Is it right for the media to use images of refugee tragedy?

[Goatboy]

Your response once again proves you are disconnected from reality but if you are happy with your delusion then who am I to criticise? Live in your mental fairy world if you like, we still aren't going to vote to leave.

 

You make no valid reasons, just because you want something to be true doesn't mean it's going to happen. I want saints to win the champions league but unlike the likes of mlg I'm not going to invent fictional future scenarios where this could happen, I simply look at the situation and the history and accept that no matter what I want it isn't going to happen. I suspect that people would rather be in Europe on a trading basis but that offer isn't on the table and the majority won't be going for the incredibly radical step of complete removal from the EU and what that entails. with the possible hope that they could join a trading union at some point in the future. Again, if you believe they will then that's fine but I presume you will be coming back on here to apologise once we vote not to leave?

 

Of course voting even if you know you won't win is important. Look at Scotland, they have gained much from the independence referendum despite losing. Personally I hope the vote is close enough that politicians won't get complacent or consider it a ringing endorsement of the EU. Keep clinging to your delusion if you wish but it will just make you look a little foolish won't it.

Why would he apologise to someone who isn't even stating his opinion and has no emotional connection to what he posts?

[hypochondriac]

Why would he apologise to someone who isn't even stating his opinion and has no emotional connection to what he posts?

 

I get the impression that wes is one of those posters who genuinely does get annoyed by words on a screen. Wouldn't surprise me.

 

On a side note, I notice a lot of the forum members who I believe have joined pap on his forum have suddenly started replying to an awful lot of my posts. Am I right to assume that you are talking about me on a different forum and then all coming on here? That's incredibly sad if so.

Edited 23 September, 2015 by hypochondriac

[Wes Tender]

Stop wriggling. You patently bracket together anybody who wants to leave the EU as deluded buffoons or simpletons, because you claim that there is zero chance for the campaign to leave succeeding, so why would they even bother voting if the result is such a foregone clonclusion? Oh yes, if a significant percentage voted and the result was a close run thing, then we might gain some concessions from the EU, such as the Scottish Nationalists did in their independence referendum.

 

People who want a renegotiation aren't suddenly going to vote to leave no matter how much you wish it were true.

 

Really? So what are they going to do? Vote to stay in, or abstain? That'll show them!

 

And for your information, my Eurosceptic stance predates UKIP and indeed the Referendum Party by some considerable time and goes back to the Maastricht Treaty. I am a Conservative, not UKIP and only voted UKIP during the last European Elections, along with sufficient numbers of others who made them the biggest British grouping in the European Parliament. I can understand though how some will attempt to band everybody who disagrees with them into their own cosy little pigeon-holes, as they lack the imagination to accept that on some issues there can be support from across the entire political spectrum.

[Goatboy]

I get the impression that wes is one of those posters who genuinely does get annoyed by words on a screen. Wouldn't surprise me.

 

On a side note, I notice a lot of the forum members who I believe have joined pap on his forum have suddenly started replying to an awful lot of my posts. Am I right to assume that you are talking about me on a different forum and then all coming on here? That's incredibly sad if so.

 

But we all miss you Hypes. You're such a great poster. And what forum are you on about?

[hypochondriac]

Stop wriggling. You patently bracket together anybody who wants to leave the EU as deluded buffoons or simpletons, because you claim that there is zero chance for the campaign to leave succeeding, so why would they even bother voting if the result is such a foregone clonclusion? Oh yes, if a significant percentage voted and the result was a close run thing, then we might gain some concessions from the EU, such as the Scottish Nationalists did in their independence referendum.

 

Really? So what are they going to do? Vote to stay in, or abstain? That'll show them!

 

And for your information, my Eurosceptic stance predates UKIP and indeed the Referendum Party by some considerable time and goes back to the Maastricht Treaty. I am a Conservative, not UKIP and only voted UKIP during the last European Elections, along with sufficient numbers of others who made them the biggest British grouping in the European Parliament. I can understand though how some will attempt to band everybody who disagrees with them into their own cosy little pigeon-holes, as they lack the imagination to accept that on some issues there can be support from across the entire political spectrum.

 

Here we go again. Mr fantasist inventing things desperately. It's a novel way too win an argument- if you can't find something then just pretend they said something else! But OK if it makes you feel better I admit it I said EVERYONE who wants to leave the EU are buffoons (this despite saying I considered YOU a buffoon for not understanding the political climate, woefully failing to comprehend how the media works and for jumping up and down because I dared to suggest that we won't be voting to leave.)

 

The reality is that I believe there are some good arguments in favour of leaving. What you failed to see whilst you worked yourself into a UKIP lather is that I have respect for quite a few people who want to leave. I know a few people who would like to leave but who also know that there is no chance that a majority of the British public will vote the way they would like them to. They will still be voting because their hope is that the vote is close enough to force some concessions and a renegotiation. So all the people who want a renegotiation are going to bite the hand that feeds them and take the massive step of withdrawal in the face of a concerted media campaign and a huge budget telling them how dire it will be if they do? Of course they will!

 

I really think you should reconsider your Tory stance. Everything you ever post on here makes it appear that you would be more at home slagging off migrants with Uncle Farage. You know you want to join.

[Wes Tender]

Here we go again. Mr fantasist inventing things desperately. It's a novel way too win an argument- if you can't find something then just pretend they said something else! But OK if it makes you feel better I admit it I said EVERYONE who wants to leave the EU are buffoons (this despite saying I considered YOU a buffoon for not understanding the political climate, woefully failing to comprehend how the media works and for jumping up and down because I dared to suggest that we won't be voting to leave.)

 

The reality is that I believe there are some good arguments in favour of leaving. What you failed to see whilst you worked yourself into a UKIP lather is that I have respect for quite a few people who want to leave. I know a few people who would like to leave but who also know that there is no chance that a majority of the British public will vote the way they would like them to. They will still be voting because their hope is that the vote is close enough to force some concessions and a renegotiation. So all the people who want a renegotiation are going to bite the hand that feeds them and take the massive step of withdrawal in the face of a concerted media campaign and a huge budget telling them how dire it will be if they do? Of course they will!

 

I really think you should reconsider your Tory stance. Everything you ever post on here makes it appear that you would be more at home slagging off migrants with Uncle Farage. You know you want to join.

 

There you go again, pigeon-holing people to make it easier for you to respond to their views if you can have them belonging to a narrower band of beliefs and opinions than your limited imagination allows.

 

I suspect that I have been on this earth long enough to understand the political climate (having voted in my first General Election in 1970 when the voting age was 21) and to know how the media works, thank you. I am savvy enough to realise that for all the propaganda there will be to stay in from some sections of the media, there is also counter-propaganda over major issues that will effect the result, like the nightly coverage of the thousands of migrants entering Europe or disrupting the Eurotunnel service trying to get into the UK. No doubt there will other coverage of events that will aid the Euro-sceptic position, like the possibility that the Greeks might exit the EU for example.

 

Regarding what you describe as my jumping up and down over whether we will vote to leave or not, I merely refute your position that the result is a foregone conclusion with absolutely no chance of an upset.If that is how you would like to categorise my response, fill your boots. It doesn't bother me, but it makes you look a little hysterical.

 

I really do not understand your reasoning regarding the people who want to stay in but only on a trade basis. Which is this hand that feeds them? There is only ever likely to be the alternative of staying in or leaving, no position that they would prefer of staying in with a renegotiation back to solely a trade basis. So it is obviously the case that given only the two alternatives, they would vote to leave, and if they narrowly failed, they would have a strong negotioning position in renegotiating our terms of membership. If the vote succeeded, then we would be out and free to negotiate our trading terms on the basis that Europe does more trade with us than we do with them. You are living in cloud cuckoo land if you believe that anybody who wished to gain concessions from the EU would strengthen their position by voting to stay in.

 

I'm quite comfortable where I am in my political stance, thank you, and certainly wouldn't take any advice from you on what I should believe. As I said already, my Euro-scpetic stance goes back a long way before Farage, to the days of the CAP, Common Market subsidies to French Apple growers which decimated our orchards, produced wine lakes, butter mountains so vast that we sold the surplus to the Soviet Union at prices lower than we could buy it here, our fishing industry was decimated. You're probably too young to remember all that, so your your views are naturally a bit narrower from lack of personal experience.

Edited 23 September, 2015 by Wes Tender

[hypochondriac]

Bored now. When you start bringing age into it then you know you've lost. Lets revisit this thread after the result. Ta ta.

[Wes Tender]

Bored now. When you start bringing age into it then you know you've lost. Lets revisit this thread after the result. Ta ta.

 

Bye sonny

[Wes Tender]

I get the impression that wes is one of those posters who genuinely does get annoyed by words on a screen. Wouldn't surprise me.

 

post 929 by Hypo on the "Drinks" thread

Weird that you think some words on a screen make someone angry. If you do believe that then seek help.

 

Please take your own advice, Hypo and seek help.

[Batman]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3249667/Germany-state-SIEGE-Merkel-cheered-opened-floodgates-migrants-gangs-men-roaming-streets-young-German-women-told-cover-mood-s-changing.html

[Orange]

Here we go again. Mr fantasist inventing things desperately. It's a novel way too win an argument- if you can't find something then just pretend they said something else! But OK if it makes you feel better I admit it I said EVERYONE who wants to leave the EU are buffoons (this despite saying I considered YOU a buffoon for not understanding the political climate, woefully failing to comprehend how the media works and for jumping up and down because I dared to suggest that we won't be voting to leave.)

 

The reality is that I believe there are some good arguments in favour of leaving. What you failed to see whilst you worked yourself into a UKIP lather is that I have respect for quite a few people who want to leave. I know a few people who would like to leave but who also know that there is no chance that a majority of the British public will vote the way they would like them to. They will still be voting because their hope is that the vote is close enough to force some concessions and a renegotiation. So all the people who want a renegotiation are going to bite the hand that feeds them and take the massive step of withdrawal in the face of a concerted media campaign and a huge budget telling them how dire it will be if they do? Of course they will!

 

I really think you should reconsider your Tory stance. Everything you ever post on here makes it appear that you would be more at home slagging off migrants with Uncle Farage. You know you want to join.

 

But that's not what you're saying is it? You're saying the result is already a cert and that anyone who thinks there's a fight to be had is mentally delusional.

 

You said that you think most people want to be in the EU on a trading basis- well if that's the case which i think it is, the OUT campaign has every chance to persuade people that we are more likely to have that relationship if we are to become independent and organise free trade arrangements with Europe , then if we're to stay in a political union which is clearly intent on closer integration.

 

Of course it's more likely that with the inevitable scaremongering from big banks, the media, politicians etc (the same ones which said we'd be f*cked if we didn't join the Euro), we vote to stay in. But i see through my friends and family, people are seriously starting to sway towards believing we should leave, and whilst many people i think are sitting on the fence at the moment, depending on how events pan out in the next few months/how effective the out campaign is and which figures join it, there is a CHANCE we vote to leave. Wanting to reduce immigration, have more accountable/democratic government etc appeals to most Brits- but the OUT campaign has got to set out clearly how things would work once we left - in order to counteract the scaremongering and make people feel comfortable enough to make the decision.

[Wes Tender]

But that's not what you're saying is it? You're saying the result is already a cert and that anyone who thinks there's a fight to be had is mentally delusional.

 

You said that you think most people want to be in the EU on a trading basis- well if that's the case which i think it is, the OUT campaign has every chance to persuade people that we are more likely to have that relationship if we are to become independent and organise free trade arrangements with Europe , then if we're to stay in a political union which is clearly intent on closer integration.

 

Of course it's more likely that with the inevitable scaremongering from big banks, the media, politicians etc (the same ones which said we'd be f*cked if we didn't join the Euro), we vote to stay in. But i see through my friends and family, people are seriously starting to sway towards believing we should leave, and whilst many people i think are sitting on the fence at the moment, depending on how events pan out in the next few months/how effective the out campaign is and which figures join it, there is a CHANCE we vote to leave. Wanting to reduce immigration, have more accountable/democratic government etc appeals to most Brits- but the OUT campaign has got to set out clearly how things would work once we left - in order to counteract the scaremongering and make people feel comfortable enough to make the decision.

 

Hypo cannot see that the best way to achieve a retraction from our relationship with the EU to solely a trading arrangement is to vote to leave.

 

So all the people who want a renegotiation are going to bite the hand that feeds them and take the massive step of withdrawal in the face of a concerted media campaign and a huge budget telling them how dire it will be if they do? Of course they will!

 

In Hypoworld, the best way to negotiate is from a position of weakness. I don't believe for a moment that very many will think in terms of us leaving as "biting off the hand that feeds them", especially not the man in the street, who will be told the annual cost of membership for him and his family. I suppose though that the counter position that will be pushed by the "leave" lobby is that we will be "breaking free of the shackles that bind us."

 

Also in Hypoworld, anybody who wants to leave the EU must be a UKIP supporter, regardless of whether their support for that position predates the UKIP party. But mentioning that one's opinions have some basis of experience of the origins of the European Union, the Common Market, means that one has lost the argument apparently, as that is one of the Hypo rules of debate.

[Goatboy]

Hypo cannot see that the best way to achieve a retraction from our relationship with the EU to solely a trading arrangement is to vote to leave.

 

 

 

In Hypoworld, the best way to negotiate is from a position of weakness. I don't believe for a moment that very many will think in terms of us leaving as "biting off the hand that feeds them", especially not the man in the street, who will be told the annual cost of membership for him and his family. I suppose though that the counter position that will be pushed by the "leave" lobby is that we will be "breaking free of the shackles that bind us."

 

Also in Hypoworld, anybody who wants to leave the EU must be a UKIP supporter, regardless of whether their support for that position predates the UKIP party. But mentioning that one's opinions have some basis of experience of the origins of the European Union, the Common Market, means that one has lost the argument apparently, as that is one of the Hypo rules of debate.

 

Don't worry, he'll have a different opinion when he reads his next book.

[Batman]

Good old Putin. In on the act now