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Post-Match Reaction: Chelsea 1-3 SAINTS


Saint-Armstrong

MotM vs Chelsea (Away 2015/16)  

463 members have voted

  1. 1. MotM vs Chelsea (Away 2015/16)

    • Stekelenburg
      0
    • Bertrand
      1
    • Soares
      17
    • van Dijk
      40
    • Fonte
      0
    • Romeu
      1
    • Wanyama
      1
    • Davis
      16
    • Tadic
      6
    • Mané
      230
    • Pellè
      145
    • Ward-Prowse
      1
    • Rodriguez
      0
    • Yoshida
      5


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Have to say, the four of us walking around Shepherd's Bush in Saints stuff yesterday night were congratulated by a LOT of passers-by. Walked into The Green pub as the only 4 Saints fans in there, and a chorus of "Oh When the Saints..." broke out with a load of QPR fans hugging us and shaking hands and everything.

 

Absolutely tremendous.

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While I agree that Mane was MoM, Pelle, Tadic and Cedric were excellent, VvD was a rock at the back: a word for Bertrand. He harried Hazard all game long, didn'y give him a look in, didn't fall for any of his quick-feet tricks, just kept him under control. I can't think of a bad performance by a Saints player, but Bertrand was definitely excellent.

 

Bertrand also played the ball forward for 2 of the 3 goals - which alone shows how much we missed him.

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I think its pretty much agreed that Mane is sublime my worry is just how good is actually is. He will get better and better in my opinion. That causes me great worry. Will he be the next on conveyor belt out of the club.

 

Would the club reject 30million?? Thats my biggest worry, come January could be another nail biter of a month.

 

Good grief, it's been obvious Mane and Wanyama are leaving in the summer at the absolute latest for about 2 months already, just enjoy them whilst they're here.

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So what? Refs let all sorts of stuff go all the time.

But they never help poor old Chelsea, according to The Special Needs One. :)

It was a fact though, stealing that 5 yards was clearly in this case the difference between a direct shot at goal and not. Happens all the time of course, but usually it makes no difference.

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Have to say, the four of us walking around Shepherd's Bush in Saints stuff yesterday night were congratulated by a LOT of passers-by. Walked into The Green pub as the only 4 Saints fans in there, and a chorus of "Oh When the Saints..." broke out with a load of QPR fans hugging us and shaking hands and everything.

 

Absolutely tremendous.

 

That's because you were in R's stomping ground. Not sure you would have got a warm welcome if you were down bottom of Kings Road after dark.

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smash and grab

willian was brilliant, looked in the corner of his eye and noticed stekelenburg off his line

come on

Certainly a brilliantly taken free kick but Willian was cheating, having moved the ball about 5 yards nearer the goal than where offence by Romeu occurred. Unlikely that there would have been a goal chance from the correct spot - just check the highlights and look at the mowing pattern on the grass to see it for yourself.

You have to wonder if Mourinho has coached his team on cheating when you consider the fouls on Mané, done by treading on his foot to make the foul less obvious and the shirt pulling whilst appearing to look in a different direction, to stop Van Dijk getting to the ball from a corner. If you put those actions together with the Manager's ludicrous rant against the referee and his failure to acknowledge decisions given wrongly in favour of his team, it looks like it could be a deliberate tactic. At least the ref did spot the dive over Stekelenburg.

Having just escaped any punishment by the FA for his appalling treatment of the Chelsea team doctor Mourinho may regard the FA as toothless.

Edited by Professor
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That's because you were in R's stomping ground. Not sure you would have got a warm welcome if you were down bottom of Kings Road after dark.

 

Oh of course, I wondered why all those people in QPR shirts kept hugging me. :rolleyes:

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Certainly a brilliantly taken free kick but Willian was cheating, having moved the ball about 5 yards nearer the goal than where offence by Romeu occurred. Unlikely that there would have been a goal chance from the correct spot - just check the highlights and look at the mowing pattern on the grass to see it for yourself.

You have to wonder if Mourinho has coached his team on cheating when you consider the fouls on Mané, done by treading on his foot to make the foul less obvious and the shirt pulling whilst appearing to look in a different direction, to stop Van Dijk getting to the ball from a corner. If you put those actions together with the Manager's ludicrous rant against the referee and his failure to acknowledge decisions given wrongly in favour of his team, it looks like it could be a deliberate tactic. At least the ref did spot the dive over Stekelenburg.

Having just escaped any punishment by the FA for his appalling treatment of the Chelsea team doctor Mourinho may regard the FA as toothless.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if he did encourage his players in the art of gamesmanship (cheating). I believe that it is a trait particularly of the managers and players from Southern Europe and the Latin American countries, who are the most adept at diving theatrically, feigning injury, moving the ball forwards, shirt-pulling, moaning at the ref, etc. Success at the top is now down to such fine margins that any advantage that can be gained will be taken, however unethical.

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It wouldn't surprise me if he did encourage his players in the art of gamesmanship (cheating). I believe that it is a trait particularly of the managers and players from Southern Europe and the Latin American countries, who are the most adept at diving theatrically, feigning injury, moving the ball forwards, shirt-pulling, moaning at the ref, etc. Success at the top is now down to such fine margins that any advantage that can be gained will be taken, however unethical.

 

Mourinho invented the concept of moving a player to the far side of the pitch when being substituted so it would waste time as the refs only add 45 seconds on no matter how long the stoppage actually is.

 

I would be a hypocrite if I didn't point out that we could have at least learned that from him when bringing Yoshida on in injury time took less than 30 seconds to execute thus theoretically adding 15 more seconds to the match, but thankfully the ref didn't add a single second more than the already-indicated 5 minutes on for it anyway.

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Mourinho invented the concept of moving a player to the far side of the pitch when being substituted so it would waste time as the refs only add 45 seconds on no matter how long the stoppage actually is.

 

I would be a hypocrite if I didn't point out that we could have at least learned that from him when bringing Yoshida on in injury time took less than 30 seconds to execute thus theoretically adding 15 more seconds to the match, but thankfully the ref didn't add a single second more than the already-indicated 5 minutes on for it anyway.

 

Wasn't overly sure where the 5 minutes came from to be honest?

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It wouldn't surprise me if he did encourage his players in the art of gamesmanship (cheating). I believe that it is a trait particularly of the managers and players from Southern Europe and the Latin American countries, who are the most adept at diving theatrically, feigning injury, moving the ball forwards, shirt-pulling, moaning at the ref, etc. Success at the top is now down to such fine margins that any advantage that can be gained will be taken, however unethical.

 

It's been happening for years. The concept of 'sport' disappeared a long time ago.

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I thought it's the Fourth Official who tots up the time added? His watch is more sophisticated than mine as I too couldn't see where that five minutes came from.

 

No, always the referee, he is the one who stops his watch during the game. These days they are all wired up but previously you could see the referee signalling by tapping his hand against his thigh to show the number of minutes. In yesterday's game they showed Wenger walking over to the fourth official to ask how long and the official had his hand to his earpiece at the time.

 

The referee does not actually have to tell the players how long is left although that would probably be considered bad manners. It's a bit difficult to hide when there's a giant scoreboard of course.

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Game management and tactical awareness is one of the things that all players are appraised on when scouting them - in fact I think I read an article in the last few years where many scouts said it is now one of the most important things clubs look for.

 

Wasting time has long been about, it's a valid part of the game as far as I am concerned and I don't mind it, even if it is unsporting.

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According to Dermot Gallagher on SSN both VvD's assault and Mane's foul were penalties (although he did say that he probably wouldn't have given Mane's in real time due his exaggerated fall making it look more like a dive); whereas, he said the ref got Falcao's dive spot on!

 

Which all just makes Jose's rant seem even more stupid than it already did at the time he made it.

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According to Dermot Gallagher on SSN both VvD's assault and Mane's foul were penalties (although he did say that he probably wouldn't have given Mane's in real time due his exaggerated fall making it look more like a dive); whereas, he said the ref got Falcao's dive spot on!

 

Which all just makes Jose's rant seem even more stupid than it already did at the time he made it.

 

I think that's a fair assessment. Bear in mind that each referee is different and has his own threshold for awarding penalties. I think that Mané's first incident where he threw himself to the floor after having his foot trod on (touched?) did not help his cause and possibly led to his booking for another perceived dive.

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I think that's a fair assessment. Bear in mind that each referee is different and has his own threshold for awarding penalties. I think that Mané's first incident where he threw himself to the floor after having his foot trod on (touched?) did not help his cause and possibly led to his booking for another perceived dive.

 

I think half the problem with Mane is that he is too quick for players and referees. Unless they provide a guideline on how a player at pace needs to fall over then surely he was either fouled or not. On this occasion and the booking incident he was caught and went down as a result. The ref didn't see either clearly so didn't give the pen / freekick.

 

Although its really interesting that the ref went to blow his whistle (moving it towards his mouth) and then changed his mind. In my mind the instinct was to give the foul until he realised it was inside the box. If it had been outside it would likely have been given.

 

Falcao's claim was the classic go down because he thought he was going to get touched. I think the reason he didn't give the pen was that he knew he had ****ed up in the first half.

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According to Dermot Gallagher on SSN both VvD's assault and Mane's foul were penalties (although he did say that he probably wouldn't have given Mane's in real time due his exaggerated fall making it look more like a dive); whereas, he said the ref got Falcao's dive spot on!

 

Which all just makes Jose's rant seem even more stupid than it already did at the time he made it.

 

He's not wrong - in real time, it looked like Mane threw his arms in the air and went down easily. It was only on replay that you realise he had his foot trodden on - but he still threw his arms in the air a bit theatrically :lol:

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I think half the problem with Mane is that he is too quick for players and referees.

 

The problem is that he's a diver and has had his card marked by referees, so now when he does get legitimately fouled refs are not going to give it. He only has himself to blame for that

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He's not wrong - in real time, it looked like Mane threw his arms in the air and went down easily. It was only on replay that you realise he had his foot trodden on - but he still threw his arms in the air a bit theatrically :lol:

 

It's the leg that wasn't trodden on that gives it away. it doesn't make a natural movement. There's nothing wrong with raisng your whistle and then not blowing it.

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According to Dermot Gallagher on SSN both VvD's assault and Mane's foul were penalties (although he did say that he probably wouldn't have given Mane's in real time due his exaggerated fall making it look more like a dive); whereas, he said the ref got Falcao's dive spot on!

 

Which all just makes Jose's rant seem even more stupid than it already did at the time he made it.

He is such a roaring egotist that he would think he was right no matter how many people disagree and no matter how strong the evidence against him is. The best thing to do is laugh at him.

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He's nor wrong - in real time, it looked like Mane threw his arms in the air and went down easily. It was only on replay that you realise he had his foot trodden on - but he still threw his arms in the air a bit theatrically :lol:

 

A foul's a foul all the same!! He did exaggerate the fall but that shouldn't be here not there. Players might be more inclined to try and stay on their feet if referees still gave the penalty if a goal is not scored from the advantage. Then to be booked for diving for what was also a nailed on foul, was ridiculous.

Edited by krissyboy31
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And what was the ref's excuse for missing the VVD shirt pull?

 

If he didn't notice he did have two dudes with flags - and the 4th official could have given that one from the car park.

Jose is right, we need more honesty from officials blah blah rant etc.

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According to Dermot Gallagher on SSN both VvD's assault and Mane's foul were penalties (although he did say that he probably wouldn't have given Mane's in real time due his exaggerated fall making it look more like a dive); whereas, he said the ref got Falcao's dive spot on!

 

Which all just makes Jose's rant seem even more stupid than it already did at the time he made it.

 

And the irony being that Jose has just been charged by the FA for his post match comments about referee bias! If only Jose had said the bias was the other way, I wonder how the FA would have reacted....

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According to Dermot Gallagher on SSN both VvD's assault and Mane's foul were penalties (although he did say that he probably wouldn't have given Mane's in real time due his exaggerated fall making it look more like a dive); whereas, he said the ref got Falcao's dive spot on!

 

Which all just makes Jose's rant seem even more stupid than it already did at the time he made it.

 

Chelsea's would have been a penalty... IF he hadn't dived first.

 

It was the equivalent of missing an open goal from a yard out, we were lucky that the player was stupid enough to dive when he didn't need to, and lucky that the ref spotted it. (Although I wouldn't be surprised if the ref thought he was evening things up.) In any case, the correct decision was made.

 

Mourinho's rant was nothing more than a desperate attempt to shift focus and blame away from himself. Normally when he starts going off like that, it's to draw the focus to himself and take the pressure off the players, but here he was shifting some of the blame onto the players themselves, as well as the referee. Unless Chelsea can suddenly turn it around and go on a winning streak to drag themselves back into the top four race, I think he'll either walk or be pushed before Christmas.

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Several people have rightly made the point that Mané's theatrical dives when he is fouled work against him, but the blame for that could be shared with the coaches who should have been explaining this too him for as long as he's been here.

 

As for Mourinho's mindless rant he overlooked that penalty incidents are always analysed on national TV. When Mourinho refused to comment on the fouls committed in the area by his players, Lineker clearly took great pleasure in conducting a discussion about it on MotD. Outcome was another severe dent in Mourinho's already tarnished reputation.

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And what was the ref's excuse for missing the VVD shirt pull?

 

If he didn't notice he did have two dudes with flags - and the 4th official could have given that one from the car park.

Jose is right, we need more honesty from officials blah blah rant etc.

 

He was looking towards the corner at the time. I suspect that defenders watch the ref whilst they engage in shirt pulling. One assistant was miles away down the far touchline and the other is looking through a crowd of players. It takes a lot of balls for an assistant to give a penalty in this situation and in fact I can't remember it happening. These situations are covered in the officials' pre-match briefing with the instructions to the assistant being that he'd better be absolutely certain before flagging. The assistant can't be certain that it isn't a two-way thing. The fourth official only gets involved with disciplinary matters such as player identification.

 

This shirt pulling goes on in every game and is often highlighted by the TV. Something should be done.

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He was looking towards the corner at the time. I suspect that defenders watch the ref whilst they engage in shirt pulling. One assistant was miles away down the far touchline and the other is looking through a crowd of players. It takes a lot of balls for an assistant to give a penalty in this situation and in fact I can't remember it happening. These situations are covered in the officials' pre-match briefing with the instructions to the assistant being that he'd better be absolutely certain before flagging. The assistant can't be certain that it isn't a two-way thing. The fourth official only gets involved with disciplinary matters such as player identification.

 

This shirt pulling goes on in every game and is often highlighted by the TV. Something should be done.

Blocking and holding is one thing but the ref must be able to see when the back of VvD's shirt is closer to Ivanovic' torso than Vvd's back.

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And what was the ref's excuse for missing the VVD shirt pull?

 

If he didn't notice he did have two dudes with flags - and the 4th official could have given that one from the car park.

Jose is right, we need more honesty from officials blah blah rant etc.

 

He was looking at the ball - like you're not meant to as a ref because you miss the fouls. Wouldn't have seen it from the car park, I can confirm the second back row of the lower tier was far enough away to not know what had happened.

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You'd hope so but these players are very skilled at hiding what they do from the officials.

 

Not in this case. Anything where you can see an undershirt or the skin of a player's torso should be a foul immediately. If the ref is looking, which he wasn't. Compare that incident to the penalty given against Fonte at the Emirates in the game Boruc did his Cruyff turn, where his shirt was pulled first and then a penalty given against him for pulling someone back to try and get back into position.

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Indeed, Lou. Good read - especially the argument that Saints' youth pipeline is still working well, despite competition for places from players bought in.

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He was looking at the ball -

He clearly turned his head and was looking straight at the incident before it finished. If he didn't see what was happening then he really does need to consider a trip to Specsavers. Did he think that VvD had removed his own shirt because he had got a bit hot or something?

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great read.

 

this part was pretty interesting..

A little side note on Rahman. A whisper came out of Chelsea last week that the deal to sign the left back from FC Augsburg is so heavily incentivised that if he plays a certain number of games this season, then Chelsea will have to pay the German outfit a significant sum of money.

 

According to the man doing the whispering, Chelsea would prefer to pay that money in a new financial year, next season, and that means that the club must be awfully close to the Financial Fair Play limit.

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Very interesting, thanks for that. I wonder how difficult it is to motivate players who have just won the title the previous season. Do they still have the same hunger?

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Very interesting, thanks for that. I wonder how difficult it is to motivate players who have just won the title the previous season. Do they still have the same hunger?

 

Gary Neville's spoken about this quite a lot over the last few weeks. He said compalcency could creep in with some United teams in early games but it would be stamped out quickly by Ferguson. That may have been Chelsea's problem a month or two ago but I don't think anyone can accuse them of being complacent this deep into a bad run.

 

The Secret Footballer can't like us that much - or can't watch us that much - if he thinks this was the first time Pelle pinned down defenders and laid the ball off.

Edited by DuncanRG
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