Watford 0-0 Saints Post Match

[Donatello]

I've admittedly only seen the MOTD2 highlights of this game - if 'highlights' be the right word - but was that Romeu really as poor a midfielder as that brief glimpse made him look?

 

It's very tempting to put our current poor form down to the distraction of the 'Ropey' league - something tells me however that this competition won't start to properly hurt us until we are further on into the season. That's something else to worry about ...

 

As above, Romeu was one of our better players.

[Appy]

Last time I saw us play in Watford we got smashed 5-2, consider yourself lucky!

 

I mean in terms of lack of quality for both teams, in terms of Saints, there are a few contenders, Bristol Rovers in the Cup in 07/08 takes it on that one.

[The9]

I think we picked a good team to show we can still defend, and were massively improved defensively as a result. Cedric showed his value with a good performace up and down the right wing and some good stuff into the box, Caulker started passing it on the deck, Targett had a decent game despite being asked to do a role that's practically the opposite of what he's good at and showed some great tenacity at one point, and Watford didn't manage an effort on goal compared to our 5 shots on target. There were a few moments where the wing-backs were hung out to dry by the DMs not supporting them quickly enough when they had the ball and didn't give them a pass option, but it didn't happen too often when they were being attacked.

 

Clearly, losing our most creative attacking player in the first 25 minutes impacted on our likelihood of creating something, but we still did enough to have won it. I like the fact we're shooting from range a bit more often too, that enables us to mix it up around the box and stops us being too predictable.

 

Plenty to be positive about.

[The9]

I didn't see anything of the match but I heard that Mane might have been playing up, ie not actually injured. What do people who saw the game think?

 

I think Mane clearly got a couple of very solid whacks and may well have been concussed. He went off for treatment, came back on, went back to the ground in the next break, down the tunnel for assessment and got replaced when still down the tunnel - so if he was faking he fooled the medic. And he wasn't.

[The9]

No.

Highlights were ridiculous, Mane was already off before they showed anything of Saints. They were really just interested in Watford were doing, really don't know why anyone watches this stuff any more. Romeu was good again. I'm also not sure the yellow was warranted again (for the third time), replays showed clearly that he played and won the ball, was it dangerous? Not convinced, looked like the Watford player made it look worse. Think Romeu has a reputation that precedes him, think he should grow his hair so that he doesn't look like a thug and refs might stop picking on him :-)

 

Romeu's tackle was late and from behind, and left the player on the floor injured, he was lucky to only get a yellow. I doubt he has a reputation for anything having mostly been in Chelsea's reserves, but he and Wanyama did their defensive duties pretty well.

[Sour Mash]

Romeu's tackle was late and from behind, and left the player on the floor injured, he was lucky to only get a yellow. I doubt he has a reputation for anything having mostly been in Chelsea's reserves, but he and Wanyama did their defensive duties pretty well.

 

Yeah, it was a stupid, unnecessary challenge, in an otherwise good performance.

[shurlock]

I think we picked a good team to show we can still defend, and were massively improved defensively as a result. Cedric showed his value with a good performace up and down the right wing and some good stuff into the box, Caulker started passing it on the deck, Targett had a decent game despite being asked to do a role that's practically the opposite of what he's good at and showed some great tenacity at one point, and Watford didn't manage an effort on goal compared to our 5 shots on target. There were a few moments where the wing-backs were hung out to dry by the DMs not supporting them quickly enough when they had the ball and didn't give them a pass option, but it didn't happen too often when they were being attacked.

 

Clearly, losing our most creative attacking player in the first 25 minutes impacted on our likelihood of creating something, but we still did enough to have won it. I like the fact we're shooting from range a bit more often too, that enables us to mix it up around the box and stops us being too predictable.

 

Plenty to be positive about.

 

We did not do enough to win it. We didn't do enough even to create a decent chance. If any team should have won it on your reasoning, it was Watford.

Edited 24 August, 2015 by shurlock

[scotty]

I've admittedly only seen the MOTD2 highlights of this game - if 'highlights' be the right word - but was that Romeu really as poor a midfielder as that brief glimpse made him look?

 

 

I watched the whole game, and thought Romeu played very well indeed, really promising. I also thought Cedric was good, although he was better getting forward than defensively. He looked a bit shellshocked after the clattering that left his head bandaged.

 

As phil mentions above, that assault on Mane was pretty awful. Bad challenge to start with, then gomes came and stuck the boot in, Mane could hardly stand up. How neither of those two got at least a yellow is beyond me. Home decision, I suppose.

[suewhistle]

You heard very wrong. Mane was breaking through, their CB whacked him in the Hip/outside thigh, he pushed the ball too far and then got flattened by Gomes. Should have been a foul given by the CB outside the area. He clearly had a dead leg or close to at that point.

30 seconds later he was kicked up in the air on the touchline, came down hard and hit his head. Tried to stand up but couldn't. He was out of it TV showed a close up of his eyes. Our bench were all up and at the 4th Official.

 

When he was on the touchline on the ground he then got fouled again: you could see his whole shoulder move with the impact - the sort that makes the spectator go 'ooof' in sympathy. He was obviously targeted, and I'm not surprised our bench were angry.

[Batman]

I thought Romeu was pretty good.

 

Fonte was my MoM but he was next on the list (of not very many, mind)

 

he is going to get sent off soon enough though. some horrible challenges put in

[VectisSaint]

We did not do enough to win it. We didn't do enough even to create a decent chance. If any team should have won it, it was Watford.

Actually we did, we had several decent chances. Pelle could have scored from Davis' through ball, and then from the resulting corner (from Davis). Long could also have scored. Also Mane had a great chance before he went off when he passed across the box for Pelle, although it would have been a better chance if he had pulled it back for Davis who was storming in to the pen in acres of space (of course Davis may well have skyed it). We had 5 shots on target, whereas Watford had a big fat zero.

[shurlock]

Actually we did, we had several decent chances. Pelle could have scored from Davis' through ball, and then from the resulting corner (from Davis). Long could also have scored. Also Mane had a great chance before he went off when he passed across the box for Pelle, although it would have been a better chance if he had pulled it back for Davis who was storming in to the pen in acres of space (of course Davis may well have skyed it). We had 5 shots on target, whereas Watford had a big fat zero.

 

They were not decent chances in my book. Mané was running away from goal and would have had to thread a cross on the run past two defenders to Pelle who was on his heels.

 

From memory, the closest their keeper was tested was Wanyama's shot from distance that swerved a bit but was largely down his throat. We also may have had a few other long range shots, including Caulker's header from the edge of the box that padded the stats; whereas Watford should have scored from the free header and a shot-come-cross that Caulker and Soares nearly bundled into their own. Not saying Watford deserved the win - both teams were s***e going forward.

 

But there's a deluded school of thought that believes that as long as we keep things tight, we'll do enough to score because that's somehow inevitable over 90mins of to-and-fro football.

[Skeezo]

They did miss two open goals though.

[Whitey Grandad]

They did miss two open goals though.

 

Doesn't everybody? We've missed a few in our time.

[Saint_clark]

I think there is a very salient point here. Include TV money, and the club have cleared in excess of 200 MILLION in the last 18months. Do you think the end product yesterday reflects that ?

 

I wonder how much United have cleared in the last 2 years, and if their 0-0 this weekend reflects that.

This is football, hasn't it always been said that money doesn't guarantee success?

 

I have to say though, watching Bournemouth play fast attacking football with excellent passing did make me wonder why we can't do the same. We seem to be in the latter stages of the transformation from "unit that has grown together and fights for each other" to "team of individual mercenaries who don't really care all that much".

Edited 24 August, 2015 by Saint_clark

[The9]

I wonder how much United have cleared in the last 2 years, and if their 0-0 this weekend reflects that.

This is football, hasn't it always been said that money doesn't guarantee success?

 

It's factually accurate that wages paid has a strong correlation to final league position though.

[The9]

They were not decent chances in my book. Mané was running away from goal and would have had to thread a cross on the run past two defenders to Pelle who was on his heels.

 

From memory, the closest their keeper was tested was Wanyama's shot from distance that swerved a bit but was largely down his throat. We also may have had a few other long range shots, including Caulker's header from the edge of the box that padded the stats; whereas Watford should have scored from the free header and a shot-come-cross that Caulker and Soares nearly bundled into their own. Not saying Watford deserved the win - both teams were s***e going forward.

 

But there's a deluded school of thought that believes that as long as we keep things tight, we'll do enough to score because that's somehow inevitable over 90mins of to-and-fro football.

 

It's not deluded, we proved it all last season. If we don't concede, we win a lot more often than not. What's deluded is taking one result of 38 and regarding it as proof. There will always be some 0-0s.

 

You've also forgotten Pelle's shot into the top corner which Gomes turned round the post, Long making the space for a shot on the edge of the box and ballooning it instead of bending it into the corner, and Cedric's shot just over which was pretty good but should have been on target. Plus Long's near post header onto the roof of the net. And apparently that Mane creates lots of our chances with his movement and he got injured and had to be replaced.

[VectisSaint]

They were not decent chances in my book.

Ah now I understand, not decent chances "in your book". The "Book of What is a Decent Chance" by No **** Shurlock. Top of the Fiction charts?

So you missed the save by Gomes from Pelle, the corner from Davis headed over the bar from Long, the run through the middle by Mane that resulted in him being injured, even the shot from Cedric (probably the least of what could be called a chance because it was a long way out, but we've seen equally good chances in the last year from Clyne and Vic). There were some decent chances, but we have a misfiring strike "force" at the moment who need a great deal more chances because of their poor conversion ratio.

[Wes Tender]

Not from me....His management style seems to much in the mold of Harry Rednap for me (without the dodgy dealings and brown envelopes)

 

The apparent lack of fitness training and dropping our pressing game right from the start were the first alarm bells...After a full season under RK we're now playing like a group of 11 individuals just left to get on with it. We seem devoid of any cohesion, style, or belief.

 

You really are a dull wind-up merchant, aren't you? It seems to have escaped you that this last full season under RK, we achieved our best ever PL position. The only one devoid of any cohesion, style or belief is you.

[saint1977]

It's not the result, draw and clean sheet away is always OK really. But we just look so poor, and it's not just form, there's a lot of weaknesses in the side. It takes time to settle but last season it was clearer what the team was.

 

Koeman seems confused with it all really. Are we sticking with tadic or not? For me he's no different to Ramirez but we need one of them or we'll create bugger all. When did it all become hit and hope to pelle? And why bring long on? Juanmi or Rodriguez would have had near a whole game to impress centrally.

 

Davis seems to get in regardless of form. Can we really play 3 cms with no goal threat in a 352? So negative. From overly positive in the game at Newcastle, why?

 

Frustrated as we need to spend on a couple of players to come straight in and it won't happen. Vvd will be good but we need more than that. Him, Austin and a creative midfielder, £35m spent and I'd be happy. But even with endless sales and mega TV money and European football we still won't do it.

 

I broadly agree with this post, especially after reading about the concerns with regard to Tadic's health. Not sure we could sign VVD, a really good creative AMC and Austin from an FFP perspective though even if the club wanted to. Perhaps the club are after a AMC on loan if they can get Ramirez loaned out for his final year to free up wages? Wouldn't be totally surprised if JWP was loaned out to a decent Championship club to help him with his development.

 

Saints badly need one though, that much we do agree on, we are dire to watch at the moment and Norwich have to be strong favourites for next weekend unless we've had a very active week in the transfer window. Bertrand's return next month will help and hopefully Soares improves to give us a bit of width back. Victor has looked well out of sorts.

 

Glad we got a point, thanks to Fonte putting Deeney out of the game. Notable performance from Romeu and Soares improved although whether that was him or the formation I don't know. Hope Martina plays instead of Targett next weekend as Redmond will murder him.

 

Juamni looks to be exactly what we need to help unlock defences but Ronald doesn't seem to rate him. In which case, why sign him? Some very odd transfers in with the exceptions of Stek and Romeu. Caulker is never a Saints player in a million years and that signing got me concerned, it had 'cheapness' written all over it, as did the Martina signing. With Clasie, time will tell.

[shurlock]

It's not deluded, we proved it all last season. If we don't concede, we win a lot more often than not. What's deluded is taking one result of 38 and regarding it as proof. There will always be some 0-0s.

 

You've also forgotten Pelle's shot into the top corner which Gomes turned round the post, Long making the space for a shot on the edge of the box and ballooning it instead of bending it into the corner, and Cedric's shot just over which was pretty good but should have been on target. Plus Long's near post header onto the roof of the net. And apparently that Mane creates lots of our chances with his movement and he got injured and had to be replaced.

 

Both Cedric and Pelle's chances were from very tight angles and would have taken sonething v.special or an almighty gaffe from the keeper to go in at the near post (Cedric's had little power behind it). If you want hang things on those chances or the odd glancing header (tight angle, berated by DM) or a shot under pressure from the edge of the box, go ahead, fill your boots. Perhaps Long could have done a bit more with his chance in the first half; but got the ball caught under his feet as he was twisting inside with two players on him.

 

Am sure you can cite the number of chances a team needs to create on average in order to score. You'll know that number is pretty high, especially from the areas of the pitch we worked our limited chances. Tell yourself what you like but we really did not do enough to score, though things might have been different if Mane had stayed on the pitch.

Edited 24 August, 2015 by shurlock

[Wes Tender]

I really don't get why the club gets blamed for these players leaving, Morgan wanted to leave, Lallana wanted to leave, Lovren wanted to leave, Clyne wanted to leave, Toby wanted to go to spuds.

 

etc etc. Not much they can do but get the best amount for them, they can't force them to sign new contracts and we can't offer players £100k a week.

 

Get the best price for the players, sign the best replacements we can, get used to it, that's modern football. The ONLY way we'll break into the top 4 is if we splurge like Chelsea and Man City did, which isn't happening and Fair play rules means that it's even more difficult.

 

Unless they being in wage and spending caps, this is the Premier League, 3-4 clubs with all the money that kick down anyone that dares to challenge them.

 

Exactly. The moronic conclusion reached by the idiot Sinclair was that the sale of all those players pointed to a lack of ambition by the club. As an ex-footballer himself, he ought to have enough awareness of how footballers with ambition behave and how difficult it is for a club to keep players who want to leave for a higher placed club offering multiple times the wages. No doubt he would have declined such an offer himself, such would have been his commitment to aiding his club's ambitions over his own.

 

The fact that all those players and the manager left last season and yet we managed to replace them with others who turned out to be capable of actually improving our position, must have had much more to do with luck than ambition in his opinion.

 

He ought to stick purely to punditry of the matches, rather than commenting on things he knows nothing about, like concluding that the board of a club which has been on the greatest upward trajectory of any club in recent history had achieved that with a total lack of ambition.

[Chez]

Ah now I understand, not decent chances "in your book". The "Book of What is a Decent Chance" by No **** Shurlock. Top of the Fiction charts?

So you missed the save by Gomes from Pelle, the corner from Davis headed over the bar from Long, the run through the middle by Mane that resulted in him being injured, even the shot from Cedric (probably the least of what could be called a chance because it was a long way out, but we've seen equally good chances in the last year from Clyne and Vic). There were some decent chances, but we have a misfiring strike "force" at the moment who need a great deal more chances because of their poor conversion ratio.

 

there wasn't exactly a chance where you would have said to yourself "he should have scored there"

[Bucks Saint]

Hope Martina plays instead of Targett next weekend as Redmond will murder him.

 

Juamni looks to be exactly what we need to help unlock defences but Ronald doesn't seem to rate him. In which case, why sign him? Some very odd transfers in with the exceptions of Stek and Romeu. Caulker is never a Saints player in a million years and that signing got me concerned, it had 'cheapness' written all over it, as did the Martina signing. With Clasie, time will tell.

 

Strange, most posters thought that Caulker had a decent game defensively and got forward to support the attack well too. Do you rate Martina or not, saying he has to play versus Norwich and then saying he smacks of cheapness?

[RedAndWhite91]

Again, lacking something. Something missing. Not clinical, no cutting edge. It was like watching a Championship game.

 

Positives:

-I really like the look of Romeu. Looks composed on the ball and likes to get stuck in.

-Clean sheet. I thought Fonte had a good game, and I was impressed by Yoshida's performance. He gets a lot of stick, but thought he was absolutely solid yesterday.

 

Negatives:

-Unfortunately I think Targett looks out of his depth currently. He's young and inexperienced so I am willing to cut him some slack. I was stood front row and could hear some of the players' shouts. At one point, Stekelenberg had the ball in his hands and looked towards Targett who was moseying about on the left. Skeletonberg screamed at him to get down the wing and give an option, Targett then jogged on a bit, Skeletonburger looked a bit miffed before hoofing the ball long and down the middle.

-Lack of clear cut chances. I don't think Gomes was seriously tested once. A few pot shots with comfortable saves was it, at most.

[stknowle]

OOh, you've said it now ? 15th, 16th or 17th ?

 

I'm tending towards 13th. Dalek one do you wish to put your money where your, er that thing that looks like a sink plunger is, and have a bet on which of us is closest come the season's end??? (I am assuming you are sticking with your 17th mantra)

[Dalek2003]

I'm tending towards 13th. Dalek one do you wish to put your money where your, er that thing that looks like a sink plunger is, and have a bet on which of us is closest come the season's end??? (I am assuming you are sticking with your 17th mantra)

 

I said 15th to 16th this year, do you still want the bet ?

[stknowle]

I said 15th to 16th this year, do you still want the bet ?

 

Yes, you will need decide on either 15th or 16th though. (£17 stake seems appropriate).

[Saint George]

You really are a dull wind-up merchant, aren't you? It seems to have escaped you that this last full season under RK, we achieved our best ever PL position. The only one devoid of any cohesion, style or belief is you.

 

So you're saying the current Saints team are playing with style, cohesion and belief?....really?...No wonder you thought Wilde would be such a good deal for Saints.

 

Last years success was built in the first half of the season while the surviving players from the mass exodus still had some influence from the Bielsa philosophy and Pochittino fitness levels...We were at least still pressing to some degree, defending a high line and quick in transition, and had a degree of belief.....all of which faded as the season wore on and the team became more Koeman's than Pochettino's

 

This season's team is 100% Koeman's....and look's more like Redknapp's team than Pochittino's

[VectisSaint]

-Lack of clear cut chances. I don't think Gomes was seriously tested once. A few pot shots with comfortable saves was it, at most.

33 seconds: http://wall.saintsfc.co.uk/Article/1383772-60-SECOND-HIGHLIGHTS-Watford-0-0-Southampton

Maybe it was going off target, but Gomes felt the need to make a spectacular save.

[The9]

there wasn't exactly a chance where you would have said to yourself "he should have scored there"

 

Long's shot was a very good chance that he was also very annoyed about. Made space on the edge of the box and then curved it 10 yards over the bar.

[The9]

Both Cedric and Pelle's chances were from very tight angles and would have taken sonething v.special or an almighty gaffe from the keeper to go in at the near post (Cedric's had little power behind it). If you want hang things on those chances or the odd glancing header (tight angle, berated by DM) or a shot under pressure from the edge of the box, go ahead, fill your boots. Perhaps Long could have done a bit more with his chance in the first half; but got the ball caught under his feet as he was twisting inside with two players on him.

 

Am sure you can cite the number of chances a team needs to create on average in order to score. You'll know that number is pretty high, especially from the areas of the pitch we worked our limited chances. Tell yourself what you like but we really did not do enough to score, though things might have been different if Mane had stayed on the pitch.

 

Pelle's chance was going in, from 10 yards out and an excellent save. With the chances made in the areas they were in, I'd have expected us to score at least once.

[derry]

How we are going to score goals with two forwards who can score and three midfielder and five defenders who will only snatch something from a favourable free kick or corner? It was a classic case of parking the bus. If we are going to play seven defensive players then the other three really have to be capable of scoring something that escapes Davis and JWP. If we use that formation again maybe bench Pelle and play Mane and Rodriguez off Long. We made it far too easy for the Watford defence.

[The9]

How we are going to score goals with two forwards who can score and three midfielder and five defenders who will only snatch something from a favourable free kick or corner? It was a classic case of parking the bus. If we are going to play seven defensive players then the other three really have to be capable of scoring something that escapes Davis and JWP. If we use that formation again maybe bench Pelle and play Mane and Rodriguez off Long. We made it far too easy for the Watford defence.

 

The same way we did it all of last season, in achieving our best Prem points finish.

[Window Cleaner]

How we are going to score goals with two forwards who can score and three midfielder and five defenders who will only snatch something from a favourable free kick or corner? It was a classic case of parking the bus. If we are going to play seven defensive players then the other three really have to be capable of scoring something that escapes Davis and JWP. If we use that formation again maybe bench Pelle and play Mane and Rodriguez off Long. We made it far too easy for the Watford defence.

 

Do we ever bench Pelle ? Can only remember one occasion when that has actually happened.

[The9]

Do we ever bench Pelle ? Can only remember one occasion when that has actually happened.

 

We dropped him against Chelsea last season and he's been substituted a couple of times recently. What seems to be fairly obvious is that Koeman is happy playing Rodriguez up top on his own towards the end of the game.

[Sour Mash]

33 seconds: http://wall.saintsfc.co.uk/Article/1383772-60-SECOND-HIGHLIGHTS-Watford-0-0-Southampton

Maybe it was going off target, but Gomes felt the need to make a spectacular save.

 

Watching that back Mane was clearly fouled when clear through early on.

[The9]

Watching that back Mane was clearly fouled when clear through early on.

 

I think the flag was already up for (edit) him pulling the defender back.

Edited 24 August, 2015 by The9

[CanadaSaint]

If a player like Pelle is going to be effective, we need others to anticipate his knock-downs and layoffs and burst into the space they can open up. Nobody is really doing that right now. Mané tends to do his own thing (lethal at some times, almost laughable at others) and JayRod (who fed really well off Lambert) isn't back to full fitness yet - physical fitness or match fitness. Advanced midfielders could certainly do it but Davis couldn't score in a brothel and JWP is far from the player he looked like becoming; even if they are there for the layoff, their first instinct is to turn and pass square or backwards. Opportunity lost.

 

For me, Pelle takes a lot of sh*t as a result of the inadequacies of others.

[RedAndWhite91]

33 seconds: http://wall.saintsfc.co.uk/Article/1383772-60-SECOND-HIGHLIGHTS-Watford-0-0-Southampton

Maybe it was going off target, but Gomes felt the need to make a spectacular save.

 

Yeah I had a good view of that one - One for the cameras I think! Perhaps you could call that a clear cut chance, but either way, I don't think there was any danger of it going in..

[The9]

If a player like Pelle is going to be effective, we need others to anticipate his knock-downs and layoffs and burst into the space they can open up. Nobody is really doing that right now. Mané tends to do his own thing (lethal at some times, almost laughable at others) and JayRod (who fed really well off Lambert) isn't back to full fitness yet - physical fitness or match fitness. Advanced midfielders could certainly do it but Davis couldn't score in a brothel and JWP is far from the player he looked like becoming; even if they are there for the layoff, their first instinct is to turn and pass square or backwards. Opportunity lost.

 

For me, Pelle takes a lot of sh*t as a result of the inadequacies of others.

 

They were doing that loads on Thursday, he dropped off, Rodriguez or occasionally Mane (twice both) went for the flick on. Rodriguez is completely fit to play about half an hour, the only way he's getting past that is by playing longer.

[Chez]

The same way we did it all of last season, in achieving our best Prem points finish.

 

Keep a clean sheet and score the odd goal might be the same mantra, but I don't see any similarities in the method, style or performance yesterday when compared with last season. Chalk and cheese.

[shurlock]

Keep a clean sheet and score the odd goal might be the same mantra, but I don't see any similarities in the method, style or performance yesterday when compared with last season. Chalk and cheese.

 

Spot on. Even among the limp performances last season, we created more than we did yesterday - think WBA away where Pelle flashed a virtual tap-in from Bertrand's cross across the face of the goal. Yesterday was not the blueprint of how to do things.

[The9]

Keep a clean sheet and score the odd goal might be the same mantra, but I don't see any similarities in the method, style or performance yesterday when compared with last season. Chalk and cheese.

 

It's just trying to find a way to get the same outcomes with less resources. Just having Bertrand back would make a difference, never mind losing Schneiderlin and Alderweireld and having to work around that. I think we're doing just fine considering what we're missing, this stuff doesn't happen overnight.

[The9]

Spot on. Even among the limp performances last season, we created more than we did yesterday - think WBA away where Pelle flashed a virtual tap-in from Bertrand's cross across the face of the goal. Yesterday was not the blueprint of how to do things.

 

Based on our stats so far this season, WhoScored.com lists "creating scoring chances" as a strong point (as well as aerial duels), with "avoiding individual errors" and "defending set pieces" as WEAK, and "finishing scoring chances" and "defending counter attacks" as VERY WEAK.

 

http://www.whoscored.com/Teams/18/Show/England-Southampton

 

So basically, we attack more than most but miss a higher proportion of our chances than most (hence not scoring) and have until this weekend been poor at defending as well as making mistakes and getting caught on the counter, for which more having more defensive players is definitely a known solution.

 

Or you can carry on beating your contrary drum and be "right" in the sense that outliers and anomalies exist in the very short term. Basically as long as it takes for our system to work again. Which will be about as long as it takes for us to get a decent CB (which could become Caulker) and for the defensive midfielders to get somewhere near the level of last season's.

[Saints foreva]

Good to get a clean sheet after last weekends horror show defensively but even yesterday was down to luck. They missed two sitters.

 

Lack of creativity from us but that isn't a surprise considering Mane went off early on.

[The9]

Good to get a clean sheet after last weekends horror show defensively but even yesterday was down to luck. They missed two sitters.

 

Lack of creativity from us but that isn't a surprise considering Mane went off early on.

 

Most of what happens is down to "luck" in some way, Capoue not being skilful enough to head a deflected ball into the net from 2 yards out is as much "luck" as our most creative player missing 65 minutes of the match due to injury. That's just football, which also has far more variance in results compared to odds than most other sports. It's about trying to influence as many of the bits in your control as you can - hence the correlation between wages and league table position.

[shurlock]

Based on our stats so far this season, WhoScored.com lists "creating scoring chances" as a strong point (as well as aerial duels), with "avoiding individual errors" and "defending set pieces" as WEAK, and "finishing scoring chances" and "defending counter attacks" as VERY WEAK.

 

http://www.whoscored.com/Teams/18/Show/England-Southampton

 

So basically, we attack more than most but miss a higher proportion of our chances than most (hence not scoring) and have until this weekend been poor at defending as well as making mistakes and getting caught on the counter, for which more having more defensive players is definitely a known solution.

 

Or you can carry on beating your contrary drum and be "right" in the sense that outliers and anomalies exist in the very short term. Basically as long as it takes for our system to work again. Which will be about as long as it takes for us to get a decent CB (which could become Caulker) and for the defensive midfielders to get somewhere near the level of last season's.

 

Or to take the data and the inferences with a complete pinch of salt. As a fact, we have had more shots than many other teams. So what without know where they were taken (even within the 18-yard box, there's a huge amount of variation in chance success)? For all we know, it might be a sign that we're not creating enough and we're forcing more efforts to compensate. It does not follow that we're failing to take our chances. Apart from Mané's injury time chance up at Newcastle (not Colback's block), Maya's header and Mané's shot that was well-saved by Howard, the smell test doesn't suggest we've been particularly wasteful. Of course, it's still early days.

Edited 24 August, 2015 by shurlock

[The9]

Facts not good enough for you, replying on flawed hypotheses and smell tests, yeah, you fit right in here.

[shurlock]

Facts not good enough for you, replying on flawed hypotheses and smell tests, yeah, you fit right in here.

 

Garbage in, garbage out.