EU referendum

[Batman]

[CB Fry]

After the clip finishes that odd bloke appears talking about the leftist bias of the "British Brainwashing Corporation", seemingly unaware of the source of the clip. Great stuff.

 

Of course, Andrew Neil seems to get 20 tweets a day about how right wing and Tory the BBC is and how the bloke that runs BBC Politics was Osborne's best man or something. But all by the by.

 

That woman came across okay anyway.

[Hockey_saint]

How on earth is that balanced?

[Wes Tender]

How on earth is that balanced?

 

That wa balanced, it is you who are not.

 

As a matter of interest, which points she made did you feel were not balanced.

[OldNick]

I know where Iam financially now, if we leave I may become 10% better off, 30% worse off or stay the same.

As for immigration, it has been an issue before we were in the EU.

To think we can all of a sudden stop immigration seems far fetched to me.

 

Where I sit I cant see our kids doing menial jobs and think they are above it, so IMO we need immigration for people who want to work.

 

My heart tells me to vote out as our Empire will rally around and support us..........oh I forgot we abandoned them when we went in

 

My head says we have to stay in, it is not what i want but I feel it is the only way forward. A market of hundreds of millions on our doorstep.

[Wes Tender]

I know where Iam financially now, if we leave I may become 10% better off, 30% worse off or stay the same.

As for immigration, it has been an issue before we were in the EU.

To think we can all of a sudden stop immigration seems far fetched to me.

 

Where I sit I cant see our kids doing menial jobs and think they are above it, so IMO we need immigration for people who want to work.

 

My heart tells me to vote out as our Empire will rally around and support us..........oh I forgot we abandoned them when we went in

 

My head says we have to stay in, it is not what i want but I feel it is the only way forward. A market of hundreds of millions on our doorstep.

 

Have a read of this when you have the time. It covers pretty well all aspects of our membership and also gives a pragmatic view of how we would go about leaving, what our options would be and the likely implications for trade and our economy for the UK post-Brexit. It also discusses the issues of immigration, sovereignty, the legal aspects and the implications of the effects on the EU if we departed.

 

http://www.brugesgroup.com/media-centre/papers/8-papers/1159-emergency-exit

[Sour Mash]

I know where Iam financially now, if we leave I may become 10% better off, 30% worse off or stay the same.

As for immigration, it has been an issue before we were in the EU.

To think we can all of a sudden stop immigration seems far fetched to me.

 

Where I sit I cant see our kids doing menial jobs and think they are above it, so IMO we need immigration for people who want to work.

 

My heart tells me to vote out as our Empire will rally around and support us..........oh I forgot we abandoned them when we went in

 

My head says we have to stay in, it is not what i want but I feel it is the only way forward. A market of hundreds of millions on our doorstep.

What a load of made up rubbish.

 

First of all, you do realise that a vote to "Remain" isn't a vote for the status quo? And even if it was, you know no-more about where you'll be financially than if we leave? You do understand that I hope?

 

No-one wants to "stop immigration", so that's another made up argument.

 

Immigration figures are higher as a result of free labour movement in eu, so that's something else you've just made up.

 

Why would we need our empire to "rally around"?

 

The "market of hundred of millions" will still be there if we vote leave.

 

I'm not sure if your post was a serious one or a general wind up/p**s take, you got every single point wrong.

[ecuk268]

Immigration figures are higher as a result of free labour movement in eu, so that's something else you've just made up.

 

If you'd bothered to read what he said, he didn't mention figures. He just said that it was an issue before we joined the EU.

 

It was. Remember Enoch Powell?

[Sour Mash]

If you'd bothered to read what he said, he didn't mention figures. He just said that it was an issue before we joined the EU.

 

It was. Remember Enoch Powell?

He mentioned it in the context of voting to leave or remain in the EU, therefore the EU's impact and increase in immigration is the point of focus, not something that was happening 50 years ago.

[Hockey_saint]

That wa balanced, it is you who are not.

 

As a matter of interest, which points she made did you feel were not balanced.

 

Quite a bit actually...well...let's see, published by someone called "RobinhoodUKIP" that kinda starts it off with a great big "I'M VOTING FOR BREXIT" To me, and most other non-right wing stereotypes....secondly, where's she getting her statistics about Obama from? Donald Trump? the Tea Party? Former "presidential advisor"...to whom....George Bush? The suthern drawl gives her away as to her political leanings too.

 

Nah, it's another BS video byte by Kippers and psuedo xenophobes. That's about as balanced as a drunk man after 20 pints...or Fred "the skate" Dinage talking about the stay campaign on Meridian.

[Sour Mash]

Quite a bit actually...well...let's see, published by someone called "RobinhoodUKIP" that kinda starts it off with a great big "I'M VOTING FOR BREXIT" To me, and most other non-right wing stereotypes....secondly, where's she getting her statistics about Obama from? Donald Trump? the Tea Party? Former "presidential advisor"...to whom....George Bush? The suthern drawl gives her away as to her political leanings too.

 

Nah, it's another BS video byte by Kippers and psuedo xenophobes. That's about as balanced as a drunk man after 20 pints...or Fred "the skate" Dinage talking about the stay campaign on Meridian.

Tory Boy continuing his support for big business, the privatisation of the NHS and the stitch up of the working classes by his heroes Osborne and Cameron I see.

[Batman]

migration at a mere 363,000 a year.

not that long ago it was around a cool 250,000. Basically, another southampton every 12 months. Another 20 schools, 2-3 hospitals. 3 police stations, 3 fire stations etc etc

 

wont be long before it reaches smart half million per year?

excellent!

[Hockey_saint]

Ah brilliant kipper checklist right there!

 

- Immigration - check,

- something, something migration

 

and as for "Tory Boy continuing his support for big business, the privatisation of the NHS and the stitch up of the working classes by his heroes Osborne and Cameron I see." I take that as dirty and frankly disgusting libelous statement and if I was able, I'd bloody sue you for that as I don't believe in any of what you've written there.

[Sour Mash]

Ah brilliant kipper checklist right there!

 

- Immigration - check,

- something, something migration

 

and as for "Tory Boy continuing his support for big business, the privatisation of the NHS and the stitch up of the working classes by his heroes Osborne and Cameron I see." I take that as dirty and frankly disgusting libelous statement and if I was able, I'd bloody sue you for that as I don't believe in any of what you've written there.

This is what you're voting your support of http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/ttip-uk-government-only-did-one-assessment-of-trade-deal-and-found-it-had-lots-of-risks-and-no-a6999646.html

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/what-is-ttip-and-six-reasons-why-the-answer-should-scare-you-9779688.html

[Wes Tender]

Quite a bit actually...well...let's see, published by someone called "RobinhoodUKIP" that kinda starts it off with a great big "I'M VOTING FOR BREXIT" To me, and most other non-right wing stereotypes....secondly, where's she getting her statistics about Obama from? Donald Trump? the Tea Party? Former "presidential advisor"...to whom....George Bush? The suthern drawl gives her away as to her political leanings too.

 

Nah, it's another BS video byte by Kippers and psuedo xenophobes. That's about as balanced as a drunk man after 20 pints...or Fred "the skate" Dinage talking about the stay campaign on Meridian.

 

Thanks for your response, which is helpful, because at any time that a Brexit supporter dares to suggest that arguments from the remain camp might be biased propaganda depending on their source, the inevitable defensive response is that there is a lack of such credible information available from Brexit. Instead of this dismissal based on who is making the comment, why don't you do as I ask and discuss which points she made were not balanced and explain why?

 

No doubt you will also dismiss the article I posted because of where that came from to.

[Hockey_saint]

This is what you're voting your support of http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/ttip-uk-government-only-did-one-assessment-of-trade-deal-and-found-it-had-lots-of-risks-and-no-a6999646.html

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/what-is-ttip-and-six-reasons-why-the-answer-should-scare-you-9779688.html

 

That is NOT what I am voting to support. Please don't us a US imposed trade deal (to keep themselves propped up as a superpower) as a reason to vote with hate-mongers and little Englanders.

 

Wes Tender...What a charming article and organisation, who's founding president couldn't be more little Englander (the love child of Enoch Powell).....And really Lord Tebbit? Yeah no bias there whatsoever.

Edited 25 April, 2016 by Hockey_saint

[Sour Mash]

That is NOT what I am voting to support. Please don't us a US imposed trade deal (to keep themselves propped up as a superpower) as a reason to vote with hate-mongers and little Englanders.

So you've voting in support of big business, the privatisation of the NHS and the stitch up of the working classes as a statement against some of the people who want to vote to leave.

 

At lease you're honest about your reasons for voting and your lack of interest in the actual subject.

[Hockey_saint]

So you've voting in support of big business, the privatisation of the NHS and the stitch up of the working classes as a statement against some of the people who want to vote to leave.

 

At lease you're honest about your reasons for voting and your lack of interest in the actual subject.

 

No, because I think we'd have no chance of fending off TTIP by ourselves and if you think otherwise, you're living in cloud cuckoo land.

[Sour Mash]

No, because I think we'd have no chance of fending off TTIP by ourselves and if you think otherwise, you're living in cloud cuckoo land.

Ok, for the sake of argument we'll pretend you're not really voting for the privatisation of the nhs, just voting in support of big business and the stitch up of the working classes.

[aintforever]

migration at a mere 363,000 a year.

not that long ago it was around a cool 250,000. Basically, another southampton every 12 months. Another 20 schools, 2-3 hospitals. 3 police stations, 3 fire stations etc etc

 

wont be long before it reaches smart half million per year?

excellent!

 

That's why I'm voting to leave, don't really give a flying **** what big business think is good for them.

[Hockey_saint]

Brilliant piece from Patrick Stewart....Just one of the things Brexiteers would like to remove us from.... http://www.theguardian.com/culture/video/2016/apr/25/patrick-stewart-sketch-what-has-the-echr-ever-done-for-us-video?CMP=share_btn_fb

[Johnny Bognor]

Brilliant piece from Patrick Stewart....Just one of the things Brexiteers would like to remove us from.... http://www.theguardian.com/culture/video/2016/apr/25/patrick-stewart-sketch-what-has-the-echr-ever-done-for-us-video?CMP=share_btn_fb

 

i'm glad they gave us freedom from slavery, because before we joined, it was a real problem. As for torture, we could finally ban the rack and the iron maiden

 

As for the right to a fair trial, we had and still have a justice system that is the envy of the world.

 

Anyway, what about the most fundemental of rights? One that people have fought and died for? You know, the right to elected and accountable representatives???? We call it democracy?? Ah, that wouldn't suit those on the EU gravy train.

Edited 25 April, 2016 by Johnny Bognor

[Hockey_saint]

i'm glad they gave us freedom from slavery, because before we joined, it was a real problem. As for torture, we could finally ban the rack and the iron maiden

 

As for the right to a fair trial, we had and still have a justice system that is the envy of the world.

 

Anyway, what about the most fundemental of rights? One that people have fought and died for? You know, the right to elected and accountable representatives???? We call it democracy?? Ah, that wouldn't suit those on the EU gravy train.

 

Ah, keep on churning out the BS to appease the majority of the Tory party. I wonder who votes for MEPs at European elections again.

 

If you'd fully watched that video, they make it very clear that we did indeed invent all of those, we also wrote the charter for the European court of human rights...that your lovely tory friends are currently trying to dismantle. But keep believing in your fantasy of some all powerful, unelected superstate. Because if I had a choice between the rights the EU would offer me to those of a few damn well corrupt and crooked tory scumbags, I know who I'd go for.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Brilliant piece from Patrick Stewart....Just one of the things Brexiteers would like to remove us from.... http://www.theguardian.com/culture/video/2016/apr/25/patrick-stewart-sketch-what-has-the-echr-ever-done-for-us-video?CMP=share_btn_fb

 

Has Theresa May joined the Brexit side?

[Hockey_saint]

Has Theresa May joined the Brexit side?

 

She clearly wants to but her loyalty to her leader is obviously more important to her. I was expecting someone to make this point but again, it's a tedious one because quite obviously she wants out as she's been very critical of the stay campaign and wanting to remove our affiliation to the ECHR is something that's insane.

[Johnny Bognor]

Ah, keep on churning out the BS to appease the majority of the Tory party. I wonder who votes for MEPs at European elections again.

 

If you'd fully watched that video, they make it very clear that we did indebed invent all of those, we also wrote the charter for the European court of human rights...that your lovely tory friends are currently trying to dismantle. But keep believing in your fantasy of some all powerful, unelected superstate. Because if I had a choice between the rights the EU would offer me to those of a few damn well corrupt and crooked tory scumbags, I know who I'd go for.

 

It was a tory scumbag that wrote the ECHR. Careful or the tory boy label might stick LOL

 

In other news, the lib dems and the greens think we should have a UK Bill of Rights...

[Wes Tender]

Because if I had a choice between the rights the EU would offer me to those of a few damn well corrupt and crooked tory scumbags, I know who I'd go for.

 

Yes, it is clear that you would rather accuse the elected government of corrupt and crooked dealings, whilst preferring the unelected and largely unaccountable executive of the EU.

 

Perhaps you might care to read this and comment on whether you then think that there is not far more scope for corruption by those who run the EU:-

 

EU property cannot be searched: it enjoys the equivalent of diplomatic immunity. The first two Articles of Protocol 7 of the TFEU state boldly:

The premises and buildings of the Union shall be inviolable. They shall be exempt from search, requisition, confiscation or expropriation ... The archives of the Union shall be inviolable.

This is of course an invitation to corruption. There is nothing the police can do to corroborate a whistleblower’s exposure of wrong-doing within the EU, and this allows criminals within the system freedom to operate beyond the reach of the law. And even if the police could seize physical evidence in a raid, they wouldn’t then be able to prosecute ... because EU officials are immune from prosecution. For Article 11 states:

Officials and other servants of the Union shall ... be immune from legal proceedings in respect of acts performed by them in their official capacity, including their words spoken or written. They shall continue to enjoy this immunity after they have ceased to hold office.

Europol, too, has immunity from prosecution. Why? All our policemen are accountable for their actions, and so is Interpol. Europol is authorised to gather information on political and religious beliefs, ethnic origins, and sexual activities. One employee has already been caught selling information from the Schengen database to criminals. Since 1215 it has been one of Britain’s constitutional bulwarks that no person, not even the monarch, is above the law. Why, then, have we had to accept that such a shady EU task force, unknown to most people, should be allowed to delve into the most intimate aspects of our private lives, without defamed and injured citizens having any recourse in law against it?

The EU was always designed to be a totalitarian state (why else is the EU Parliament not empowered to initiate legislation, and anyone with any power not elected?) But most recently the mask has begun to slip. On 15 December 2015, the EU unveiled plans for a new border and coastguard force empowered to intervene inside a member state when that member state is deemed to be failing to secure its frontiers even without the host country’s consent. That is the thin end of a very nasty wedge indeed.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

It was a tory scumbag that wrote the ECHR. Careful or the tory boy label might stick LOL

 

In other news, the lib dems and the greens think we should have a UK Bill of Rights...

 

Ironically it was another famous/infamous Conservative politician - Margaret Thatcher no less - who was the driving force behind the EU "Single Market" concept (with all its incumbant free movement of goods/services/people provisions) and steered this measure through our Parliment in the crucial Single European Act of 1986.

 

And yet now right wing Tories/kippers form the core of the 'Leave' campaign .... 'tis a funny old world we live in.

[Verbal]

Come on, kipper T. Get round to answering ecuk's question. And how are you shaping up with your Brexiteer Great Leader's view that we should be like Albania. I can see a lot of kippers thinking Michael Gove's Albania is the ideal role model. You should push Albania harder in the referendum campaign. #Votewinner.

 

I'm still predicting an easy Brexit win, by the way. Nailed on.

[Nolan]

Thing is we aren't voting on the European Court of Human Rights. That is part of the Council of Europe, which is a completely separate entity from the European Union.

 

We are voting to come out of the European Union. Remain or leave we stay one of the 47 members of the council of Europe which predates the EEC even, by fifteen or so years.

 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[buctootim]

It was a tory scumbag that wrote the ECHR. Careful or the tory boy label might stick LOL

 

In other news, the lib dems and the greens think we should have a UK Bill of Rights...

 

That simply exemplifies how far the current Tory party has moved from its one nation past. Its been captured by a bunch of intellectually bankrupt lightweight idealogues. Its exactly the reason I don't vote for them any more.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Why are people on here commenting when they really don't understand or want to understand the facts. The Tory establishment has always been pro EU/EEC/Common market , it suits big business & the rich. They took us in, pushed expansion, took us into the ERM, signed masstrict and the single European act. Had they been in power it's inconceivable they wouldn't have signed the Lisbon Treaty. The Tory establishment have rail roaded the membership and significant figures have lied to them to reach the top, never realising that the day of reckoning will come and they will have to show their true colours.

 

 

To paint the Leave supporters as right wing golf club bores is lazy and incorrect . The Tories who were lied to and conned in '75 are clearly getting older ,but the baton will pass to the next generation of anti EU voters,these will be labours natural supporters, the poor, the unskilled white working man. It is clearly not a left or right issue. It's just a shame that Corbyn abandoned his principles and put his career ahead of his beliefs . Cameron pretended to be a euro sceptic for party management reasons and Corbyn is pretending otherwise for exactly the same reason . Both men are diminished by these grubby acts.

[badgerx16]

Thing is we aren't voting on the European Court of Human Rights. That is part of the Council of Europe, which is a completely separate entity from the European Union.

 

We are voting to come out of the European Union. Remain or leave we stay one of the 47 members of the council of Europe which predates the EEC even, by fifteen or so years.

 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

 

Is it possible that you could explain that to Teresa May ?

[Nolan]

Is it possible that you could explain that to Teresa May ?

She knows this... But it's to remains advantage that the general public don't.

 

Theyre happy for people to continue with the facade that we are voting on the ehcr as some people panic that we may lose it.

[Verbal]

Why are people on here commenting when they really don't understand or want to understand the facts. The Tory establishment has always been pro EU/EEC/Common market , it suits big business & the rich. They took us in, pushed expansion, took us into the ERM, signed masstrict and the single European act. Had they been in power it's inconceivable they wouldn't have signed the Lisbon Treaty. The Tory establishment have rail roaded the membership and significant figures have lied to them to reach the top, never realising that the day of reckoning will come and they will have to show their true colours.

 

To paint the Leave supporters as right wing golf club bores is lazy and incorrect . The Tories who were lied to and conned in '75 are clearly getting older ,but the baton will pass to the next generation of anti EU voters,these will be labours natural supporters, the poor, the unskilled white working man. It is clearly not a left or right issue. It's just a shame that Corbyn abandoned his principles and put his career ahead of his beliefs . Cameron pretended to be a euro sceptic for party management reasons and Corbyn is pretending otherwise for exactly the same reason . Both men are diminished by these grubby acts.

 

The Leave supporters certainly include an awful lot of right-wing golf bores. Some of them are on here and flirt with kippers. Of course there's a wide spectrum of support for Leave - it's just that the majority on here don't represent that diversity. They can barely get their buggies out of the sand traps.

 

To paint the "Tory establishment" as pro-EU is equally lazy and incorrect. Insofar as you can define an establishment in the party, it's clearly split. How is Michael Gove or Boris Johnson or Chris Grayling or IDS not "establishment". Hopeless each and every one of them - but anti-establishment? Don't be ridiculous.

 

The simple fact is we're having this referendum precisely to paper over the Tory party cracks on the EU that have persisted ever since 1992, when the party split right down the middle of Maastricht. The outcome of the referendum will determine who leads the Tory party in the short term. Boris is banking on it being him. He won't. He's popular in the country but universally loathed within the Tory party hierarchy. It could be Michael "let's all be like Albania" Gove, or even IDS (which would be hugely funny - the worst Tory leader of all time gets a second go).

 

Whoever it is, we're all just vote fodder for a Tory party in a hell of a mess, yet uniquely facing no serious opposition whatsoever from a prolix, ineffectual Labour party leader. The party wounds over Europe therefore have all the room they need to fester, because regardless of who takes control of the Tory leadership, there's no risk at all of being unseated by a viable opposition.

 

So Brexit won't only be a disaster because it'll be BHS writ nationally large; it'll be a disaster because we'll face a Tory party with a renewed vigour to smash the "red tape" that does things like protect our remaining employment rights, holiday entitlements and civil rights, as well as some sort of effective protection against rampaging multinationals like Google (patchy as the EU now is with the latter, what the hell is going to happen when Little England floats alone, or allied with Albania, against the big multinationals).

[Nolan]

The Leave supporters certainly include an awful lot of right-wing golf bores. Some of them are on here and flirt with kippers. Of course there's a wide spectrum of support for Leave - it's just that the majority on here don't represent that diversity. They can barely get their buggies out of the sand traps.

 

To paint the "Tory establishment" as pro-EU is equally lazy and incorrect. Insofar as you can define an establishment in the party, it's clearly split. How is Michael Gove or Boris Johnson or Chris Grayling or IDS not "establishment". Hopeless each and every one of them - but anti-establishment? Don't be ridiculous.

 

The simple fact is we're having this referendum precisely to paper over the Tory party cracks on the EU that have persisted ever since 1992, when the party split right down the middle of Maastricht. The outcome of the referendum will determine who leads the Tory party in the short term. Boris is banking on it being him. He won't. He's popular in the country but universally loathed within the Tory party hierarchy. It could be Michael "let's all be like Albania" Gove, or even IDS (which would be hugely funny - the worst Tory leader of all time gets a second go).

 

Whoever it is, we're all just vote fodder for a Tory party in a hell of a mess, yet uniquely facing no serious opposition whatsoever from a prolix, ineffectual Labour party leader. The party wounds over Europe therefore have all the room they need to fester, because regardless of who takes control of the Tory leadership, there's no risk at all of being unseated by a viable opposition.

 

So Brexit won't only be a disaster because it'll be BHS writ nationally large; it'll be a disaster because we'll face a Tory party with a renewed vigour to smash the "red tape" that does things like protect our remaining employment rights, holiday entitlements and civil rights, as well as some sort of effective protection against rampaging multinationals like Google (patchy as the EU now is with the latter, what the hell is going to happen when Little England floats alone, or allied with Albania, against the big multinationals).

It will not do anything for employment law. The conservatives will still want to win an election in 2020 and won't screw around with that.

[buctootim]

It will not do anything for employment law. The conservatives will still want to win an election in 2020 and won't screw around with that.

 

so they didnt want to win an election every previous time they diluted workers rights?

[OldNick]

What a load of made up rubbish.

 

First of all, you do realise that a vote to "Remain" isn't a vote for the status quo? And even if it was, you know no-more about where you'll be financially than if we leave? You do understand that I hope?

The day after the Referendum if we stay, life will go on as before. People will just move on. If we leave the uncertainty will be disasterous. The pound will fall and the stock market here will do so as well. Im sure a lot of the markets will price it in beforehand but there still will be turmoil. Notice the Germans now own 51% of the London Stock Exchange.

If we leave are they able to damage The City which of course is important in the nations wealth and standing (I ask as I dont know)

 

No-one wants to "stop immigration", so that's another made up argument.

 

I think you will find there are plenty who want to stop immigration. In the main most want to stem it. To me most immigration is positive, especially if we stop benifits etc clicking in for 4 years

 

Immigration figures are higher as a result of free labour movement in eu, so that's something else you've just made up.

 

I can't see where I said EU immigration was not higher, but immigration has been an issue in our society for all my life and pre Europe there was terrible resentment of people from the Carribean and the Indian continent

 

Why would we need our empire to "rally around"?

 

The "market of hundred of millions" will still be there if we vote leave.

 

Are you meaning the hundreds of millions in Continental europe we had just voted not to be part of? You believe we can walk away and that will not harm our relationship with those people? You may mean the Americans or our friends in the Commonwealth who we cut adrift when we first joined. They have made new markets and dont need us

 

I'm not sure if your post was a serious one or a general wind up/p**s take, you got every single point wrong.

 

All in your most humble opinion of course.

[Whitey Grandad]

All in your most humble opinion of course.

 

Maybe, but are you prepared to take the risk?

 

To my thinking there are no advantages in leaving and a whole mountain of disadvantages. Seen from a distance Britain leaving the EU is a pretty crazy idea.

[Sour Mash]

All in your most humble opinion of course.

Why do you think our economic success is entirely reliant on political union with the majority of Europe? What do you think the Germans are going to do to the Stock Exchange if we Leave?

 

Where in any of the various Leave campaigns is it stated that there will be a complete stop to immigration? What is wrong with an Australian style points system and control of our own borders - what negative affect would that have?

 

Now it comes to where you seem to be on a wind up or maybe you just don't understand the subject -we are not voting to not be part of continental Europe. A weird thing to make up.

 

And why do you think we don't have any trade with India, USA, Australia? Or we will not continue to trade with the rest of Europe. Another weird thing to make up.

 

Interesting to see that you see the UK as such a weak country that we can't survive without political union with Europe and 600k+ of uncontrolled migration a year and if we do anything to upset them they'll stop trading with us and will ruin our stock exchange, yet you want to be even more integrated into this club. Bizarre.

[Sour Mash]

Maybe, but are you prepared to take the risk?

 

To my thinking there are no advantages in leaving and a whole mountain of disadvantages. Seen from a distance Britain leaving the EU is a pretty crazy idea.

Controlling our own borders. But you're one of those that is going to vote for Turkish free movement in the UK, so we know who is crazy here.

[Batman]

seriously, when do we think net migration will break 500,000 people every 12 months?

 

how long can that go on for?

the NHS and other public services will just fail

Edited 26 April, 2016 by Batman

[Sour Mash]

seriously, when do we think net migration will break 500,000 people very 12 months?

 

how long can that go on for?

the NHS and other public services will just fail

There's people on here that will be voting for even more of it, utterly crazy.

[Batman]

There's people on here that will be voting for even more of it, utterly crazy.

 

The NHS will almost fail as it can't cope with just 350,000 people coming in every 12 months. Add a few years of HALF A MILLION coming...it will probably need to have fair chunks of it privatised. Luckily, the EU will have a trade deal ready to step in (TTiP). Win/Win it seems

[Hockey_saint]

That simply exemplifies how far the current Tory party has moved from its one nation past. Its been captured by a bunch of intellectually bankrupt lightweight idealogues. Its exactly the reason I don't vote for them any more.

 

Yes it does, they were a reasonable party then...before the dark days, before Powell, Thatcher and her devil children in power today..To compare the two is about as foolish as calling that video impartial.

[Hockey_saint]

seriously, when do we think net migration will break 500,000 people every 12 months?

 

how long can that go on for?

the NHS and other public services will just fail

 

You really dare mention the NHS at the moment? Look around!! This government are currently dismantling it and selling it off by causing staff disorder and pushing up waiting times so that people can say it aint worth it and will eventually have to sign up to their friends private healthcare companies.....really, you think an independent UK, probably habitually led by the cons will keep the NHS? are you crazy?

[Batman]

You really dare mention the NHS at the moment? Look around!! This government are currently dismantling it and selling it off by causing staff disorder and pushing up waiting times so that people can say it aint worth it and will eventually have to sign up to their friends private healthcare companies.....really, you think an independent UK, probably habitually led by the cons will keep the NHS? are you crazy?

how are they dismantling it?

imagine how much worse it will be when 500,000 additional people every 12 months....every year want to use it

[Lord Duckhunter]

I'd vote to remain if that meant German or French health provision , our health services is based on a 1950's model . That's the funny thing . We're accused of being backward Little Englanders , but it's the " progressives" who want 1950's state controlled health care . There's a reason other country's don't follow our model .

[OldNick]

Why do you think our economic success is entirely reliant on political union with the majority of Europe? What do you think the Germans are going to do to the Stock Exchange if we Leave?

 

Where in any of the various Leave campaigns is it stated that there will be a complete stop to immigration? What is wrong with an Australian style points system and control of our own borders - what negative affect would that have?

 

Now it comes to where you seem to be on a wind up or maybe you just don't understand the subject -we are not voting to not be part of continental Europe. A weird thing to make up.

 

And why do you think we don't have any trade with India, USA, Australia? Or we will not continue to trade with the rest of Europe. Another weird thing to make up.

 

Interesting to see that you see the UK as such a weak country that we can't survive without political union with Europe and 600k+ of uncontrolled migration a year and if we do anything to upset them they'll stop trading with us and will ruin our stock exchange, yet you want to be even more integrated into this club. Bizarre.

I think your rage that others may have a different opinion is effecting your replies. Iam not making things up, it is my opinion and whilst it is contrary to yours it is how I see it.

I didn't say that we are voting to join Continental Europe, although fundamentally we are considering that's where most of its people are.

My understanding of the trade deals with India, China, USA etc is part of Trade treaties drawn up with the rest of the countries of Europe. The strength of the whole of the group negotiating the trade deals and using that power to get the best for all the member states. Whether we as a small nation of only 70m people can get the same terms as 400m people is hard to say,( bring it down to the spending power of a supermarket to a corner shop, the supermarket can buy its goods cheaper as it has the spending power)

My heart would be all for going it alone, and I like most others despair at the squandering of power and money the EU brings. I wonder why other nations in Europe like Germany (who pay in the most) accept what we fight against. Perhaps we should do what it seems others nations do, ignore the legislation they don't like.

 

I am waiting for information to decide fully which way to vote, at present it is to stay in, Iam happy to be convinced otherwise, the post about how the EU is above prosecution does make me swing toward the out as that is scandalous

[Batman]

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/664468/European-Commission-sue-Britain-weeks-before-Brexit-vote