EU referendum

[Wes Tender]

Dr Sarah Wollaston MP - Chairman of the Common's Health Select Committee - has decided to adandon the 'Vote Leave' campaign because she can no longer stomach their (oh so prominent) claim that the EU costs us '£350m a week' - money that we can otherwise spend on the NHS quiters say - when clearly that is untrue:

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/09/dr-sarah-wollaston-defects-vote-leave-remain-campaign

 

Apparently she asked herself how could she possibly climb aboard a 'battle bus' that was plastered with such a huge lie? Obviously mysterfied by this unprecedented display of honesty 'Vote Leave' are depicting her decision as "bizarre". I think that if only more of our politicians (from both sides) would show a similar level of respect for the truth and their own integrity then we might have had a better quality debate.

 

Perhaps she ought to leave politics altogether as she seems too naive for it. She doesn't presumably see anything wrong with Osborne or Cameron's lies, some of which I linked to above.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Perhaps she ought to leave politics altogether as she seems too naive for it. She doesn't presumably see anything wrong with Osborne or Cameron's lies, some of which I linked to above.

 

You feel that a concern for the truth is naive?

[ashnats]

can any leavers comment on the suggestions that Boris would end up as PM if we vote leave? is that really the case? of all the scaremongering on all sides, this is the scariest I have heard.

[Whitey Grandad]

can any leavers comment on the suggestions that Boris would end up as PM if we vote leave? is that really the case? of all the scaremongering on all sides, this is the scariest I have heard.

 

I think Cameron is finished whatever the outcome. I can't think of any replacement who isn't scary.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Anybody still interested in the economic impact of our EU departure might want to read this considered analysis of all those controversial HM Treasury, OECD and LSE forecasts warning of the negative impact on our economy. In short, these reports are based on a conservative set of assumptions and may well UNDERESTIMATE just how bad things may become for all of us post Brexit:

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/06/08/uk-economy-would-be-seriously-weakened-by-brexit/

 

And before SWF's version of 'Colonel Blimp' cherps in with the inevitable attempt to play the man rather than the ball, or perhaps imply that the scource is somehow biased yet again, I will point out to him that the Daily Telegraph is hardly a EU funded 'Remain' campaign mouthpiece - far from it - and that Nicolas Stern is a distinguished economist of unimpeachable reputation and experience.

[moonraker]

Anybody still interested in the economic impact of our EU departure might want to read this considered analysis of all those controversial HM Treasury, OECD and LSE forecasts warning of the negative impact on our economy. In short, these reports are based on a conservative set of assumptions and may well UNDERESTIMATE just how bad things may become for all of us post Brexit:

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/06/08/uk-economy-would-be-seriously-weakened-by-brexit/

 

And before SWF's version of 'Colonel Blimp' cherps in with the inevitable attempt to play the man rather than the ball, or perhaps imply that the scource is somehow biased yet again, I will point out to him that the Daily Telegraph is hardly a EU funded 'Remain' campaign mouthpiece - far from it - and that Nicolas Stern is a distinguished economist of unimpeachable reputation and experience.

 

It will not be heeded by those ideolgically oppsosed to the EU, they will ignore "Of course, economic life, trade and investment would go on under Brexit. But the conclusion is that they would be seriously weakened.". Instead they will quote a few odd individuals who have concluded everytning will be OK.

[Wes Tender]

can any leavers comment on the suggestions that Boris would end up as PM if we vote leave? is that really the case? of all the scaremongering on all sides, this is the scariest I have heard.

 

You assume that Cameron would resign in the event of a Brexit, which given his propensity to lie in order to further his position, is not indicative that he would take a principled stance and resign. But if he did, it would be up to the Conservative Party to elect his successor until the next General Election and that situation would be similar to the one whereby we had Brown foisted on us when Blair left. But at least we still retain enough democracy so that the electorate would have the opportunity to choose the party and therefore the PM, which they are not permitted to do in the case of the EU Commissioners. It is a matter of opinion whether Boris would be better or worse than Corbyn as PM. That would be my nightmare scenario.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

It will not be heeded by those ideolgically oppsosed to the EU, they will ignore "Of course, economic life, trade and investment would go on under Brexit. But the conclusion is that they would be seriously weakened.". Instead they will quote a few odd individuals who have concluded everytning will be OK.

 

Yes that is indeed one of the standard 'Leave' campaign tactics.

 

When nearly all economists warn of the dangers here, they will invarably point out that 7 or 8 members of the so-called 'Economists for Brexit' group who disagree. Much the same response is offered in reply to the broad consenus of UK business opinion on this subject.

 

When this type of argument doesn't really work they tend to resort to their secondary default posistion by making accusations of corruption or bias etc rather than attempting to address the issue meaningfully.

[buctootim]

Anybody still interested in the economic impact of our EU departure might want to read this considered analysis of all those controversial HM Treasury, OECD and LSE forecasts warning of the negative impact on our economy. In short, these reports are based on a conservative set of assumptions and may well UNDERESTIMATE just how bad things may become for all of us post Brexit

 

On the other hand you have the report by a 24 year old volunteer teacher who has an Islamic studies degree. So things are pretty even eh Wes?

Edited 9 June, 2016 by buctootim

[Wes Tender]

It will not be heeded by those ideolgically oppsosed to the EU, they will ignore "Of course, economic life, trade and investment would go on under Brexit. But the conclusion is that they would be seriously weakened.". Instead they will quote a few odd individuals who have concluded everytning will be OK.

 

Those who are ideologically opposed to the EU have their own reasons for being so and perfectly entitled to hold those views. I suspect that most of them will consider the economy as being just one factor amongst many that go towards deciding their stance and although the economic repercussions either way are an important factor, they will weigh everything up and draw their own conclusions.

 

The trouble with the Remain campaign, is that there have been so many lies that have been disproved or accepted as gross exaggerations, that their campaign has become known as "Project Fear." The result has been that firstly much of these stories are either cynically dismissed, or taken with a large pinch of salt, or else it has become increasingly difficult to sort the wheat from the chaff, to recognise what is credible and what is not. The two main protagonists of the Remain campaign who ought to have commanded authority and respect are Cameron and Osborne as our PM and Chancellor of the Exchequer, and yet both are seen to have been very economical with the truth and therefore hugely mistrusted by the electorate.

[Whitey Grandad]

You assume that Cameron would resign in the event of a Brexit, which given his propensity to lie in order to further his position, is not indicative that he would take a principled stance and resign. But if he did, it would be up to the Conservative Party to elect his successor until the next General Election and that situation would be similar to the one whereby we had Brown foisted on us when Blair left. But at least we still retain enough democracy so that the electorate would have the opportunity to choose the party and therefore the PM, which they are not permitted to do in the case of the EU Commissioners. It is a matter of opinion whether Boris would be better or worse than Corbyn as PM. That would be my nightmare scenario.

 

The commissioners are chosen by the member governments. Our ministers are chosen by our Prime Minister, whom we also do not choose. We have no say in who is the leader of any of our political parties and the only choice that we have once in 5 years is to tick a box alongside the name of somebody who represents the party that we dislike the least. We have no say in the choice of any of these people.

 

If there is a vote for Brexit then cameron's position would be seriously weakened and his judgement in ever calling a referendum would be severely criticised. We could do without all this unnecessary diversion, it is preventing the government from performing its duties and it is costing the economy an enormous amount of suffering. I would think that the loss of revenue so far would more than pay for next year's EU contribution.

[Wes Tender]

The commissioners are chosen by the member governments. Our ministers are chosen by our Prime Minister, whom we also do not choose. We have no say in who is the leader of any of our political parties and the only choice that we have once in 5 years is to tick a box alongside the name of somebody who represents the party that we dislike the least. We have no say in the choice of any of these people.

 

If there is a vote for Brexit then cameron's position would be seriously weakened and his judgement in ever calling a referendum would be severely criticised. We could do without all this unnecessary diversion, it is preventing the government from performing its duties and it is costing the economy an enormous amount of suffering. I would think that the loss of revenue so far would more than pay for next year's EU contribution.

 

We do actually have a choice in who is our local MP if we wish to vote for a person rather than for a party. The EU Commissioners are indeed chosen by the member Governments and many can be classified as failed politicians like Kinnock, for example, who are allowed onto the EU gravy train for past services rendered. Once there, the electorate cannot remove them.

 

Speaking of cost savings, we could also have saved the £9 million or so of taxpayers' money that the Government spent on pro-Remain propaganda.

 

Cameron's position was already weakened before he even called the referendum, because he was adamant just months before it that he would have campaigned to leave if he did not receive the reforms he deemed to be necessary for us to remain. He assured everybody then that the UK could manage perfectly well out of the EU, and now we are on the verge of a calamity if we left.The public aren't stupid and weren't fooled into believing that those reforms were met, and it all looked a bit reminiscent of when Neville Chamberlain returned clutching his piece of paper. His credibility disappeared some time ago.

 

But this referendum should have been held years ago following Maastricht, so any attendant costs pale into insignificance against the importance of the democratic process which has an imperative to allow the electorate a say on such significant changes to our sovereignty.

[The Cat]

I don't have a clue which way to vote and haven't looked at this thread before. Rather than vacuously basing my choice on which politicians and celebrities I like the most (or dislike the least) I thought I might vote in or out depending on which Saintsweb posters I find the least annoying.

[John B]

I don't have a clue which way to vote and haven't looked at this thread before. Rather than vacuously basing my choice on which politicians and celebrities I like the most (or dislike the least) I thought I might vote in or out depending on which Saintsweb posters I find the least annoying.

 

Why not decide on facts what do you and others think of this

 

http://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/paul-johnson-leavers-may-not-like-economists-but-we-are-right-about-brexit-a3267601.html

[Batman]

Why not decide on facts what do you and others think of this

 

http://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/paul-johnson-leavers-may-not-like-economists-but-we-are-right-about-brexit-a3267601.html

 

they were right about the Euro and fell over themselves to tell us about the 2008 crash

 

couldn't get them out of the paper warning us all

[John B]

they were right about the Euro and fell over themselves to tell us about the 2008 crash

 

couldn't get them out of the paper warning us all

 

I have no idea what you are talking about

 

Are you not worried about your standard of living being reduced and friends and relations losing their jobs?

 

I certainly am

[Batman]

I have no idea what you are talking about

 

Are you not worried about your standard of living being reduced and friends and relations losing their jobs?

 

I certainly am

 

yes, should we stay

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Why not decide on facts what do you and others think of this

 

http://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/paul-johnson-leavers-may-not-like-economists-but-we-are-right-about-brexit-a3267601.html

 

Let's face it, the economic case to stay in the EU (and its vast Single Market) is quite overwhelming and in reality was established some weeks ago. So all that remains now is a short wait to find out what matters most to the British people - their economic welfare or their dislike of immigration.

[Wes Tender]

I've just been reading about the elite Bilderberg Group who are meeting at the moment. The possibility of a Brexit is on their agenda, as well as how they can derail the Trump Presidency from happening. It's really interesting conjecture looking at the list of names of the attendees that there is a potential background here that many of them are acting in concert together to orchestrate the Fear Campaign against Brexit, given that it was them that originally proposed the whole European political Union project.

 

There seems to be quite a correlation between some of their members and the financial and economic organisations that have been attempting to panic the electorate these past few weeks.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/bilderberg-group-meeting-what-is-it-and-who-is-attending-global-elites-a7069561.html

http://journal-neo.org/2016/04/06/bbc-bias-brexit-the-eu-bilderberg-and-global-government/

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/bilderberg-group-2016-meeting-brits_uk_5756d541e4b0411d4de2019e

[aintforever]

Let's face it, the economic case to stay in the EU (and its vast Single Market) is quite overwhelming and in reality was established some weeks ago. So all that remains now is a short wait to find out what matters most to the British people - their economic welfare or their dislike of immigration.

 

Wasn't the economic case for joining the Euro overwhelming? That turned out to be a bullet dodged.

 

I can't see how these expects can make accurate predictions when no one knows what deal we would strike when we leave. I doubt we would leave the single market even if we left the EU.

Edited 9 June, 2016 by aintforever

[badgerx16]

I've just been reading about the elite Bilderberg Group who are meeting at the moment. The possibility of a Brexit is on their agenda, as well as how they can derail the Trump Presidency from happening. It's really interesting conjecture looking at the list of names of the attendees that there is a potential background here that many of them are acting in concert together to orchestrate the Fear Campaign against Brexit, given that it was them that originally proposed the whole European political Union project.

 

There seems to be quite a correlation between some of their members and the financial and economic organisations that have been attempting to panic the electorate these past few weeks.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/bilderberg-group-meeting-what-is-it-and-who-is-attending-global-elites-a7069561.html

http://journal-neo.org/2016/04/06/bbc-bias-brexit-the-eu-bilderberg-and-global-government/

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/bilderberg-group-2016-meeting-brits_uk_5756d541e4b0411d4de2019e

 

But that's the point, we can't go against the will of the Lizard people and their Illuminati lackies.

[buctootim]

But that's the point, we can't go against the will of the Lizard people and their Illuminati lackies.

 

I find it difficult to get going in the morning and don't like cloudy days. I think i might be royalty

[Batman]

Just got ITV on.

 

Awful format. Both sides howling at each other.

[hypochondriac]

Just got ITV on.

 

Awful format. Both sides howling at each other.

The woman in red comes across very well. Angela eagle is embarrassing.

[Batman]

The woman in red comes across very well. Angela eagle is embarrassing.

 

Quite funny the audience laughing and cheering when it is pointed out that "project fear" now suitable for sturgeon

[hypochondriac]

Quite funny the audience laughing and cheering when it is pointed out that "project fear" now suitable for sturgeon

Not sure why they used sturgeon. She's used it as a party political broadcast so far.

[benjii]

I'm watching the debate on delay but it's pretty depressing stuff from the Remain bints so far (why did they choose such an awful bunch of women? Very annoying). Lots of party-political jibes from them and attempts to focus on irrelevant history.

 

Bet Remain wished they had some personable characters on there; not these dry old hags.

[CB Fry]

Wasn't the economic case for joining the Euro overwhelming? .

 

No. It's a lovely myth that gets peddled out but at the time the Chancellor of the Exchequer and by extension the treasury were never convinced, therefore the government weren't convinced and it was never proposed to the country or to parliament.

[Batman]

That Angela woman is terrible

[CB Fry]

That Angela woman is terrible

Odd when clearly they could have got someone with a bit of genuine ability to argue a case - Andy Burnham, Hilary Benn, Alan Johnson, Yvette Cooper, Liz Kendall - there are tons of Labour people infinitely more capable than her. And if they were trying to avoid 'red Tories' then Caroline Lucas from the Greens is always good on TV.

 

Weak from Remain.

 

I liked the Tory woman Rudd though. And Andrea on Leave side was good. Boris was poor again.

[Badger]

That Angela woman is terrible

 

Angela Eagle ? Didn't realise Stuart Ripley had a sex change.

[CB Fry]

For God's sake somebody assassinate Eddie Izzard. Just throw him down a well or something.

[Lord Duckhunter]

For God's sake somebody assassinate Eddie Izzard. Just throw him down a well or something.

 

Let's see more of him .

 

Dennis Skinner comes out for leave .

[badgerx16]

"Wales is just as Euro-sceptic as the rest of England", Nigel Farage

[Lord Duckhunter]

"Wales is just as Euro-sceptic as the rest of England", Nigel Farage

 

Sounded to me like " just as euro -sceptic as England " . But even if he did say what you claim , it would clearly be a slip of the tongue . It was pretty hard to hear him because that complete and utter bell end Izzard kept shouting " immigrant " at him . You've got to laugh at the remain camp .I bet they thought they'd get Nigel on and he'd say something stupid and turn voters off . Problem was , even if he said the moon was made of cheese and the EU run by lizards , it would of paled into insignificance compared to the complete and utter pony Izzard was spouting . **** me , he even looked a right plum , sat in his pink Frank spencer head gear . I bet Remain wished Spencer himself was on rather than him . Remain are going to have to lock him in the cupboard they've got Lord Rose in .

 

A good day for leave . Skinner & Mann coming out for them , poor from the remain women and then Izzard .

Edited 10 June, 2016 by Lord Duckhunter

[badgerx16]

Sounded to me like " just as euro -sceptic as England " . But even if he did say what you claim , it would clearly be a slip of the tongue . It was pretty hard to hear him because that complete and utter bell end Izzard kept shouting " immigrant " at him . You've got to laugh at the remain camp .I bet they thought they'd get Nigel on and he'd say something stupid and turn voters off . Problem was , even if he said the moon was made of cheese and the EU run by lizards , it would of paled into insignificance compared to the complete and utter pony Izzard was spouting . **** me , he even looked a right plum , sat in his pink Frank spencer head gear . I bet Remain wished Spencer himself was on rather than him . Remain are going to have to lock him in the cupboard they've got Lord Rose in .

 

A good day for leave . Skinner & Mann coming out for them , poor from the remain women and then Izzard .

 

Unfortunately Eddie Izzard let himself down with his badgering of Farage, because somewhere hidden amongst the persistent 'immigrant' taunts, and his being dragged down to the childish playground level of 'debate' that has dominated every QT during the campaign, was some very intelligent stuff.

[Fatboy40]

The woman in red comes across very well. Angela eagle is embarrassing.

 

The woman in red is Andrea Leadsom, since seeing her on Newsnight a few weeks ago I've been keeping an eye on her.

 

She presents very well... she knows the perfect sounds bites e.g. Mum rather than Mother, keeps calm under attack, and appears to be always aware of where the live cameras are for best effect (for example last night most of her talking was aimed at the camera rather than the audience, why aim your reply at the audience of maybe a few hundred when a few million may be watching at home).

 

She does have a few skeletons in the cupboard though, being involved in finance she's played the game, but if Vote Leave win's and Dave goes / there's a reshuffle I can see her getting a more senior front bench position.

Edited 10 June, 2016 by Fatboy40

[Fatboy40]

Not sure why they used sturgeon. She's used it as a party political broadcast so far.

 

I can see why she's there, yes she has her own agenda but she's unflappable and professional politician who can hold an argument without resorting to name calling.

 

What I found most interesting was that none of the Remain big guns were there, I can only take that as they didn't want to bee seen directly attacking Boris face to face in public to protect their futures no matter what the outcome of the referendum.

[Wes Tender]

The woman in red is Andrea Leadsom, since seeing her on Newsnight a few weeks ago I've been keeping an eye on her.

 

She presents very well... she knows the perfect sounds bites e.g. Mum rather than Mother, keeps calm under attack, and appears to be always aware of where the live cameras are for best effect (for example last night most of her talking was aimed at the camera rather than the audience, why aim your reply at the audience of maybe a few hundred when a few million may be watching at home).

 

She does have a few skeletons in the cupboard though, being involved in finance she's played the game, but if Vote Leave win's and Dave goes / there's a reshuffle I can see her getting a more senior front bench position.

 

She came across as very impressive as did Gisela Stuart. Team Leave came across better to the studio and TV audiences because they left out Party politics and spoke well together on the issues, rather than their three opponents, whose Party allegiances were all too obvious, because they spent much of their time indulging themselves in petty political point-scoring. I think that both Andrea and Gisela could be seen as serious prospective leaders of their Parties, or at the very least, candidates for much higher positions than they currently hold.

 

All in all, not a bad night for Brexit, as they also fared quite well on QT. Please can we have much more of Eddie Izzard featuring for Remain? He will do the Brexit vote no end of good. I realise that he is a comedian, but last night he was more of a clown. It must have taken some serious annoyance of the audience to cause them to shout at a speaker to shut up.

[Fatboy40]

I think that both Andrea and Gisela could be seen as serious prospective leaders of their Parties, or at the very least, candidates for much higher positions than they currently hold.

 

Agreed, they both rose to the occasion, a big positive to take from last night for both of the main parties.

[Badger]

She came across as very impressive as did Gisela Stuart.... I think that both Andrea and Gisela could be seen as serious prospective leaders of their Parties, or at the very least, candidates for much higher positions than they currently hold.

 

 

Yes - impressed by the presentation of both last night, certainly for more senior roles rather than the leadership of their parties.

 

Stugeon always puts forward her case fully, and in many ways you wish you had someone like her arguing on yopur side. Shame that I just can't agree with much that comes out of her mouth.

 

I can see why she's there, yes she has her own agenda but she's unflappable and professional politician who can hold an argument without resorting to name calling.

 

What I found most interesting was that none of the Remain big guns were there, I can only take that as they didn't want to bee seen directly attacking Boris face to face in public to protect their futures no matter what the outcome of the referendum.

 

No 'heavyweights' from the opposition to face up to him then ?

[Batman]

Just seen QT from last night

 

Izzard is a gift that keeps on giving for those who want to leave.

what an imbecile.

 

again, feel BREXIT had the better of it

Edited 10 June, 2016 by Batman

[Wes Tender]

Yes - impressed by the presentation of both last night, certainly for more senior roles rather than the leadership of their parties.

 

Sturgeon always puts forward her case fully, and in many ways you wish you had someone like her arguing on your side. Shame that I just can't agree with much that comes out of her mouth.

 

No 'heavyweights' from the opposition to face up to him then ?

 

All of a sudden there appears to be a plethora of talented women politicians who could rise to the very top of British politics. Ruth Davidson is another who has come to prominence during the previous referendum on Scottish Independence and she is one who can hold her own against Sturgeon. Osborne flatteringly tipped her as a future PM. A pity that she isn't pro-Brexit, but a good thing that she wasn't there on the platform rather than Sturgeon.

 

Yes, it was interesting that none of the big guns from Remain were there, but their big guns are Cameron and Osborne, Corbyn or Alan Johnson. I can understand that Cameron and Osborne avoided the Blue on Blue fight, but a bit surprising that neither Corbyn or Johnson were up for it. But as was demonstrated last night by Stuart and Leadsom, in some instances the debate would be better served by somebody lesser known, but really competent. The three Remain ladies came across as being too combative and strident, whereas the two on the Brexit side were calmer, more measured and therefore gave the impression that their views were more reasonable. It hasn't done the Brexit campaign any harm to demonstrate that there are these talented alternatives in their ranks and that they are capable of equally forceful fire-power besides that from the bigger guns.

[Fatboy40]

... it was interesting that none of the big guns from Remain were there, but their big guns are Cameron and Osborne, Corbyn or Alan Johnson...

 

... who other than Johnson really don't know how to relate to 'the people' and aim a conversation at them.

 

I get the sense that In / Remain tried to aim for a certain tone in the programme, but it back fired terribly.

[Batman]

Just watching farage debating in a student union and he is winning them over. Very good performance

[Lord Duckhunter]

Contrast Izzard's lunacy & the remain fish wives attacks on Boris with Martin Lewis on This Week. Summarised, there are no facts , you have to weigh up risk, his personal opinion was the risk was 55%-45% in favour of staying but as with any risk the rewards could well be higher if we take the ," riskier" option , in 20 years we could have a booming tiger economy . but, personally he was voting remain . Said he would not campaign or advise others and was disappointed his quotes were taken out of context by remain.

 

The weighing up risk and taking time to consider a close call struck me as exactly the line Cameron should have taken. I'm sure had he acted more statesmanlike, conceded that in some cases leave were right, but overall he was advising staying in , they'd have won pretty easily. They still may win but he's damaged himself, the party and still won't have settled the issue .

[derry]

I don't get the leave side letting Eagle get away with the comment about 90% of economists supporting remain which isn't true. In fact 4000ish were polled, only 600 responded of which 90% supported remain. An entirely different scenario altogether. Only 15% of economists polled supported remain.

 

There was also the myth of the 500m EU being the biggest single market, China is about 2b and India 1m. In 1973 the 8 EEC members accounted for 31% of the worlds output, today the EU 28 account for just 17%. In 1973 we exported 36% to 11 EEC countries, last year we exported 36% to the same 11 and only 10% to the remaining 17.

[badgerx16]

I don't get the leave side letting Eagle get away with the comment about 90% of economists supporting remain which isn't true. In fact 4000ish were polled, only 600 responded of which 90% supported remain. An entirely different scenario altogether. Only 15% of economists polled supported remain.

 

Watch any TV advert that claims "X% of people would recommend this product" - that seems to be the way that statistics are used. Similarly with 'majorities' in strike ballots, and claiming the Tories are in Government because the majority voted for them. ( Or that we pay £350m a week into the EU ).

[Lord Duckhunter]

and claiming the Tories are in Government because the majority voted for them. .

 

Who claims that then ? They have a majority of MP's but I have never heard any Tory claim the majority voted for them .

[Wes Tender]

Newsnight was very interesting tonight. Journalists from the Economist and the Times, both gave credence to the way that the campaign seemed to be swinging towards a Brexit. They were baffled about whether two polls which gave Leave a 10% lead could be accurate or not. They then went on to discuss the two sides of the campaign and admitted the possibility that the negative Fear Campaign could be backfiring. Also the possibility that the leaders of the Leave campaign were proving to be toxic, especially Cameron, but also the intervention of Obama. These are very positive signs from a normally pretty biased BBC current affairs programme that there are real concerns amongst the Remain camp that there could develop some momentum to Leave and they seemed to be a bit baffled about how to turn it around.

 

And then just to add a further boost to Brexit, Newsnight reported that it transpires that there might have even been some justification in Farage's concerns that sexual assaults by young immigrant males from the Middle East which had happened in Germany and Sweden, could occur here. He was vilified for suggesting that scenario in the TV debate mid-week, but it seems that the sons of some Syrian refugee families who have been allowed here under special dispensation by the Government, have committed sexual assaults on some 14 year old girls. Oops.

 

In further matters that suggest that there is some desperation from the Remain campaign, there have been incidences where accusations of bias or skullduggery could be levied. A Tory MP, Sarah Wollaston, switches allegiance from the Leave campaign to the Remain side, headline news in the media and the BBC and ITV News. Reports exaggerate her prominence as an MP and there are accusations that the whole thing was planned, that she was a plant in the Leave Camp. Three other MPs announce that they are joining the Brexit camp and hardly a dicky-bird in the media at all.

 

Then there is the incident whereby voters too lazy to register until the 11th hour, find that the website has crashed, so they are given two extra days to do it. Why can't they be given just the couple of hours that the website had been down? Then there is the question of Ballot papers. In Bristol, letters sent to their electorate showed the pencil poised over the Remain Box. Why wasn't it poised over the Leave Box? Also, there have been many reports of Ballot papers having been sent to people who are not registered to vote. How widespread is that?