Whitey Grandad Posted 28 May, 2016 Posted 28 May, 2016 Even if the law is being broken doesn't mean it's not happening. You can't blame the EU if someone is breaking the law.
Sour Mash Posted 28 May, 2016 Posted 28 May, 2016 What if they "provide" private rented accommodation. Which is happening. Sub-let rooms, houses out He doesn't live in or understand the real world, so you're wasting your time.
CB Fry Posted 28 May, 2016 Posted 28 May, 2016 A leave vote will stop it in time. A remain vote never will. Why would it stop it? Free market deregulation and binning of horrible old red tape plus "looking beyond old Europe and trading with the whole world instead which the Germans are definitely stopping us doing or something" (etc etc) do not create the conditions to stop it. Boris or any future Tory or Labour government will not stop it. It won't stop. Sorry and that.
Sour Mash Posted 28 May, 2016 Posted 28 May, 2016 You can't blame the EU if someone is breaking the law. You can blame the EU if it allows in hundreds of thousands of cheap labour that will happily to that to undercut British labour.
Whitey Grandad Posted 28 May, 2016 Posted 28 May, 2016 You can blame the EU if it allows in hundreds of thousands of cheap labour that will happily to that to undercut British labour. And what about all those from the rest of the world?
Sour Mash Posted 28 May, 2016 Posted 28 May, 2016 And what about all those from the rest of the world? Only an issue with those from the EU. Go to a building site in the South/East of England. Romanian, Bulgarians etc.
buctootim Posted 28 May, 2016 Posted 28 May, 2016 You can blame the EU if it allows in hundreds of thousands of cheap labour that will happily to that to undercut British labour. The EU migrants average wage is higher than the average UK born wage. Pakistani and Bangladeshi born is much lower. hth.
Sour Mash Posted 28 May, 2016 Posted 28 May, 2016 The EU migrants average wage is higher than the average UK born wage. Pakistani and Bangladeshi born is much lower. hth. It doesn't really "HTH", you've missed the point being discussed as usual.
buctootim Posted 28 May, 2016 Posted 28 May, 2016 It doesn't really "HTH", you've missed the point being discussed as usual. Really? Im so sorry, do explain. I thought you were saying the EU was the primary source of cheap labour undercutting UK wages when in fact its Pakistan and Bangladesh. What were you actually claiming? I'll dig out the facts to prove that wrong too.
Sour Mash Posted 28 May, 2016 Posted 28 May, 2016 Really? Im so sorry, do explain. I thought you were saying the EU was the primary source of cheap labour undercutting UK wages when in fact its Pakistan and Bangladesh. What were you actually claiming? I'll dig out the facts to prove that wrong too. I'm not hear to explain easy to understand conversations to you, take your own time to read through it.
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 28 May, 2016 Posted 28 May, 2016 He doesn't live in or understand the real world, so you're wasting your time. Well my world does seem real enough to me. But as you keep dropping heavy hints on here that somehow only you are in touch with reality perhaps you would specify where this veritable hell-hole you in live is? Hedge End is it?
buctootim Posted 28 May, 2016 Posted 28 May, 2016 I'm not hear to explain easy to understand conversations to you, take your own time to read through it. I'll mark you down as ****wit on that one then.
Wade Garrett Posted 28 May, 2016 Author Posted 28 May, 2016 Why would it stop it? Free market deregulation and binning of horrible old red tape plus "looking beyond old Europe and trading with the whole world instead which the Germans are definitely stopping us doing or something" (etc etc) do not create the conditions to stop it. Boris or any future Tory or Labour government will not stop it. It won't stop. Sorry and that. Why is it difficult to understand that our lack of control over EU immigration will cease with a leave result?
buctootim Posted 28 May, 2016 Posted 28 May, 2016 perhaps you would specify where this veritable hell-hole you in live is? Hedge End is it? .
buctootim Posted 28 May, 2016 Posted 28 May, 2016 Why is it difficult to understand that our lack of control over EU immigration will cease with a leave result? Its not hard to understand. The point is that having control over non EU immigration doesn't result in lower numbers.
Sour Mash Posted 28 May, 2016 Posted 28 May, 2016 Well my world does seem real enough to me. But as you keep dropping heavy hints on here that somehow only you are in touch with reality perhaps you would specify where this veritable hell-hole you in live is? Hedge End is it? But why don't they pay these people the legal amount? I don't understand? What is this cash in hand they're talking about, I just don't understand why anyone hasn't told Revenue and Customs about whats going on
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 28 May, 2016 Posted 28 May, 2016 But why don't they pay these people the legal amount? I don't understand? What is this cash in hand they're talking about, I just don't understand why anyone hasn't told Revenue and Customs about whats going on Chandlers Ford then?
CB Fry Posted 28 May, 2016 Posted 28 May, 2016 Why is it difficult to understand that our lack of control over EU immigration will cease with a leave result? Let's see who the real winners are post-Brexit. Will it be big corporations, big finance and big internationalist governments, or will it be the old lady complaining about where have all these Polish shops come from. I know the answer to that question. The economy will take in who it needs. Boris won't be stopping anything. He's going to be Prime Minister, you know.
badgerx16 Posted 28 May, 2016 Posted 28 May, 2016 Why is it difficult to understand that our lack of control over EU immigration will cease with a leave result? If the EU maintains the same position with a 'Brexit'ed UK as it does with other peripheral countries we would not have control over EU immigration, as has been mentioned several times. Where is the evidence from the Brexit campaign that we would be guaranteed to be treated differently to the EEA countries ?
CB Fry Posted 28 May, 2016 Posted 28 May, 2016 If the EU maintains the same position with a 'Brexit'ed UK as it does with other peripheral countries we would not have control over EU immigration, as has been mentioned several times. Where is the evidence from the Brexit campaign that we would be guaranteed to be treated differently to the EEA countries ? ....something about German car makers banging on Angela Merkel's door.
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 28 May, 2016 Posted 28 May, 2016 If the EU maintains the same position with a 'Brexit'ed UK as it does with other peripheral countries we would not have control over EU immigration, as has been mentioned several times. Where is the evidence from the Brexit campaign that we would be guaranteed to be treated differently to the EEA countries ? Well apparently Johnny Foreigner has to dance to our tune because 15% of their export trade comes to us while a mere 45% of our export trade goes to them. Therefore clearly we hold the balance of power in this relationship so they can go and do one ... or something like that.
hutch Posted 29 May, 2016 Posted 29 May, 2016 The point is that having control over non EU immigration doesn't result in lower numbers. Is this another one of those special "facts" that only you and CBFry together manage to unearth. Because it looks to me like more opinionated guesswork.
John B Posted 29 May, 2016 Posted 29 May, 2016 Spoke to my uncle last week. The site he was working on employed a load of Romanians, and paid them in their own country's currency. Equivalent of £300 per month. Now you tell me that won't affect opportunities for our youngsters in the future. Bloody disgrace. I fully expect the ostrich brigade to defend it. How do these people live how do they pay for stuff like clothing food beer toilet paper etc What happens if they are sick do they go to doctors at least they wont be getting any benefits. But I do agree with your general point that there are employers taking advantage of foreign labour not only from the EU but also from the elsewhere in the world. This was something highlighted by Ed Miliband last year but the Tories have reduced the number of employees in HMRC to check that people are being paid the minimum wage. Unless it is stopped it will still happen even if we leave the EU it will still happen as we will still have high levels of immigration for very menial jobs I doubt many would like to pick fruit and vegetables and wipe old folks bums.
Wade Garrett Posted 29 May, 2016 Author Posted 29 May, 2016 Some people would argue black is white. Ostriches out in force. I'm not against immigration, although some would like to say Leave campaigners are, I am against uncontrolled immigration.
Wade Garrett Posted 29 May, 2016 Author Posted 29 May, 2016 How do these people live how do they pay for stuff like clothing food beer toilet paper etc What happens if they are sick do they go to doctors at least they wont be getting any benefits. But I do agree with your general point that there are employers taking advantage of foreign labour not only from the EU but also from the elsewhere in the world. This was something highlighted by Ed Miliband last year but the Tories have reduced the number of employees in HMRC to check that people are being paid the minimum wage. Unless it is stopped it will still happen even if we leave the EU it will still happen as we will still have high levels of immigration for very menial jobs I doubt many would like to pick fruit and vegetables and wipe old folks bums. I agree the whole problem won't disappear, but restrictions on freedom of movement within the EU will have an effect.
CB Fry Posted 29 May, 2016 Posted 29 May, 2016 Blair absolutely smashing it on Marr this morning, on all topics. Great to see.
buctootim Posted 29 May, 2016 Posted 29 May, 2016 (edited) Is this another one of those special "facts" that only you and CBFry together manage to unearth. Because it looks to me like more opinionated guesswork. They might seem special to you, I empathise. To others they are government figures published widely. Despite the Tories 2010 pledge to reduce net immigration to tens of thousands non EU immigration (the bit we've got control of - the issue we're all voting on) is not only is higher than EU immigration but has been rising since 2012. Our super tough government with its super tough entry system allows in more people from the other side of the world than come from our near neighbours - people who could wake up one morning, decide to come and be here by lunchtime. This is the government Brexiteers think are going to reduce immigration if we vote leave. Edited 29 May, 2016 by buctootim
derry Posted 29 May, 2016 Posted 29 May, 2016 That sanctimonious duplicitous Blair doing the rounds of TV putting more voters into the Leave camp.
Lord Duckhunter Posted 29 May, 2016 Posted 29 May, 2016 (edited) They might seem special to you, I empathise. To others they are government figures published widely. Despite the Tories 2010 pledge to reduce net immigration to tens of thousands non EU immigration (the bit we've got control of - the issue we're all voting on) is not only is higher than EU immigration but has been rising since 2012. Our super tough government with its super tough entry system allows in more people from the other side of the world than come from our near neighbours - people who could wake up one morning, decide to come and be here by lunchtime. This is the government Brexiteers think are going to reduce immigration if we vote leave. You really don't get it do you ? The people will decide whether this Government pay a price for failing to control its area of immigration . If , through incompetence , it allows 1mil non eu migrants in a year , we can kick them out . Who do we kick out if 1mil eu citizens arrive ? Where do you get the idea Tories are tough on immigration ? Tories always talk tough on immigration , but the realility is they are as enthusiastic as labour are . Big business love migrants because they drive down wage costs . Government loves migrants because it fills gaps in our education and props up our services . It's much easier to get midwives & nurses from around the world than to train and pay our own people properly. I've yet to see any government seriously try and control immigration , labour or Tory . The only dips in immigration happen when our country is unattractive to immigrants and on its downers . It has nothing to do with policy or will . They just won't admit it to us plebs. "Super tough" lol Edited 29 May, 2016 by Lord Duckhunter
buctootim Posted 29 May, 2016 Posted 29 May, 2016 You really don't get it do you ? The people will decide whether this Government pay a price for failing to control its area of immigration . If , through incompetence , it allows 1mil non eu migrants in a year , we can kick them out . Who do we kick out if 1mil eu citizens arrive ? Where do you get the idea Tories are tough on immigration ? Tories always talk tough on immigration , but the realility is they are as enthusiastic as labour are . Big business love migrants because they drive down wage costs . Government loves migrants because it fills gaps in our education and props up our services . It's much easier to get midwives & nurses from around the world than to train and pay our own people properly. I've yet to see any government seriously try and control immigration , labour or Tory . The only dips in immigration happen when our country is unattractive to immigrants and on its downers . It has nothing to do with policy or will . They just won't admit it to us plebs. "Super tough" lol You really dont get it do you. The Brexiteers are asking people to vote to leave the EU and all the economic loss that will entail so that we can control our borders and reduce immigration. People are entitled to ask "okay so what are the government doing now to reduce immigration from outside the EU. They promised in 2010 to reduce it so obviously its going down right?" Why would anybody vote to take the economic hit when the supposed benefit is never going to materialise?
CB Fry Posted 29 May, 2016 Posted 29 May, 2016 You really don't get it do you ? The people will decide whether this Government pay a price for failing to control its area of immigration . If , through incompetence , it allows 1mil non eu migrants in a year , we can kick them out . Who do we kick out if 1mil eu citizens arrive ? Where do you get the idea Tories are tough on immigration ? Tories always talk tough on immigration , but the realility is they are as enthusiastic as labour are . Big business love migrants because they drive down wage costs . Government loves migrants because it fills gaps in our education and props up our services . It's much easier to get midwives & nurses from around the world than to train and pay our own people properly. I've yet to see any government seriously try and control immigration , labour or Tory . The only dips in immigration happen when our country is unattractive to immigrants and on its downers . It has nothing to do with policy or will . They just won't admit it to us plebs. "Super tough" lol I think you and Tim are basically saying exactly the same thing. If the Tories can't stop it, and Labour can't stop it and big business and the civil service have no desire to stop it, I do fear for your little stubby pencil at the general election following Brexit.
Wade Garrett Posted 29 May, 2016 Author Posted 29 May, 2016 The idea that any government will have a virtual open door policy to EU immigration if we vote leave is laughable. They wouldn't last 5 minutes, which is rather the point. The return of democracy. Don't like 'em, vote 'em out.
Lord Duckhunter Posted 29 May, 2016 Posted 29 May, 2016 You really dont get it do you. The Brexiteers are asking people to vote to leave the EU and all the economic loss that will entail so that we can control our borders and reduce immigration. It's not about reducing immigration , it's about who decides our immigration policy . Questions on the Tory record on immigration is for a general election . Your line seems to be that because the Tories have lashed it up , we should let other nations dictate OUR immigration policy . If they can't run the NHS , should we hand that over to the French to run for us ?
buctootim Posted 29 May, 2016 Posted 29 May, 2016 (edited) It's not about reducing immigration , it's about who decides our immigration policy . Do the exit camp know that? Its not what they've been saying. You sure its not a Monty Python sketch about fighting for the right to have babies? Questions on the Tory record on immigration is for a general election . Your line seems to be that because the Tories have lashed it up , we should let other nations dictate OUR immigration policy . If they can't run the NHS , should we hand that over to the French to run for us ? Its not about the Tories. None of the major parties will reduce immigration so your point about voting them out is moot. UKIP arent electable and Im not sure they would stick to their pledge even if they were elected. ... Edited 29 May, 2016 by buctootim
badgerx16 Posted 29 May, 2016 Posted 29 May, 2016 The only dips in immigration happen when our country is unattractive to immigrants and on its downers . So that would be post Brexit then ?
CB Fry Posted 29 May, 2016 Posted 29 May, 2016 The idea that any government will have a virtual open door policy to EU immigration if we vote leave is laughable. They wouldn't last 5 minutes, which is rather the point. The return of democracy. Don't like 'em, vote 'em out. Post-Brexit you are going to be absolutely broken hearted. Boris will sign up to free movement of people in a heart beat to get us back in the common market. And try five years, not five minutes, at which point your choice will be more Boris, or Labour. Best of luck. Best of luck.
Lord Duckhunter Posted 29 May, 2016 Posted 29 May, 2016 Post-Brexit you are going to be absolutely broken hearted. Boris will sign up to free movement of people in a heart beat to get us back in the common market. And try five years, not five minutes, at which point your choice will be more Boris, or Labour. Best of luck. Best of luck. There isn't a common market to join.
CB Fry Posted 29 May, 2016 Posted 29 May, 2016 There isn't a common market to join. Single market. As you know.
Wade Garrett Posted 29 May, 2016 Author Posted 29 May, 2016 Post-Brexit you are going to be absolutely broken hearted. Boris will sign up to free movement of people in a heart beat to get us back in the common market. And try five years, not five minutes, at which point your choice will be more Boris, or Labour. Best of luck. Best of luck. Absolute bullsh*t.
buctootim Posted 29 May, 2016 Posted 29 May, 2016 Absolute bullsh*t. Boris Johnson has declared that he is probably the only politician in Britain willing to “stand up and say” that they are pro-immigration. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/10404421/Boris-I-am-the-only-British-politician-who-will-admit-to-being-pro-immigration.html
TopGun Posted 29 May, 2016 Posted 29 May, 2016 Brexit is a busted flush. Just a rabble of oddballs all shouting to the media with no coordination. The media reports it but there is no organised message. Remain is far more controlled by coordinating its media statements in a mannerly order day by day.
Wade Garrett Posted 30 May, 2016 Author Posted 30 May, 2016 Boris Johnson has declared that he is probably the only politician in Britain willing to “stand up and say” that they are pro-immigration. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/10404421/Boris-I-am-the-only-British-politician-who-will-admit-to-being-pro-immigration.html So is your assertion that the Leave campaign is an anti-immigration one? Again, absolute bullsh*t.
CB Fry Posted 30 May, 2016 Posted 30 May, 2016 So is your assertion that the Leave campaign is an anti-immigration one? Again, absolute bullsh*t. No idea how you arrived at that. The people at the top, post Brexit, will be really rather pro immigration. Very pro immigration. Wait and see. #heartbreak #buttheypromised #buttheypromised #theypromised
Wade Garrett Posted 30 May, 2016 Author Posted 30 May, 2016 No idea how you arrived at that. The people at the top, post Brexit, will be really rather pro immigration. Very pro immigration. Wait and see. #heartbreak #buttheypromised #buttheypromised #theypromised That is absolutely fine by me. Why heartbreak? I'm all for immigration, but only immigration that benefits the country and is controlled. This isn't just about immigration though is it. That's just one issue. It's also about democracy, a sovereign parliament that is accountable to the electorate. The political EU experiment is doomed to fail at some point, just like the Euro. It should be about friendly nation states on the continent trading freely with each other. Not being dictated to by a central beaurocracy.
CB Fry Posted 30 May, 2016 Posted 30 May, 2016 That is absolutely fine by me. Why heartbreak? I'm all for immigration, but only immigration that benefits the country and is controlled. This isn't just about immigration though is it. That's just one issue. It's also about democracy, a sovereign parliament that is accountable to the electorate. The political EU experiment is doomed to fail at some point, just like the Euro. It should be about friendly nation states on the continent trading freely with each other. Not being dictated to by a central beaurocracy. And weve arrived at "Dictated to" and "sovereignty". Didn't take long. Bless you.
Matty's Caddy Posted 30 May, 2016 Posted 30 May, 2016 Brexit is a busted flush. Just a rabble of oddballs all shouting to the media with no coordination. The media reports it but there is no organised message. Remain is far more controlled by coordinating its media statements in a mannerly order day by day. Media statements ie propaganda, mid- information and scaremongering
Minsk Posted 30 May, 2016 Posted 30 May, 2016 Brexit is a busted flush. Seems like just a rabble of oddballs all shouting to the media with no coordination. The media reports it but there is no organised message. Remain is controlling and coordinating the media day by day. Indeed they are.
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