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Everybody lost.

 

Of course - as they celebrate their 'great protest' vote half the British people may not have come to realise this truth just yet, however we all lost last Thursday. How depressingly ironic it is that a once great nation that defended itself against foreign aggression so successfully throughout its long history should in the end defeat itself. So farewell then the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and hallo little England.

 

It turns out that self-inflicted wounds cut the deepest.

[whelk]

I'm not your pal.

 

He gets that a lot. However I am loving Shurlock and his posts on this thread.

[CB Fry]

Hilary Benn gets exactly what he deserved tonight. His dad was a great democratic and it's great that Tony's old buddy has consigned the turncoat to the scrap heap . The week gets better and better

The masterstroke that will ultimately see Dennis Skinner in the Foreign Office.

[Batman]

half of the shadow cabinet set to resign this morning.

 

it's over for jezza;

[badgerx16]

Did you watch Newsnight on Friday evening, the segment from Burnley (plenty of the locations are recognisable from trips to turfmoor)? I have nothing against the interviewees - they have legitimate grounds for anger; but the overriding impression you're left with is whether referenda are a good idea.

 

45m40s

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b07gyxdf/newsnight-24062016

 

"We've had enough of the Tory scenario. If remain win, there goes our NHS". Perhaps people really are too stupid to be allowed to vote.

Edited 26 June, 2016 by badgerx16

[Batman]

"If remain win, there goes our NHS". Perhaps people really are too stupid to be allowed to vote.

 

just as saying, if we leave, there will be an immediate emergency budget where £30bn will have to be saved.

perhaps people really are too stupid to be allowed to vote

[Wade Garrett]

He gets that a lot. However I am loving Shurlock and his posts on this thread.

 

He does have a skilful way of drawing bile, fair play to him.

[badgerx16]

just as saying, if we leave, there will be an immediate emergency budget where £30bn will have to be saved.

perhaps people really are too stupid to be allowed to vote

See, we can agree on some things.

[Batman]

See, we can agree on some things.

 

have you checked your bank to see if you are now £4,300 lighter today?

[whelk]

have you checked your bank to see if you are now £4,300 lighter today?

 

You really are expecting things quickly don't you. Are you frantically checking Twitter waiting to see announcement of this budget?

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

just as saying, if we leave, there will be an immediate emergency budget where £30bn will have to be saved.

 

If you seek to score a few cheap debating points by focussing on the non emerge of Osborn's so-called 'Emergency Budget' then fair enough that was bull. Look a little more deeply into the matter however and the (soon to be former) Chancellor of the Exchequer was probably right because lower growth will surely have a impact on the government's financial situation and therefore welfare spending.

 

The poor and elderly sections of society who voted so heavily for Bretix will ironically be the hardest hit by that decision.

[CB Fry]

have you checked your bank to see if you are now £4,300 lighter today?

The only thing I've checked is the £350m claim and any suggestion that immigration is going to go down being comprehensively disowned within less than 24 hours of the result being declared.

 

The brazenness is almost admirable - you can almost hear them laughing at the poor sods in Hartlepool and Boston and Basildon who swallowed it all. The elites have absolutely smashed this.

 

The only real shame is they didn't promise to build a monorail as well.

[hutch]

In the meantime, outside in the real world, it's interesting that Merkel has taken the opposite stance from Junker. I think that significantly increases the odds of another vote, but with a different reform package attached.

[Johnny Bognor]

Some of the lefties on here need to take a long hard look at themselves. Pouring scorn on the less well educated is quite frankly disgusting. I thought you were all about looking out for the less well off and less fortunate?

 

Instead of standing up for them or at least being sympathetic to the fact that they are less fortunate than you, you belittle them. You're not socialists with your intellectual prejudice, you're just inverted tories with a different type of snobbery. I feel sorry for the working class with you ****s looking out for them.

[Nolan]

What's that supposed to mean?

The interest on our national debt is lower therefore the costs of interest on the national debt is at its lowest ever point.

 

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[shurlock]

The interest on our national debt is lower therefore the costs of interest on the national debt is at its lowest ever point.

 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

 

I know. And that what happens when the world starts s**tting itself and anticipating further problems. There's a flight to safety and safe assets -gold, high quality government bonds, currencies like the yen. Some are also expecting that the Bank of England will cut rates to stabilise the economy (pushing bond prices up), so traders may be trying to profit on that.

 

None of this is a grounds for blackslapping and self-congratulation.

[Batman]

Javid just said there will no 'punishment' budget. There was just a robust campaign and 'things get said'

he also said about house prices dropping by 10% and 500k job losses - is that emotions ran high during the campaign and the UK will work just fine from now on

there will be no bomb under the economy and business will work

[whelk]

Javid on Andrew Marr is pathetic. Epitomises why so many disillusioned and don't vote for these fckrs. Can't answer basic questions but 'has been talking to people since 7am Friday'

[Batman]

Javid on Andrew Marr is pathetic. Epitomises why so many disillusioned and don't vote for these fckrs. Can't answer basic questions but 'has been talking to people since 7am Friday'

 

in full-on reverse

[whelk]

Can imagine 'The Thick of It' scenes with TUcker forcing some poor sap to get slaughtered. Javid you're on. Nice of Gove and Johnson to go to ground though.

[Chalkboy]

Some of the lefties on here need to take a long hard look at themselves. Pouring scorn on the less well educated is quite frankly disgusting. I thought you were all about looking out for the less well off and less fortunate?

 

Instead of standing up for them or at least being sympathetic to the fact that they are less fortunate than you, you belittle them. You're not socialists with your intellectual prejudice, you're just inverted tories with a different type of snobbery. I feel sorry for the working class with you ****s looking out for them.

 

I've read some shocking stuff around the net from so-called "progressives". Some of it wouldn't be out of place in a National Socialist manifesto.

[LGTL]

What a mess.

[Whitey Grandad]

F*cking grizzling ***ts.

 

You lost, get over it.

 

That's not how democracy works. In Britain it is a representative democracy where we elect delegates to take decisions on our behalf. Subsequently everybody's views are considered and there is a balanced and representative outcome. True democracy would mean that we held a referendum every few years. At what point do the 'F*cking grizzling ***ts' become significant? 5 million? 10million? The Poll Tax protests overturned a democratic decision.

 

Let me also ask you this question:

 

Was it worth the breakup of the UK?

[Whitey Grandad]

have you checked your bank to see if you are now £4,300 lighter today?

 

15 years wasn't it?

[Nolan]

15 years wasn't it?

Remainer Sajid Javid just said that that was unlikely to happen on the Marr Show.

 

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[Whitey Grandad]

Remainer Sajid Javid just said that that was unlikely to happen on the Marr Show.

 

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What was unlikely? The net reduction of family income over the next 15 years?

[shurlock]

Remainer Sajid Javid just said that that was unlikely to happen on the Marr Show.

 

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So? Have the independent analyses that informed the remain campaign changed their position?

[badgerx16]

have you checked your bank to see if you are now £4,300 lighter today?

You are confusing me with somebody who believes what politicians say.

[Nolan]

So? Have the independent analyses that informed the remain campaign changed their position?

No, they're saying the "worst case scenario" which was presented is the most unlikely to happen.

[Wade Garrett]

That's not how democracy works. In Britain it is a representative democracy where we elect delegates to take decisions on our behalf. Subsequently everybody's views are considered and there is a balanced and representative outcome. True democracy would mean that we held a referendum every few years. At what point do the 'F*cking grizzling ***ts' become significant? 5 million? 10million? The Poll Tax protests overturned a democratic decision.

 

Let me also ask you this question:

 

Was it worth the breakup of the UK?

 

The jocks would rather have Westminster looking out for them than Brussels, when it comes down to it.

 

There was a referendum, Leave won. That's it. Accept the result with good grace and move on.

[eurosaint]

That's not how democracy works. In Britain it is a representative democracy where we elect delegates to take decisions on our behalf. Subsequently everybody's views are considered and there is a balanced and representative outcome. True democracy would mean that we held a referendum every few years. At what point do the 'F*cking grizzling ***ts' become significant? 5 million? 10million? The Poll Tax protests overturned a democratic decision.

 

Let me also ask you this question:

 

Was it worth the breakup of the UK?

 

Wee Nicki was not quite so bullish on the Andrew Marr show and I think your statement is highly questionable !

If (and it's a big if) they call another independence referendum they will be faced with using the Euro (no chance of the pound) and establishing a border with England, neither of which even the SNP want let alone the electorate !

There is a long way to go on this one and your use of the past tense is just wrong !

[Saint-Armstrong]

What do people think of this Guardian comment? Has Dave snookered Boris?

 

[buctootim]

There was a referendum, Leave won. That's it. Accept the result with good grace and move on.

 

The referendum was round 1. Another 14 rounds to go yet.

[Whitey Grandad]

Wee Nicki was not quite so bullish on the Andrew Marr show and I think your statement is highly questionable !

If (and it's a big if) they call another independence referendum they will be faced with using the Euro (no chance of the pound) and establishing a border with England, neither of which even the SNP want let alone the electorate !

There is a long way to go on this one and your use of the past tense is just wrong !

 

They can use any currency they choose. Whether they actually stay in the EU or not is actually irrelevant, they will see this as England forcing something on them against their wishes and the issue will be 'Who governs Scotland?' Of course the UK hasn't broken up yet but in my view it is more likely than not. Much will depend on what happens in our negotiations with the EU next year or so and what I would expect is that referendum enabling legislation will be passed in Scotland with no date set immediately. The threat will be left hanging. Whatever, the whole debacle has been very divisive and the Union is now looking a lot weaker.

[Sour Mash]

Some of the lefties on here need to take a long hard look at themselves. Pouring scorn on the less well educated is quite frankly disgusting. I thought you were all about looking out for the less well off and less fortunate?

 

Instead of standing up for them or at least being sympathetic to the fact that they are less fortunate than you, you belittle them. You're not socialists with your intellectual prejudice, you're just inverted tories with a different type of snobbery. I feel sorry for the working class with you ****s looking out for them.

 

Their reaction makes last week's result even more enjoyable.

[buctootim]

What do people think of this Guardian comment? Has Dave snookered Boris?

 

 

Lot of truth in that imo. By October, having peered over the edge and heard about planned job losses, support for Brexit will have ebbed into less than half. The leaders of the parties will be looking to the looming General election, knowing Triggering Article 50 will alienate the majority of the electorate.

[Whitey Grandad]

The referendum was round 1. Another 14 rounds to go yet.

What was it Farage said back in May?

 

"In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it."

[Saint-Armstrong]

What do people think of this Guardian comment? Has Dave snookered Boris?

 

 

TLDR summary...

 

In short:

 

Dave has handed the baton on to whoever comes in, which as a result, will result in the whole Tory leadership campaign being focused around one question...

 

"Are you going to trigger Article 50?"

 

1. If Boris/whoever wriggles or gets twitchy, they're ruined.

2. If Boris/whoever doesn't wriggle but doesn't activate it, they're ruined.

3. If Boris/whoever doesn't wriggle and does activate it, they're ruined and go down as the man who saw the break-up of the union and the rough formative period that follows.

 

 

Dave may well have just thrown the ultimate hot potato at Boris.

[eurosaint]

They can use any currency they choose. Whether they actually stay in the EU or not is actually irrelevant, they will see this as England forcing something on them against their wishes and the issue will be 'Who governs Scotland?' Of course the UK hasn't broken up yet but in my view it is more likely than not. Much will depend on what happens in our negotiations with the EU next year or so and what I would expect is that referendum enabling legislation will be passed in Scotland with no date set immediately. The threat will be left hanging. Whatever, the whole debacle has been very divisive and the Union is now looking a lot weaker.

 

Can't see that they can choose 'any' currency as the Pound is highly unlikely and the Euro would only be possible if they were to be welcomed back into the EU, that would only realistically leave a new stand alone Scottish currency which is fraught with risk and would be difficult to sell the idea to the people IMO !

I do agree that the union looks a lot weaker today but remain optimistic that things can be worked out over time !

I spoke to my brother in Glasgow yesterday and he is of the impression that there is no appetite for yet another referendum at this time !

Ps. Nothing personal Whitey, just taking part in the forum debate !

[Batman]

What was it Farage said back in May?

 

"In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it."

 

had the result been reversed to remain winning. Had nigel came out bleating. I'm certain you would be all accommodating in the idea of another vote.

yep, you would have welcomed it, not doubt

[derry]

Get used to it folks we are coming out. If the politicians attempt to get out of implementing the result of the referendum it will destroy the Labour and Conservative parties and most of the MPs will lose their seats. There will be a constitutional crisis and Labour and Conservative will lose the best part of 13m votes enough to royally screw them and turn UKIP into the biggest party. Cameron is irrelevant and much as the left would like it to be a problem it will make no difference. Leave means Leave, all the mealy mouthed non acceptance that Leave was the result is just the inability of the self important so called intelligent people to accept the result. A vote the other way would have been presented as a clear mandate by the left and in this they would be right.

Edited 26 June, 2016 by derry