A wasted Summer?

[Lighthouse]

You guys realise Cedric is 24 and only 4 games into his debut Premier League season yeah?

 

Not sure I like this trend for instant gratification from signings. We used to give them time.

 

Silence!

 

Cedric is useless and will never ever ever be good enough for us. Furthermore Les is obviously an idiot for signing a player who isn't immediately our first choice. Also, Koeman is a fool for choosing a taller, more defensive, experienced player to combat Depay and Fellaini.

[shurlock]

Silence!

 

Cedric is useless and will never ever ever be good enough for us. Furthermore Les is obviously an idiot for signing a player who isn't immediately our first choice. Also, Koeman is a fool for choosing a taller, more defensive, experienced player to combat Depay and Fellaini.

 

You're still persisting with your ridiculous Fellaini point and Yoshida was picked because he's taller? Good lad

[Greenridge]

You're still persisting with your ridiculous Fellaini point and Yoshida was picked because he's taller? Good lad

 

Maybe that's the real reason why we sold Clyne. He was too short.

[david in sweden]

We buy a right back that our manager doesn't think is good enough for big games? That's a big problem.

 

....surely more a case of playing a " relatively short " defender against a team with tall opponents..not to mention that Yoshida's 50+ caps meant he's more experienced.

 

Had it not been for that suicidal back pass for their second goal, people would have said that Yoshida played well.......(all things considered).

[Whitey Grandad]

Silence!

 

Cedric is useless and will never ever ever be good enough for us. Furthermore Les is obviously an idiot for signing a player who isn't immediately our first choice. Also, Koeman is a fool for choosing a taller, more defensive, experienced player to combat Depay and Fellaini.

 

Did I miss Fellaini? Perhaps he's had a haircut or something. Whichever, his choice didn't work out too well yesterday.

[Whitey Grandad]

....surely more a case of playing a " relatively short " defender against a team with tall opponents..not to mention that Yoshida's 50+ caps meant he's more experienced.

 

Had it not been for that suicidal back pass for their second goal, people would have said that Yoshida played well.......(all things considered).

 

That's like saying 'Apart from that Mrs Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play?'

[baggytrousers]

Juanmi

Romeu

Soares

Clasie

Van Dijk

Caulker

 

Juanmi, Clasie and Caulker have played a total of 9 minutes of Premiership football between them this year. Possibly a touch early to write them off.

 

As for Romeu, Soares and Van Dijk I've been impressed by what I've seen of them so far.

 

Bertrand and Mane were probably less impressive after their first few games last year and look where they ended up.

 

I actually think we've done some really good business this summer and at some point that will show.

 

Frustrating for everyone that it hasn't happened yet but to describe these players as rookies is completely wide of the mark.

 

Clasie was playing central midfield for Holland against Brazil in the World Cup last year but on the basis of one game that we won 3-0 and he pulled a hamstring he's being written off.

 

Juanmi has played up front for Spain, Soares is Portugal's regular right-back. Even Caulker has played for England.

 

Not rookies but also not fully up to speed just yet.

 

They'll get there though.

 

In the meantime we need to get behind them and give them as much backing as we can.

 

Momentum is everything (compare Chelsea's season thus far to Leicester and West Ham) and that, more than anything, is what we're currently lacking.

 

Good players, shaky start.

[Saint Without a Halo]

It isn't "speculation", its what actually happened. Koeman would rather play a 2nd choice centre back out of position, than our new first choice right back. Does that not concern you at all?

 

The speculation I refer to is not around what happened but why it happened!

We do not know that Koeman believes Yoshida to be a better defender than Soares on every occasion but only that he preferred him on this occasion, against this opposition, under these tactics. My point is managers can make one off decisions based on the strengths and weaknesses they perceive both in their and in the oppositions teams. We are not privy to these thoughts also we don't know what physical condition he was in last week or even how he performed last week in training. All these are possible reasons leading to a one match preference of Yoshi over Soares. You have extrapolated this one match change to mean that he is not good enough for his position in general and that Koeman will always prefer Yoshi over him. I believe it is far to early to reach this conclusion based on very little statistical back up. If Yoshi were to play instead of Soares in say 50% of all matches you may be right but you have formed a conclusion based on one matchs evidence only. That is the speculation I refer to.

[Saint Without a Halo]

Koeman said before the game that he played Yoshiday because Cedric isn't good defensively! There is also no reason to be concerned about Man Utd's height! As highlighted above, this isn't an isolated occurance so far!

 

I am not saying it was the right decision I am only saying we don't know the real reasons why Koeman made it (height experience etc are all possible)and that you cannot draw the conclusion that Cedric is a crap right back because Koeman left him out for one or even a few games. I am sure we all remember Poch leaving out Clyne and preferring Chambers (subsequently a central defender) in many matches the season before last, it didn't mean Clyne was therefore a poor buy or a useless right back did it? All I am saying is you cannot speculate that Koeman thinks he is not up to it based on him being left out in a few matches! He is a young lad new to the premiere league and the UK lets cut him a bit of slack and support the boy he may yet come good.

[Whitey Grandad]

The speculation I refer to is not around what happened but why it happened!

We do not know that Koeman believes Yoshida to be a better defender than Soares on every occasion but only that he preferred him on this occasion, against this opposition, under these tactics. My point is managers can make one off decisions based on the strengths and weaknesses they perceive both in their and in the oppositions teams. We are not privy to these thoughts also we don't know what physical condition he was in last week or even how he performed last week in training. All these are possible reasons leading to a one match preference of Yoshi over Soares. You have extrapolated this one match change to mean that he is not good enough for his position in general and that Koeman will always prefer Yoshi over him. I believe it is far to early to reach this conclusion based on very little statistical back up. If Yoshi were to play instead of Soares in say 50% of all matches you may be right but you have formed a conclusion based on one matchs evidence only. That is the speculation I refer to.

 

I don't think it's a question of Yoshi not being good enough, although that can be debated separately, more that he wasn't playing in a familiar and well-drilled formation which meant that he wasn't making his movement and passing instinctively and this led directly to Mata getting between into the gap between him and the central defenders for their first and him playing the ball back into space.

[Dig Dig]

I am not saying it was the right decision I am only saying we don't know the real reasons why Koeman made it (height experience etc are all possible)and that you cannot draw the conclusion that Cedric is a crap right back because Koeman left him out for one or even a few games. I am sure we all remember Poch leaving out Clyne and preferring Chambers (subsequently a central defender) in many matches the season before last, it didn't mean Clyne was therefore a poor buy or a useless right back did it? All I am saying is you cannot speculate that Koeman thinks he is not up to it based on him being left out in a few matches! He is a young lad new to the premiere league and the UK lets cut him a bit of slack and support the boy he may yet come good.

 

Koeman said pre game that he didn't pick him because he's not as strong defensively. Not something you want to hear regarding your first choice RB. This is also not an isolated incident. Cedric has either lost his place completely or been subbed in the majority of games so far. The difference between Clyne and Chambers is that Chambers was a competent RB who didn't impact the shape and style of our play in comparison to Yoshida or Martina.

[Saint Without a Halo]

I don't think it's a question of Yoshi not being good enough, although that can be debated separately, more that he wasn't playing in a familiar and well-drilled formation which meant that he wasn't making his movement and passing instinctively and this led directly to Mata getting between into the gap between him and the central defenders for their first and him playing the ball back into space.

 

Sorry I should have said prefers him at right back not defender! No slight intended on Yoshi who after all is a Centre back and as you rightly point out was filling in to a role he has less experience in also if you look at the replay Fonte clearly gestures to Yoshi to play the ball back to the keeper so neither Fonte or Yoshi spotted Martial and unfortunately the ball was also under hit.

[sotonist]

Koeman said pre game that he didn't pick him because he's not as strong defensively. Not something you want to hear regarding your first choice RB. This is also not an isolated incident. Cedric has either lost his place completely or been subbed in the majority of games so far. The difference between Clyne and Chambers is that Chambers was a competent RB who didn't impact the shape and style of our play in comparison to Yoshida or Martina.

 

you mean the difference between our yoshida and chambers, is that chambers could pull it off as a like for like replacement.

 

we might be better off getting Richardson and harding back at the moment tbh.

[Sour Mash]

The speculation I refer to is not around what happened but why it happened!

We do not know that Koeman believes Yoshida to be a better defender than Soares on every occasion but only that he preferred him on this occasion, against this opposition, under these tactics. My point is managers can make one off decisions based on the strengths and weaknesses they perceive both in their and in the oppositions teams. We are not privy to these thoughts also we don't know what physical condition he was in last week or even how he performed last week in training. All these are possible reasons leading to a one match preference of Yoshi over Soares. You have extrapolated this one match change to mean that he is not good enough for his position in general and that Koeman will always prefer Yoshi over him. I believe it is far to early to reach this conclusion based on very little statistical back up. If Yoshi were to play instead of Soares in say 50% of all matches you may be right but you have formed a conclusion based on one matchs evidence only. That is the speculation I refer to.

No-one said its on every occasion. But its been more than once this season already.

[Batman]

No-one said its on every occasion. But its been more than once this season already.

 

unless cedric improves greatly, we will have to buy ANOTHER right back....with cedric and martina on the books too

 

buy cheap, buy twice

[Sour Mash]

unless cedric improves greatly, we will have to buy ANOTHER right back....with cedric and martina on the books too

 

buy cheap, buy twice

I can see his potential and I can see him improving. But dropping Yoshida or whoever else into the right back slot is no long term solution, its not something we should be doing having just bought two new right backs.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

15th most expensive squad in Europe

 

and still cant defend

 

very average summer window

 

But Everton they are...fantastic at everything

[Donatello]

Koeman said in the week Juanmi was struggling to adapt to the pace and physicality of English football but has been training well and will get his chance. Hopefully starts on Wednesday.

 

Where was this said? Please and thank youzzzz.

[Lighthouse]

Did I miss Fellaini? Perhaps he's had a haircut or something. Whichever, his choice didn't work out too well yesterday.

 

So Koeman knew several hours before the game when he picked his team that Fellaini would play no part in the game?

 

You would also rather have a player who is weak defensively against Memphis Depay?

 

Actually, aside from Yoshi's error for the second goal it worked out reasonably well. If the lino had gone to specsavers or some bloke in Madrid knew how to send a fax, we'd have won yesterday, even in spit of our lackluster performance second half.

[doddisalegend]

Koeman said in the week Juanmi was struggling to adapt to the pace and physicality of English football but has been training well and will get his chance. Hopefully starts on Wednesday.

 

Not sure how he could assess that. How many minutes of PL football has Juanmi actually played to able to decide he can't cope with the PL at the current time?

[saint97]

Don't agree with the assessment of most the players. Martina does look horrendous though. Think Van Dijk and Clasie will be very good signings. Cedric obviously isn't trusted by Koeman, and is nowhere near as good as some have been saying but does look good going forward. It is pretty obvious that it's hard to replace your best players every single summer and the same will happen again next summer. (Mané and Wanyama)

It does look like we've fallen behind West Ham now and maybe even Swansea.

[Lighthouse]

Don't agree with the assessment of most the players. Martina does look horrendous though. Think Van Dijk and Clasie will be very good signings. Cedric obviously isn't trusted by Koeman, and is nowhere near as good as some have been saying but does look good going forward. It is pretty obvious that it's hard to replace your best players every single summer and the same will happen again next summer. (Mané and Wanyama)

It does look like we've fallen behind West Ham now and maybe even Swansea.

 

Only if they start looking like Champions League players, which so far this season they don't.

 

I don't think we're really that far off those two clubs either TBH. If one of them does go on to have a great season, they will pretty much follow our path anyway. Their best players will leave, Bilic will end up replacing Rodgers etc. etc.

[Dellman]

Its a bit sad and very foolish to write players off after six matches especially when some of them haven't played in many of the six matches. Why is the demand for instant success? It takes time to settle into any new job and especially if it involves learning the language and your teammates strengths and weaknesses. That will be going on behind the scenes. Give them all time and opportunity. So they haven't been instant successes but this is why we have top coaches. I'm hopeful. Fans are getting greedy, the progress is steady, this is only a small blip

[shurlock]

Its a bit sad and very foolish to write players off after six matches especially when some of them haven't played in many of the six matches. Why is the demand for instant success? It takes time to settle into any new job and especially if it involves learning the language and your teammates strengths and weaknesses. That will be going on behind the scenes. Give them all time and opportunity. So they haven't been instant successes but this is why we have top coaches. I'm hopeful. Fans are getting greedy, the progress is steady, this is only a small blip

 

Nobody's writing Cedric off; rather its that we clearly needed a player who could come in and do a job straight away, even if he was unlikely to match the high standards of his predecessor.

 

That's not Cedric's fault; that's the responsibility of recruitment. The irony, if you believe reports, is that the club itself had concerns about Cedric and initially saw him as an understudy or backup to Clyne.

[Saint Charlie]

Where was this said? Please and thank youzzzz.

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/bigadamsport/status/644888643413389312

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/bigadamsport/status/644888860468625408

[Pastor Patrón]

The utter snivelling crap posted on this forum after a defeat is incredible but expected at the same time with

some of the idiots we have on here.

 

Clueless and not worth the time to argue with

 

[Donatello]

Yeah, I don't think Soares is too bad a player and I can definitely see potential there, but as a whole process, to bring in two right backs and for both of them to be behind Yoshida is a worry, I don't think its too much to expect our new right back to be picked ahead of him.

 

Haha, the fact that disproves the claim in bold is literally a post or two above yours. Such is Koeman's preference for Yoshida, that he's started one league game (...the last game) out six at RB.

[Sour Mash]

Haha, the fact that disproves the claim in bold is literally a post or two above yours. Such is Koeman's preference for Yoshida, that he's started one league game (...the last game) out six at RB.

 

Who was picked as our right back yesterday?

[Black Sea Saint]

Juanmi, Clasie and Caulker have played a total of 9 minutes of Premiership football between them this year. Possibly a touch early to write them off.

 

As for Romeu, Soares and Van Dijk I've been impressed by what I've seen of them so far.

 

Bertrand and Mane were probably less impressive after their first few games last year and look where they ended up.

 

I actually think we've done some really good business this summer and at some point that will show.

 

Frustrating for everyone that it hasn't happened yet but to describe these players as rookies is completely wide of the mark.

 

Clasie was playing central midfield for Holland against Brazil in the World Cup last year but on the basis of one game that we won 3-0 and he pulled a hamstring he's being written off.

 

Juanmi has played up front for Spain, Soares is Portugal's regular right-back. Even Caulker has played for England.

 

Not rookies but also not fully up to speed just yet.

 

They'll get there though.

 

In the meantime we need to get behind them and give them as much backing as we can.

 

Momentum is everything (compare Chelsea's season thus far to Leicester and West Ham) and that, more than anything, is what we're currently lacking.

 

Good players, shaky start.

 

Oh I think you're right, but they are rookies and aren't as good as the players they've replaced right now, saying that one or two have potential. However, I'd still take Alderwerield over VVD, Schneiderlin over Clasie/Romeu and Clyne over Soares. I feel the club have gone backwards under the current senior management - Ralph and Reed. Imagine if we didn't have Koeman....

[Mr Biscuits]

 

Why am I strangely aroused?

[Donatello]

Who was picked as our right back yesterday?

 

If I have 10 ice creams and nine of those ice creams are Twisters, the remaining single ice cream being a Cornetto, you would draw the conclusion that I preferred Cornettos? Christ, I swear some of you guys on here are deliberately obtuse.

 

If Gazza starts within the next 100 games I look forward to you acknowledging his preferential status too

Edited 21 September, 2015 by Donatello

[charliemiller]

Cedric has the potential to be better than Clyne , he delivers a better end product and his movement attacking is generally more intelligent .

 

He just was not ready defensively to face Depay in Koemans opinion , that does not mean he is writing him off though .

[baggytrousers]

Oh I think you're right, but they are rookies and aren't as good as the players they've replaced right now, saying that one or two have potential. However, I'd still take Alderwerield over VVD, Schneiderlin over Clasie/Romeu and Clyne over Soares. I feel the club have gone backwards under the current senior management - Ralph and Reed. Imagine if we didn't have Koeman....

How do you know you'd prefer Schneiderlin over Clasie ? Clasie basically hasn't played yet.

[CB Fry]

Oh I think you're right, but they are rookies and aren't as good as the players they've replaced right now, saying that one or two have potential. However, I'd still take Alderwerield over VVD, Schneiderlin over Clasie/Romeu and Clyne over Soares. I feel the club have gone backwards under the current senior management - Ralph and Reed. Imagine if we didn't have Koeman....

You have no idea what the word rookie means, have you?

[JRM]

If I have 10 ice creams and nine of those ice creams are Twisters, the remaining single ice cream being a Cornetto, you would draw the conclusion that I preferred Cornettos? Christ, I swear some of you guys on here are deliberately obtuse.

 

If Gazza starts within the next 100 games I look forward to you acknowledging his preferential status too

 

That seems like a very strange way of looking at it, but if you must we've had 10 competitive matches this season of which Cedric has only started 5 I think, being dropped for important games Midjylland , Everton and Man Utd with Koeman clearly concerned that he couldn't offer enough strength in defence. That is a worry if he's been bought as our first choice right back. We should be aiming to get a settled back 5 to develop some consistency.

I think he has great potential so hopefully Cedric will develop the qualities required, full backs who had pace to attack were crucial to the way we played last year helping to create space for other attacking players.

[Mr Biscuits]

Just checking in to see if people are still crying

 

Yep.

[Donatello]

That seems like a very strange way of looking at it, but if you must we've had 10 competitive matches this season of which Cedric has only started 5 I think, being dropped for important games Midjylland , Everton and Man Utd with Koeman clearly concerned that he couldn't offer enough strength in defence. That is a worry if he's been bought as our first choice right back. We should be aiming to get a settled back 5 to develop some consistency.

I think he has great potential so hopefully Cedric will develop the qualities required, full backs who had pace to attack were crucial to the way we played last year helping to create space for other attacking players.

 

Care to explain how an analogy which highlights how X is selected over Y in order to show preference is erroneous?

 

Okay, if you must He started against Everton, he's started 6 games, and been on the bench for the remaining 4. Of those 4, one was away against Vitesse (3-0 up in tie - arguably rested), two were against FC Midtjylland (we all know why Koeman chose to do this, it's whether you agree or not - as stated at time, I thought Koeman employed arrogant tactics/selection, particularly away, in this tie). He got pretty dinged up away at Watford (head injury) in the game preceeding Midtjylland (H), which perhaps mitigates one of Koeman's decisions there. The forth game being United - for reasons Koeman stated (again, agree/disagree).

 

To summarise, 10 games/start opportunities (6 league, 4 europe). Cedric has accrued 6 starts (5 league, 1 europe). Yoshida has played RB 2 times (1 league, 1 europe). Martina has played RB 2 times (2 europe). It's a 60-20-20 percent split (starts) so far, of which I'm prepared to suggest that 20% was a reasonable alternative (I.e. rested against Vitesse (10%), a cautious benching at home against Midtjylland due to knock at sustained at Watford (10%)). That difference will only widen with time because Cedric will undoubtedly (evidently!) start more than 60% of league games (and we no longer have European games - where alternatives were being selected).

 

How is any of this an indication that Yoshida is preferred (the nature of comment I replied to) to both of our summer ('15) purchased right backs?

 

Edit: as always, corrections welcome (memory = sieve).

Edited 22 September, 2015 by Donatello

[Donatello]

Just checking in to see if people are still crying

 

Yep.

 

"Dry your eyes, mate. I know it's hard to take but Cedric has been starting."

[ibizasaint]

Cedric has the potential to be better than Clyne , he delivers a better end product and his movement attacking is generally more intelligent .

 

He just was not ready defensively to face Depay in Koemans opinion , that does not mean he is writing him off though .

 

 

Best post of the entire thread IMO.

[Lallana's Left Peg]

Best post of the entire thread IMO.

 

But if he never gets the chance to play against the best wingers in the league, how will he ever be known to be ready? He's 23 and Clyne's replacement - I think he should play accordingly.

[baggytrousers]

But if he never gets the chance to play against the best wingers in the league' date=' how will he ever be known to be ready? He's 23 and Clyne's replacement - I think he should play accordingly.[/quote']

 

I think we should have written off Clyne when Chambers was picked ahead of him. Selecting a kid who wasn't even a right back ahead of our supposed first choice. Clyne must have been rubbish mustn't he ?

[Lallana's Left Peg]

I think we should have written off Clyne when Chambers was picked ahead of him. Selecting a kid who wasn't even a right back ahead of our supposed first choice. Clyne must have been rubbish mustn't he ?

 

The only person who could be suggesting Soares is rubbish is Koeman as he is playing our third choice centre back ahead of him out of position.

[ibizasaint]

But if he never gets the chance to play against the best wingers in the league' date=' how will he ever be known to be ready? He's 23 and Clyne's replacement - I think he should play accordingly.[/quote']

 

Point taken- but i suppose that RK makes that decision based on what he sees in training at this point.

[Donatello]

The only person who could be suggesting Soares is rubbish is Koeman as he is playing our third choice centre back ahead of him out of position.

 

....twice. He's opted for Yoshida instead of Soares....twice (Man U, and Midtjylland (H), when you could argue Soares wasn't 100% fit). It's all above you in black and white. JWP/Davis have started ahead of Romeu - is Koeman suggesting he's rubbish too? Or is it more likely that Koeman picks teams which he believes exploit/cover the qualities/deficiencies of the teams we play? I.e. being adaptable/pragmatic (from his perspective)

Edited 22 September, 2015 by Donatello

[Lallana's Left Peg]

....twice. He's opted for Yoshida instead of Soares....twice (Man U, and Midtjylland (H), when you could argue Soares wasn't 100% fit). It's all above you in black and white. JWP/Davis have started ahead of Romeu - is Koeman suggesting he's rubbish too?

 

I would suggest there is a difference between rotating central midfielders in their natural position and shoehorning a centre-half who has weak distribution into a right-back spot.

 

This is my main issue: If Soares is known to be defensively weak (you would like to think the club were aware of this before we signed him), and yet he is immeasurably better than Martina, why didn't we buy another proper right back to compete with Soares (who has differing characteristics)? This would mean we don't have to play a centre-back at right-back. The only teams who do this crap are Tony Pulis long ball teams.

 

It's the same with Juanmi, club talked about pulling off a great deal etc. when we signed him and yet he has the body of a pre-pubescent 12 year old and he isn't in a condition to be able to contribute.

 

Of all the signings we made in the summer right now there is only ONE who is Koeman thinks is better than what we already have and that is VvD. That's a problem for me.

[eddie]

no idea what the fuss is about. He is clearly going to be our first choice RB, but even great players need time to bed in. Juanmi is clearly really talented, played at a good level, educated in a good academy, but Koeman has said he needs time. He may well become a starter 4-5 months down the line, but he just needs a bit of time.

 

Soares is a good full-back, and the management clearly want him to be the first choice going forward. They aren't idiots, it's not like they've suddenly realised we've bought a reserve RB but not a clyne replacement.

 

Just Koeman took the decision, for whatever reason right or wrong, that for this game Soares wouldn't be the best person to deal with a (albeit inconsistently so..) very strong winger.

 

Plus, Memphis turns inside a lot to shoot and rarely just stays out on the wing to cross. In that case, once he's running torward the centre of the park, having someone who is used to playing in the centre is probably a much better shout. But I'm just speculating around the selection.

 

In any case as ronald noted in his conference, he "hates" it when players pass back to the centre half or to the keeper. So it isn't all his 'cautious system' of playing as some are saying, because he's said that isn't what he wants them to do. I think its positive he notices that, I find it unbelievably frustrating

[sotonist]

Plus, Memphis turns inside a lot to shoot and rarely just stays out on the wing to cross. In that case, once he's running torward the centre of the park, having someone who is used to playing in the centre is probably a much better shout. But I'm just speculating around the selection

fair point. cedric didn't cope well when lukaku attacked from our right.

[Batman]

Plus, Memphis turns inside a lot to shoot and rarely just stays out on the wing to cross. In that case, once he's running torward the centre of the park, having someone who is used to playing in the centre is probably a much better shout. But I'm just speculating around the selection.

 

 

lets not pretend Memphis is world class.

he has been OK in the prem so far. nothing major

 

pretty damning that Cedric was not good enough to start against him

[Donatello]

I would suggest there is a difference between rotating central midfielders in their natural position and shoehorning a centre-half who has weak distribution into a right-back spot.

 

This is my main issue: If Soares is known to be defensively weak (you would like to think the club were aware of this before we signed him), and yet he is immeasurably better than Martina, why didn't we buy another proper right back to compete with Soares (who has differing characteristics)? This would mean we don't have to play a centre-back at right-back. The only teams who do this crap are Tony Pulis long ball teams.

 

It's the same with Juanmi, club talked about pulling off a great deal etc. when we signed him and yet he has the body of a pre-pubescent 12 year old and he isn't in a condition to be able to contribute.

 

Of all the signings we made in the summer right now there is only ONE who is Koeman thinks is better than what we already have and that is VvD. That's a problem for me.

 

Hmm, yeah, I somewhat accept that (rotating CMs), but Davis doesn't come close to resembling a DM, so I think his selection in that role is tactical (as opposed to rotation), I.e. he's playing in the DM position in namesake only (more freedom and whatnot). And I feel it's disingenuous to suggest that Yoshida is just a CB played at RB. He clearly has a versatility which other CBs don't possess (e.g. Fonte, Lovren, Caulker, Hoovield) - Adkins thought so too. CB isn't Blind's natural position but he does a job - I see Yoshida in the same vein (jack of all trades).

 

Again, I can see what you're driving at, but I feel it's a tad unrealistic. For Southampton to have Soares/Martina/Yoshi as RB options isn't *that* bad. Soares as the starter, Yoshi as the strong but blunt presence, and Martina as out and out balanced cover. You seem to be seeking another big purchase-big wage (relative) player, which is you're prerogative/expectation. I don't mind us having to become a tad Pulis-esque at times...it certainly won't be the norm. We won't have Craig Dawson-types playing RB for anything approaching the majority.

 

Reference Juanmi, that's just hyperbole. I can't be bothered to address it.

 

He thinks Romeu is better. He thinks Stek is better. He thinks Clasie is better. Soares. VVD. That's 5 from 8 (1st team signings). Martina and Caulker were Europa players. Juanmi is a mystery but only because he hasn't made many bench appearances - for that fee, I wouldn't expect him to waltz in and claim Tadic's/Mane's spot. He's Elia's/Djuricic's replacement. Both were labelled dross by many on this forum, so any improvement with Juanmi is a positive, right? And a status quo isn't regressive.

Edited 22 September, 2015 by Donatello

[The9]

However, I'd still take Alderwerield over VVD, Schneiderlin over Clasie/Romeu and Clyne over Soares

 

And how would you propose paying them?