Saint Billy Posted 25 August, 2015 Share Posted 25 August, 2015 Any idea's? Also, is it possible to compete in this league with players that are not sought after? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 25 August, 2015 Share Posted 25 August, 2015 Well, we have to look at other teams and how they keep their players. West Ham, Everton - pay big. Stoke might be a better team to compare ourselves to, or Crystal Palace/Swansea. Aston Villa seem to have sold their best 2 players, a bit like us. Spurs is an interesting club in how they manage. They hardly ever offer CL but seemingly people want to go there because it is a big club. Presume they mean they pay well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 25 August, 2015 Share Posted 25 August, 2015 (edited) Any idea's? A Chelsea/Man City/PSG style takeover. Although very rich, Liebherr isn't running the club in that way. But we have still risen from 68th to 7th in English football between 2009 and 2015. So the Liebherr's can hardly be knocked for what they've done. Also, is it possible to compete in this league with players that are not sought after? If Saints didn't have players the top clubs wanted then that is the time to worry, as it would indicate the quality of our squad has declined from the level of the last two seasons. Edited 25 August, 2015 by Matthew Le God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 25 August, 2015 Share Posted 25 August, 2015 Well, we have to look at other teams and how they keep their players. West Ham, Everton - pay big. Spurs is an interesting club in how they manage. They hardly ever offer CL but seemingly people want to go there because it is a big club. Presume they mean they pay well. When the elite clubs come calling with significant interest Everton and Spurs sell. What players have West Ham had in recent years that would interest Champions League clubs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 25 August, 2015 Share Posted 25 August, 2015 What players have West Ham had in recent years that would interest Champions League clubs? Urrr. Ummmm. I'll have to get back to you on that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 25 August, 2015 Share Posted 25 August, 2015 Buy them from a Top 4 PL club (we'll see if it works for Bertrand and Romeu). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cambsaint Posted 25 August, 2015 Share Posted 25 August, 2015 Money may stop them going to clubs like Liverpool Spurs Everton and the like. It would of course have a knock on effect through entire squad, and we would have to be able to afford higher wages across squad. Elite clubs -don't bother just agree to sell at a time convenient to us so it doesn't wreck plans and get as much as loot as poss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 25 August, 2015 Share Posted 25 August, 2015 Unfortunately it is a double edged sword - the better we do the more likely our players will be poached by bigger clubs. Wages is clearly an issue too. I doubt if we pay more than £60k to our top players and that is nowhere near what quality players can earn elsewhere. Once upon a time a player might accept a smaller salary if he bought into the club's vision for success. I really don't think that happens now. It is a nice problem to have though. I am sure we all remember how dreadful it was when we were struggling in the Championship. I'd rather have the problem of trying to keep players beyond their contract than have a squad of players who no on else wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSAINT Posted 25 August, 2015 Share Posted 25 August, 2015 Any idea's? Literally throw money at EVERYTHING. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Fan CaM Posted 25 August, 2015 Share Posted 25 August, 2015 Buy them from a Top 4 PL club (we'll see if it works for Bertrand and Romeu). This would appear to be a good option actually or at least a Euro equivelant. I think there are some players who don't fit the mould of top 4 clubs, but can for whatever reason fit our mould nicely. That's the best way because there's little chance of them wanting to go back to sitting on a bench. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 25 August, 2015 Share Posted 25 August, 2015 This would appear to be a good option actually or at least a Euro equivelant. I think there are some players who don't fit the mould of top 4 clubs, but can for whatever reason fit our mould nicely. That's the best way because there's little chance of them wanting to go back to sitting on a bench. Agree, but doesn't work for the Euro equiv with Toby being a case in point (although granted, we didn't buy him). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rallyboy Posted 25 August, 2015 Share Posted 25 August, 2015 That could be a good plan for preventing players moving up, only buy players who have already failed at higher levels and are now so depressed they will play for realistic wages. Or kidnap their family members and produce ears/fingers occasionally to keep them on the bus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 25 August, 2015 Share Posted 25 August, 2015 Chains, Whips and Photographic evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint-Armstrong Posted 25 August, 2015 Share Posted 25 August, 2015 They have to want to stay, basically. Many don't - for reasons stated above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richardc Posted 25 August, 2015 Share Posted 25 August, 2015 Its nothing to do with money as we keep getting told by the judas's We just need to build a bigger stadium, steal the history from the skates, win the PL, offer CL football - simple Obviously this would involve sacking Ralph Krueger and reemploying Cortese Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lallana's Left Peg Posted 25 August, 2015 Share Posted 25 August, 2015 We have to increase revenue streams so we can pay more. This can be done in several ways. None are easy. Most are linked to success. It's hard to have success (i.e. Champions League qualification) without at first having a team good enough (and paid enough) to qualify. Hence, Saints will never be in the Champions League in the modern game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 25 August, 2015 Share Posted 25 August, 2015 Perhaps we should employ a hot physio like Chelsea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 25 August, 2015 Share Posted 25 August, 2015 Any ideas? Also, is it possible to compete in this league with players that are not sought after? You tell Schneiderlin he can't leave. Was that the punchline you were after? It is possible to compete with players that aren't sought after, but they're not the ones who leave when you do well. So basically, we can't compete with sides with massive income and probably shouldn't try to unless FFP changes so it doesn't just favour the top 4, and someone decides to spend a few billion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daft Kerplunk Posted 25 August, 2015 Share Posted 25 August, 2015 Pay lots, qualify for europe every season, win some trophies, and above all, invest billions making Southampton a far more attractive city. This Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 25 August, 2015 Share Posted 25 August, 2015 Increase the average age of signings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 25 August, 2015 Share Posted 25 August, 2015 Pay lots, qualify for europe every season, win some trophies, and above all, invest billions making Southampton a far more attractive city. I'm not sure why you think the last of those is the most important. I doubt players would put it above the other points you mention in a list of priorities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rooney Posted 25 August, 2015 Share Posted 25 August, 2015 Manchester City had a big fan base, but they were not much of it before the Sheiks came in and it did not seem long ago that "potato head" took them down. As somebody said previously, if you throw enough money at it and play all foreign players, you may get some success but not sure the majority would want it that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corky morris Posted 25 August, 2015 Share Posted 25 August, 2015 Pay them £120k per week! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatch Posted 25 August, 2015 Share Posted 25 August, 2015 get them to marry a local bird, who has them under the thumb and wont move away from her family Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 25 August, 2015 Share Posted 25 August, 2015 get them to marry a local bird, who has them under the thumb and wont move away from her family Like Theo you mean? Doesn't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 25 August, 2015 Share Posted 25 August, 2015 Quite right, there's no example of players preferring to live in London right? Ive supported saints 25 years, but if I were a premier league player, I'd rather be playing for a London club, or move abroad. Yes you can commute but who the hell wants to do that when they don't have to? you have all that money and a very average city to spend it in. It's a huge long term limiting factor and the main reason Spurs are bigger than us IMO Pedro chose Chelsea over Msn U because London is allegedly bettrr thsn Manchester. Apparently the only reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 25 August, 2015 Share Posted 25 August, 2015 Quite right, there's no example of players preferring to live in London right? Ive supported saints 25 years, but if I were a premier league player, I'd rather be playing for a London club, or move abroad. Yes you can commute but who the hell wants to do that when they don't have to? you have all that money and a very average city to spend it in. It's a huge long term limiting factor and the main reason Spurs are bigger than us IMO London is a pull but I don't think location is a big influence, look at the player City attract and no one wants to live up north. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hasper57saint Posted 25 August, 2015 Share Posted 25 August, 2015 FFP does no favours to the less well off. Sort that out and maybe there will be a different approach to transfers.We are all aware of the talent at Saints but we just can't compete with the obscene money paid to players at the 'rich' clubs and proves categorically that money motivates players and their Agents. eg Toby to Spuds. I'd love to see a little loyalty again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diabolus Ex Machina Posted 25 August, 2015 Share Posted 25 August, 2015 Basically you have to offer them something they can't get elsewhere. Boruc, Puncheon and Cork left because we couldn't offer them first team football whereas at their new clubs they are getting that. Shaw, Toby, Lovren, Lallana, Clyne and Morgan are all still starting most games but have a lot more money and in some cases Champs League football. For Chambers again it's money and Europe (probably living in London and the size of the club had an affect as well). For Lambert it was his childhood team. Truth is there really isn't anything specific to us that will keep players here. Our most recognizable trait is our academy but that doesn't help with new players brought in and for the players who come through it the only thing that might keep them around if head-hunted is loyalty which is few and far between in the game these days. It could be the only reason we have a squad as good as we do currently is because players know it is a good stop gap before going to a top team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 25 August, 2015 Share Posted 25 August, 2015 Move the training ground to London. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 25 August, 2015 Share Posted 25 August, 2015 Quite right, there's no example of players preferring to live in London right? Ive supported saints 25 years, but if I were a premier league player, I'd rather be playing for a London club, or move abroad. Yes you can commute but who the hell wants to do that when they don't have to? you have all that money and a very average city to spend it in. It's a huge long term limiting factor and the main reason Spurs are bigger than us IMO I didn't say it wasn't a factor, I just said I think it is unlikely to be the main factor. A player could live in London and commute to Staplewood if he really wanted, live halfway between the two or even live in Hampshire and visit London quite easily whenever they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd Posted 25 August, 2015 Share Posted 25 August, 2015 Stop trying to do things on the cheap. Pay the same money that our rivals seem prepared to pay and bring in quality players that will show our intent to progress. There's surely nothing worse than seeing your team mates leaving and being replaced by mediocrity. That's probably half the problem with Vic. He sees who's gone and looks and who's come in and thinks 'WTF'. How is this progression? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puddings and Monkeys Posted 25 August, 2015 Share Posted 25 August, 2015 FFP does no favours to the less well off. Sort that out and maybe there will be a different approach to transfers.We are all aware of the talent at Saints but we just can't compete with the obscene money paid to players at the 'rich' clubs and proves categorically that money motivates players and their Agents. eg Toby to Spuds. I'd love to see a little loyalty again. Spot on. Until FFP changes (which is unlikely) we can't really compete on a consistent basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 25 August, 2015 Share Posted 25 August, 2015 Pay them £120k per week! this seems to me to be the only way. I keep reading on here that we can't compete, because we can't pay £100k a week wages, but why not? We may not be able to pay the £250k a week like united, or £100k a week to all the players, but why not £120k a week to the likes of Morgan, Lallana, Clyne and Shaw? Perhaps if we hadn't wasted god knows how many millions on Osvaldo etc. the money might have been there to do exactly that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 25 August, 2015 Share Posted 25 August, 2015 If they are top 6 quality and one of them really wants the player then in the long run you can't keep them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mosin Posted 25 August, 2015 Share Posted 25 August, 2015 Quite right, there's no example of players preferring to live in London right? Ive supported saints 25 years, but if I were a premier league player, I'd rather be playing for a London club, or move abroad. Yes you can commute but who the hell wants to do that when they don't have to? you have all that money and a very average city to spend it in. It's a huge long term limiting factor and the main reason Spurs are bigger than us IMO Location is hardly a factor in any thing when a footballer decides where to move, its all down to money / who they know at the club and the chancs of winning things.................... you seriously telling me you would move to london from your current home just to live in london when you can just drive / take a train / fly to it? London is a **** hole to live in, Manchester is also a **** hole to live in, Pedro went Chelsea over united cause he is good mates with Cesc and knows Jose is a winner not to mention the fact United took for ever to sort the transfer out yet Chelsea managed it in a couple of days, also not a lot of top players seem to like LVG................ Only thing players care about is money, being Famous and trophy's, The only way Saints can compete with the top clubs is if a wage limit came into force and every club even relegation favs can pay players the same as United ( Unless Kat decides to put her hand in her pocket but that is 99.999999999999999999999 % unlikely as she is not as committed to the club like roman abramovich and mansour bin zayed Al nahyan are ) Just think of it this way, Luke Shaw choose to go United over the team he has supported all his life and loves cause United offered him more............ you got it... Money........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 25 August, 2015 Share Posted 25 August, 2015 Lock them in the cells at St Mary's after each game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Saint Posted 25 August, 2015 Share Posted 25 August, 2015 Spot on. Until FFP changes (which is unlikely) we can't really compete on a consistent basis. As was said years ago when the definitive edition penned on the back of a pack of 20 Benny Hegehogs in the snug of the Slug and Cabbage was inadvertently leaked. FFP instead of curbing the excesses it was meant to control, it kicks away the ladder for any team with the notion and wherewithal to break into the top tier of The League. Citeh had a close Indiana Jones'esk escape as they got through the doorway as the Million ton rock door sealed the way back. City got pinged but their owner just shuffled the loose change in his pocket and paid up, Liverpool were teetering on the knife edge and seemingly fast talked their way out of a fine......... Hull City got caught, fined, told off, and that was just financing their effort to get out of the Championship (I know different rules apply to the League) I am sure someone said that no other team could do what we did in the time we did it in the way we did it because of the restrictions now in place. Still bringing it back more on subject, can anyone recall our purchase of Lee Barnard ace Southend sharpshooter from under the noses of the mighty Leeds!!, apparently Leeds had a welcome Lee feature editorial in their matchday programme for the midweek game but instead of the Elland Road reveal he was in Southampton signed sealed and ours. The pure and simple solution to the open post question................. Blackmail: couple of cheeky little Treacles, some farm yard animals, bit of fruit, and a Polaroid camera, jobs a good un!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DG Posted 25 August, 2015 Share Posted 25 August, 2015 Communist revolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfc4prem Posted 25 August, 2015 Share Posted 25 August, 2015 Would you leave your job if you were offered more money and more chance of winning accolades or being successful? Of course you would. It is a rarity that people choose less expectations and less money over more pressure but more income. Money makes the world go round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mosin Posted 25 August, 2015 Share Posted 25 August, 2015 Would you leave your job if you were offered more money and more chance of winning accolades or being successful? Of course you would. It is a rarity that people choose less expectations and less money over more pressure but more income. Money makes the world go round. Not for all, not every one is driven by money, You do get people out there that put happiness above every thing else. Just ask club Legend MLT, am sure he could have doubled his wages but instead choose to follow his heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
positivepete Posted 25 August, 2015 Share Posted 25 August, 2015 Buy them from a Top 4 PL club (we'll see if it works for Bertrand and Romeu). What, like Sunderland did with the Man U cast offs........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Billy Posted 25 August, 2015 Author Share Posted 25 August, 2015 You tell Schneiderlin he can't leave. Was that the punchline you were after? It is possible to compete with players that aren't sought after, but they're not the ones who leave when you do well. So basically, we can't compete with sides with massive income and probably shouldn't try to unless FFP changes so it doesn't just favour the top 4, and someone decides to spend a few billion. No punchline, no answers just a genuine question. I don't believe there is any point in forcing a player to stay but I am asking basically how do we stay competitive in this league if the inevitable is that we will keep losing our best players whilst struggling to find adequate replacements. Although we have had a great couple of seasons I think we've reached the point where we cant sustain the loss of quality players again and we may be thrown into a scrap at the bottom end of the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cabrone Posted 25 August, 2015 Share Posted 25 August, 2015 You need European and specifically champions league football but even then the likes of Man Utd would still be able to better their wages and offer them a more realistic chance of regularly competing at the top level. You'd need to get into the top 4 and regularly qualify for a while to build up your cash and reputation to maybe keep the very best. However being as it's highly unlikely we'll qualify for champs league once let alone multiple times I don't think we have much choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 25 August, 2015 Share Posted 25 August, 2015 What, like Sunderland did with the Man U cast offs........... OK, so you also employ sensible people to identify the players needed (I took that as given as we seem to have that already). Anyone that buys Wes Brown deserves everything they get. WE seem to be Chelsea's new feeder club, maybe it will work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Lungs Posted 25 August, 2015 Share Posted 25 August, 2015 A Chelsea/Man City/PSG style takeover. Although very rich, Liebherr isn't running the club in that way. But we have still risen from 68th to 7th in English football between 2009 and 2015. So the Liebherr's can hardly be knocked for what they've done. No, they've done magnificent and I don't think there is one person who can knock them for what they've done. That aside, if we do, as a club, have any intention of "breaking the glass ceiling" (Les Reed's words, not mine), then we cannot continue to turn over the number of quality players year in, year out. You mention the Liebherr's don't run the club in that way, fair enough, but Kenwright, with significantly less resources at Everton, hasn't sold off their coveted players in bulk floggings. I think the main thing people are concerned about - and the fans aren't stupid - is that sure, clubs can want our players but are we (a) doing enough to keep them here in the first place (If it's money, can we do more - most people cite that it's money that is the allure, the glamour of playing for a big club, personally, I think it's a mesh of both) (b) investing enough in their replacements. We did the previous close season after huge outcry, but we've tried to go under the radar and do it cheaply this time. We, as fans and the players currently in the squad aren't stupid - some of them from last year's successful campaign must be thinking "Where is the club going exactly?" and you can't blame them, either. I hope we aren't selling the club to prospective players as a "stepping stone" to greater riches. Sure, we'll always have our place in the food chain but it's f()cking agonising to watch the squad, year after year, be torn apart because we possibly aren't doing as much as we could to keep those players - and putting our owners wealth aside, this is also despite all the new Premier League riches we have. So, is it a fair question to ask "Where are Southampton FC going?" then I believe yes, yes it is. Whether you'll get an honest, sincere and frank answer from Ralph or Les or just a fan-friendly soundbite prior to season ticket renewals is another thing altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 25 August, 2015 Share Posted 25 August, 2015 this seems to me to be the only way. I keep reading on here that we can't compete, because we can't pay £100k a week wages, but why not? We may not be able to pay the £250k a week like united, or £100k a week to all the players, but why not £120k a week to the likes of Morgan, Lallana, Clyne and Shaw? Perhaps if we hadn't wasted god knows how many millions on Osvaldo etc. the money might have been there to do exactly that? If paying £6.25m a year in wages to several players was that straightforward why aren't more clubs our size doing it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Bateman Posted 25 August, 2015 Share Posted 25 August, 2015 Any idea's? Also, is it possible to compete in this league with players that are not sought after? It's bloody obvious, you don't. We can through as much money as we like at the problem, but we aren't Man Utd, Liverpool. Barca, Real Madrid etc etc. These clubs have worldwide pedigree. Not only can they pay the wages, but people still want to play for them. In the last two years, name a player we could have kept by throwing more cash at them. Lovren - Wanted to play for Liverpool (worldwide stature) Lallana - Wanted to play for Liverpool (worldwide stature) Lambert - Wanted to play for Liverpool (worldwide stature & hometown club) Shaw - Wanted to play for the biggest club in the world and we got f**k loads of cash for him Morgan - Wanted to play for the biggest club in the world and play Champions League football and we couldn't deny him Chambers - F**k knows, but we did well out of that deal to be honest Clyne - Wanted to play for Liverpool (worldwide stature) Toby - The club messed that transfer up and Spurs took advantage, so not appropriate Until we start winning trophies, European trophies and have a worldwide appeal, we'll always be little old Southampton - it's how I grew up knowing my club, it's actually what I still like about our club. I don't want a team full of money-driven mercenaries. I want more young players breaking through along with the odd Jimmy Case or Alan Ball to help them. We may keep the odd loyal one, but if making them and selling them keeps me my football club in good health, enabling me, my children and grandkids to watch for generations, then fair enough. All I ask of the club is the odd trophy occasionally with some European adventures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brave Sir Robin Posted 25 August, 2015 Share Posted 25 August, 2015 They sign for us with the expectation that they'll catch the eye of a big club. It's like asking how can you keep the passengers on a train when it reaches it's destination! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 25 August, 2015 Share Posted 25 August, 2015 They have mega money which will win in the end, but Manchester is a bigger city than Southampton with more going on. Players will go anywhere if you pay them enough, it's all about the money. Of course, all things being equal London is a bigger pull than Southampton but it's not going to be a significant factor. The only way to keep good players is to spend silly money, it's that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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