andoru Posted 23 August, 2015 Share Posted 23 August, 2015 I'm just picking up on a comment I read elsewhere in relation to Wanyama. One aspect of the 'Southampton Way' often emphasized is that the club puts as much value of a player's character when they scout him as they do on ability. Simply put, the club expects a certain attitude. Then within the academy the try to foster qualities such as loyalty, honesty, integrity, professionalism, solid work ethic, etc. Basically the club wants to produce a bunch of nice, polite middle-class lads who say their prayers, eat their vegetables and call their parents regularly. Yet, as was commented elsewhere, it seems like these days we produce more 'defectors' than anything else. I think most (all?) of our recent sales have moved at the first opportunity. Certainly it's what they say themselves ("As soon as I heard Liverpool/Man Utd/Arsenal were interested I told my agent to get it done."). Who was the last player we wanted to keep to turn down a move and say they are genuinely happy at Saints?* I can't think of any stars who have resisted. Makes you wonder how effective that character-building actually is. *Mane telling that kid the other day doesn't count yet. The transfer window is still open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrensup Posted 23 August, 2015 Share Posted 23 August, 2015 Modern society ini, everyone what's it now so naturally they'll take theorist ofter that comes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrian lord Posted 23 August, 2015 Share Posted 23 August, 2015 Not sure what Wren's on about above, but the boffins behind the fabled Black Box should look at performing Stereotactic Prefrontal Lobotomies on all Academicians at 12, making them devoid of ambition and totally subservient to Les. Getting adult transfers to consent to the procedure might be a challenge though, but worth a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 23 August, 2015 Share Posted 23 August, 2015 (edited) I'm just picking up on a comment I read elsewhere in relation to Wanyama. One aspect of the 'Southampton Way' often emphasized is that the club puts as much value of a player's character when they scout him as they do on ability. Simply put, the club expects a certain attitude. Then within the academy the try to foster qualities such as loyalty, honesty, integrity, professionalism, solid work ethic, etc. Basically the club wants to produce a bunch of nice, polite middle-class lads who say their prayers, eat their vegetables and call their parents regularly. Yet, as was commented elsewhere, it seems like these days we produce more 'defectors' than anything else. I think most (all?) of our recent sales have moved at the first opportunity. Certainly it's what they say themselves ("As soon as I heard Liverpool/Man Utd/Arsenal were interested I told my agent to get it done."). Who was the last player we wanted to keep to turn down a move and say they are genuinely happy at Saints?* I can't think of any stars who have resisted. Makes you wonder how effective that character-building actually is. *Mane telling that kid the other day doesn't count yet. The transfer window is still open. You made some valid points, BUT those " Academy characteristics " you quoted don't apply to some of those who have departed. Only Shaw and Chambers of the latest bunch had gone through the Academy. Shaw was outstanding and the fee showed that. Lallana had been at the club more than 12 years and deserved the opportunity of better, and sadly (like others) reacted to " Pochettino's desertion" . Walcott, Bale and Oxlade-Chamberlain were all outstanding - even though we were in a lower division, and everyone understood it was only a matter of time until they left. In time, there maybe more who leave?...but the majority won't make the Prem. grade may become good role models for clubs at another level. Not so bad, eh? as for those who left.....they suffered from " the footballers disease" - namely AMBITION. Widely lauded in every other profession, it's considered a curse in football. Edited 23 August, 2015 by david in sweden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrensup Posted 23 August, 2015 Share Posted 23 August, 2015 Auto correct and too Cba to go in and edit, people can guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 23 August, 2015 Share Posted 23 August, 2015 I don't think it is an issue just for Southampton. We just happen to have had players that top 4 clubs fancied. Anyone below the top 4 becomes pray if they have quality players that bigger clubs want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 23 August, 2015 Share Posted 23 August, 2015 Say what you like about Cortese but I think only one good player left under his reign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diabolus Ex Machina Posted 23 August, 2015 Share Posted 23 August, 2015 I don't think it is an issue just for Southampton. We just happen to have had players that top 4 clubs fancied. Anyone below the top 4 becomes pray if they have quality players that bigger clubs want. Pretty much this. I'd be more worried if it was teams below us or with similar levels of finances going after our players but it's not and breaking in to that top 6 level is nigh on impossible. Wanyama himself is an interesting case though. I remember when we were first linked with him the deal took a while to go through as the rumours were that they were waiting to see if a bigger team was going to come in for him (I specifically remember hearing Arsenal mentioned). In the end we were his best option and so he joined us. I always expected him to move on eventually as he always seemed to have his sights set high (he did play in the Champs League previously with Celtic remember). Still, he's not handed in a transfer request or anything and if it's true that it was Spurs who leaked the news of his discontent then I don't think he's in a particular rush to go. I expect that's why he was included in the last press conference for instance to show he will be hanging around. To be honest all looks like more of a Clyne situation than anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diabolus Ex Machina Posted 23 August, 2015 Share Posted 23 August, 2015 Say what you like about Cortese but I think only one good player left under his reign. Cortese always seemed to have big plans for the club in regards to Champs League etc... and I think he was able to filter that aspiration down through the rest of the club and squad. The problem was the only way you can get that is by injecting a lot of money into the squad. I'm sure that is what Cortese was planning on doing (and who knows it may have worked) but at the end of the day it wasn't his money. Once he was told the funds weren't going to be available reality hit and so we are where we are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daft Kerplunk Posted 23 August, 2015 Share Posted 23 August, 2015 I do believe a key character in players wanting to leave is Lallana more than any other. Once he had decided to leave, he was the first of the academy heart to decide saints didn't match his ambition, or that his agent had, or 'as I heard' his Dad had. Rumours were there that he was then actively encouraging other players to join him in leaving, and from there, a problem started. It's possibly something that will need another season and new leaders to come to fore to move on from those days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 23 August, 2015 Share Posted 23 August, 2015 I don't think it is an issue just for Southampton. We just happen to have had players that top 4 clubs fancied. Anyone below the top 4 becomes pray if they have quality players that bigger clubs want. Agreed, it is hard for players to resist the power of prayer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dellman Posted 23 August, 2015 Share Posted 23 August, 2015 Say what you like about Cortese but I think only one good player left under his reign. iF CORTESE WERE STILL HERE WE WOULD BE IN THE TOP FOUR AND STILL HAVE OUR LOST STARS---THEY BELIEVED IN HIM EVEN IF SOME FANS DIDN'T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadhall Saint Posted 23 August, 2015 Share Posted 23 August, 2015 Say what you like about Cortese but I think only one good player left under his reign. Totally different scenario now tho - I doubt very much that having NC around now would have made the slightest difference in a player staying or not. NC did not have to deal with likes of manure knocking on the door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 23 August, 2015 Share Posted 23 August, 2015 I do believe a key character in players wanting to leave is Lallana more than any other. Once he had decided to leave, he was the first of the academy heart to decide saints didn't match his ambition, or that his agent had, or 'as I heard' his Dad had. Rumours were there that he was then actively encouraging other players to join him in leaving, and from there, a problem started. It's possibly something that will need another season and new leaders to come to fore to move on from those days. It is shame because you can't buy team spirit but in Les we trust. Stagger on, rejoicing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doughnutman Posted 23 August, 2015 Share Posted 23 August, 2015 At the end of the day it comes down to ambition, we can't expect to buy players from other clubs by selling our ambitious plans to them and then not expect them to not in turn use their ambitions when a bigger club comes knocking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanRG Posted 23 August, 2015 Share Posted 23 August, 2015 Having good character doesn't mean never wanting to leave Southampton. They're allowed to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nta786 Posted 23 August, 2015 Share Posted 23 August, 2015 Say what you like about Cortese but I think only one good player left under his reign. We finished 14th in our first season under Cortese ffs. Our players were'nt sought after... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killers Knee Posted 24 August, 2015 Share Posted 24 August, 2015 I'm just picking up on a comment I read elsewhere in relation to Wanyama. One aspect of the 'Southampton Way' often emphasized is that the club puts as much value of a player's character when they scout him as they do on ability. Simply put, the club expects a certain attitude. Then within the academy the try to foster qualities such as loyalty, honesty, integrity, professionalism, solid work ethic, etc. Basically the club wants to produce a bunch of nice, polite middle-class lads who say their prayers, eat their vegetables and call their parents regularly. Yet, as was commented elsewhere, it seems like these days we produce more 'defectors' than anything else. I think most (all?) of our recent sales have moved at the first opportunity. Certainly it's what they say themselves ("As soon as I heard Liverpool/Man Utd/Arsenal were interested I told my agent to get it done."). Who was the last player we wanted to keep to turn down a move and say they are genuinely happy at Saints?* I can't think of any stars who have resisted. Makes you wonder how effective that character-building actually is. *Mane telling that kid the other day doesn't count yet. The transfer window is still open. Not sure if you got the memo, but the academy celebrate the pathway to the big clubs by putting up the pictures of the successful ones. Its the model. It is also key to our business plan that we sell our better players each year. This is described in a little more detail in the Secret Footballers book. Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 24 August, 2015 Share Posted 24 August, 2015 (edited) I'm just picking up on a comment I read elsewhere in relation to Wanyama. One aspect of the 'Southampton Way' often emphasized is that the club puts as much value of a player's character when they scout him as they do on ability. Simply put, the club expects a certain attitude. Then within the academy the try to foster qualities such as loyalty, honesty, integrity, professionalism, solid work ethic, etc. Basically the club wants to produce a bunch of nice, polite middle-class lads who say their prayers, eat their vegetables and call their parents regularly. Yet, as was commented elsewhere, it seems like these days we produce more 'defectors' than anything else. I think most (all?) of our recent sales have moved at the first opportunity. Certainly it's what they say themselves ("As soon as I heard Liverpool/Man Utd/Arsenal were interested I told my agent to get it done."). Who was the last player we wanted to keep to turn down a move and say they are genuinely happy at Saints?* I can't think of any stars who have resisted. Makes you wonder how effective that character-building actually is. *Mane telling that kid the other day doesn't count yet. The transfer window is still open. Why is anyone expecting players not to want to leave and get paid loads more money for doing the same thing somewhere else? The last player to turn down a move out of "loyalty" was Kelvin Davis to West Ham when we suddenly weren't being wound up. That one was probably more down to knowing he'd get a pay rise staying put and not have the hassle of moving house, plus whatever sell job Markus and Cortese did on taking over. Edited 24 August, 2015 by The9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 24 August, 2015 Share Posted 24 August, 2015 Say what you like about Cortese but I think only one good player left under his reign. People have to want to buy them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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