EU referendum

[buctootim]

The more important figure is how many peoples livelihoods are to some degree directly attributable to their employers ability to access the single market. There are businesses and businesses, the vast majority of SME’s, sole traders, etc. exist to serve local needs. The single biggest complaint of these entities is EU red tape and employment law. If we dismiss the truly fanciful Euromyths that Eurosceptics use to deliberately mislead the public e.g. straight bananas, the two areas I see most commonly sited as over burdensome are: employment law and product labelling. If one cared to actually research and understand the background and rationale for most of these directives they are based on sound reasoning, broad consultation and a desire to improve peoples lives and better inform, something I am sure leave supporters would still wish for. In fact in the case of employment law it is often sited that UK employment law is far more favourable for employers than many other parts of the EU. So I am truly interested to know what will actually change if we leave the EU and how would improve our lives

 

I don't know either - but its certain that if we were to leave then EU wide regulations would be replaced with British ones. I suspect that for most there would be no difference and for many changing from a single EU wide standard to differing UK and EU standards would be more onerous and time consuming.

 

What is portrayed as red tape is usually consumer protection - food safety, car standards, electrical goods safety and performance. Some companies might not be happy we have those standards - they want to palm off the shoddiest crap they can, without a guarantee period, but I am.

[hutch]

So I am truly interested to know what will actually change if we leave the EU and how would improve our lives

There you go, you got there in the end.

 

Now you know how to vote.

[derry]

For me it's about who is accountable, who makes the laws, who commands the military, who controls our borders. Work permits needed for all intending to come here to work. I'm fed up to the back teeth with the lying mealy mouthed politicians and any hangers on they can recruit trying to frighten me. I back Britain not the EU. I have no wish to be a citizen of the EU. This country is no country at all inside the EU. All decisions relating to this country should made here and be final and binding.

[Whitey Grandad]

The more important figure is how many peoples livelihoods are to some degree directly attributable to their employers ability to access the single market. There are businesses and businesses, the vast majority of SME’s, sole traders, etc. exist to serve local needs. The single biggest complaint of these entities is EU red tape and employment law. If we dismiss the truly fanciful Euromyths that Eurosceptics use to deliberately mislead the public e.g. straight bananas, the two areas I see most commonly sited as over burdensome are: employment law and product labelling. If one cared to actually research and understand the background and rationale for most of these directives they are based on sound reasoning, broad consultation and a desire to improve peoples lives and better inform, something I am sure leave supporters would still wish for. In fact in the case of employment law it is often sited that UK employment law is far more favourable for employers than many other parts of the EU. So I am truly interested to know what will actually change if we leave the EU and how would it improve our lives

 

All products need labelling, and this should be clear and unmistakeable. I see no problem with that and it doesn't actually cost anything.

[derry]

In 1973 we exported 36% to the 11 other EEC countries, last year we exported 36% to the same countries. By my reckoning that means only 10% to the remaining 16 countries. Exports to the EU are in decline year on year. Seems like a good time to get out.

[Whitey Grandad]

In 1973 we exported 36% to the 11 other EEC countries, last year we exported 36% to the same countries. By my reckoning that means only 10% to the remaining 16 countries. Exports to the EU are in decline year on year. Seems like a good time to get out.

 

There's no logic in that. Do you want them to decline even more? You do realise that there is no chance of us getting back to the situation that existed in 1973?

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

For me it's about who is accountable, who makes the laws, who commands the military, who controls our borders. Work permits needed for all intending to come here to work. I'm fed up to the back teeth with the lying mealy mouthed politicians and any hangers on they can recruit trying to frighten me. I back Britain not the EU. I have no wish to be a citizen of the EU. This country is no country at all inside the EU. All decisions relating to this country should made here and be final and binding.

 

You are 'backing Britain' while using a image of a foreign invester in the UK as your avatar?

 

I see ...

[Wes Tender]

You are 'backing Britain' while using a image of a foreign invester in the UK as your avatar?

 

I see ...

 

Yes, and one not even from an EU state. But then many British football clubs are owned by foreigners from Countries not in the EU, like Russia, Thailand, America for example.

 

What point are you trying to make?

[Guan 2.0]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36379934

 

 

EU referendum: White 'thug' poster aimed at black voters

It features "an elderly Asian British woman being berated by an aggressive thug", according to Operation Black Vote's description.

 

The campaign says it is meant to show everyone has the same voting power.

 

But UKIP leader Nigel Farage described it as a "disgusting" example of "sectarian politics".

 

And he accused Operation Black Vote, who he said he had previously supported, of "trying to divide society". "I want to engage people in all communities to get involved in our democracy but I'm afraid this poster is a really big mistake," he said

[derry]

You are 'backing Britain' while using a image of a foreign invester in the UK as your avatar?

 

I see ...

 

Out of respect for the man who saved our football club who tragically died before he had a chance to enjoy it. I won't be changing it.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Yes, and one not even from an EU state. But then many British football clubs are owned by foreigners from Countries not in the EU, like Russia, Thailand, America for example.

 

What point are you trying to make?

 

It's pretty obvious is it not.

 

Some on here - like you for instance - seem to want foreigners to mind their "damn" business. Except that is when they are putting their money into struggeling British football clubs they happen to support when they suddenly become very welcome.

 

Oh and I think you will find that Marcus Liebherr was a Swiss citizen of German descent and that some of his various business interests are based in Germany.

[Guan 2.0]

It's pretty obvious is it not.

 

Some on here - like you for instance - seem to want foreigners to mind their "damn" business. Except that is when they are putting their money into struggeling British football clubs they happen to support when they suddenly become very welcome.

 

Oh and I think you will find that Marcus Liebherr was a Swiss citizen of German descent and that some of his various business interests are based in Germany.

 

I was under the impression that the Referendum didn't concern the banning of foreign investment?

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

I was under the impression that the Referendum didn't concern the banning of foreign investment?

 

You feel that xenophobia plays not part in the Brexit movement?

[Guan 2.0]

I was under the impression that the Referendum didn't concern the banning of foreign investment?

 

You feel that xenophobia plays not part in the Brexit movement?

 

Ah, so the answer to my question was was a no then.

[Wes Tender]

It's pretty obvious is it not.

 

Some on here - like you for instance - seem to want foreigners to mind their "damn" business. Except that is when they are putting their money into struggeling British football clubs they happen to support when they suddenly become very welcome.

 

Oh and I think you will find that Marcus Liebherr was a Swiss citizen of German descent and that some of his various business interests are based in Germany.

 

I'll help you understand it a little bit better. The Liebherr family are minding their business and I'm very grateful to them for taking us on in our hour of need. As far as I'm aware, foreign ownership of British businesses will continue regardless of whether we stay or leave the EU, so we can be Swiss owned, Chelsea Russian owned, City Arab owned, Liverpool and United American owned and Leicester owned by Thais. None of those Countries are EU members.

 

I and numerous others were critical of Obama's interference in our internal politics (and he would have been very annoyed if our PM had recommended that the Yanks should vote for a Republican in their elections by way of a comparison that you might understand). If you wish to conclude that somehow I have some rampant xenophobia, then you are as usual very wide of the mark. I suspect that my family background and ancestry makes me a lot more European and International than you.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

I'll help you understand it a little bit better. The Liebherr family are minding their business and I'm very grateful to them for taking us on in our hour of need. As far as I'm aware, foreign ownership of British businesses will continue regardless of whether we stay or leave the EU, so we can be Swiss owned, Chelsea Russian owned, City Arab owned, Liverpool and United American owned and Leicester owned by Thais. None of those Countries are EU members.

 

I and numerous others were critical of Obama's interference in our internal politics (and he would have been very annoyed if our PM had recommended that the Yanks should vote for a Republican in their elections by way of a comparison that you might understand). If you wish to conclude that somehow I have some rampant xenophobia, then you are as usual very wide of the mark. I suspect that my family background and ancestry makes me a lot more European and International than you.

 

So you are now a internationlist who just happens to desire that his nation severs its formal links with its nearest neighbours and vehemently dislikes international cooperation .. oh and for your infomation geography dictates that we are all Europeans by the way!

 

Back on planet Earth, there is little that is more GUARANTEED to reduce oversees investment in the UK economy than us withdrawing from the EU. In the 2014/15 financial year official statitics show that FDI (Foreign Direct Investment) created or secured some 100,000 UK jobs and we received both the highest number, and the higest net value, of FDI projects coming into the European Union. We are behind only the USA and China as a place to recieve foreign investment and the accumulated value of our incoming investments is calculated to have exceeded £1trillion for the first time ever.

 

The reason we have been so very successful in attracting this level of foreign investment is not because the world is obcessed with the UK and its comparetivly modest market of 64 million consumers, no, we have achieved this undoubted success because of our EU membership and the assured access that status gives any business located here to the Single Market area and its 508 million people.

 

The 'Vote Leave' campaign have conceeded now that leaving the EU also means that we will leave the Single Market area - indeed there is no dispute anymore in that regard as both sides now agree on this point. In return for running that absurd risk all 'Vote Leave' can offer the British people is some hoplessly vague promise that they are somehow "sure" that we can negotiate a new trade deal with the EU - both the nature and the timing of which are a matter of mere speculation at this time. IIRC the record shows that in normaly takes between 2 and 9 years to formalize this type of arrangement with the EU such are the labyrinthine legal and political complexities of the issue.

 

So you tell me then why any big foreign business seeking to gain or maintain its assured access to the EU Single Market area would choose to locate their investment in the UK when there are 27 other nations (plus the newly independent Scotland you don't care about) that would be more than willing to have them instead? It seems to me that - if you get your way - for years to come the UK would become one of the last places in Europe to recieve foreign investment rather than the first.

[Wes Tender]

So you are now a internationlist who just happens to desire that his nation severs its formal links with its nearest neighbours and vehemently dislikes international cooperation .. oh and for your infomation geography dictates that we are all Europeans by the way!

 

Back on planet Earth, there is little that is more GUARANTEED to reduce oversees investment in the UK economy than us withdrawing from the EU. In the 2014/15 financial year official statitics show that FDI (Foreign Direct Investment) created or secured some 100,000 UK jobs and we received both the highest number, and the higest net value, of FDI projects coming into the European Union. We are behind only the USA and China as a place to recieve foreign investment and the accumulated value of our incoming investments is calculated to have exceeded £1trillion for the first time ever.

 

The reason we have been so very successful in attracting this level of foreign investment is not because the world is obcessed with the UK and its comparetivly modest market of 64 million consumers, no, we have achieved this undoubted success because of our EU membership and the assured access that status gives any business located here to the Single Market area and its 508 million people.

 

The 'Vote Leave' campaign have conceeded now that leaving the EU also means that we will leave the Single Market area - indeed there is no dispute anymore in that regard as both sides now agree on this point. In return for running that absurd risk all 'Vote Leave' can offer the British people is some hoplessly vague promise that they are somehow "sure" that we can negotiate a new trade deal with the EU - both the nature and the timing of which are a matter of mere speculation at this time. IIRC the record shows that in normaly takes between 2 and 9 years to formalize this type of arrangement with the EU such are the labyrinthine legal and political complexities of the issue.

 

So you tell me then why any big foreign business seeking to gain or maintain its assured access to the EU Single Market area would choose to locate their investment in the UK when there are 27 other nations (plus the newly independent Scotland you don't care about) that would be more than willing to have them instead? It seems to me that - if you get your way - for years to come the UK would become one of the last places in Europe to recieve foreign investment rather than the first.

 

Look, I really can't be arsed to read your little diatribe about trade. It is becoming really boring and repetitive, like a stuck record. I get the message that you are in the camp that believes that we will virtually cease our trade with Europe post Brexit and that the UK will cease to be the 5th biggest economy in the World, WW3 will break out, there will be biblical retribution, a plague of locusts, etc.

 

What would happen if we left the EU, is that the EU in its present Federalist form would be finished, as other member states also insist on referenda and leave.

 

What I answered and you chose to gloss over, was the accusation from you that I was xenophobic. Typically, you confuse my claim to be more European than you based on parental ancestry, with the UK's geographical position. With an Austro-Italian mother and having travelled to the vast majority of European countries, I'm hardly going to be xenophobic. Your comprehension of the English Language is either really poor, or else you are just trolling.

[Wes Tender]

https://thescepticisle.com/2016/05/25/france-other-eu-states-are-hampering-new-trade-deals-we-need-control-of-our-trade-policy/

[buctootim]

https://thescepticisle.com/2016/05/25/france-other-eu-states-are-hampering-new-trade-deals-we-need-control-of-our-trade-policy/

 

That article thinks TTIP is a good idea and implies it shouldnt be questioned by member states. Tells you all you need to know

[Sour Mash]

Ah, so the answer to my question was was a no then.

He's always getting caught out on here with questions he can't answer.

[moonraker]

Look, I really can't be arsed to read your little diatribe about trade. It is becoming really boring and repetitive, like a stuck record. I get the message that you are in the camp that believes that we will virtually cease our trade with Europe post Brexit and that the UK will cease to be the 5th biggest economy in the World, WW3 will break out, there will be biblical retribution, a plague of locusts, etc.

 

What would happen if we left the EU, is that the EU in its present Federalist form would be finished, as other member states also insist on referenda and leave.

 

What I answered and you chose to gloss over, was the accusation from you that I was xenophobic. Typically, you confuse my claim to be more European than you based on parental ancestry, with the UK's geographical position. With an Austro-Italian mother and having travelled to the vast majority of European countries, I'm hardly going to be xenophobic. Your comprehension of the English Language is either really poor, or else you are just trolling.

Is that a fact; based on evidence, an opinion, a possible scenario based on self selecting assumptions or wishful thinking? I try in the main to avoid xenophobic, it is to extreme for the majority of leave supporters however my perception is that many leave supporters believe that the ‘British' our abilities and culture are superior to our European cousins, at best misguided at worst arrogant, it is this perception that leads many remain supporters to understandably but incorrectly label leave supporters as xenophobic.

[Wes Tender]

That article thinks TTIP is a good idea and implies it shouldnt be questioned by member states. Tells you all you need to know

 

Does it? The thrust of the article is that we should have more control over our trade deals, without them having to be agreed by 28 states each with their own vested interests with which to disrupt them.

[Wes Tender]

Is that a fact; based on evidence, an opinion, a possible scenario based on self selecting assumptions or wishful thinking? I try in the main to avoid xenophobic, it is to extreme for the majority of leave supporters however my perception is that many leave supporters believe that the ‘British' our abilities and culture are superior to our European cousins, at best misguided at worst arrogant, it is this perception that leads many remain supporters to understandably but incorrectly label leave supporters as xenophobic.

 

It is an opinion based on articles I read that suggest that other member states would follow our lead and put their own EU membership to referenda. I believe that there is certainly a groundswell of opinion building that more and more citizens of other member states are increasingly aware that the EU needs radical reform. They might be happy with the European market's internal trade, but are concerned about their loss of national identity and sovereignty and the loss of control over their own borders.

 

I agree with you that the labelling of those in the Leave campaign as xenophobic, little Englanders, racists, uncaring for their children's futures, is a puerile tactic in many cases, when it is should be clear that the Leave supporters are just as likely to be motivated towards a position of what they see as the best interests of the UK as the Remainians are. It is far easier to dismiss those opposed to mass uncontrolled immigration as xenophobic little Englanders than it is to accept the basis of their genuine concerns, that our infrastructure could not handle it, that our NHS, schools and housing market cannot cope.

[aintforever]

It is an opinion based on articles I read that suggest that other member states would follow our lead and put their own EU membership to referenda. I believe that there is certainly a groundswell of opinion building that more and more citizens of other member states are increasingly aware that the EU needs radical reform. They might be happy with the European market's internal trade, but are concerned about their loss of national identity and sovereignty and the loss of control over their own borders.

 

Agree with this. A vote to leave is the ONLY way to get a reformed EU.

 

Whichever way the vote goes we will still stay in the single market - market forces will dictate that IMO.

[OldNick]

If I thought voting out would get the Eu reformed i would be there in an instant. Sadly we are dealing with politicians on both sides

[van Hanegem]

The mortgage interest rate in Holland is at an alltime low and it is tempting to refinance my current mortgage but I'll have to pay a big fine so it's better to wait for another 6 months. Problem is that a Brexit will very probably mean that the interest rate will raise quickly so please forget what I said here before and just vote "Yes". Much obliged!

[hypochondriac]

If I thought voting out would get the Eu reformed i would be there in an instant. Sadly we are dealing with politicians on both sides

We are much more likely to see eu reform with a close vote. A decisive yes will maintain the current unfair status quo.

[Wes Tender]

If I thought voting out would get the Eu reformed i would be there in an instant. Sadly we are dealing with politicians on both sides

 

Well, human nature dictates that a yes vote will be taken by them as a green light to not only continue as they are currently, but to march forward relentlessly towards their goal of a totally federal United States of Europe.

 

If we voted to leave and several other member states then offered referenda to their electorates, that would soon bring the EU hierarchy quickly to heel over serious reforms on the issues causing the dissent.

[moonraker]

Well, human nature dictates that a yes vote will be taken by them as a green light to not only continue as they are currently, but to march forward relentlessly towards their goal of a totally federal United States of Europe.

 

If we voted to leave and several other member states then offered referenda to their electorates, that would soon bring the EU hierarchy quickly to heel over serious reforms on the issues causing the dissent.

 

I see a paradox in your argument. If as you claim there is a groundswell of anti Federalist sentiment across Europe then what the UK does or does not do will not change that. My take is that Eurocrats and EU politicians are starting to acknowledge, albeit grudgingly that the federalist USE dream is loosing its wheels in the face of increasing EU wide campaigning and protest. For me staying in and driving reform from the ground up is preferable to exiting and watching from the side-lines as the EU gets it act together.

Edited 26 May, 2016 by moonraker

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Look, I really can't be arsed to read your little diat ribe about trade. It is becoming really boring and repetitive, like a stuck record. I get the message that you are in the camp that believes that we will virtually cease our trade with Europe post Brexit and that the UK will cease to be the 5th biggest economy in the World, WW3 will break out, there will be biblical retribution, a plague of locusts, etc.

 

What would happen if we left the EU, is that the EU in its present Federalist form would be finished, as other member states also insist on referenda and leave.

 

What I answered and you chose to gloss over, was the accusation from you that I was xenophobic. Typically, you confuse my claim to be more European than you based on parental ancestry, with the UK's geographical position. With an Austro-Italian mother and having travelled to the vast majority of European countries, I'm hardly going to be xenophobic. Your comprehension of the English Language is either really poor, or else you are just trolling.

 

Fascinated as I am sure we all are with your family history I must inform you that where your parents happen to have been born has nothing to do with anything. Neither for that matter does having visited the continent grant you some special and unique status!

 

How and why you consider yourself to be more European than me - despite you knowing the square root of bugger-all about my anchestry - is one of those little mysteries that do crop up in any conversation with you. As for your latest complaint of being so hard done by on here, I can only say that if YOU choose to employ language such as 'foreigners should mind there own damn business' (or words to that effect) then you lay yourself open to accusations of xenophobia. Indeed, that noun could be classified as a 'fair comment' depiction of your attitude as expressed on here.

 

Re your stated reluctance to even read any opinion that does not coincide with your own, this hardly comes as much of a surprise and is indeed fully consistent with your dismissive approach to evidence in general - as we have seen on here time and time again. Your apparent desire to not only see the UK leave the EU, but for the organisation itself to be destroyed, smacks of a type of fanaticism that makes this forum member glad that he only has to encounter you over a broadband connection rather than in real life.

 

.

[John B]

Well, human nature dictates that a yes vote will be taken by them as a green light to not only continue as they are currently, but to march forward relentlessly towards their goal of a totally federal United States of Europe.

 

If we voted to leave and several other member states then offered referenda to their electorates, that would soon bring the EU hierarchy quickly to heel over serious reforms on the issues causing the dissent.

 

To have a single market you need free movement of capital goods and labour how can that be changed?

[Sour Mash]

If I thought voting out would get the Eu reformed i would be there in an instant. Sadly we are dealing with politicians on both sides

 

Well voting out is obviously going to bring about more reform than a vote to remain, so I'm not sure what your point is?

[Wes Tender]

Fascinated as I am sure we all are with your family history I must inform you that where your parents happen to have been born has nothing to do with anything. Neither for that matter does having visited the continent grant you some special and unique status!

 

How and why you consider yourself to be more European than me - despite you knowing the square root of bugger-all about my anchestry - is one of those little mysteries that do crop up in any conversation with you. As for your latest complaint of being so hard done by on here, I can only say that if YOU choose to employ language such as 'foreigners should mind there own damn business' (or words to that effect) then you lay yourself open to accusations of xenophobia. Indeed, that noun could be classified as a 'fair comment' depiction of your attitude as expressed on here.

 

Re your stated reluctance to even read any opinion that does not coincide with your own, this hardly comes as much of a surprise and is indeed fully consistent with your dismissive approach to evidence in general - as we have seen on here time and time again. Your apparent desire to not only see the UK leave the EU, but for the organisation itself to be destroyed, smacks of a type of fanaticism that makes this forum member glad that he only has to encounter you over a broadband connection rather than in real life.

 

.

*Yawn*

[TwoPints]

Well voting out is obviously going to bring about more reform than a vote to remain, so I'm not sure what your point is?

If we're not in the EU how are we going to reform it? We'll have no influence on what the EU does at all.

[Batman]

If we're not in the EU how are we going to reform it? We'll have no influence on what the EU does at all.

 

you actually think we can reform it? really?

[Nolan]

Labours argument to stay in the EU is to protect workers rights.

 

No wonder it's confusing that there were riots in a country with a socialist government regarding workers rights yesterday. Was the EU not protecting them?

 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Labours argument to stay in the EU is to protect workers rights.

 

No wonder it's confusing that there were riots in a country with a socialist government regarding workers rights yesterday. Was the EU not protecting them?

 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

 

Because in reality the EU is not the dictating all-powerfull superstate its is sometimes depicted to be?

[Wes Tender]

you actually think we can reform it? really?

 

I agree, anybody who believes that we could actually reform the EU is a bit naive. For a start, it takes the political willpower to want to do it in the first place and Call me Dave has demonstrated amply his inability to get even the minor concessions towards reform that he sought. Post referendum, if we vote to remain in, he's hardly the one to bargain for reform following his daily fawning over how marvellous the organisation is.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

I agree, anybody who believes that we could actually reform the EU is a bit naive. For a start, it takes the political willpower to want to do it in the first place and Call me Dave has demonstrated amply his inability to get even the minor concessions towards reform that he sought. Post referendum, if we vote to remain in, he's hardly the one to bargain for reform following his daily fawning over how marvellous the organisation is.

 

But you told this forum that a sense of discontent with the EU was growing across the continent. If that is true why then would this feeling not eventualy be refected in the EU? What you are saying here makes no sense.

 

Like anything else created by the hand of man the EU is imperfect. However, I see no reason to believe that it is beyond reform and surely the only way the UK can play its part in promoting that reform process is from within, rather than isolated somewhere out on the sidelines.

[Goatboy]

But you told this forum that a sense of discontent with the EU was growing across the continent. If that is true why then would this feeling not eventualy be refected in the EU? What you are saying here makes no sense.

 

Like anything else created by the hand of man the EU is imperfect. However, I see no reason to believe that it is beyond reform and surely the only way the UK can play its part in promoting that reform process is from within, rather than isolated somewhere out on the sidelines.

 

Evidence would suggest otherwise.

[Whitey Grandad]

Well voting out is obviously going to bring about more reform than a vote to remain, so I'm not sure what your point is?

 

But if we're outside the EU why would we care about reform?

[OldNick]

Well voting out is obviously going to bring about more reform than a vote to remain, so I'm not sure what your point is?

Stupidly I believed that if you vot to go out , you are out. I didnt realise we have a vote to go out and if so they will buckle and reform....oh and when they do we have voted to go out and so it wont matter

[Wes Tender]

Evidence would suggest otherwise.

 

Indeed. There have been no significant reforms of the EU since it became that after being the EEC and the Common Market before and I see no reason why there would be any reforms if we stayed in, as our decision to remain in would be seen as an endorsement of the EU in its current form. They are hardly likely to take much notice of Dave's opinion when he has been so gushing about what a marvellous entity it is.

 

Reforms would almost certainly be forced on the EU if we left and particularly if others followed suit. Of course, that would not matter to us if we were outside this sclerotic organisation and the question of our having any input into potential reforms would be spurious, unless we were consulted as part of a process of re-joining a reformed EU at a later stage. Despite all the blather from the EU about how this is not an option, history shows that the EU has form in allowing other Countries to continue their membership following a referendum vote to leave.

 

Ultimately, a Brexit would do much more harm to the EU than it would to us.

[aintforever]

Stupidly I believed that if you vot to go out , you are out. I didnt realise we have a vote to go out and if so they will buckle and reform....oh and when they do we have voted to go out and so it wont matter

 

I think that is what the Irish stupidly believed as well. They voted out, changes were made, then they held another referendum and voted in. At least a vote to leave would give the PM a decent hand when it comes to negotiating a better deal - last time he had the Polish leader telling us we have no option but to pay child benefit to kids in Poland.

[CB Fry]

I think that is what the Irish stupidly believed as well. They voted out, changes were made, then they held another referendum and voted in. At least a vote to leave would give the PM a decent hand when it comes to negotiating a better deal - last time he had the Polish leader telling us we have no option but to pay child benefit to kids in Poland.

Don't be ridiculous - we vote out, we're out. I thought the whole point was we're-the-fifth-biggest-economy-in-the-etc-etc-etc. Out means out means out. We're not pis sing little Ireland.

 

If we do vote out, that's it, we're out. The biggest challenges going forward will be a) Brexit politicans like Boris having to sell exactly the same levels of immigration to the public ("well, it is vital to the economy") and the likes of Farage finding some other bogeyman to blame all our problems on.

[buctootim]

I think that is what the Irish stupidly believed as well. They voted out, changes were made, then they held another referendum and voted in. At least a vote to leave would give the PM a decent hand when it comes to negotiating a better deal - last time he had the Polish leader telling us we have no option but to pay child benefit to kids in Poland.

 

They never voted to leave the EU.

[buctootim]

The biggest challenges going forward will be a) Brexit politicans like Boris having to sell exactly the same levels of immigration to the public ("well, it is vital to the economy") and the likes of Farage finding some other bogeyman to blame all our problems on.

 

Exactly. The majority of immigration right now comes not from our 27 nearest neighbours - but from China and India and other countries half way around the world. Boris, for all the rhetoric isnt going to stop that.

[hutch]

But I guess we do need more Indonesian junior doctors than Latvian chambermaids.

[Batman]

I wonder what has changed. Given WW3 and the bottom falling out of the economy should we leave.

 

[CB Fry]

I wonder what has changed. Given WW3 and the bottom falling out of the economy should we leave.

 

I remember when Cameron said this.

 

He has argued the choice is “really quite simple”: “In favour of staying, it is in Britain’s geo-strategic interests to be pretty intimately engaged in the doings of a continent that has a grim 20th-century history, and whose agonies have caused millions of Britons to lose their lives.”

 

Hang on, it wasn't Cameron. It was someone else.