S-Clarke Posted 17 August, 2015 Share Posted 17 August, 2015 Sometimes these illnesses can be deceptive, especially if it's a virus. You might feel ok but the muscles aren't up to full effectiveness and your brain is not as sharp. Was he also affected for the Newcastle game? He wasn't quite on the ball in that one either. Not sure, but most viruses can go on for 10 days or so, so possibly. One of the main issues with him on Saturday was seemingly his lack of strength, he just seemed to be walking through treacle when trying to turn. A lot of people are saying he's not good enough, but in my opinion he was hung out to dry with the lack of cover in the first half, and then if he was ill as well....feel sorry for him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 17 August, 2015 Share Posted 17 August, 2015 Seems a bit iffy to me, surely if they can't sell out their allocation they should be given back to home fans not passed on to a team with tenuous links at best! That's weird. Well they do have the same owner, so why not? Brentford fans might be interested, it's cheap and relatively near and their owner will want to build links - PLUS they'll have a minimum sized area of the ground, there may as well be people in it as not - Saints fans are in blocks 44 and 45 already. so they've only got 1/3 of the usual away allocation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Appy Posted 17 August, 2015 Share Posted 17 August, 2015 Do we really want to progress to the group stage ? We look to have our hands full sorting out our Premier League effort. 6 group matches will be one helluva distraction and drain of energy... Said like a person who never goes to games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrfahaji Posted 17 August, 2015 Share Posted 17 August, 2015 I can't see us not starting with Wanyama and Romeu given the vast improvement in the second half on the weekend - if we had a centre back who wasn't Yoshida and had started the game at half time we'd have probably been ok. We don't need to worry about tiredness yet but I can see some humpings in our future if/when we play top 6 sides after group stage matches. somewhat disappointed with the people who haven't yet worked out the problem isn't Cedric (or even Targett), but the big gaps in front of them where we're narrow in the middle and the wide attacking midfielders aren't defending deep enough nor the narrow midfielders wide enough. This. There's a reason we have a "Morgan sized hole", because we have essentially replaced him with another forward! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diabolus Ex Machina Posted 17 August, 2015 Share Posted 17 August, 2015 This. There's a reason we have a "Morgan sized hole", because we have essentially replaced him with another forward! Yup, playing Davis in Morgans position was never a great idea as he is in no way a replacement there. Need to give either Claise and/or Romeu a proper run of games to see how they hold up. The fact we are still waiting on Tobys replacement and have Bertrand out is not helping. Once we have our actual first team out on the pitch things should hopefully look a bit rosier. As for this match, do think Targett could probably do with a rest. Want a strong team out though as you should never take any team for granted and will want a good lead before the away leg. Should take some encouragement from how we played in the last round though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
positivepete Posted 17 August, 2015 Share Posted 17 August, 2015 I'd rather play Yoshida at left back than that useless teenager Targett who bottles challenges. It's a case of Yoshida being less bad with Fonte & Caulker in the middle. Start Romeu and I think we could grind out a 2-0 win. That is unfair on Targett. He was booked early on in the game for the foul that stopped Lukaku scoring, so he ran a high risk of being sent off for any further mistimed challenges. Learning how to deal with that is done by getting experience. We had lost the game by half time so full marks to the management for keeping him on and giving some of that experience; much better than pulling him off at half time. He will be better player for that experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 17 August, 2015 Share Posted 17 August, 2015 That is unfair on Targett. He was booked early on in the game for the foul that stopped Lukaku scoring, so he ran a high risk of being sent off for any further mistimed challenges. Learning how to deal with that is done by getting experience. We had lost the game by half time so full marks to the management for keeping him on and giving some of that experience; much better than pulling him off at half time. He will be better player for that experience. Agree that the Targett-bashing has been unfair, he's been in a difficult situation, left exposed by the midfield and (apparently) playing despite illness. I will say that the main reason we didn't take him off was because we didn't have a defensive replacement on the bench though. You can say what you like about Martina only having been with the club 2 days and being alongside Stephens in Salzburg, but he was SO bad at left back I'm fairly sure he won't be risked there again, even though he's doing ok at right back when given a run. Had Caulker been fit I suspect he'd have come into the middle with Yoshida going left. Also not ideal, but again, a side-effect of our desire for sustainability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 17 August, 2015 Share Posted 17 August, 2015 Well it might be worth waiting just a few more games before drawing any conclusions on quality. Toby left a hole for sure but with a choice between Cedric and Martina at right back I dont think we will miss Clyne. I was very impressed with Romeu on Saturday and with Clasie in the wings I am optimistic that we can perform at the same level as last season. Another centre back will help with that confidence of course. Playing two games each week with the squad we have should not really be a problem for professional footballers. It's not like they are sitting around doing nothing with one game per week - they still have to train hard. It's not really the matches, it's the lack of recovery time between matches so you're starting the next game still a little creaky from the previous one, and also the impact that midweek travel has on the team's ability to prepare not just in watching video but also repetition on the pitch, for upcoming opponents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 17 August, 2015 Share Posted 17 August, 2015 Yup, playing Davis in Morgans position was never a great idea as he is in no way a replacement there. . Davis didn't play in Morgan's position though, we hardly used a DM pairing in the first half, I was watching it very closely and it was basically Wanyama with Davis in front of him and Mane well up the field. It was nearer a 4-1-4-1 (with Tadic/Long/Davis as the 3 across the middle and Mane the support striker) but there was never a 2 DM shield - that improved hugely when Romeu came in and just sat alongside Wanyama - but of course then we're looking at a more sound defensive line up but with half as long to score a goal as we usually have and the opposition 2 up with 10 behind the ball, which is much more difficult to score than just doing that for the full 90. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 17 August, 2015 Share Posted 17 August, 2015 That is unfair on Targett. He was booked early on in the game for the foul that stopped Lukaku scoring, so he ran a high risk of being sent off for any further mistimed challenges. Learning how to deal with that is done by getting experience. We had lost the game by half time so full marks to the management for keeping him on and giving some of that experience; much better than pulling him off at half time. He will be better player for that experience. I have been critical of Targett and so I watched that booking incident carefully after the game. I feel that Targett should have been a couple of yards further to his right once it was clear that Lukaku was going to break clear down the wing. In fairness he was unlucky to get booked and give away a foul because he did get a slight touch on the ball before bringing Lukaku down. On the other hand it was very close to being a penalty. You're right, he needs more experience but whilst he's getting it we are dropping points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diabolus Ex Machina Posted 17 August, 2015 Share Posted 17 August, 2015 Davis didn't play in Morgan's position though, we hardly used a DM pairing in the first half, I was watching it very closely and it was basically Wanyama with Davis in front of him and Mane well up the field. It was nearer a 4-1-4-1 (with Tadic/Long/Davis as the 3 across the middle and Mane the support striker) but there was never a 2 DM shield - that improved hugely when Romeu came in and just sat alongside Wanyama - but of course then we're looking at a more sound defensive line up but with half as long to score a goal as we usually have and the opposition 2 up with 10 behind the ball, which is much more difficult to score than just doing that for the full 90. Aahh fair enough. Still thought we were trying to play 4-1-3-2 from the start. Does highlight how important having that 2 man shield in front of our defenders has been the last couple of seasons though. Also shows just how ineffectual Tadic, Long and Davis were in getting hold of the midfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 17 August, 2015 Share Posted 17 August, 2015 (edited) Aahh fair enough. Still thought we were trying to play 4-1-3-2 from the start. Does highlight how important having that 2 man shield in front of our defenders has been the last couple of seasons though. Also shows just how ineffectual Tadic, Long and Davis were in getting hold of the midfield. The 1 was the important bit, whether it was 4-1-3-2 or 4-1-4-1. Everything happened behind our bank of midfielders in the holes in front of the back 4 or where Wanyama wasn't. Edited 17 August, 2015 by The9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diabolus Ex Machina Posted 17 August, 2015 Share Posted 17 August, 2015 The 1 was the important bit, whether it was 4-1-3-2 or 4-1-4-1. Meant 4-2-3-1 hence talking about the 2 man shield. My mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
positivepete Posted 17 August, 2015 Share Posted 17 August, 2015 I have been critical of Targett and so I watched that booking incident carefully after the game. I feel that Targett should have been a couple of yards further to his right once it was clear that Lukaku was going to break clear down the wing. In fairness he was unlucky to get booked and give away a foul because he did get a slight touch on the ball before bringing Lukaku down. On the other hand it was very close to being a penalty. You're right, he needs more experience but whilst he's getting it we are dropping points. Interesting points for discussion, perhaps we can continue in the hotel bar in Denmark! See you there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 17 August, 2015 Share Posted 17 August, 2015 Interesting points for discussion, perhaps we can continue in the hotel bar in Denmark! See you there. Yes please I might be in one of several bars, not that I'm supposed to drink much these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 17 August, 2015 Share Posted 17 August, 2015 Meant 4-2-3-1 hence talking about the 2 man shield. My mistake. Ah, I get you now. If we were meant to be playing the 2 DMs, one of them wasn't there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalek2003 Posted 17 August, 2015 Share Posted 17 August, 2015 Do we really want to progress to the group stage ? We look to have our hands full sorting out our Premier League effort. 6 group matches will be one helluva distraction and drain of energy... Well, I said this the day we qualified for the Europa League. If we are not careful, this bad start in the league could end up in a relegation fight. I would rather we exit Europe asap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 17 August, 2015 Share Posted 17 August, 2015 Well, I said this the day we qualified for the Europa League. If we are not careful, this bad start in the league could end up in a relegation fight. I would rather we exit Europe asap. 9.3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 17 August, 2015 Share Posted 17 August, 2015 Utterly irrelevant. Could have had Maldini in his prime at left back, wouldn't have changed the fact his 10 teammates put in a pathetic performance. Of course it's relevant, especially on this specific incident. If he had been in the right position he could have put in a better tackle. Or are you blaming everybody else except him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_Tony Posted 17 August, 2015 Share Posted 17 August, 2015 Think this could be a tricky tie. I see the bookies have them at 9/1 to win on thursday, which indicates they are League One quality at best. Think this could be a stern test for us; we're certainly not guaranteed to win over the two legs. Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simo Posted 17 August, 2015 Share Posted 17 August, 2015 3-1 saints Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raging Bull Posted 17 August, 2015 Share Posted 17 August, 2015 Well, I said this the day we qualified for the Europa League. If we are not careful, this bad start in the league could end up in a relegation fight. I would rather we exit Europe asap. So you're a UKIP type of fan. Explains a lot really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simo Posted 17 August, 2015 Share Posted 17 August, 2015 So you're a UKIP type of fan. Explains a lot really. Probably wants to concentrate on qualifying for the Europa league ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_ed Posted 17 August, 2015 Share Posted 17 August, 2015 We'll win this leg 2-1, and lose the second leg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeSixty Posted 17 August, 2015 Share Posted 17 August, 2015 ---------------Stek------------- Cedric---Fonte--Maya--Targett ----------Romeu--Vic----------- ---------------Davis------------ Mane-----------------------JRod ---------------Pelle-------------- Please no more 4 man attack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsbridge Saint Posted 17 August, 2015 Share Posted 17 August, 2015 After Saturday not so confident. I can see us conceding the first from our own corner, then struggling to create an opening for the equaliser, finally bagging one in the 89th minute. So 1-1. Then 0-0 in Denmark. Steaua all over again. On the other hand, if we pull our fingers out...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazza82 Posted 17 August, 2015 Share Posted 17 August, 2015 ===Stek Cedric=Fonte=Caulker=Martina ==Wanyama==Romeu ======Tadic===== Man==== Pelle=====JRod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AussieDog Posted 17 August, 2015 Share Posted 17 August, 2015 Well, I said this the day we qualified for the Europa League. If we are not careful, this bad start in the league could end up in a relegation fight. I would rather we exit Europe asap. I'd settle for a relegation fight and a Europa Cup Final (as long as we win both ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brave Sir Robin Posted 18 August, 2015 Share Posted 18 August, 2015 Do we really want to progress to the group stage ? We look to have our hands full sorting out our Premier League effort. 6 group matches will be one helluva distraction and drain of energy... Hmmm. Let me see... 6 potential wins to ramp up the winning mentality and confidence vs 6 extra days training in the rain, reflecting on where it might have gone wrong... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 18 August, 2015 Share Posted 18 August, 2015 (edited) Hmmm. Let me see... 6 potential wins to ramp up the winning mentality and confidence vs 6 extra days training in the rain, reflecting on where it might have gone wrong... I know what you are trying to say, but its more disruptive to the team than that. They have to travel, stay in hotels, etc. Injury risk is higher from live games than training too. I think its a reasonable argument to say that we need to get our EPL house in order as top priority; even if we dont come out on top next week in Denmark, we've had our fun in the sun, havent we ? Edited 18 August, 2015 by alpine_saint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErwinK1961 Posted 18 August, 2015 Share Posted 18 August, 2015 ===Stek Cedric=Fonte=Caulker=Martina ==Wanyama==Romeu ======Tadic===== Man==== Pelle=====JRod If we go with this, then we've learnt no lessons from the weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc_saint Posted 18 August, 2015 Share Posted 18 August, 2015 I know what you are trying to say, but its more disruptive to the team than that. They have to travel, stay in hotels, etc. Injury risk is higher from live games than injury too. I think its a reasonable argument to say that we need to get our EPL house in order as top priority; even if we dont come out on top next week in Denmark, we've had our fun in the sun, havent we ? No, we need lots more fun in the sun! For a club our size whats the point of trying to do well if when we get to Europe we don't want to play in it? Enjoy it, embrace it! Yes it may impact on our premier league form but we wont get relegated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ibizasaint Posted 18 August, 2015 Share Posted 18 August, 2015 I know what you are trying to say, but its more disruptive to the team than that. They have to travel, stay in hotels, etc. Injury risk is higher from live games than injury too. I think its a reasonable argument to say that we need to get our EPL house in order as top priority; even if we dont come out on top next week in Denmark, we've had our fun in the sun, havent we ? I see what you mean about the EPL but we spent the whole of last season trying to get into Europe, now we are there I think we owe it to ourselves to make a proper fist of it. If we can get through to the group stages there are some mouthwatering matches that could await us. In trying to attract good, new players.. the prospect of the UEFA cup is probably a good selling point (on top of the $ obviously). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 18 August, 2015 Share Posted 18 August, 2015 I see what you mean about the EPL but we spent the whole of last season trying to get into Europe, now we are there I think we owe it to ourselves to make a proper fist of it. If we can get through to the group stages there are some mouthwatering matches that could await us. In trying to attract good, new players.. the prospect of the UEFA cup is probably a good selling point (on top of the $ obviously). I see the sense in this too, but can we really make a proper fist of it to reach those KO matches, and not take our eye off our EPL position ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katalinic Posted 18 August, 2015 Share Posted 18 August, 2015 I know what you are trying to say, but its more disruptive to the team than that. They have to travel, stay in hotels, etc. Injury risk is higher from live games than training too. I think its a reasonable argument to say that we need to get our EPL house in order as top priority; even if we dont come out on top next week in Denmark, we've had our fun in the sun, havent we ? So let me get this straight, you spend most of last season wailing and gnashing your teeth that we have blown European qualification and now we are in it you want to be out of it? Presumably then you won't care where we finish this season as we don't want to get into Europe right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc_saint Posted 18 August, 2015 Share Posted 18 August, 2015 So let me get this straight, you spend most of last season wailing and gnashing your teeth that we have blown European qualification and now we are in it you want to be out of it? Presumably then you won't care where we finish this season as we don't want to get into Europe right? Sounds like 8th is the perfect position to finish. Anything higher is a disappointment! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxstone Posted 18 August, 2015 Share Posted 18 August, 2015 I see what you mean about the EPL but we spent the whole of last season trying to get into Europe, now we are there I think we owe it to ourselves to make a proper fist of it. If we can get through to the group stages there are some mouthwatering matches that could await us. In trying to attract good, new players.. the prospect of the UEFA cup is probably a good selling point (on top of the $ obviously). Could'nt agree more.... If Boro and Fulham can get to a final (in the recent past), then why the hell can't we! A Europa cup win would give us terrific kudos in world football, guarantee us a place in the very rich Champions league and give us a hell of a fun season along theway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 18 August, 2015 Share Posted 18 August, 2015 Could'nt agree more.... If Boro and Fulham can get to a final (in the recent past), then why the hell can't we! A Europa cup win would give us terrific kudos in world football, guarantee us a place in the very rich Champions league and give us a hell of a fun season along theway... doesnt it give the winner a place in the qualifying rounds? I hope we make a good fist of it. obviously, our league form will suffer but we will be fine. I just cannot see how we can win it with some of the teams already in it and likely to be too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ibizasaint Posted 18 August, 2015 Share Posted 18 August, 2015 I think having the chance to play against the European greats means you have won in a way anyway. I never gave a toss about the skates winning the FA Cup but i remember being gutted when they played AC Milan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 18 August, 2015 Share Posted 18 August, 2015 I think having the chance to play against the European greats means you have won in a way anyway. I never gave a toss about the skates winning the FA Cup but i remember being gutted when they played AC Milan. but the FA Cup is a major trophy. Id rather win the cup than draw at home to dortmund, personally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 18 August, 2015 Share Posted 18 August, 2015 doesnt it give the winner a place in the qualifying rounds? I hope we make a good fist of it. obviously, our league form will suffer but we will be fine. I just cannot see how we can win it with some of the teams already in it and likely to be too Winners of the EL go straight into the CL Group stage. I think as EL winners you are bumped up to 2nd seed's as well, but may be wrong on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 18 August, 2015 Share Posted 18 August, 2015 Winners of the EL go straight into the CL Group stage. I think as EL winners you are bumped up to 2nd seed's as well, but may be wrong on that. sevilla won it last year, right? how did it go for them in the CL..or did they qualify via the league anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc_saint Posted 18 August, 2015 Share Posted 18 August, 2015 Winners of the EL go straight into the CL Group stage. I think as EL winners you are bumped up to 2nd seed's as well, but may be wrong on that. The Europa League champion may be promoted into the group stage if the Champions League champion qualifies for the group stage through their domestic competition. If the Champions League champion comes from an association ranked thirteenth or lower, the Europa League champion will enter the play-off round for champions instead. England as an association are ranked 2nd behind Spain so IF we were to win the Europa we'd go straight into the group stages on the Champions League (Can't believe I just typed that!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 18 August, 2015 Share Posted 18 August, 2015 Just seen, Sevilla finished 5th but are in the group stages of the CL makes it even more appealling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 18 August, 2015 Share Posted 18 August, 2015 So let me get this straight, you spend most of last season wailing and gnashing your teeth that we have blown European qualification and now we are in it you want to be out of it? Not sure I "want to be out of it", but its a valid argument. I dont recall any wailing and gnashing of teeth about blowing Euro qualification last season. I may have expressed disappointment and frustration at dropping from 2nd to 7th a couple of times though. And even if I did, I didnt have a crystal ball to indicate that we would lose key players again this summer (although Morgan was a safe bet), that we would replace with questionable quality, or that we would start this season so badly. EPL has always to be first priority. Sorry, its the economics of the situation. Not my doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lallana's Left Peg Posted 18 August, 2015 Share Posted 18 August, 2015 Last season was brilliant, a massive overachievement in the circumstances and we finished 7th and had to rely on another team above us winning the FA Cup so we could qualify for Europe. I'd rather have some fun in the Europa League and finish 10th - 12th than have another run at finishing top half with no Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalek2003 Posted 18 August, 2015 Share Posted 18 August, 2015 Not sure I "want to be out of it", but its a valid argument. I dont recall any wailing and gnashing of teeth about blowing Euro qualification last season. I may have expressed disappointment and frustration at dropping from 2nd to 7th a couple of times though. And even if I did, I didnt have a crystal ball to indicate that we would lose key players again this summer (although Morgan was a safe bet), that we would replace with questionable quality, or that we would start this season so badly. EPL has always to be first priority. Sorry, its the economics of the situation. Not my doing. I would go further and say that staying in the Premier league should take priority over all competitions, to the extent we play the reserve team in all competitions except the EPL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 18 August, 2015 Share Posted 18 August, 2015 I would go further and say that staying in the Premier league should take priority over all competitions, to the extent we play the reserve team in all competitions except the EPL I agree with the first part but not with the second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 18 August, 2015 Share Posted 18 August, 2015 I would go further and say that staying in the Premier league should take priority over all competitions, to the extent we play the reserve team in all competitions except the EPL Hmm, bit extreme Dalek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 18 August, 2015 Share Posted 18 August, 2015 I would go further and say that staying in the Premier league should take priority over all competitions, to the extent we play the reserve team in all competitions except the EPL The FA Cup has been devalued enough without everybody playing their reserve teams in it. Clubs should be looking to win every competition they enter, otherwise what is the point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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