Watford 0-0 Saints Post Match

[Baird of the land]

Looks like we played for a point and got a point.

 

Thought Fonte was excellent & clearly mom.

Caulker played well in the 2nd half after looking dodgy in the first half.

Romeu: Was looking ok till for third game in the row went nutty and easily could have been sent off for an utterly reckless tackle.

Long worked hard based on awful service. Shame Mane had to go off as he was causing them problems early on.

 

On the whole while the shift to 5-3-2, helped cedric & targett. Neither were terrible but neither offered enough quality in the opposition half. Can't say i've been particularly impressed by Cedric as a signing.

On another day we would have possibly lost 1-0 nil as they have best chance of the game.

I was disappointed we went so negative. Would have much preferred the likes of Tadic in the side who don't fit this formation.

Bit worried about the amount of long balls we are playing over quick incisive passing. Don't think the balance of Romeu and Wanyama works as both have the same strengths and limitations. More solid than with Davis in there. Keeping my fingers crossed Clasie can fit in to that role of being a defensive shield but also much more all round ability on the ball.

[VectisSaint]

 

The reality of the situation is that by the WBA match, we can field a side that looks something like -

Hardly reality to include VVD given we haven't signed him yet, and not sure that Clasie or Bertrand will be back even by then (though that's the aim). Unless of course you know something.

[Saint Without a Halo]

Well... tou could slag everyone off.... or you can support the damn team.

 

People need to accept that under this board, we will need to do rebuilding jobs (god help us post Koeman).

 

The current team hasn't quite clicked yet, but signs of progress today with a much more solid team. We need to start at the back and then work forward.

 

Newcastle away we should have won.

Everton we were poor against, but regardless they are a top 8 finish team this year and having a bad day against any top 8 team leads to a defeat.

Watford, new team flying high after promotion, away from home and after an awful performance... I'd take a draw frankly.

 

Tactics, and team composition need work. But we will get there. As it is, the balance is off, and hopefully the europa league will help us get that balance quicker.

 

Though Romeu was lucky not to get sent off. Target is getting better and better recently, finding his feet and confidence. Jose was a beast today. And Caulker looked better - wins a lot in the air and made some great saving tackles, but also still a tad sloppy at time and still ball watches too much. Cedric looking good, a little fighter and very fit it seems, never stopped running.

 

All in all, a clean sheet and a point away from home... On to the next one!

 

For those that want to grumble about the team, composition and teamwork... This is Les' master plan, flog our souls and put the money somewhere (anyone know where it is btw?)... We have reaped a load of praise for it over the seasons but at the same time, it can't always be good! So suck up, quit *****ing, and get ready to see how the new boys do when we settle....

 

Just look at the Mane thread last season for a view of how ****e it can be at the start - he is now viewed as one of our best players.

 

True he is now one of our best players if not the best, largely through improvement but also because the other candidates have either, left, regressed or are injured.

[S-Clarke]

So you are sure Van Dijk will sign then Guan?

 

I think most people in the world know he's going to sign tbh. In fact he probably already has bar the signature.

[Give it to Ron]

Utterly poor performance.

 

I think staying up will be the aim this year

 

Time for another name change!!

Battered 0-3 at home last weeks shut down this week away it's what teams do

You expect us to not progress Over the season and be worse than Sunderland West Ham Newcastle and 3 promoted clubs?

Come on post the Morgan shaped hole quote again

 

 

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Edited 23 August, 2015 by Give it to Ron

[SaintTex]

01) This game reminded me a lot of the 2nd game of last season against West Brom that ended 0-0 draw.

 

toothless, dull, anemic. I remember having a sinking feeling after that game that we were in for a rough season (not to mention the dreadful first half against West Ham the following match.)

 

We went on an incredible run after that.. wishful thinking I suppose.

 

02) interestingly, we didn't have a second draw of the season until the 12th match of the season. Doesn't mean much really, just interesting.

 

03) When I saw the lineup announced, 0-0 seems to be what the obvious result would be today.

 

04) that being said, I like the formation but not with the squad we have available at the moment. Would look a lot better with these players.

 

------------------Stek--------------------

Cedric--Fonte--VvD--Caulker--Bertrand

--------Wanyama----Romeu-------------

-----------------Clasie--------------------

----Mane--------Pelle------------Tadic---

 

Tadic/Bertrand is a proven matchup.

Mane is Mane.

Pelle is Pelle.

Cedric can provide good crosses.

Hopefully, Clasie can distribute.

I like Caulker's presence on set pieces in front of the opponent's goal.

I think the Wanyama/Romeu pairing will work, but they are going to be suspended on yellows a lot! Need to coordinate their suspensions.

 

my 2 cents.. as us Yanks say.

[Bewildered]

Stek - Not much to do, watfords two best opportunities didn't need him to do anything.

 

Caulker - Looked iffy at times. Interesting that he seemed to join in with attacks, perhaps doing what Koeman will want VVD to do if we get him?

Fonte - Much better performance, dominated Deeney.

Yoshida - Didn't do anything particularly wrong.

 

Cedric - Looked better defensively, but worse going forward.

Wanyama - Too casual at times.

Romeu - Good game apart from one stupid tackle.

Davis - Failed to really create much. Long story short, he's a workhorse and with two non creative DMs, you need a bit more ingenuity than he seems able to provide. Put in a shift defensively though.

Targett - Unfortunately not good really, found the second half tough. Didn't really get forward well either.

 

Pelle - Not at his best today, but it should be acknowledged that the service was abysmal and Long and Davis didn't get close enough to him to make much of knockdowns.

Mane - Looked our best attacking player before he went off injured

 

Subs:

 

Long - Runs around a lot, but didn't work well with Pelle and most of his runs led him down blind alleys

JWP - Wasn't given enough time.

Rodriguez - Nowhere near long enough.

 

Felt like Koeman settled for a draw. Disappointed he didn't send on Tadic or Juanmi.

[Convict Colony]

Actually thought the 3 at the back worked really well, I thought Caulker played very well in there and sort of played a "Van Dijk" role for us.

 

Romeu is racing Mitrovic for consecutive yellow cards.

 

Vic was neither here or there in my opinion, some lazy passing.

 

Pelle had a breeze block for a foot today, maybe needs a rest anyway.

 

Cedric, I'm undecided, he kept cutting back before crossing which slowed down the play and allowed the defenders to get back.

 

Targett did ok against the fastest dude on the pitch.

 

I am no longer commenting on our AM.

[Cabrone]

Like last Thursday we badly need some creative spark up front.

 

A point away is fine but we need to back that up with strong home performances.

 

Tadic and\or Juanmi need to get on the pitch on Thursday. We need to pick their pockets if we want to progress.

[Max]

Positives: Stek was solid; Romeu and Wanyama are learning to play together and looked so much better than last match; Caulker slowly improved; Fonte was a rock; Cedric beginning to settle;

 

Negatives: Targett still looks out of his depth (but Ryan will be back soon), Mane injured; Pelle annoyed; Davis did what Davis does; NO CREATIVITY!!!

[Dalek2003]

A point away from home is something, if we can get our home form going we will be OK.

 

Having said that, we were playing a very ordinary side, newly promoted, who really should have won.

 

We need a fast mobile striker and CB. Charlie Austin and VVD ?

[Leo_ARG]

If you play for a point against Watford I guess you play not to lose by more than 3 goals against the likes of Chelsea, right?

 

Come on! That was unacceptable.

[Saint Charlie]

On paper we had a great start to the season which makes the peformances even more disappointing.

[Andy Durman]

I think Koeman has in mind a 1-3-4-2-1 system using Fonte, Caulker and VVD and wing backs.

 

The9 I await your reply.

 

By the way my team played a 1-4-3-2-1 Christmas tree system with fast conditioned full backs and won 7-0 in the Toto Cup.

 

But I don't know what I'm doing.

 

LOL

[CanadaSaint]

Sure, that's not a shadow of the side we've watched in the past two years ... BUT it's not a shadow of the side we'll see when the missing players (including, hopefully, VvD) are in the line up.

 

I think RK is running a bit of a low-ambition holding operation, waiting to be able to pick his real starting eleven. An away point against a newly-promoted side is seldom a bad result in the first 5-10 games of the season, especially when you're 3-4 players short of your best line up, so I'll take it.

 

Someone needs to have a word in the ears of Wanyama and Romeu. They are key to our success and they can't keep picking up silly yellow cards because we can't afford to lose them. There's smart/necessary combative, and there's stupid combative.

[Bucks Saint]

Going to be long couple of months before we start properly firing IMO. Until then, clean sheets at least I hope

[Saint Charlie]

A point away from home is something, if we can get our home form going we will be OK.

 

Having said that, we were playing a very ordinary side, newly promoted, who really should have won.

 

We need a fast mobile striker and CB. Charlie Austin and VVD ?

 

We have a fast mobile striker in Mane (Austin has neither of those attributes anyway).

 

What need is Tadic back to his best and a better version of Davis, JWP who creates rather than is just neat.

[Toomer]

We were lucky last season the new additions clicked from day one this season it has not, although some people might say we should be beating teams like Watford a point away from home is not a bad result if there has not been a marked improvement by the end of September then I will start to worry.

[stknowle]

Obviously not great but overall I'm happy with that due to our looking far, far more solid albeit against a team you would expect to be amongst the weakest in the division. Fek all going forward but that's a product of the more cautious approach, as are the absences of the gaping midfield holes and exposed full-backs.

Romeu looks very handy at what he was bought to do but needs to calm it a bit, Vic was ok but the passing is still very erratic. Fonte was superb all game. Shame about Sadio as he looked up for it.

 

Based on the first 3 games of the season I cannot see 3 obvious relegation candidates. Sunderland maybe but even they forced a point yesterday after an awful start, but the 3 that have come up have all done well and no other team stands out as particularly bad. Could be very close this year.

[Dalek2003]

Anyone who's expectation is that Saints stay up this season will (probably) be happy come May. If you're expecting anything more, you'll probably have burst a blood vessel by October. Enjoy either way.

 

Staying up is always the primary objective, anything more is a bonus.

[saintant]

It seems we've finally learned our lesson. Build a side full of crap players and none of the big boys will want to lure them away. Simple.

[Max]

We need Le Tiss circa 1995/6. That would solve everything!

[Tommog]

The Good

Romeu looks like a bit of quality

Point away from home

 

The Bad

Have zero ideas going forward. I am not a fan that demands Barca style football at the expense of results. I want results no matter how we get them but whatever we were doing was never going to unlock even Watford's defence.

 

So p*ssed off at the amount of people hailing VVD as our saviour. Firstly he hasn't even signed for us. Secondly i'll reserve judgement on whether he is actually any good after 4-5 clean sheets.

[saint michael]

1 win in 9 now I don't see any quick fixes here. Long hard season ahead I feel

[Dalek2003]

Obviously not great but overall I'm happy with that due to our looking far, far more solid albeit against a team you would expect to be amongst the weakest in the division. Fek all going forward but that's a product of the more cautious approach, as are the absences of the gaping midfield holes and exposed full-backs.

Romeu looks very handy at what he was bought to do but needs to calm it a bit, Vic was ok but the passing is still very erratic. Fonte was superb all game. Shame about Sadio as he looked up for it.

 

Based on the first 3 games of the season I cannot see 3 obvious relegation candidates. Sunderland maybe but even they forced a point yesterday after an awful start, but the 3 that have come up have all done well and no other team stands out as particularly bad. Could be very close this year.

 

OOh, you've said it now ? 15th, 16th or 17th ?

[Give it to Ron]

If you play for a point against Watford I guess you play not to lose by more than 3 goals against the likes of Chelsea, right?

 

Come on! That was unacceptable.

 

When you have been dicked 0/3 in last home game and got a tricky Europa game ahead yes I can see why 0-0 today is a result- not ideal but we didn't lose and morale not battered more

 

 

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[Batman]

thank god we play Norwich next week

Have to get a boost by beating that lot, surely

[Lord Duckhunter]

If JWP is a England star of the future, god help us . Waste of time bringing him on .

[CanadaSaint]

So p*ssed off at the amount of people hailing VVD as our saviour. Firstly he hasn't even signed for us. Secondly i'll reserve judgement on whether he is actually any good after 4-5 clean sheets.

 

I don't think anyone is "hailing VVD as our saviour".

 

I see a lot of people thinking that he's better than what we have, that he can pair up well with Fonte, and that he could add an element we don't have - a defender able to push forward and add a dimension to our offence (much like Koeman used to do).

 

Saviour? No. Improvement? Very likely.

[Batman]

If JWP is a England star of the future, god help us . Waste of time bringing him on .

 

Juanmi sat on his arse on the bench

[T.REX]

It was pretty dire stuff but we did have games like that last season and at least the defensive stability was back. I think the balance still isn't right, in the first two games we were pretty naive to play four attacking players with only Davis and Wanyama shielding the defence but with Romeu and Wanyama in there together (and an extra defender) we could have afforded to play Juanmi or Tadic in this game ahead of Davis to provide at least some creativity. Having said that, if Mane had stayed on the pitch we may have found a way to sneak a 1-0.

 

Thought Cedric had a much better game and the 3-5-2 could potentially be pretty effective with Van Dijk, Clasie and Bertrand in the side.

[Dalek2003]

thank god we play Norwich next week

Have to get a boost by beating that lot, surely

 

Norwich are playing very well and should have won yesterday. We will have to defend well or we could get a spanking.

[Ohio Saint]

We are Saints. We move on.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Juanmi sat on his arse on the bench

 

Exactly , and Tadic .

 

What exactly does JWP do , the blokes a myth .

[Batman]

Exactly , and Tadic .

 

What exactly does JWP do , the blokes a myth .

 

im guessing RK has an eye on the Europa League. Which is a shame.

[CanadaSaint]

If JWP is a England star of the future, god help us . Waste of time bringing him on .

 

I'd like to know what has happened to him behind the scenes. He was at that kind of level not too far back but he's taken on a lot of the Davis characteristics in his 'offensive' game, but lacks Davis's chase-back tenacity in his defensive game.

 

I don't know whether it's a coaching thing or a confidence thing, but the result is really disappointing.

[M271]

It seems to be the simple things that we can't get right at the moment. Our passing to inaccurate and rushed, over hitting passes. Making the wrong decision when close to the opposition goal such taking a shot when playing someone in would be better and conversely looking to pass when in a good position to shoot.

As others have said the result is OK but it's the performance and way which we are playing which is of concern to me where has the possession football and silky passing gone and where did the hoof ball come from, a la Stoke and West Ham in the past? We seem to have lost the art of passing through sides to create chances.

[Crab Lungs]

 

Frustrated as we need to spend on a couple of players to come straight in and it won't happen. Vvd will be good but we need more than that. Him, Austin and a creative midfielder, £35m spent and I'd be happy. But even with endless sales and mega TV money and European football we still won't do it.

 

And there it is...

[scotty]

I must have been watching a different game. Thought we looked really good, against a side who'd clearly been told to kick seven shades of sh*t out of us. Romeu and Cedric were both good, Targett is looking better by the minute, Stekk was solid, I'm feeling a lot more optimistic than I was after the last game.

[Tommog]

1 goal in 3 games from a penalty really isn't great is it

 

Yeah I agree. I have been so disappointed with the defence I really thought the attack would take care of itself. On paper we have a lot of options. But there seems to be an issue going forward as well.

 

It seems to me the defence is so weak at the moment we need the midfield to act as another line of defence. Which seemed to shore things up a little today. But at the expense of our attack.

 

Im often reminded "southampton are not a big team get used to it" which to me is just negative thinking. But just because you are a small team doesnt mean you can't have exciting attacking players stay with you for more than a season. Just look at Palace, Swansea even Leicester

[Badger]

An away point is always welcome, but Watford are a side we should expect to beat if we've got serious ambitions of top ten again.

 

Defensively we may have improved today, but from what I've seen we still lack creativity going forward, and a serious goalscoring threat. Mane is probably our most likely goalscorer it seems, although his attemps at Newcastle in the last minute, and possibly his one on one v Everton (at 0-0) could have given two extra pints at least. Going off injured today didn't help our cause, neither did having Long as his replacement.

 

Its the lack of a serious goal threat that concerns me more than todays result. I don't expect Rodriguez to turn into a 20 goal a season player no matter how good his link up play (with Lambert & Lallana) used to be.

[Chez]

Exactly , and Tadic .

 

What exactly does JWP do , the blokes a myth .

 

Walking advert for our academy whilst we are playing well and winning, but become less to shout about when you take the good players out of the side and there is no where to hide. Mind you that can be sad of quite a few of our players now they can no longer hide behind Morgan's athleticism which constantly got everyone out of jail.

 

you look at JWP and Targett and it's clear they are a long way short of being top class. Plenty of time for them to improve and shine, but would a Premiership side buy them now if either were playing in the championship. Not a chance.

[Saxon]

We went back to basics today, had a good shape, good organisation and defended very well as units over the pitch. This meant that we lacked much of an attacking threat, but that wasn't helped by the withdrawal of Mane.

 

I think we just needed to get back to basics with defending, which we did. The goals will come as long as we get the defensive basics correct.

 

Neither team deserved to win, neither team deserved to lose. Playing away at promoted teams in the first bunch of games isn't ideal.

 

Agree with this. We looked much more solid at the back. Some silly niggles here and there, but partly down to Watford's creative players.

 

Targett looking a bit lightweight at times, but on the whole I think this set-up suited us much better defensively.

 

Going forward, we played some nice passing work and created some chances, its just a shame it was the same old in terms of actually finishing them.

 

I think definitely an improvement and something to build upon for Thursday.

 

COYR!

[Max]

I must have been watching a different game. Thought we looked really good, against a side who'd clearly been told to kick seven shades of sh*t out of us. Romeu and Cedric were both good, Targett is looking better by the minute, Stekk was solid, I'm feeling a lot more optimistic than I was after the last game.

 

What was the score in the game you watched? Sounds much better than the one I saw! In my one we had no creativity and Targett was still not up to much, and its the first time that I've seen our players having a moan at each other. Quite sad. Big positive was RomVic combo.

[Chez]

im guessing RK has an eye on the Europa League. Which is a shame.

 

Why is it a shame. Some fans actually want to see us get through.

[Batman]

And there it is...

 

the wolves will be out soon enough. saying what else could the club do etc

 

we sign Juanmi, who cant buy a game and stoke by Shaquiri, Palace buy Cabeye.

[Andy_Porter]

We played like that fairly often last season, only difference was we didn't get a goal today. If we had hit them on the break and scored it would be seen as a classic away performance.

 

As it is we lack any confidence on the ball to make things happen and really miss Toby bringing the ball from the back.

 

That same set up with Classie, Bertrand, Mane and hopefully a CB who can play a bit will get us plenty of results.

[Dalek2003]

It's not the result, draw and clean sheet away is always OK really. But we just look so poor, and it's not just form, there's a lot of weaknesses in the side. It takes time to settle but last season it was clearer what the team was.

 

Koeman seems confused with it all really. Are we sticking with tadic or not? For me he's no different to Ramirez but we need one of them or we'll create bugger all. When did it all become hit and hope to pelle? And why bring long on? Juanmi or Rodriguez would have had near a whole game to impress centrally.

 

Davis seems to get in regardless of form. Can we really play 3 cms with no goal threat in a 352? So negative. From overly positive in the game at Newcastle, why?

 

Frustrated as we need to spend on a couple of players to come straight in and it won't happen. Vvd will be good but we need more than that. Him, Austin and a creative midfielder, £35m spent and I'd be happy. But even with endless sales and mega TV money and European football we still won't do it.

 

'We will not do it' because we will not take the risk. We are run on a 'sustainable' basis and that means making a profit. I think we are also geared to survive relegation if the worst happens with the view of being able to sustain a season or two in the championship and getting promoted again. This is the model that Norwich apply and I am sure it is our model as well TBH, I would rather this than the QPR or P*****muff model.

[Badger]

It's not the result, draw and clean sheet away is always OK really. But we just look so poor, and it's not just form, there's a lot of weaknesses in the side. It takes time to settle but last season it was clearer what the team was.

 

 

Frustrated as we need to spend on a couple of players to come straight in and it won't happen. Vvd will be good but we need more than that. Him, Austin and a creative midfielder, £35m spent and I'd be happy. But even with endless sales and mega TV money and European football we still won't do it.

 

Agree with you, that we need to spend in the areas you suggest, but also that it won't happen.

 

Go on Les, prove us wrong.

[Andy_Porter]

I'd like to know what has happened to him behind the scenes. He was at that kind of level not too far back but he's taken on a lot of the Davis characteristics in his 'offensive' game, but lacks Davis's chase-back tenacity in his defensive game.

 

I don't know whether it's a coaching thing or a confidence thing, but the result is really disappointing.

 

He needs to take a few more chances, he's playing within himself. At the same age Schneiderlin was bossing games for us admittedly at a lower level.

 

If he can develop into a proper attacking midfielder he could be gold as his set pieces are brilliant, he's just not really effecting games atm.