Wise words form Theo Walcott......or ?

[david in sweden]

Theo Walcott (in a Telegraph interview) suggested young English players in Prem. clubs should take the opportunity to get game time with lower league clubs.

 

Theo of course - was with us whilst we were lower league; (as was Gareth Bale and Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain), and even then it was difficult for them to make the transition to the first team at their new clubs. Indeed Bale was a bit of a laughing stock at Spurs during his first season.

 

....And so it was interesting to see that Morgan Schneiderlin made a similar comment recently, stating he'd never have become the player he is, had it not been for his years with Saints when we were in L1 / Championship. The standard for becoming a succesful Prem. player is so demanding that only real game time - even at a lower level - is preferable to playing U21's - who are similarly inexperienced.

 

Whilst Roy Hodgson vainly searches for new talent capable of even getting us past the group stages of international tournaments, he surely realises that scoring goals against the likes of Andorra (fun though it is) is rather like playing our best English players ....against an L2 side.

 

He will get little help from the many " foreign-born" Prem. managers who (in the effort to hold on to their own jobs) are ready and willing to sign the best of their fellow countrymen they can be sure of, rather than introduce younger English talents.

The more than £100 million spent on German footballers brought in to English clubs will go a lot further to improving their national side... than it will ours.

 

Theo may have enjoyed a lot of success, also realises that being English in puts you in a distinct minority when it comes to playing in the Prem. side.

Perhaps more of our emerging talents should get "loan -outs", let's face it - if they can't cut it at Championship / L1 level - there's not much future in being at a Prem. club where you can't even get onto the bench - let alone off it .

Edited 7 September, 2015 by david in sweden
FROM Theo of course.

[Lallana's Left Peg]

There are zero incentives to developing good young players in the Premier League. Until there is an incentive, the emergence of international tournament winning class of players will not happen.

[John Boy Saint]

Interesting, We were watching the game with friends and "strangers" on Saturday evening, one of them piped up saying that Walcott Oxo Shaw and even Chambers would have been far better players if they had stayed at Southampton longer.

With Walcott in particular the discussion went on to say that he looks like a player with undoubted ability, but the bit that is missing is that he sometimes lacks knowing exactly what he is doing in certain situations, and had he stayed longer at Southampton that piece of the jigsaw wouldn't be missing; and that similar could be said about Oxo.

 

It has been said that while Wenger is a good Manager, developing players especially youngsters is not in his portfolio. Walcott has often been given as an example.

[Lallana's Left Peg]

 

It has been said that while Wenger is a good Manager, developing players especially youngsters is not in his portfolio. Walcott has often been given as an example.

 

Who has said this? They couldn't be more wrong if they tried. He is brilliant at it.

[doddisalegend]

Who has said this? They couldn't be more wrong if they tried. He is brilliant at it.

 

 

I think the reason some young players aren't perceived to do well at Arsenal has more to do with arsenals seemingly endless ability to injure players. Ramsey, Walcott, Wilshire and Oxo all seem to have had a horrendous amount of injuries as young Arsenal players which can't be good for their development.

[sadoldgit]

I think the issue with Theo is that first and foremost he isn't a "footballer". Football wasn't his main sport and I seem to remember that he came to it a little later in life. He has been playing catch up ever since and certainly when he first moved to Arsenal you could see that despite his athletic qualities and the fact that he could get himself into good positions, he did seem to lack a "footballing brain." He has improved a great deal but you can still see signs of lack of footballing nous at times.

[Batman]

I think the issue with Theo is that first and foremost he isn't a "footballer". Football wasn't his main sport and I seem to remember that he came to it a little later in life. He has been playing catch up ever since and certainly when he first moved to Arsenal you could see that despite his athletic qualities and the fact that he could get himself into good positions, he did seem to lack a "footballing brain." He has improved a great deal but you can still see signs of lack of footballing nous at times.

 

what a complete crock of shyte

[Window Cleaner]

Now let me see how many Championship games did Theo actually play for us before deciding he was too good for that level and needed to go to the Arse. 20 perhaps.

[SW5 SAINT]

Theo Walcott (in a Telegraph interview) suggested young English players in Prem. clubs should take the opportunity to get game time with lower league clubs.

 

Like he did you mean. Before baling (pun not intended) out at the first opportunity to earn mega bucks at a top four club.

[sadoldgit]

what a complete crock of shyte

 

Don't sit on the fence Delldays, tell us what you really think! I have had many conversations with Arsenal supporters on the same subject as well as with Saints fans on a previous forum. Just the other night the Premiership pundits were also talking about the same thing. But feel free to disagree.

[John Boy Saint]

Who has said this? They couldn't be more wrong if they tried. He is brilliant at it.

It was mentioned only last season on MOTD when talking about youngsters in the side, it might have even centered around Chambers costing a lot of money and having to pretty much find his feet rather than being specifically coached as he was with us, Walcott and Oxo taking their time to also nail down a permanent spot and position in the team was also mentioned......... both of them also cost the kind of money most teams would pay for a player you would expect to drop into the team pretty quickly, even with the money Arsenal have.

 

It was quite surprising to hear, but how often do you see someone roll off the Arsenal academy into the first team, league cup games aside.

[John B]

Now let me see how many Championship games did Theo actually play for us before deciding he was too good for that level and needed to go to the Arse. 20 perhaps.

 

Very true he played 21 games for us Bale 40 OXO 36

[sadoldgit]

what a complete crock of shyte

 

By the way, Alan Hansen said a few years ago that he didn't think that Theo Walcott had a "footballing brain" and although he has since said that Walcott has proved him wrong, he wouldnt have said it at the time if he didn't think that Walcott had some playing issues.

[iansums]

Have to agree with SOG on this. I have never thought of Walcott as a 'natural' footballer whereas I think Oxo is. I remember watching Oxo come on against Huddesfield for his debut in L1. After 5 mins I was thinking this kid will play for England. If Oxo had Walcott's pace and he was able to stay fit he would be world class.

[Batman]

Walcott is just over 1 in 3 goals/game. for someone with no footballing brain and seems to be always coming back from injury, that is incredible, you would have to say. for an 'athlete' to be able to produce that really.

[Sour Mash]

There are zero incentives to developing good young players in the Premier League. Until there is an incentive' date=' the emergence of international tournament winning class of players will not happen.[/quote'] Of course there is an incentive. Look how much Chelsea or Man City are currently sinking into their academies. The problem is, that's its such a high level for a young player to get into, they have to be close to world class to get a chance.

[Lallana's Left Peg]

Of course there is an incentive. Look how much Chelsea or Man City are currently sinking into their academies. The problem is, that's its such a high level for a young player to get into, they have to be close to world class to get a chance.

 

Don't think world class youngsters exist that much really. Well, a handful do every generation. So much money in the Premier League that it is far easier to buy ready-made rather than see if a youngster develops in your first team.

 

And even when a club does want to develop their own, the player is soon purchased by a bigger club - occasionally to play, often to stockpile and prevent competitors from signing them. Chelsea do it just as investments with no regard to playing them (I don't blame them - it's an issue with FFP).

 

Premier League is a real issue for the national team. That said, I do like the idea of Sterling and Chamberlain on the wings for England for the next 10 years.

[saint-crinny]

is the statement actually true though?

 

Like with all young footballers, it's hit and miss i think. Some might benefit from staying/playing the lower leagies, others might flourish at a big club.

 

For every Morgan/Lallana there is a Bale i'd suggest. I mean, Bale left after a season, but i can't imagine he could be a better player than he is now, if he'd done another season with us.

 

I just feel that getting games in men's football is obviously important, but if a player is good enough and has the right mentality, they'll make it and reach their potential. If they dont have both those things, they probably won't.

[Stud mark of doom]

Of course there is an incentive. Look how much Chelsea or Man City are currently sinking into their academies. The problem is, that's its such a high level for a young player to get into, they have to be close to world class to get a chance.

 

Perhaps they have to be world class and even then they may not get the chance to maintain it?

[John Boy Saint]

is the statement actually true though?

 

Like with all young footballers, it's hit and miss i think. Some might benefit from staying/playing the lower leagies, others might flourish at a big club.

 

For every Morgan/Lallana there is a Bale i'd suggest. I mean, Bale left after a season, but i can't imagine he could be a better player than he is now, if he'd done another season with us.

 

I just feel that getting games in men's football is obviously important, but if a player is good enough and has the right mentality, they'll make it and reach their potential. If they dont have both those things, they probably won't.

I always remember Saints Academy playing Villa Academy in the Academy Final at SMS when Bale was with us and had played quite a bit of the full season, there were lads like McGoldrick Dyer in the team, but Bales presence and demeanor in that game stood out he looked so much more like a seasoned pro due to him getting so much 1st team match time.

[Daft Kerplunk]

Who has said this? They couldn't be more wrong if they tried. He is brilliant at it.

 

Plenty of experts have said it, and it is perceptible to fans. Name the last player who Arsenal signed who actually improved as a player beyond just getting older and stronger? And then you have the answer. He is a great manager but developing players is not at all a strength, and players who go there, or any top club really should have done most of their growing as players before they arrive. All the Saints players who went to Arsenal would very likely be better players than they are now had they stayed with us for longer instead of being lured by more money and the glamour of 'training' with better players.

[Lallana's Left Peg]

Name the last player who Arsenal signed who actually improved as a player beyond just getting older and stronger?

 

From their current squad, the following young players have developed very nicely at Arsenal:

 

Jack Wilshere

Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain

Theo Walcott

Aaron Ramsey

Héctor Bellerín

 

And the following 'established' players too:

 

Santi Cazorla

Laurent Koscielny

 

And in terms of Wenger's history of young players:

 

Patrick Vieira

Thierry Henry

Cesc Fabregas

Nicolas Anelka

Kolo Toure

Ashley Cole

Robin Van Persie

 

Wenger has weaknesses as a Manager, but developing youth players and getting them to fulfil potential is one of his greatest strengths.

[sadoldgit]

Walcott is just over 1 in 3 goals/game. for someone with no footballing brain and seems to be always coming back from injury, that is incredible, you would have to say. for an 'athlete' to be able to produce that really.

 

I didn't say that he didn't go on to improve did I? And I would give more credence to what Arsenal fans and Alan Hansen have to say about him than a caped crusader From what I recall he used to be pulled up for, after getting himself in a good position through his pace, then choosing the wrong option. I even remember Saints fans saying the same thing many years ago.

[The9]

From their current squad, the following young players have developed very nicely at Arsenal:

 

Jack Wilshere

Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain

Theo Walcott

Aaron Ramsey

Héctor Bellerín

 

And the following 'established' players too:

 

Santi Cazorla

Laurent Koscielny

 

And in terms of Wenger's history of young players:

 

Patrick Vieira

Thierry Henry

Cesc Fabregas

Nicolas Anelka

Kolo Toure

Ashley Cole

Robin Van Persie

 

Wenger has weaknesses as a Manager, but developing youth players and getting them to fulfil potential is one of his greatest strengths.

 

Coquelin? Good enough that they decided not to buy Schneiderlin...

[suewhistle]

Have to agree with SOG on this. I have never thought of Walcott as a 'natural' footballer whereas I think Oxo is. I remember watching Oxo come on against Huddesfield for his debut in L1. After 5 mins I was thinking this kid will play for England. If Oxo had Walcott's pace and he was able to stay fit he would be world class.

 

It wasn't that game when I first saw him, but I had exactly the same thoughts. It might have been because he was playing a bit further back and hence more involved, but I definitely had a different opinion on him.

[Daft Kerplunk]

From their current squad, the following young players have developed very nicely at Arsenal:

 

Jack Wilshere

(has not achieved his full potential)

Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain

(has not achieved his full potential)

Theo Walcott

(has not achieved his full potential)

Aaron Ramsey

(has not achieved his full potential)

Héctor Bellerín

 

And the following 'established' players too:

 

Santi Cazorla

(was established already so not applicable)

Laurent Koscielny

(was established already so not applicable)

 

 

And in terms of Wenger's history of young players:

 

Patrick Vieira

(was already established)

Thierry Henry

(this one is a concession, Wenger played him in the right position after Juve had played him on the wing)

Cesc Fabregas

(was acquired from Barcelona's academy that produced one of the best crops of players in football history)

Nicolas Anelka

(was acquired acrimoniously from PSG and was good when he broke into the first team and started scoring straight away)

Kolo Toure

(was established already)

Ashley Cole

(fair, an academy product)

 

Robin Van Persie

(was established already)

 

 

Wenger has weaknesses as a Manager, but developing youth players and getting them to fulfil potential is one of his greatest strengths.

 

we should probably agree to differ, and who cares anyway, every Saints played who went to Arsenal ultimately made a decision that has stopped their progress as players,

[Plastic]

Walcott is just over 1 in 3 goals/game. for someone with no footballing brain and seems to be always coming back from injury, that is incredible, you would have to say. for an 'athlete' to be able to produce that really.

 

Inclined to agree. Believe Hansen made the comment, and then Walcott made him look like a fool by scoring a hat-trick against Croatia. Underestimate Theo at your peril should be the lesson.

[simo]

I think he's right very rarely are youngsters given time to develop while playing premier league football the expectation on them in the lower leagues is less and get they time to learn their trade and make mistakes along the way without having the spotlight on them!

[sadoldgit]

I don't think Hansen ever said he was rubbish, just that he didn't have a footballing brain. There is a difference.

[Lallana's Left Peg]

we should probably agree to differ, and who cares anyway, every Saints played who went to Arsenal ultimately made a decision that has stopped their progress as players,

 

We will definitely disagree! I would suggest that Walcott and Chamberlain have both progressed very well indeed. Chambers we will have to see but it doesn't look good for him at the moment.

[John Boy Saint]

We will definitely disagree! I would suggest that Walcott and Chamberlain have both progressed very well indeed. Chambers we will have to see but it doesn't look good for him at the moment.

But looking in from the outside, whilst they may have progressed the progression has appeared to be very laboured. Ok they have been hampered by injuries along the way, which is not good and as has been mentioned already easily acquired, If you look at Aaron Ramsey by comparison who is a similar age, up until that nasty leg break he was progressing at a much faster rate.

[Plastic]

From the start of the 2010-11 season all the way until his cruciate injury in January 2014 he was Arsenal's star performer. He's had more than his share of injuries but I can't see how anyone can claim he has underachieved or progressed slowly.

[OldNick]

I watched a bit of the German Scotland game, what English players can pass the ball and move like they do? It has to be a fundamental problem when our kids are young. We have the mindset of get stuck in and work rate. Any youngster under 8 if not 10 should spend hours a week passing and ball control. Once they are comfortable working with a ball then the running jumping and getting stuck in can then develop

[Daft Kerplunk]

From the start of the 2010-11 season all the way until his cruciate injury in January 2014 he was Arsenal's star performer. He's had more than his share of injuries but I can't see how anyone can claim he has underachieved or progressed slowly.

 

it is not about achievement, it is about has the player reached their full potential, which plenty of people can reason Theo hasn't since he went to Arsenal other than becoming bigger and stronger. He has become an older stronger version of the player that played for Saints, not a player who has added different dimensions to his game.

[sadoldgit]

Take someone like JRod. He wasn't the finished article when we bought him but we could all see how he improved. I don't think you could see that development with Walcott. and I accept that the numerous injuries probably have not helped him.