EU referendum

[Saint_clark]

we're on day one. The most hilarious part of this whole debacle is the leave mongs rejoicing in the lack of change and impact on day one of the vote, before any of the changes they voted for are actually implemented. You couldn't make it up.

 

We know it's a long term situation and will be a while before we see the effects. But it was literally predicted by remain that the country would be in turmoil the day after leaving, and it isn't. So...yeah.

[Whitey Grandad]

we're on day one. The most hilarious part of this whole debacle is the leave mongs rejoicing in the lack of change and impact on day one of the vote, before any of the changes they voted for are actually implemented. You couldn't make it up.

 

Indeed. Why did they vote to leave if nothing changed?

[Whitey Grandad]

We know it's a long term situation and will be a while before we see the effects. But it was literally predicted by remain that the country would be in turmoil the day after leaving, and it isn't. So...yeah.

 

I don't recall any saying that.

[Lord Duckhunter]

I have just enjoyed watching Dan Hannan on Newsnight conceding that free movement of labour will continue in the future almost identically as before (pretty much the Norway model) and Suzanne Evans denying anyone ever said that £350m a week would be spent on the NHS. 24 hours and 45 mins after the polls closed.

 

But well done you on calling bullsh it because it's already looking like bullsh it.

 

leave was not a political party with a manifesto to now carry out . Some leave people wanted less immigration , some the same , some like Trendy vicar Giles Frasier wanted more . The key is who decides it . Same with NHS finding , it is up to political parties to spell out what they'll do with the Brexit bonus and we will then vote on it and hold them to account . As Evans isn't chancellor how on earth can she ensure it goes to the NHS . If it doesn't , it's Osborne who has spent it elsewhere not UKIP with one MP

[TwoPints]

But it was literally predicted by remain that the country would be in turmoil the day after leaving

 

Except that it wasn't. However if you happen to have some of your money or pension invested in bank shares for example, things might not be as rosy today as they were yesterday.

 

Sent from my SM-T810 using Tapatalk

[shurlock]

Except that it wasn't. However if you happen to have some of your money or pension invested in bank shares for example, things might not be as rosy today as they were yesterday.

 

Sent from my SM-T810 using Tapatalk

 

My SIPP went up £450 today Then again it's partly geared to things going tits up and took a hit when everyone was assuming a remain win.

[Lighthouse]

we're on day one. The most hilarious part of this whole debacle is the leave mongs rejoicing in the lack of change and impact on day one of the vote, before any of the changes they voted for are actually implemented. You couldn't make it up.

 

How is that any different to the remainers claiming financial meltdown barely minutes after the markets opened this morning?

 

Nothing has been proven yet, although both sides have tried to claim otherwise.

[TwoPints]

My SIPP went up £450 today Then again it's partly geared to things going tits up and took a hit when everyone was assuming a remain win.

Well as long as you're alright eh!

[so22saint]

We know it's a long term situation and will be a while before we see the effects. But it was literally predicted by remain that the country would be in turmoil the day after leaving, and it isn't. So...yeah.

 

other than £ down, FTSE down, Scotland calling for a second indepence vote, PM resignation, petition for 2nd referendum and for London to leave the UK I totally agree :-)

[shurlock]

Well as long as you're alright eh!

 

You make a serious point, though, that as state and corporate pension plans are scaled back, people (principally the young assuming they're even able to save given student debt and other living costs) are increasingly forced to make investment decisions on their own and roll the dice on stock markets.

Edited 24 June, 2016 by shurlock

[BlakeySFC]

other than £ down, FTSE down, Scotland calling for a second independence vote, PM resignation, petition for 2nd referendum and for London to leave the UK I totally agree :-)

 

This.

 

Moronic Leave twonks disregarding expert opinions on the economy etc. and thinking everything will be hunky dory.

 

Cannot believe my future has essentially been decided by a bunch of xenophobic, racist, ignorant morons.

[Lighthouse]

This.

 

Moronic Leave twonks disregarding expert opinions on the economy etc. and thinking everything will be hunky dory.

 

Cannot believe my future has essentially been decided by a bunch of xenophobic, racist, ignorant morons.

 

I didn't know this referendum was deciding people's futures, must be terrible. I had no idea Farage had told you which career you have to choose, where you have to live, who you have to marry, how many kids you're allowed, what to call your dog and where you're allowed to go on your stag do.

[Saint-Armstrong]

Okay, so what do people make of this theory from David Allen Green who is the law and policy man for the FT...?

 

Sounds far-fetched to me but well, it'd be interesting...

 

 

Summary of his tweets this evening...

 

 

There's no reason for Article 50 not to be immediately activated upon a 'leave' victory in a referendum. With every day that passes, the activation of Article 50 seems less likely.

 

So, what happens next?

 

Cameron goes. Boris - most likely - gets into Number 10 and heads off for the talks with Europe before deciding that he isn't going to activate Article 50 after all and he advises that it's best for us to stay in the EU with some 'new' concessions that he can secure.

 

It effectively reduces everything that's happened in recent months to an underhanded plot to get Dave out of Downing Street and get Boris in.

 

Thoughts...

 

 

 

Article: https://next.ft.com/content/3073daed-7458-38ed-826b-5b6d1dc81dad

 

Green's tweets: https://twitter.com/DavidAllenGreen

Edited 25 June, 2016 by Saint-Armstrong

[stknowle]

we're on day one. The most hilarious part of this whole debacle is the leave mongs rejoicing in the lack of change and impact on day one of the vote, before any of the changes they voted for are actually implemented. You couldn't make it up.

 

Day one yes. Already looking like the predictions of economic armageddon are exaggerated yes.

[shurlock]

Ken Clarke speaking alot of sense as usual.

[BlakeySFC]

I didn't know this referendum was deciding people's futures, must be terrible. I had no idea Farage had told you which career you have to choose, where you have to live, who you have to marry, how many kids you're allowed, what to call your dog and where you're allowed to go on your stag do.

 

Yeah what a surprise many UK jobs are linked to Europe, eh?

 

Farage didn't tell me where I had to live, who I had to marry, how many kids I can have or what to call or dog or where to go on my Stag do.

 

For the record, my constituency (Waverley) voted In.

 

But he did tell a bunch of lies (along with the Leave campaign as a whole) that secured Britain's exit from Europe, I'm sure many of those who voted out don't even know what the EU is.

[Donatello]

we're on day one. The most hilarious part of this whole debacle is the leave mongs rejoicing in the lack of change and impact on day one of the vote, before any of the changes they voted for are actually implemented. You couldn't make it up.

 

An attitude which is indicative of what is wrong with the majority of political discussion.

[Lighthouse]

Yeah what a surprise many UK jobs are linked to Europe, eh?

 

Jobs which you have now been banned for life from ever having because they are linked to Europe, I presume.

 

I'm intrigued actually, what is it specifically you have been banned from doing now that we are living the EU?

[BlakeySFC]

Jobs which you have now been banned for life from ever having because they are linked to Europe, I presume.

 

I'm intrigued actually, what is it specifically you have been banned from doing now that we are living the EU?

 

Never said I'd been banned from anything, just said I work for a European company, and I'd feel the effects of the Brexit first hand, and that I'm seriously considering relocating to Dublin.

 

 

[Lighthouse]

Never said I'd been banned from anything, just said I work for a European company, and I'd feel the effects of the Brexit first hand, and that I'm seriously considering relocating to Dublin.

 

 

 

 

So when you said your future had been decided by a nation of xenophobes and racists, what you actually meant is that YOU have decided that SOME aspects of your future MIGHT be best served working in another part of Europe.... In the short term, maybe.

 

Welcome to the 21st Century, I've had to live in 5 foreign countries to get to my current job.

[BlakeySFC]

So when you said your future had been decided by a nation of xenophobes and racists, what you actually meant is that YOU have decided that SOME aspects of your future MIGHT be best served working in another part of Europe.... In the short term, maybe.

 

Welcome to the 21st Century, I've had to live in 5 foreign countries to get to my current job.

 

Well I'd expect you to be more progressive and tolerant then.

 

I meant I'd have to seriously consider leaving the UK to work in another country if Brexit won. Let's be real, the vote wasn't decided by University professor's and intellectuals, it was decided by xenophobes and racists scared of seeing a few brown people walking down the street and those who wanted to stick it to Cameron and his cronies.

[Lord Duckhunter]

It'll be at least 10 years before we will know if this was a good call or not.

 

We seem to have a minority in this country who only believe in democracy when it delivers a result they believe in . We saw it after the 2015 election and we're seeing it again now . They can barely conceal their contempt for people who believe in different things . They seem to think that their politics are driven by humanity and the good of the nation , whereas their opponents are motivated by greed or prejudice or else they're just too stupid to understand . They can't seem to grasp that everybody wants what's best for the nation and what's best for them , their family , communities and the future , we just differ on how to achieve it . You can't look into a mans soul and guess his motives for voting a particular way , you should just rejoice that we live in a country where his opinion can be expressed freely , even if it is different from yours . It's just as legitimate .

Edited 25 June, 2016 by Lord Duckhunter

[Chalkboy]

This.

 

Moronic Leave twonks disregarding expert opinions on the economy etc. and thinking everything will be hunky dory.

 

Cannot believe my future has essentially been decided by a bunch of xenophobic, racist, ignorant morons.

 

So the millions of people who voted out are "xenophobic, racist, ignorant morons"? Or "moronic twonks"?

 

Intelligent statement that. Do you really believe it? Funny, because all the people I know who voted out are intelligent well read individuals, but then again that can't be true can it because obviously they're all racist, xenophobic, moronic, ignorant twonks.

 

 

I really can't stand this broad-stroke stereotyping of millions of people because they have a different view. And that goes for both sides of the argument. From what I've experienced there are genuine concerns from all sides about the future of this country, whether it be leave or remain. None of the people I've spoken to are nutters, xenophobes, racists, lefties, right-ons, morons, bigots, or whatever condescending insult one wishes to attach to others with a different view. In fact the only time I've come across such people is through the self-righteous, high and mighty attitudes of certain persons on here. F*ckin disgraceful.

Edited 25 June, 2016 by Chalkboy

[BlakeySFC]

It'll be at least 10 years before we will know if this was a good call or not.

 

We seem to have a minority in this country who only believe in democracy when it delivers a result they believe in . We saw it after the 2015 election and we're seeing it again now . They can barely conceal their contempt for people who believe in different things . They seem to think that their politics are driven by humanity and the good of the nation , whereas their opponents are motivated by greed or prejudice or else they're just too stupid to understand . They can't seem to grasp that everybody wants what's best for the nation and what's best for them , their family , communities and the future , we just differ on how to achieve it . You can't look into a mans soul and guess his motives for voting a particular way , you should just rejoice that we live in a country where his opinion can be expressed freely , even if it is different from yours . It's just as legitimate .

 

 

Not at all, we've already seen the pound slump to a 30 year low and the FTSE tumble, it's clear at this moment in time that it wasn't a good call.

 

And I think the 'minority' you speak of are the 48% that wanted to remain in the European Union, I respect the democratic process and that the country as a whole voted to leave the EU but what rankles is that the over 50s seemingly have decided our future for us.

 

They've voted to leave the EU based on scewed Immigration numbers, wanting to to stick it to Westminster and false figures in regards to the NHS receiving funding.

 

 

So the millions of people who voted out are "xenophobic, racist, ignorant morons"? Or "moronic twonks"?

 

Intelligent statement that. Do you really believe it? Funny, because all the people I now who voted out are intelligent well read individuals, but then again that can't be true can it because obviously they're all racist, xenophobic, moronic, ignorant twonks.

 

 

I really can't stand this broad-stroke stereotyping of millions of people because they have a different view. And that goes for both sides of the argument. From what I've experienced there are genuine concerns from all sides about the future of this country, whether it be leave or remain. None of the people I've spoken to are nutters, xenophobes, racists, lefties, right-ons, morons, bigots, or whatever condescending insult one wishes to attach to others with a different view. In fact the only time I've come across such people is through the self-righteous, high and mighty attitudes of certain persons on here. F*ckin disgraceful.

 

By and large, yes. They wanted to stick it to the man, or send a message to the government without realising what they were actually doing or the repercussions that would follow.

 

A lot of people voted leave purely because of Immigration fears, and disregarded the multitude of other factors in remaining (or leaving) the EU.

 

People who voted leave read the Sun and/or Express, believed everything they said and voted for what they believed in, there isn't inherently anything wrong with that but it has doomed us under 30s to a life out of the EU.

Edited 25 June, 2016 by BlakeySFC

[van Hanegem]

You make a serious point, though, that as state and corporate pension plans are scaled back, people (principally the young assuming they're even able to save given student debt and other living costs) are increasingly forced to make investment decisions on their own and roll the dice on stock markets.

 

The EU is planning to harmonise the various pension systems in Europe in order to guarantee that every member state is capable to keep the pension plans running. Consider yourself lucky there's no chance you will ever have to pay for the pension plans of Greece or France...

[Shance]

Not at all, we've already seen the pound slump to a 30 year low and the FTSE tumble, it's clear at this moment in time that it wasn't a good call.

 

That's a laughable way of looking at it. The pound was always going to drop. Stocks are reactionary. It will recover. FTSE has already started bouncing back. Leaving was never going to be easy. There will be a slump in the pound for a little while.

[Shance]

Also, read this. This is an American senior state department official.

 

Later, a senior state department official told the Guardian: “This is obviously not the outcome that either of our governments wanted but it’s democracy and so we’re moving on. We have to. It’s just too important not to. The relationship’s too important, the issues that we’re working with the UK on are too vital.

 

“You name it: Afghanistan, Ukraine, Syria, the Asia-Pacific region. The Brits are such a key partner on so many issues that it’s just too important to allow this to derail a lot of that cooperation.

 

&

 

State department spokesperson John Kirby said John Kerry had spoken with British foreign secretary Philip Hammond.

 

“Nothing’s going to change about the deep and abiding relationship we have with the UK, which is a special relationship,” Kirby told reporters. “We’re going to continue to work hard with the UK and the EU as they work through what this decision means across an array of specific issues. We absolutely, fully respect the will of the British people here.”

 

 

I wish people would stop jumping to stupid conclusions based on things we knew would initially happen when the out vote came through.

 

The facts are. America has done a u-turn on trading, European countries have said they want to trade with us and open trade agreements with us, the EU scaremongering about how we would not get trade deals with them and Brexit would ruin us have already made a statement contradicting that. France have said Le Tourquet agreement will remain.

 

The hysteria is laughable. People need to calm the **** down and just go about their normal lives for a bit. We've done our bit, now it's up to the politicians to do theirs.

[van Hanegem]

This.

 

Moronic Leave twonks disregarding expert opinions on the economy etc. and thinking everything will be hunky dory.

 

Cannot believe my future has essentially been decided by a bunch of xenophobic, racist, ignorant morons.

 

Living in the UK must be hell with millions of xenophobic, racist and ignorant morons. You must be glad you have the opportunity to leave for Ireland...

[Chalkboy]

 

 

 

 

By and large, yes. They wanted to stick it to the man, or send a message to the government without realising what they were actually doing or the repercussions that would follow.

 

A lot of people voted leave purely because of Immigration fears, and disregarded the multitude of other factors in remaining (or leaving) the EU.

 

People who voted leave read the Sun and/or Express, believed everything they said and voted for what they believed in, there isn't inherently anything wrong with that but it has doomed us under 30s to a life out of the EU.

 

Wow. you really have your finger on the pulse and seem to know everything. Thanks for filling me in, I'm now much more enlightened. I'll inform friends and family who voted "out" that they are xenophobes, racists, morons and twonks who believe everything they read in the Express and Sun (although I don't think any of them read those papers). Thanks for your wisdom. I might struggle to come to terms with realising that all these people that I have known and loved for many years are xenopohobes, racists and moronic twonks, but I thank you for putting me straight. Cheers. :thumbup::thumbup:

 

ps one of my friends here, who is a xenophobe, just pointed out that people who make statements such as yours are generally "moronic bigoted twonks themselves, but due to their self righteousness can't see it". I said that he's wrong and that you have got it all damn right. So I put him straight. Thanks again.

[shurlock]

The EU is planning to harmonise the various pension systems in Europe in order to guarantee that every member state is capable to keep the pension plans running. Consider yourself lucky there's no chance you will ever have to pay for the pension plans of Greece or France...

 

Lets see where that goes - not very far I suspect. Of course, harmonisation can mean plenty of things and provide substantial scope for flexibility. FWIW UK public spending on pensions is one of the lowest in the developed world, only behind Mexico and Chile.

 

http://www.cityam.com/229957/the-uk-has-one-of-the-lowest-pensions-in-developed-world-according-to-the-oecd

[shurlock]

Also, read this. This is an American senior state department official.

 

Later, a senior state department official told the Guardian: “This is obviously not the outcome that either of our governments wanted but it’s democracy and so we’re moving on. We have to. It’s just too important not to. The relationship’s too important, the issues that we’re working with the UK on are too vital.

 

“You name it: Afghanistan, Ukraine, Syria, the Asia-Pacific region. The Brits are such a key partner on so many issues that it’s just too important to allow this to derail a lot of that cooperation.

 

&

 

State department spokesperson John Kirby said John Kerry had spoken with British foreign secretary Philip Hammond.

 

“Nothing’s going to change about the deep and abiding relationship we have with the UK, which is a special relationship,” Kirby told reporters. “We’re going to continue to work hard with the UK and the EU as they work through what this decision means across an array of specific issues. We absolutely, fully respect the will of the British people here.”

 

 

I wish people would stop jumping to stupid conclusions based on things we knew would initially happen when the out vote came through.

 

The facts are. America has done a u-turn on trading, European countries have said they want to trade with us and open trade agreements with us, the EU scaremongering about how we would not get trade deals with them and Brexit would ruin us have already made a statement contradicting that. France have said Le Tourquet agreement will remain.

 

The hysteria is laughable. People need to calm the **** down and just go about their normal lives for a bit. We've done our bit, now it's up to the politicians to do theirs.

 

Why would it? The argument isn't that the US is going to abandon the UK; the argument that the UK would a much more valuable ally to the US if it was within the EU. Being the US' interlocutor in the EU -whether it is on the free trade deal between the US and EU or making sure the EU does not buckle with Russia- gives the UK much more influence and leverage. That's now moot.

Edited 25 June, 2016 by shurlock

[Shance]

Obama's point in the lead up to the referendum was that Britain would be at the back of the cue when it came to trading. They have already backtracked on that and many others are back tracking on their threats as well.

[whelk]

Comment from that well known leftie rag the FT.

 

Edited 25 June, 2016 by whelk

[whelk]

Haven't waded through this thread but may have been mentioned the Cornwall Council protesting they still want the money their EU grant provide, Doesn't work like that thickos.

Half the vote leave lot will be crying in a few months time realising Boris and co aren't their working class heroes.

Edited 25 June, 2016 by whelk

[Shance]

Why do people keep saying that British people won't be able to work in Europe? That's utter ********.

[whelk]

Why do people keep saying that British people won't be able to work in Europe? That's utter ********.

 

It is only the bad things we are losing. We move on to Utopia. Read it in the Daily Mail

[Lord Duckhunter]

Comment from that well known leftie rag the FT.

 

 

Pile of pony . How have our youngsters " lost the right to live and work in 27 other countries" ? I lived and worked in the US, my lad lives and works in Aus , my snap dragons uncle lives and works in Canada, my neighbours parents lived and worked in Spain prior to the EEC. I was in Cyprus recently and met Russians , living and working there, I've met Aussies in France , living and working there , met a South Africian musician singing in the bars of Alberfuria . At a school reunion we had people living and working in Hong Kong , Switzerland and Dubai . Laughable that people think you have to be in a political union to live and work abroad.

[whelk]

Pile of pony . How have our youngsters " lost the right to live and work in 27 other countries" ? I lived and worked in the US, my lad lives and works in Aus , my snap dragons uncle lives and works in Canada, my neighbours parents lived and worked in Spain prior to the EEC. I was in Cyprus recently and met Russians , living and working there, I've met Aussies in France , living and working there , met a South Africian musician singing in the bars of Alberfuria . At a school reunion we had people living and working in Hong Kong , Switzerland and Dubai . Laughable that people think you have to be in a political union to live and work abroad.

 

Actually agree on that bit and weakens argument when making that the focus when it might be little more inconvenient.

 

Hardly anyone has mentioned the roaming mobile charges

 

Have you read the Phillip Collins piece? Genuinely interested if you think this is 'pony' http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/it-will-take-an-age-to-recover-from-this-victory-for-the-exit-fantasists-zzfpxsc66

 

Edit: Ahh now behind the paywall. Was free yesterday

Edited 25 June, 2016 by whelk

[Lord Duckhunter]

Actually agree on that bit and weakens argument when making that the focus when it might be little more inconvenient.

 

Hardly anyone has mentioned the roaming mobile charges

 

Have you read the Phillip Collins piece? Genuinely interested if you think this is 'pony' http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/it-will-take-an-age-to-recover-from-this-victory-for-the-exit-fantasists-zzfpxsc66

 

Edit: Ahh now behind the paywall. Was free yesterday

 

Collins is soaking wet , so I doubt I'll agree with it . Funny that I've been listening the past few weeks to The Tomes red box podcast , and the Collins' , Parris' of the world sneering at the Leavers . They ran a sweepstake from day one , what would remain get % wise . They were nearly all high 50's . The average was about 54% but that was with listeners guesses included . Their expert political team were average around about 57%. I only recall 1 predicting leave , I think that was Melanie Phillips . Looking forward to humble pie this week, particularly that pious establishment booby Matthew Parris

[hutch]

Actually agree on that bit and weakens argument when making that the focus when it might be little more inconvenient.

 

Hardly anyone has mentioned the roaming mobile charges

 

Have you read the Phillip Collins piece? Genuinely interested if you think this is 'pony' http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/it-will-take-an-age-to-recover-from-this-victory-for-the-exit-fantasists-zzfpxsc66

 

Edit: Ahh now behind the paywall. Was free yesterday

I think the words "in the short term" that he slipped into the first point should not be ignored. Maybe some "older" people have done what they consider to be the decent thing, and are prepared to take some short-term pain to give the possibility of what they see as a brighter future for their children and grandchildren.

 

Or maybe they're all swivel-eyed raving racists, all 17 million of them.

[shurlock]

It'll be at least 10 years before we will know if this was a good call or not.

 

We seem to have a minority in this country who only believe in democracy when it delivers a result they believe in . We saw it after the 2015 election and we're seeing it again now . They can barely conceal their contempt for people who believe in different things . They seem to think that their politics are driven by humanity and the good of the nation , whereas their opponents are motivated by greed or prejudice or else they're just too stupid to understand . They can't seem to grasp that everybody wants what's best for the nation and what's best for them , their family , communities and the future , we just differ on how to achieve it . You can't look into a mans soul and guess his motives for voting a particular way , you should just rejoice that we live in a country where his opinion can be expressed freely , even if it is different from yours . It's just as legitimate .

 

You misunderstand the situation. Nobody has claimed that people should think or want the same things or agree on the means to achieve them. But for democracy to work, it needs to operate within a framework of reason and evidence: instead, as the FT points out (via Whelk), we’ve witnessed a celebration of ignorance, egged on by the former Secretary of State for Education of all people.

 

When blatant untruths are exposed yet continue to be shamelessly paraded, people will get frustrated. It has nothing to with differences in opinion. Brexiters have been fantastically skillful at playing the victim card – protesting how their ‘values’ aren’t being respected while dismissing others as dripping luvvies when, in fact, they’re trying to shut down a debate because, at root, they struggle to hold an argument. The lady doth protest too much.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

The observation that the UK is now in a "post rational" state is both an acute and a worrying one. I realise now that attempts from we "48% percenters" to argue against the irrationality of our fellow citizens were always doomed because they just weren't listening - a conversation with the deaf. A dear friend of mine told me yesterday that her vote to leave would help make everything "better" somehow. When challenged to explain why that should be she had no meaningful answer.

 

I see that Bretix leaders are now busy rewriting yesterday's history and admitting that immigration may not change much afterall and that the promised massive increase in NHS spending will never become a reality. Not exactly a surprise to me but when the truth of this dawn's on Bretix supporters I wonder how will this strange coalition of white working class peope and elderly conservatives that form the core of the Bretix vote react? And then there is the small matter of my country being torn apart.

 

#Whatthefookhavewedone.

[shirleysfc]

Cheers - the UN only gives data for 15-19 and 20-24, so it requires a bit of massaging. By contrast, 65+ year olds are 11.8m. That suggests the number of 'remain' 18-24 year olds ~4.4 million wouldn't have matched the number of 'out' 65+ year olds ~7.1 milllon irrespectve of turnout. Older voters won it by sheer numbers.

 

And the age group with the largest population (25-49 - 21,804,300) wanted to remain 56:44.

 

If the exit poll age breakdown stats are correct, then the over 50s decided this because a higher % of their numbers actually voted, not because they had a numerical advantage in the first place.

Edited 25 June, 2016 by shirleysfc

[Lord Duckhunter]

You misunderstand the situation. Nobody has claimed that people should think or want the same things or agree on the means to achieve them. But for democracy to work, it needs to operate within a framework of reason and evidence: instead, as the FT points out (via Whelk), we’ve witnessed a celebration of ignorance, egged on by the former Secretary of State for Education of all people.

 

When blatant untruths are exposed yet continue to be shamelessly paraded, people will get frustrated. It has nothing to with differences in opinion. Brexiters have been fantastically skillful at playing the victim card – protesting how their ‘values’ aren’t being respected while dismissing others as dripping luvvies when, in fact, they’re trying to shut down a debate because, at root, they struggle to hold an argument. The lady doth protest too much.

 

 

At it again , " a celebration of ignorance" what an arrogant, patronising statement .

 

You want to talk about blatant untruths , look at the remain side and some of their claims . Democracy must work within a frame work of reason and evidence you claim. No doubt had you won you would have thought it had. However , unable to accept being out of tune with the majority , all of a sudden reason and evidence didn't exist .

 

You are looking at reason and evidence through the prism of your own prejudice and opinions. You didn't lose because of some gigantic con trick and lies told to trick the English people , but because the English people looked at the arguments , decided what they thought were reason and evidence and voted to leave the Eu .

[Lord Duckhunter]

 

I see that Bretix leaders are now busy rewriting yesterday's history and admitting that immigration may not change much afterall and that the promised massive increase in NHS spending will never become a reality. Not exactly a surprise to me but when the truth of this dawn's on Bretix supporters I wonder how will this strange coalition of white working class peope and elderly conservatives that form the core of the Bretix vote react? And then there is the small matter of my country being torn apart.

 

#Whatthefookhavewedone.

 

Please explain how the Brexit leaders implement increase in NHS spending when Jeremy Hunt is health sec , Gideon Chancellor and the Brexit Leaders come from 3 completely different parties . It is for the Government of the day to allocate where the Brexit bonus is spent , the leave camp merely pointed out that we could spend it on the NHS .

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Oh come, come. The referendum campaign was always a Tory leadership campaign is cunning disguise and many of the promises made by Bretix leaders to the British people very much akin to a manifesto.

 

Did you not notice this?

[badgerx16]

 

 

 

‘In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it.’ - Nigel Farage

 

Read more: http://metro.co.uk/2016/06/24/remember-that-time-nigel-farage-said-52-48-votes-should-lead-to-second-referendum-5963900/#ixzz4CZe41oB2

[Dig Dig]

At it again , " a celebration of ignorance" what an arrogant, patronising statement .

 

You want to talk about blatant untruths , look at the remain side and some of their claims . Democracy must work within a frame work of reason and evidence you claim. No doubt had you won you would have thought it had. However , unable to accept being out of tune with the majority , all of a sudden reason and evidence didn't exist .

 

You are looking at reason and evidence through the prism of your own prejudice and opinions. You didn't lose because of some gigantic con trick and lies told to trick the English people , but because the English people looked at the arguments , decided what they thought were reason and evidence and voted to leave the Eu .

 

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/06/brexit-google-search-trends-tech/

 

A load of leavers also coming out of the woodwork saying their vote was tactical as they didn't believe leave would win in a straight forward in or out vote

[Lord Duckhunter]

Oh come, come. The referendum campaign was always a Tory leadership campaign is cunning disguise and many of the promises made by Bretix leaders to the British people very much akin to a manifesto.

 

Did you not notice this?

 

 

It was a multi party campaign group not a political party putting forward a manifesto . Corbyn wanted an in vote to bring about more workers rights , had they won and the EU & Cameron didn't go for it , how can I blame Corbyn . He gave his vision of the eu , but until he's in a position to deliver that vision you can't hold him to account .

[badgerx16]

, the leave camp merely pointed out that we could spend it on the NHS .

But the fact that they pointed this out repeatedly was clearly intended to plant the suggestion that it would be spent on the NHS.