Lets B Avenue Posted 5 September, 2015 Posted 5 September, 2015 Nice to see Clyne is now worthy of an England place. Wonder what has happened to change Hodgson's mind since June?
shurlock Posted 5 September, 2015 Posted 5 September, 2015 Luke Shaw has completely regressed since leaving. He's been very good for united this season.
angelman Posted 5 September, 2015 Posted 5 September, 2015 I caught 5 minutes here and there, and it was so boring that I went back to the cricket even though I know we have no chance at all of winning it. Or rather, little chance of winning, but if we do, it will be damn exciting.
alpine_saint Posted 5 September, 2015 Posted 5 September, 2015 Nice to see Clyne is now worthy of an England place. Wonder what has happened to change Hodgson's mind since June? Proof (if ever it were needed) that Hodgson is a c**t complicit in the tapping-up of Saints players on England duty.
alpine_saint Posted 5 September, 2015 Posted 5 September, 2015 the ref has made an incredible howler, in england's favour.....surely? about right, rooney equals the goal tally with a penalty against san marino I read somewhere that about 90% of his goal tally are from friendlies, compared to Charltons being 90% from qualifiers or tournaments.
Whitey Grandad Posted 5 September, 2015 Posted 5 September, 2015 Were making hard work of this but Walcott makes it 4 with his first touch.
Trader Posted 5 September, 2015 Posted 5 September, 2015 Clyne is obviously now good enough to play for England, what with him being a liverpool player 'nall.
igsey Posted 5 September, 2015 Posted 5 September, 2015 (edited) Luke Shaw sure still can't score a goal http://streamable.com/jo9y Edited 5 September, 2015 by igsey
Graffito Posted 5 September, 2015 Posted 5 September, 2015 Enjoyed the scenery. All those hills and trees. Very scenic. One positive, though qualified by the standard of opponent, Shelvey. Also, Hoddle is annoyingly perceptive.
Saint Billy Posted 5 September, 2015 Posted 5 September, 2015 I still think hodgson picks his sides according to the grief he might receive if players get injured. Walcott should have obviously started but Arson is a moany barsteward if any of his players get injured on international duty.
spyinthesky Posted 5 September, 2015 Posted 5 September, 2015 If you had the choice of one player from the England squad to improve Saints line up, who would it be?
S-Clarke Posted 5 September, 2015 Posted 5 September, 2015 If you had the choice of one player from the England squad to improve Saints line up, who would it be? One from Shelvey and Barkley, exactly the sort we could do with in CM.
Pancake Posted 5 September, 2015 Posted 5 September, 2015 One from Shelvey and Barkley, exactly the sort we could do with in CM. This, I've been a Shelvey fan for a while.
angelman Posted 5 September, 2015 Posted 5 September, 2015 Luke Shaw sure still can't score a goal http://streamable.com/jo9y Cos he doesn't use his right foot.
SW5 SAINT Posted 5 September, 2015 Posted 5 September, 2015 I read somewhere that about 90% of his goal tally are from friendlies, compared to Charltons being 90% from qualifiers or tournaments. And the most (5) against San Marino. Charlton would never haver played against teams like San Marino because they didn't exist as an international teams in his day.
Batman Posted 5 September, 2015 Posted 5 September, 2015 And the most (5) against San Marino. Charlton would never haver played against teams like San Marino because they didn't exist as an international teams in his day. Rooneys record at major competitions is horrendous
iansums Posted 5 September, 2015 Posted 5 September, 2015 Proof (if ever it were needed) that Hodgson is a c**t complicit in the tapping-up of Saints players on England duty.
Black Sea Saint Posted 5 September, 2015 Posted 5 September, 2015 One from Shelvey and Barkley, exactly the sort we could do with in CM. But we've got JWP
angelman Posted 5 September, 2015 Posted 5 September, 2015 (edited) And the most (5) against San Marino. Charlton would never haver played against teams like San Marino because they didn't exist as an international teams in his day. Looking at some facts.... Friendlies - Rooney 14 goals, Charlton 32 Qualifiers - Rooney 28 goals, Charlton 12 European - Rooney 6 goals, Charlton 1 World Cup - Rooney 1 goal, Charlton 4 Edited 5 September, 2015 by angelman
Saint_clark Posted 5 September, 2015 Posted 5 September, 2015 Looking at some facts.... Friendlies - Rooney 14 goals, Charlton 32 Qualifiers - Rooney 28 goals, Charlton 12 European - Rooney 6 goals, Charlton 1 World Cup - Rooney 1 goal, Charlton 4 Where are those from?
badgerx16 Posted 5 September, 2015 Posted 5 September, 2015 (edited) I tried to work out how many of England's starting 11 had come through an academy at one of the 'top 6', ( Man U, Man C, Chelski, Arsenal, Liverpool, or Spuds ), ie being at one of those clubs on their 16th birthday - I think the answer is none. Extending the analysis to the full match squad, I reckon there are 5, ( Kane and Mason at Spurs, Liverpool signed Sterling from QPR aged 15, Heaton was at Man Utd for a while, and Gibbs was about 15 when he joined Arsenal after Wimbledon disbanded ). Glad to know that by comparison Saints developed 3 of them. Edited 5 September, 2015 by badgerx16
angelman Posted 5 September, 2015 Posted 5 September, 2015 (edited) Where are those from? Out there but it might be a little wrong, as Friendly goals... 2 vs Portugal 1 vs Soviet Union 1 vs Italy 3 vs USA (which we won 8-1) 1 vs Sweden 3 vs Mexico (which we won 8-0) 1 vs Czech 1 vs East Germany 3 vs Switzerland (which we won 8-10 1 vs Portugal 1 vs USA (this time beating them 10-0) 1 vs Austria 1 vs Yugoslavia 1 vs Sweden 1 vs Colombia 22, but then if you include the Home Championship (excluding those in 1966/67 and 67/68 that counted as Euro Qualifiers) as these were friendlies.....there were 5 goals vs Scotland, 5 vs Northern Ireland and 3 vs Wales....so you might consider that he scored 35 goals in Friendlies. He scored 5 in the 1962 WC Qualification, all against the mighty Luxembourg In the World Cup Finals, he scored 1 vs Argentina in 1962, 1 vs Mexico in 1966 and 2 vs Portugal in 1966 He scored 4 in the 1968 Euro Qualifiers - 2 vs Wales and 1 vs Northern Ireland and 1 vs Spain In the 1968 Euro Finals, he scored 1 vs the Soviet Union. So that would be for Charlton Friendlies - 35 Qualifiers - 9 European - 1 World Cup - 4 Edited 5 September, 2015 by angelman
The9 Posted 5 September, 2015 Posted 5 September, 2015 Out there but it might be a little wrong, as Friendly goals... 2 vs Portugal 1 vs Soviet Union 1 vs Italy 3 vs USA (which we won 8-1) 1 vs Sweden 3 vs Mexico (which we won 8-0) 1 vs Czech 1 vs East Germany 3 vs Switzerland (which we won 8-10 1 vs Portugal 1 vs USA (this time beating them 10-0) 1 vs Austria 1 vs Yugoslavia 1 vs Sweden 1 vs Colombia 22, but then if you include the Home Championship (excluding those in 1966/67 and 67/68 that counted as Euro Qualifiers) as these were friendlies.....there were 5 goals vs Scotland, 5 vs Northern Ireland and 3 vs Wales....so you might consider that he scored 35 goals in Friendlies. He scored 5 in the 1962 WC Qualification, all against the mighty Luxembourg In the World Cup Finals, he scored 1 vs Argentina in 1962, 1 vs Mexico in 1966 and 2 vs Portugal in 1966 He scored 4 in the 1968 Euro Qualifiers - 2 vs Wales and 1 vs Northern Ireland and 1 vs Spain In the 1968 Euro Finals, he scored 1 vs the Soviet Union. So that would be for Charlton Friendlies - 35 Qualifiers - 9 European - 1 World Cup - 4 Different eras - there were a lot fewer competitive matches in those days - the World Cup qualifiers barely even got established and were still small groups until the 60s (plus England didn't need to qualify for '66 or '70), and the Euros were only the SF and Final until well after Charlton retired with barely any qualifiers - plus the bad teams (though there were fewer of them) were far worse, so Charlton was always going to have scored a load in matches against rubbish sides. A comparison between Rooney and Lineker would be slightly more valid, but even then the World Cup and Euros had fewer teams so fewer opportunities to score and there were fewer minnows (but the ones there were were still comparatively much worse). Worth noting that both Lineker and Charlton played in World Cup semi-finals as well.
angelman Posted 5 September, 2015 Posted 5 September, 2015 (edited) Although Charlton has played more minutes, both he and Rooney have 106 appearances in 12 years. But it is, as you say, different eras and as such, is impossible to compare. So actually who scored against who, is somewhat moot. The point really was, more that Rooney is often gets put down for all the friendlies etc, but it isn't quite so. Having said that, some of the qualifiers are no different in practice than friendlies. Edited 5 September, 2015 by angelman
The9 Posted 5 September, 2015 Posted 5 September, 2015 Although Charlton has played more minutes, both he and Rooney have 106 appearances in 12 years. But it is, as you say, different eras and as such, is impossible to compare. So actually who scored against who, is somewhat moot. The point really was, more that Rooney is often gets put down for all the friendlies etc, but it isn't quite so. Having said that, some of the qualifiers are no different in practice than friendlies. Charlton getting the chance to play at least 2 matches a year against Wales and Northern Ireland can't have hurt him much either.
angelman Posted 6 September, 2015 Posted 6 September, 2015 http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/603225/Nathaniel-Clyne-Stockwell-Liverpool-England-stardom-Euro-2016-Premier-League Guess it's nice that we get a mention in passing.
andoru Posted 6 September, 2015 Posted 6 September, 2015 http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/603225/Nathaniel-Clyne-Stockwell-Liverpool-England-stardom-Euro-2016-Premier-League Guess it's nice that we get a mention in passing. "… earn himself a big money summer move to Liverpool and integrate himself into England’s European Championship plans" I wonder if the writer deliberately drew the connection between those two events. "After progressing through the Palace ranks a move to Southampton followed where he quickly attracted the attention of the big clubs and Three Lions boss Roy Hodgson." I'm glad our small club was able to help showcase his talents. "I always set my mind on playing at the top. As a footballer you want to be playing at the highest level and when you start at the bottom and work your way up to the top it's always good. It's the way I have done it." Fair enough, he has done that, but I'm not sure Liverpool is quite "at the top".
Trader Posted 6 September, 2015 Posted 6 September, 2015 "… earn himself a big money summer move to Liverpool and integrate himself into England’s European Championship plans Or should that be 'ingratiate'?
paulwantsapint Posted 6 September, 2015 Posted 6 September, 2015 "… earn himself a big money summer move to Liverpool and integrate himself into England’s European Championship plans" I wonder if the writer deliberately drew the connection between those two events. "After progressing through the Palace ranks a move to Southampton followed where he quickly attracted the attention of the big clubs and Three Lions boss Roy Hodgson." I'm glad our small club was able to help showcase his talents. "I always set my mind on playing at the top. As a footballer you want to be playing at the highest level and when you start at the bottom and work your way up to the top it's always good. It's the way I have done it." Fair enough, he has done that, but I'm not sure Liverpool is quite "at the top". So clyne is going to use Liverpool as a stepping stone to a proper massive club who can win champions league & domestic leagues Man Utd Man city Chelsea Barcelona Real Madrid Bayern Munich Psg Ac Milan Juventus
sadoldgit Posted 6 September, 2015 Posted 6 September, 2015 Different eras - there were a lot fewer competitive matches in those days - the World Cup qualifiers barely even got established and were still small groups until the 60s (plus England didn't need to qualify for '66 or '70), and the Euros were only the SF and Final until well after Charlton retired with barely any qualifiers - plus the bad teams (though there were fewer of them) were far worse, so Charlton was always going to have scored a load in matches against rubbish sides. A comparison between Rooney and Lineker would be slightly more valid, but even then the World Cup and Euros had fewer teams so fewer opportunities to score and there were fewer minnows (but the ones there were were still comparatively much worse). Worth noting that both Lineker and Charlton played in World Cup semi-finals as well. Charlton also played in an era where and decent player had lumps kicked out of them. Pele was kicked out of the WC in 1962. With Rooney's temperament I doubt if he would of stayed on the pitch for long in many of the matches.
sadoldgit Posted 6 September, 2015 Posted 6 September, 2015 (edited) Nice to see Clyne is now worthy of an England place. Wonder what has happened to change Hodgson's mind since June? He did get capped for England while playing for us and his form/attitude took a nose dive last season. I really don't think playing for Southampton held any player back. Morgan is now playing for a "big club" but he still started on the bench the other day yet we are often told here that he is World Class. Edited 6 September, 2015 by sadoldgit
Batman Posted 6 September, 2015 Posted 6 September, 2015 He did get capped for England while playing for us and his form/attitude took a nose dive last season. I really don't think playing for Southampton held any player back. Morgan is now playing for a "big club" but he still started on the bench the other day yet we are often told here that he is World Class. good luck to him getting in ahead of pogba
sadoldgit Posted 6 September, 2015 Posted 6 September, 2015 good luck to him getting in ahead of pogba If he was good enough (World Class) don't you think they would find a place for him? (not that I am saying he isn't quality)
Batman Posted 6 September, 2015 Posted 6 September, 2015 If he was good enough (World Class) don't you think they would find a place for him? (not that I am saying he isn't quality) Depends how they play. They don't seem to go down the Gerrard/lampard route. Which is probably why they have been miles better than England in the last 20 years or so
mrfahaji Posted 6 September, 2015 Posted 6 September, 2015 He did get capped for England while playing for us and his form/attitude took a nose dive last season. I really don't think playing for Southampton held any player back. Morgan is now playing for a "big club" but he still started on the bench the other day yet we are often told here that he is World Class. It just takes longer to get the recognition playing for a smaller club. When a player plays well for a season, everyone (well, most) outside that club think "he's done well but probably just going through a purple patch", whereas if you start for a big club the assumption is you're obviously good enough to start internationally. I remember when Louis Saha was tearing it up for Fulham but never got picked for France. United signed him and before he'd even played a game up there he was called up. There is still a sense of satisfaction seeing all our ex-players playing for England though, a bit like seeing a band hit the big time that you saw play in your local pub. "I remember watching the Ox play before he sold out"
david in sweden Posted 6 September, 2015 Posted 6 September, 2015 I read somewhere that about 90% of his goal tally are from friendlies, compared to Charltons being 90% from qualifiers or tournaments. the stats I read said the opposite. Charlton actually scored more in friendlies, and Rooney has scored more in competitions than in friendlies... .......though to be fair, Charlton didn't play the likes of Andorra and San Marino so often.......
rpb Posted 6 September, 2015 Posted 6 September, 2015 the stats I read said the opposite. Charlton actually scored more in friendlies, and Rooney has scored more in competitions than in friendlies... .......though to be fair, Charlton didn't play the likes of Andorra and San Marino so often....... Friendlies back then were actually taken very seriously, they don't really equate with the modern version and the multiple substitutions. It should also be noted that Charlton played midfield for most of his games for England (left wing in his early days). He would also be in the reckoning for any All Time World XI whilst I'm not sure whether Rooney would be a serious contender for an All Time English Team.
Lord Duckhunter Posted 6 September, 2015 Posted 6 September, 2015 Greavsie scored 5 less goals than Rooney , yet played in 49 less games. He was different class, **** me in the modern game with defenders unable to kick lumps out of you, playing with a light ball in modern boots , on carpet like pitches , he'd be unstoppable.
shurlock Posted 6 September, 2015 Posted 6 September, 2015 good luck to him getting in ahead of pogba Or Cabaye
nta786 Posted 6 September, 2015 Posted 6 September, 2015 So clyne is going to use Liverpool as a stepping stone to a proper massive club who can win champions league & domestic leagues Man Utd Man city Chelsea Barcelona Real Madrid Bayern Munich Psg Ac Milan Juventus It is going to be impossible for Clyne to move anywhere else... He signed a 5 year contract hahaha. If he had used his brain- I genuinely believe he could be at Chelsea or Man City in the next year... Zabaleta and Ivanovic need replacing soon- hence why he should have signed a one/two year contract this summer. He's now stuck with Europa League football for the next 5 years... Before eventually falling in decline and going somewhere like Stoke...
St Jim Posted 6 September, 2015 Posted 6 September, 2015 Luke Shaw has completely regressed since leaving. I'm glad I'm not the only one thi think that. Interestingly the BBC gave him 7/10. F-knows how. I'd have given him 4 at max. Didn't look theratening going forward, and gave the ball away more times than the number of people the Skates have mugged off, and this was against the might of San Marino.
Sour Mash Posted 6 September, 2015 Posted 6 September, 2015 Greavsie scored 5 less goals than Rooney , yet played in 49 less games. He was different class, **** me in the modern game with defenders unable to kick lumps out of you, playing with a light ball in modern boots , on carpet like pitches , he'd be unstoppable. Agreed, Jimmy Greaves goal scoring record is ridiculously good all round.
Convict Colony Posted 6 September, 2015 Posted 6 September, 2015 I mean for all the talk of records for Rooney, Robbie Keane is miles ahead while playing for a smaller nation against the same sorts of opposition in the same era. Excellent point
Sour Mash Posted 6 September, 2015 Posted 6 September, 2015 I mean for all the talk of records for Rooney, Robbie Keane is miles ahead while playing for a smaller nation against the same sorts of opposition in the same era. Keane's record is also impressive, but has played a lot more games, for longer, than Rooney.
Dellman Posted 6 September, 2015 Posted 6 September, 2015 Sir Bobby performed at highest level inn the winning world cup team, what has Rooney done in world cups---there's the difference
Saint-Armstrong Posted 6 September, 2015 Posted 6 September, 2015 Holland losing to Turkey after seven minutes...
markr27 Posted 6 September, 2015 Posted 6 September, 2015 Vam Dijk on the bench for Holland, who are a goal down in Turkey - thanks to dreadful defending or a dreadful offside call (only seen it the once)
nta786 Posted 6 September, 2015 Posted 6 September, 2015 Turkey now winning 2-0. looking difficult they'll be going euro 2016 now...
Saint-Armstrong Posted 6 September, 2015 Posted 6 September, 2015 Turkey 2-0 Holland - Arda Turan 27'
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