buctootim Posted 24 December, 2015 Share Posted 24 December, 2015 Wrong. Our net migration with the EU is just under 200,000 per annum. Its always amusing watching you insist you are right and Office of National Statistics is wrong. Please dont stop. [/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 24 December, 2015 Share Posted 24 December, 2015 So much less than Germany are having to use to bail out Greece. Good job we're out of it then. or put another way, 50 times more than your educated estimate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 24 December, 2015 Share Posted 24 December, 2015 Its always amusing watching you insist you are right and Office of National Statistics is wrong. Please dont stop. [/img] Your figures are out of date. Unlucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 24 December, 2015 Share Posted 24 December, 2015 or put another way, 50 times more than your educated estimate My figures weren't an educated estimate, that was the point. Glad we've proven how much money we've saved out of the Euro though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 24 December, 2015 Share Posted 24 December, 2015 Why do you think America is such a big economy? 320 million people all using the same currency and all connected by road. That's because it's one country . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch Posted 13 January, 2016 Share Posted 13 January, 2016 I just listened to the Hardtalk interview with the Bosnian foreign minister. A very good example of what's wrong with the way the EU is heading. Western Europe? No problem. Central and eastern Europe? At a pinch. But the Balkans are nowhere near ready for the degree of collaboration and integration that EU membership requires. And what about Turkey? Are they really in line? They're not even in Europe. The issue isn't about what the EU is now, and it's already near breaking point on many issues, but what will it become over the next few years? I didn't think I would say this, but I think now is the time to get out and leave them to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 13 January, 2016 Share Posted 13 January, 2016 I just listened to the Hardtalk interview with the Bosnian foreign minister. A very good example of what's wrong with the way the EU is heading. Western Europe? No problem. Central and eastern Europe? At a pinch. But the Balkans are nowhere near ready for the degree of collaboration and integration that EU membership requires. And what about Turkey? Are they really in line? They're not even in Europe. The issue isn't about what the EU is now, and it's already near breaking point on many issues, but what will it become over the next few years? I didn't think I would say this, but I think now is the time to get out and leave them to it. Agree it would have been much better to have stopped expansion in the 1980s. UK, Germany, Netherlands, Austria, Italy, France, Belgium and Denmark have roughly similar economies and standards of living so you have freedom of movement without big imbalances. Politicians like Blair saw the eastward expansion as a way to divert the EU into broadening participation instead of deepening it. You can have a free trade zone including the Balkans, Turkey etc or a close political union with a much smaller group, but trying to do both doesnt work. On balance its still worth stating in, but its more marginal than it used to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 13 January, 2016 Share Posted 13 January, 2016 Agree it would have been much better to have stopped expansion in the 1980s. UK, Germany, Netherlands, Austria, Italy, France, Belgium and Denmark have roughly similar economies and standards of living so you have freedom of movement without big imbalances. Politicians like Blair saw the eastward expansion as a way to divert the EU into broadening participation instead of deepening it. You can have a free trade zone including the Balkans, Turkey etc or a close political union with a much smaller group, but trying to do both doesnt work. On balance its still worth stating in, but its more marginal than it used to be. Agree with that Tim. Good post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 17 January, 2016 Share Posted 17 January, 2016 (edited) Although I've been told on here before that - for some unexplained reason - I move in extremely unrepresentative circles, for what's worth virtually everyone I personally talk to on this subject favours our withdraw from the EU. More significantly, actual poll evidence published this weekend seems to reflect that impression of the national mood I have perceived with a 53 to 47% majority recorded for the so-called 'Britex' campaign. http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2016/01/17/446096/UK-poll-EU-Brexit-Cameron/ There's a long way to go as yet and I'm still rather 'sitting on the fence' myself. But it does seem that the prospect of the UK leaving the EU is rapidly becoming a evermore realistic one. Edited 17 January, 2016 by CHAPEL END CHARLIE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 17 January, 2016 Share Posted 17 January, 2016 Although I've been told on here before that - for some unexplained reason - I move in extremely unrepresentative circles, for what's worth virtually everyone I personally talk to on this subject favours our withdraw from the EU. More significantly, actual poll evidence published this weekend seems to reflect that impression of the national mood I have perceived with a 53 to 47% majority recorded for the so-called 'Britex' campaign. http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2016/01/17/446096/UK-poll-EU-Brexit-Cameron/ There's a long way to go as yet and I'm still rather 'sitting on the fence' myself. But it does seem that the prospect of the UK leaving the EU is rapidly becoming a evermore realistic one. This migrant crisis will be a big boost for the out campaign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 27 January, 2016 Author Share Posted 27 January, 2016 Although I've been told on here before that - for some unexplained reason - I move in extremely unrepresentative circles, for what's worth virtually everyone I personally talk to on this subject favours our withdraw from the EU. More significantly, actual poll evidence published this weekend seems to reflect that impression of the national mood I have perceived with a 53 to 47% majority recorded for the so-called 'Britex' campaign. http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2016/01/17/446096/UK-poll-EU-Brexit-Cameron/ There's a long way to go as yet and I'm still rather 'sitting on the fence' myself. But it does seem that the prospect of the UK leaving the EU is rapidly becoming a evermore realistic one. My unrepresentative circles tell me the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 28 January, 2016 Share Posted 28 January, 2016 My unrepresentative circles tell me the same thing. Mine too. As aintforever says, the migrant crisis is a big boost for the out campaign and I cannot see that situation easing. It is indeed more likely to become an increasing factor within the next few months and a large proportion of the electorate would already cite the lack of immigration controls within the EU zone as the greatest reason to leave. The EU persist in trying to shoot themselves in the foot with proposals like the latest one to forego the insistence that asylum seekers must claim that status at the first country that they arrive in that is deemed to offer them a safe haven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 28 January, 2016 Share Posted 28 January, 2016 Dear God , did that labour women in QT just say the most important factor in referendum was cheap phone calls & queues at the airport. She then compared Cologne incident to blokes wolf whistling chicks on a Friday in Brum . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 29 January, 2016 Share Posted 29 January, 2016 Dear God , did that labour women in QT just say the most important factor in referendum was cheap phone calls & queues at the airport. She then compared Cologne incident to blokes wolf whistling chicks on a Friday in Brum . To be fair Cologne may have been bad but it's nothing compared to the wild west that is Maidstone on a Saturday night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 29 January, 2016 Share Posted 29 January, 2016 The EU is a mess and is going to get worse. I'm out. Conned to vote in in 1975. I'm not going to make the same mistake again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 29 January, 2016 Share Posted 29 January, 2016 (edited) The EU is a mess and is going to get worse. I'm out. Conned to vote in in 1975. I'm not going to make the same mistake again. ... Edited 29 January, 2016 by sadoldgit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 29 January, 2016 Share Posted 29 January, 2016 To be fair Cologne may have been bad but it's nothing compared to the wild west that is Maidstone on a Saturday night. I didn't say that yet I am the one who makes things up? Hypocrite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solentstars Posted 29 January, 2016 Share Posted 29 January, 2016 Saw the American guy who advised bank of England a few years ago on nbc usa business program yesterday.said he expects the pound to drop and investments to dry up and a run on the pound and another recession in the UK,if they leave the EU but thinks the common sense of most people will avert that disaster and they are shooting them selves in the foot.he was speaking as a investment broker for a top us company.so be had no axe to grind.I think the dreamers on here need to wake up and smell the coffee rather than live in a dream world. Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 29 January, 2016 Share Posted 29 January, 2016 Saw the American guy who advised bank of England a few years ago on nbc usa business program yesterday.said he expects the pound to drop and investments to dry up and a run on the pound and another recession in the UK,if they leave the EU but thinks the common sense of most people will avert that disaster and they are shooting them selves in the foot.he was speaking as a investment broker for a top us company.so be had no axe to grind.I think the dreamers on here need to wake up and smell the coffee rather than live in a dream world. Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk He takes the typically arrogant stance of the "stay" brigade. Those who decide to stay will have been those who have enough "common sense" to avoid "shooting themselves in the foot." Those who wish to leave have their own reasons and those should not be dismissed as nonsensical to appease some bloody Yank sticking in his two cents worth. If he has no axe to grind, then why does he bother to attempt to scare-monger our electorate into taking one position over another? Would he like it some British investment broker went on the media to opine that in their Presidential Elections Trump would be the sensible choice for President and that if he were not to be elected, then the USA economy would go into a decline? You also adapt this arrogance by calling the "leave" brigade "dreamers", so it comes as no surprise that his opinions strike a chord with you. I think we should avoid smelling the Yank Starbucks coffee, as they are not helping the British economy by their tax avoidance schemes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 29 January, 2016 Share Posted 29 January, 2016 He takes the typically arrogant stance of the "stay" brigade. Those who decide to stay will have been those who have enough "common sense" to avoid "shooting themselves in the foot." Those who wish to leave have their own reasons and those should not be dismissed as nonsensical to appease some bloody Yank sticking in his two cents worth. If he has no axe to grind, then why does he bother to attempt to scare-monger our electorate into taking one position over another? Would he like it some British investment broker went on the media to opine that in their Presidential Elections Trump would be the sensible choice for President and that if he were not to be elected, then the USA economy would go into a decline? You also adapt this arrogance by calling the "leave" brigade "dreamers", so it comes as no surprise that his opinions strike a chord with you. I think we should avoid smelling the Yank Starbucks coffee, as they are not helping the British economy by their tax avoidance schemes. The are quite a few logic gaps in that little tirade. I'm ambivalent about the EU but little Englander rants like this push me into the opposite camp. Adam Posen is an economist talking about the economic impact on Britain if we were to leave. He says nothing about who should be Prime Minister so your reference to the Presidential election is flawed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 29 January, 2016 Author Share Posted 29 January, 2016 Saw the American guy who advised bank of England a few years ago on nbc usa business program yesterday.said he expects the pound to drop and investments to dry up and a run on the pound and another recession in the UK,if they leave the EU but thinks the common sense of most people will avert that disaster and they are shooting them selves in the foot.he was speaking as a investment broker for a top us company.so be had no axe to grind.I think the dreamers on here need to wake up and smell the coffee rather than live in a dream world. Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk I think he is under-estimating us. It can't all be about business, he doesn't mention our public services creaking at the seams or a country without any borders. Ironic really, when Trump is getting all the plaudits in his own country for his opinion on immigration. The financial world hate change. Who's to say we can't have a trading relationship with the EU or anyone else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 29 January, 2016 Share Posted 29 January, 2016 I'm ambivalent about the EU but little Englander rants like this push me into the opposite camp. You base your decision on such an important referendum on some posts on a football forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solentstars Posted 29 January, 2016 Share Posted 29 January, 2016 I think he is under-estimating us. It can't all be about business, he doesn't mention our public services creaking at the seams or a country without any borders. Ironic really, when Trump is getting all the plaudits in his own country for his opinion on immigration. The financial world hate change. Who's to say we can't have a trading relationship with the EU or anyone else? all i know was it was aimed at a americian audience and the other hosts agreed with him and i doubt hes worried about borders and public services,he was just talking about where the money and investment would collapse andsterling would be dumped and will go lower has we hold a referendum and will and it was scarey of what he said about any britsh exit and how we would shoot our selves in the foot.i wish we had the otherside of the debate in this country. the outs have not said what they will do if this happened and alot of peoples money are invested in pension funds etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 29 January, 2016 Share Posted 29 January, 2016 The are quite a few logic gaps in that little tirade. I'm ambivalent about the EU but little Englander rants like this push me into the opposite camp. Adam Posen is an economist talking about the economic impact on Britain if we were to leave. He says nothing about who should be Prime Minister so your reference to the Presidential election is flawed. And here is the other arrogantly superior assessment, that anybody who wishes us to leave is a "little Englander." Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel, eh? Your posts have long ago established you to be in the stay camp, especially your laughable insistence that our trade situation if we left would be similar to that of Norway or Switzerland. If you care to read my post again, this time paying a little more attention, you will see that nowhere did I suggest that Posen said anything about who should be our PM. It was an analogy to ask how he would like it if his English counterpart poked his nose in America's affairs over a similarly important political event that they have to face in the near future and prophesied dire consequences. Adam Posen's opinions on what the effect on our economy would be is just that; an opinion. It is not indisputable fact. There were lots of eminent economists who forecast the dire consequences of us not joining the Eurozone. How wrong were they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solentstars Posted 29 January, 2016 Share Posted 29 January, 2016 He takes the typically arrogant stance of the "stay" brigade. Those who decide to stay will have been those who have enough "common sense" to avoid "shooting themselves in the foot." Those who wish to leave have their own reasons and those should not be dismissed as nonsensical to appease some bloody Yank sticking in his two cents worth. If he has no axe to grind, then why does he bother to attempt to scare-monger our electorate into taking one position over another? Would he like it some British investment broker went on the media to opine that in their Presidential Elections Trump would be the sensible choice for President and that if he were not to be elected, then the USA economy would go into a decline? You also adapt this arrogance by calling the "leave" brigade "dreamers", so it comes as no surprise that his opinions strike a chord with you. I think we should avoid smelling the Yank Starbucks coffee, as they are not helping the British economy by their tax avoidance schemes.it was a american program aimed at a us audience,so no axe to grind as he. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 29 January, 2016 Share Posted 29 January, 2016 (edited) You base your decision on such an important referendum on some posts on a football forum Its a useful barometer, saves time. If I ever find myself on the same side as Wes or someone whose top intellectual putdown is a laughing emoji (every time ) I know Ive made a bad choice. Edited 29 January, 2016 by buctootim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 29 January, 2016 Share Posted 29 January, 2016 I think he is under-estimating us. It can't all be about business, he doesn't mention our public services creaking at the seams or a country without any borders. Ironic really, when Trump is getting all the plaudits in his own country for his opinion on immigration. The financial world hate change. Who's to say we can't have a trading relationship with the EU or anyone else? Our borders won't change one little bit if we left the EU. They'd still be as wide open as they are now. We can trade with anybody we want to, just don't think it's going to be easier outside the EU because it'll be a lot more difficult and expensive than it is now. I really cannot see the slightest advantage in being outside, quite the opposite. Every possible indicator that I can think of is negative. Would somebody who is going to vote 'out' please give me a very simple summary of where the country will be better off in any respect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 29 January, 2016 Share Posted 29 January, 2016 Adam Posen's opinions on what the effect on our economy would be is just that; an opinion. It is not indisputable fact. There were lots of eminent economists who forecast the dire consequences of us not joining the Eurozone. How wrong were they? Not joining the Eurozone is one of the country's greatest missed opportunities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 29 January, 2016 Share Posted 29 January, 2016 I found this about Posen:- He has been the recipient of major research grants from the Centre for International Governance Innovation, the European Commission, the Sloan Foundation, the Ford Foundation, and the German Marshall Fund of the United States. Ah! So no axe to grind about our possible exit from the EU at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 29 January, 2016 Share Posted 29 January, 2016 (edited) And here is the other arrogantly superior assessment, that anybody who wishes us to leave is a "little Englander." Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel, eh?? No its mainly just you Wes. 1 because you think a former Bank of England economist talking on a US tv show about the economic consequences of Britain leaving is "sticking his nose" in "with an axe to grind". 2 Because you think the failure of the UK government to tax 'Yank' Starbucks appropriately is not their fault. 3. Because you think a respected academic receiving research funds from a wide range of independent bodies is somehow compromised by receiving an award from the EU even though UKIP has received far far more for far longer. Edited 29 January, 2016 by buctootim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 29 January, 2016 Share Posted 29 January, 2016 Would somebody who is going to vote 'out' please give me a very simple summary of where the country will be better off in any respect? If you really wanted to know, it is as simple as Googling " reasons to leave the EU" or something similar. You will find many advantages advocated. Unsurprisingly, trade isn't the only consideration. There are issues of immigration controls, sovereignty, ending the subjugation of our legal system, fishery and agricultural advantages, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 29 January, 2016 Share Posted 29 January, 2016 No its mainly just you Wes. 1 because you think a former Bank of England economist talking on a US tv show about the economic consequences of Britain leaving is "sticking his nose" in "with an axe to grind". 2 Because you think the failure of the UK government to tax 'Yank' Starbucks appropriately is not their fault. 3. Because you think a respected academic receiving research funds from a wide range of independent bodies is somehow compromised by receiving an award from the EU even though UKIP has received far far more for far longer. If you believe that an economist receiving a substantial grant from the EU means that he is capable of expressing a totally unbiased view, then bully for you and your naivety. I wonder whether it was made clear on the Yank programme at the outset that the economist expressing those views was in receipt of a substantial grant from the organisation he was championing. Most politicians would have to declare an interest and be unable to vote in such circumstances. The Starbucks thing was a throwaway tongue in cheek connection between the use of the "smell the coffee" american expression and the recent political scandal of such American organisations' tax avoidances. Sorry that you took it to be something more serious. I should have used a , but I know how you despise them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solentstars Posted 29 January, 2016 Share Posted 29 January, 2016 Our borders won't change one little bit if we left the EU. They'd still be as wide open as they are now. We can trade with anybody we want to, just don't think it's going to be easier outside the EU because it'll be a lot more difficult and expensive than it is now. I really cannot see the slightest advantage in being outside, quite the opposite. Every possible indicator that I can think of is negative. Would somebody who is going to vote 'out' please give me a very simple summary of where the country will be better off in any respect?sensible post and i agree i,m still waiting for answers from those voting out for a plan based on reality of how wesurvive when our productivey is already one of the lowest in the eu, and if they think being out will effect imigration coming here they are living in la la land,i can just imagine the french just letting those migrants based at calias straight threw and they would not need to worry about them after a exit. i for one do not want a repeat of black friday and possible collapse of sterling and higher prices based on a make believe idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 29 January, 2016 Share Posted 29 January, 2016 Regardless of whatever anyone thinks, that is scaremongering at its finest solent stars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 29 January, 2016 Share Posted 29 January, 2016 If you really wanted to know, it is as simple as Googling " reasons to leave the EU" or something similar. You will find many advantages advocated. Unsurprisingly, trade isn't the only consideration. There are issues of immigration controls, sovereignty, ending the subjugation of our legal system, fishery and agricultural advantages, etc. I was more interested in those who post on here and what they think would be better outside. From what I can see none of these issues that you list would be significantly different. Immigration controls? The EU citizens would just become 'rest of the world' and we don't stop those at the moment. Sovereignty? We have that at the moment, I don't know what you think will change. Legal system? More to don't with the ECHR than the EU and nobody is talking about leaving that. Fishing and agriculture? We sold all our quotas to Spain and others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 29 January, 2016 Share Posted 29 January, 2016 I was more interested in those who post on here and what they think would be better outside. From what I can see none of these issues that you list would be significantly different. Immigration controls? The EU citizens would just become 'rest of the world' and we don't stop those at the moment. Sovereignty? We have that at the moment, I don't know what you think will change. Legal system? More to don't with the ECHR than the EU and nobody is talking about leaving that. Fishing and agriculture? We sold all our quotas to Spain and others. It would ease downward pressure on wages, pressure on public services and the housing crisis. They are my main reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 29 January, 2016 Share Posted 29 January, 2016 I was more interested in those who post on here and what they think would be better outside. From what I can see none of these issues that you list would be significantly different. Immigration controls? The EU citizens would just become 'rest of the world' and we don't stop those at the moment. Sovereignty? We have that at the moment, I don't know what you think will change. Legal system? More to don't with the ECHR than the EU and nobody is talking about leaving that. Fishing and agriculture? We sold all our quotas to Spain and others. I'm not sure why you're making stuff up. We do stop people from 'the rest of the world' migrating here. We can't stop anyone from within the EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 29 January, 2016 Share Posted 29 January, 2016 I'm not sure why you're making stuff up. We do stop people from 'the rest of the world' migrating here. We can't stop anyone from within the EU. Then why are hundreds of thousands from the rest of the world coming here every year? 93,000 non-EU students a year stay in the UK after completing their courses. I don't make up these figures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 29 January, 2016 Author Share Posted 29 January, 2016 Our borders won't change one little bit if we left the EU. They'd still be as wide open as they are now. We can trade with anybody we want to, just don't think it's going to be easier outside the EU because it'll be a lot more difficult and expensive than it is now. I really cannot see the slightest advantage in being outside, quite the opposite. Every possible indicator that I can think of is negative. Would somebody who is going to vote 'out' please give me a very simple summary of where the country will be better off in any respect? Not sure how our borders will remain the same if we leave the EU and freedom of movement becomes a thing of the past. I'm not against immigration, far from it, but I would like it controlled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 29 January, 2016 Share Posted 29 January, 2016 Not sure how our borders will remain the same if we leave the EU and freedom of movement becomes a thing of the past. I'm not against immigration, far from it, but I would like it controlled. Those who come from the rest of the world tend to come by air, not through the EU. There aren't many who come through the tunnel or on the boats. As for those already here from the EU, and there are of course a lot of them, I can't see any viable means or legality in repatriating them. Im as anti-immigration as the next UKIP leader but I just don't see any desire amongst the politicians to get the numbers reduced by a factor of a hundred or so. We've had several million net immigrants over the past decade or so from both in and out of the EU and nobody did anything about it so I don't see how that is going to change any time soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 29 January, 2016 Share Posted 29 January, 2016 Then why are hundreds of thousands from the rest of the world coming here every year? 93,000 non-EU students a year stay in the UK after completing their courses. I don't make up these figures. So you're saying anyone, from any country can just stroll into the UK currently? Yes or no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 29 January, 2016 Share Posted 29 January, 2016 So you're saying anyone, from any country can just stroll into the UK currently? Yes or no? Er... No I didn't say that. At present hundreds of thousands of people from all over the world seem to have no trouble getting visas and then when they overstay are not deported. There are also millions already here who have arrived from all over the world including the EU. I cannot see that flow being reduced or reversed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 30 January, 2016 Share Posted 30 January, 2016 Immigration controls? The EU citizens would just become 'rest of the world' and we don't stop those at the moment. . So you're saying anyone, from any country can just stroll into the UK currently? Yes or no? Er... No I didn't say that. Think you did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 30 January, 2016 Share Posted 30 January, 2016 I was more interested in those who post on here and what they think would be better outside. From what I can see none of these issues that you list would be significantly different. Immigration controls? The EU citizens would just become 'rest of the world' and we don't stop those at the moment. Sovereignty? We have that at the moment, I don't know what you think will change. Legal system? More to don't with the ECHR than the EU and nobody is talking about leaving that. Fishing and agriculture? We sold all our quotas to Spain and others. So from your perspective there is nothing that can be done to substantially control immigration, regain lost sovereignty, restore the primacy of our own legal system, reclaim our territorial fishing grounds and derive any benefit for our farmers from leaving the CAP? What a defeatist attitude. Thank God that there are those who believe that things can be improved in those areas and have the will to make them happen. Nobody talking about leaving the ECHR? http://www.theguardian.com/law/2015/jun/03/cameron-refuses-to-rule-out-leaving-european-convention-on-human-rights We have lost much sovereignty through successive treaties not agreed by the British electorate. We can regain that lost sovereignty which has been eroded. Whether you believe that immigration controls would work or not depends on the determination of the government to enforce them. But stopping the unfettered freedom of movement between EU states would be a good place to start and that would allow us to take in deserving refugees and migrants who offered skills that we needed instead. Fishing quotas were imposed by the EU. By leaving, we could establish our own territorial waters and determine our own quotas and who is allowed to fish those waters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COMEONYOUREDS Posted 30 January, 2016 Share Posted 30 January, 2016 To be fair Cologne may have been bad but it's nothing compared to the wild west that is Maidstone on a Saturday night. As a west Kent resident, i can confirm Maidstone is a dangerous place to be on a Saturday night, especially now Wonderland is closed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch Posted 30 January, 2016 Share Posted 30 January, 2016 One thing I've learned in my life, most of which is unfortunately behind me, is that the closer you get to polling day the louder the voices of the losers become. And the silent majority remain.......silent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 30 January, 2016 Share Posted 30 January, 2016 Think you did. 'Just stroll in'? I can't recall such words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 30 January, 2016 Share Posted 30 January, 2016 'Just stroll in'? I can't recall such words. Do we or don't we stop people migrating here from other parts of the world? It's a simple enough question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 30 January, 2016 Share Posted 30 January, 2016 Do we or don't we stop people migrating here from other parts of the world? It's a simple enough question. Only simple if you are too think to understand it is not a question that has a binary answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 30 January, 2016 Share Posted 30 January, 2016 Only simple if you are too think to understand it is not a question that has a binary answer. It is quite similar. I can't help if you find it confusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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