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Edmonton Saint

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I read somewhere that about 90% of his goal tally are from friendlies, compared to Charltons being 90% from qualifiers or tournaments.

 

And the most (5) against San Marino. Charlton would never haver played against teams like San Marino because they didn't exist as an international teams in his day.

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And the most (5) against San Marino. Charlton would never haver played against teams like San Marino because they didn't exist as an international teams in his day.

 

Looking at some facts....

 

Friendlies - Rooney 14 goals, Charlton 32

Qualifiers - Rooney 28 goals, Charlton 12

European - Rooney 6 goals, Charlton 1

World Cup - Rooney 1 goal, Charlton 4

Edited by angelman
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I tried to work out how many of England's starting 11 had come through an academy at one of the 'top 6', ( Man U, Man C, Chelski, Arsenal, Liverpool, or Spuds ), ie being at one of those clubs on their 16th birthday - I think the answer is none. Extending the analysis to the full match squad, I reckon there are 5, ( Kane and Mason at Spurs, Liverpool signed Sterling from QPR aged 15, Heaton was at Man Utd for a while, and Gibbs was about 15 when he joined Arsenal after Wimbledon disbanded ).

Glad to know that by comparison Saints developed 3 of them.

Edited by badgerx16
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Where are those from?

 

Out there but it might be a little wrong, as

 

Friendly goals...

 

2 vs Portugal

1 vs Soviet Union

1 vs Italy

3 vs USA (which we won 8-1)

1 vs Sweden

3 vs Mexico (which we won 8-0)

1 vs Czech

1 vs East Germany

3 vs Switzerland (which we won 8-10

1 vs Portugal

1 vs USA (this time beating them 10-0)

1 vs Austria

1 vs Yugoslavia

1 vs Sweden

1 vs Colombia

 

22, but then if you include the Home Championship (excluding those in 1966/67 and 67/68 that counted as Euro Qualifiers) as these were friendlies.....there were 5 goals vs Scotland, 5 vs Northern Ireland and 3 vs Wales....so you might consider that he scored 35 goals in Friendlies.

 

He scored 5 in the 1962 WC Qualification, all against the mighty Luxembourg

 

In the World Cup Finals, he scored 1 vs Argentina in 1962, 1 vs Mexico in 1966 and 2 vs Portugal in 1966

 

He scored 4 in the 1968 Euro Qualifiers - 2 vs Wales and 1 vs Northern Ireland and 1 vs Spain

 

In the 1968 Euro Finals, he scored 1 vs the Soviet Union.

 

So that would be for Charlton

 

Friendlies - 35

Qualifiers - 9

European - 1

World Cup - 4

Edited by angelman
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Out there but it might be a little wrong, as

 

Friendly goals...

 

2 vs Portugal

1 vs Soviet Union

1 vs Italy

3 vs USA (which we won 8-1)

1 vs Sweden

3 vs Mexico (which we won 8-0)

1 vs Czech

1 vs East Germany

3 vs Switzerland (which we won 8-10

1 vs Portugal

1 vs USA (this time beating them 10-0)

1 vs Austria

1 vs Yugoslavia

1 vs Sweden

1 vs Colombia

 

22, but then if you include the Home Championship (excluding those in 1966/67 and 67/68 that counted as Euro Qualifiers) as these were friendlies.....there were 5 goals vs Scotland, 5 vs Northern Ireland and 3 vs Wales....so you might consider that he scored 35 goals in Friendlies.

 

He scored 5 in the 1962 WC Qualification, all against the mighty Luxembourg

 

In the World Cup Finals, he scored 1 vs Argentina in 1962, 1 vs Mexico in 1966 and 2 vs Portugal in 1966

 

He scored 4 in the 1968 Euro Qualifiers - 2 vs Wales and 1 vs Northern Ireland and 1 vs Spain

 

In the 1968 Euro Finals, he scored 1 vs the Soviet Union.

 

So that would be for Charlton

 

Friendlies - 35

Qualifiers - 9

European - 1

World Cup - 4

 

Different eras - there were a lot fewer competitive matches in those days - the World Cup qualifiers barely even got established and were still small groups until the 60s (plus England didn't need to qualify for '66 or '70), and the Euros were only the SF and Final until well after Charlton retired with barely any qualifiers - plus the bad teams (though there were fewer of them) were far worse, so Charlton was always going to have scored a load in matches against rubbish sides.

 

A comparison between Rooney and Lineker would be slightly more valid, but even then the World Cup and Euros had fewer teams so fewer opportunities to score and there were fewer minnows (but the ones there were were still comparatively much worse).

 

Worth noting that both Lineker and Charlton played in World Cup semi-finals as well.

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Although Charlton has played more minutes, both he and Rooney have 106 appearances in 12 years. But it is, as you say, different eras and as such, is impossible to compare. So actually who scored against who, is somewhat moot. The point really was, more that Rooney is often gets put down for all the friendlies etc, but it isn't quite so. Having said that, some of the qualifiers are no different in practice than friendlies.

Edited by angelman
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Although Charlton has played more minutes, both he and Rooney have 106 appearances in 12 years. But it is, as you say, different eras and as such, is impossible to compare. So actually who scored against who, is somewhat moot. The point really was, more that Rooney is often gets put down for all the friendlies etc, but it isn't quite so. Having said that, some of the qualifiers are no different in practice than friendlies.

 

Charlton getting the chance to play at least 2 matches a year against Wales and Northern Ireland can't have hurt him much either.

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"… earn himself a big money summer move to Liverpool and integrate himself into England’s European Championship plans"

 

I wonder if the writer deliberately drew the connection between those two events.

 

"After progressing through the Palace ranks a move to Southampton followed where he quickly attracted the attention of the big clubs and Three Lions boss Roy Hodgson."

 

I'm glad our small club was able to help showcase his talents.

 

"I always set my mind on playing at the top. As a footballer you want to be playing at the highest level and when you start at the bottom and work your way up to the top it's always good. It's the way I have done it."

 

Fair enough, he has done that, but I'm not sure Liverpool is quite "at the top".

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"… earn himself a big money summer move to Liverpool and integrate himself into England’s European Championship plans"

 

I wonder if the writer deliberately drew the connection between those two events.

 

"After progressing through the Palace ranks a move to Southampton followed where he quickly attracted the attention of the big clubs and Three Lions boss Roy Hodgson."

 

I'm glad our small club was able to help showcase his talents.

 

"I always set my mind on playing at the top. As a footballer you want to be playing at the highest level and when you start at the bottom and work your way up to the top it's always good. It's the way I have done it."

 

Fair enough, he has done that, but I'm not sure Liverpool is quite "at the top".

 

So clyne is going to use Liverpool as a stepping stone to a proper massive club who can win champions league & domestic leagues

Man Utd

Man city

Chelsea

Barcelona

Real Madrid

Bayern Munich

Psg

Ac Milan

Juventus

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Different eras - there were a lot fewer competitive matches in those days - the World Cup qualifiers barely even got established and were still small groups until the 60s (plus England didn't need to qualify for '66 or '70), and the Euros were only the SF and Final until well after Charlton retired with barely any qualifiers - plus the bad teams (though there were fewer of them) were far worse, so Charlton was always going to have scored a load in matches against rubbish sides.

 

A comparison between Rooney and Lineker would be slightly more valid, but even then the World Cup and Euros had fewer teams so fewer opportunities to score and there were fewer minnows (but the ones there were were still comparatively much worse).

 

Worth noting that both Lineker and Charlton played in World Cup semi-finals as well.

 

Charlton also played in an era where and decent player had lumps kicked out of them. Pele was kicked out of the WC in 1962. With Rooney's temperament I doubt if he would of stayed on the pitch for long in many of the matches.

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Nice to see Clyne is now worthy of an England place. Wonder what has happened to change Hodgson's mind since June?

 

He did get capped for England while playing for us and his form/attitude took a nose dive last season. I really don't think playing for Southampton held any player back. Morgan is now playing for a "big club" but he still started on the bench the other day yet we are often told here that he is World Class.

Edited by sadoldgit
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He did get capped for England while playing for us and his form/attitude took a nose dive last season. I really don't think playing for Southampton held any player back. Morgan is now playing for a "big club" but he still started on the bench the other day yet we are often told here that he is World Class.

 

good luck to him getting in ahead of pogba

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If he was good enough (World Class) don't you think they would find a place for him? (not that I am saying he isn't quality)

 

Depends how they play. They don't seem to go down the Gerrard/lampard route. Which is probably why they have been miles better than England in the last 20 years or so

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He did get capped for England while playing for us and his form/attitude took a nose dive last season. I really don't think playing for Southampton held any player back. Morgan is now playing for a "big club" but he still started on the bench the other day yet we are often told here that he is World Class.

 

It just takes longer to get the recognition playing for a smaller club. When a player plays well for a season, everyone (well, most) outside that club think "he's done well but probably just going through a purple patch", whereas if you start for a big club the assumption is you're obviously good enough to start internationally. I remember when Louis Saha was tearing it up for Fulham but never got picked for France. United signed him and before he'd even played a game up there he was called up.

 

There is still a sense of satisfaction seeing all our ex-players playing for England though, a bit like seeing a band hit the big time that you saw play in your local pub. "I remember watching the Ox play before he sold out" ;)

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I read somewhere that about 90% of his goal tally are from friendlies, compared to Charltons being 90% from qualifiers or tournaments.

 

the stats I read said the opposite. Charlton actually scored more in friendlies, and Rooney has scored more in competitions than in friendlies...

.......though to be fair, Charlton didn't play the likes of Andorra and San Marino so often.......

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the stats I read said the opposite. Charlton actually scored more in friendlies, and Rooney has scored more in competitions than in friendlies...

.......though to be fair, Charlton didn't play the likes of Andorra and San Marino so often.......

 

Friendlies back then were actually taken very seriously, they don't really equate with the modern version and the multiple substitutions. It should also be noted that Charlton played midfield for most of his games for England (left wing in his early days). He would also be in the reckoning for any All Time World XI whilst I'm not sure whether Rooney would be a serious contender for an All Time English Team.

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So clyne is going to use Liverpool as a stepping stone to a proper massive club who can win champions league & domestic leagues

Man Utd

Man city

Chelsea

Barcelona

Real Madrid

Bayern Munich

Psg

Ac Milan

Juventus

 

It is going to be impossible for Clyne to move anywhere else... He signed a 5 year contract hahaha.

 

If he had used his brain- I genuinely believe he could be at Chelsea or Man City in the next year...

Zabaleta and Ivanovic need replacing soon- hence why he should have signed a one/two year contract this summer.

 

He's now stuck with Europa League football for the next 5 years... Before eventually falling in decline and going somewhere like Stoke...

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Luke Shaw has completely regressed since leaving.

 

I'm glad I'm not the only one thi think that. Interestingly the BBC gave him 7/10. F-knows how. I'd have given him 4 at max. Didn't look theratening going forward, and gave the ball away more times than the number of people the Skates have mugged off, and this was against the might of San Marino.

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Greavsie scored 5 less goals than Rooney , yet played in 49 less games. He was different class, **** me in the modern game with defenders unable to kick lumps out of you, playing with a light ball in modern boots , on carpet like pitches , he'd be unstoppable.

 

Agreed, Jimmy Greaves goal scoring record is ridiculously good all round.

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