Lawrie Mac interview

[Tamesaint]

Legends are normally based on folly and to follow Lawrie McMenemy, well I prefer Rupert Lowe's chances of pulling the sword from the stone, than a dubious legend of an era unrecognisable in football terms from todays.

 

Ah well matey .. each to their own.

 

Out of interest who did you support in the 1976 cup Final? Who did you support in the early '80's when Lawrie's team played some great football, when Saints finished second in the top tier and regularly finished in the top 6 ??

 

Or were you too busy playing hockey in those days to bother with football??

[ottery st mary]

GReat times, but Lawrie could not amass that type of team here nowdays. He was a man of his time but times hav emoved on.

Can't blame him for rehashing the glory days as we have not had many of those at this club, but he did not cover himslef in glort when he came back and seems to forget that we almost went down last year whilst he was here to give us his enormous experience.

I bet Alex Ferguson and Big Phil arehaving a laugh. How many roadsweepers do they have playing for them? How many did Brazil have in 1970?

I some of Lawries better squads I don't remember too may roadsweepers either.

Yes it was petty of Lowe to take his picture down, but it is also petty to hearp on about it (or have your wife harp on about it) at the AGM! His ego is a big as Lowe's if not bigger.

Right now the troubles of the club are bigger than a 30+ year old photograph.

If it had been a picture of the team with the trphy I would join in, but it was McMenemy. Tells you all you need to know. McMemeny talks about divisiness but he is being divisive. Whaetver you think of Lowe, he did preside over our more successful periods in the last decade and things were not all bad.

McMenemy's record since leaving us sucks. He managed us well but fecked up at Sunderland big time. He knows about running a team but his attempts with others to run a football club were shabby.

 

As one of Loweys boys, once again you spout absolute tripe as usual.

Like a lot of the reasoning given by the good old sorts in the CPS, who know not a lot of the real world. You don't watch football or support the Saints but a leader who blindly leads us down a blind alley to oblivion.

 

Sorry Matey, you and your little band are so out of touch with this disaster that Rupert has orchestrated.

 

Happy New Year

[DT]

A great read. What LM said makes perfect sense.

 

Do we have any violinist's in our squad now?

 

Not sure about violinists but I'm pretty sure Lowe is on the fiddle.

Thank you and goodnight.

[um pahars]

a dubious legend of an era unrecognisable in football terms from todays.

 

ZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

Euro 96 me up.

 

I gave SadOldGit a bit of a roasting earlier, but sadly you've even surpassed his dopey posts.

 

Just like Scooby, you're actually turning in to one of the best adverts for removing Lowe as in you we saw all of Lowe's worst traits.

[Englesaint]

Legends are normally based on folly and to follow Lawrie McMenemy, well I prefer Rupert Lowe's chances of pulling the sword from the stone, than a dubious legend of an era unrecognisable in football terms from todays.

 

Oh dear SB.

 

LM really does get under the skin of some of you guys doesn't he? Whilst, as S1977 suggests, there might well be a bit of an ego associated with dear old Lawrie, there is also here a period of success (75-84 ish) unrivalled in our history. Some fantastic teams and players and a major trophy win.

 

Guess that's what hurts some of you the most . . . that we have a heritage and that LM actually achieved something outstanding.. . . . unlike a certain Mr L.

 

As to the unrecongnisable era . . . utterly irrelevant . . . every age is different from the past but it does not diminish the achivement. Perhaps we should stop celebrating 1966 as it's all too long ago and players are quicker now?

[Sundance Beast]

 

LM really does get under the skin of some of you guys doesn't he? Whilst, as S1977 suggests, there might well be a bit of an ego associated with dear old Lawrie, there is also here a period of success (75-84 ish) unrivalled in our history. Some fantastic teams and players and a major trophy win.

 

Guess that's what hurts some of you the most . . . that we have a heritage and that LM actually achieved something outstanding.. . . . unlike a certain Mr L.

 

As to the unrecongnisable era . . . utterly irrelevant . . . every age is different from the past but it does not diminish the achivement. Perhaps we should stop celebrating 1966 as it's all too long ago and players are quicker now?

 

Engel, thanks for the response and I hope you don't mind me taking the time to reply as you raise some interesting points some of which I agree and some that actually highlight the whole issue I have with McMenemy and those who are willing to overlook his obvious shortcomings. Funny how we all do that, human nature I guess unless the ardent anti-Lowes are all perfect.

 

Yes LM had unrivalled success than any other Saints manager and won a trophy. Whether that achievement was outstanding when you compare what Paisley, Revie and Clough were achieving is a matter for debate. I think the use of outstanding as marking the achievement out against our peers in Division 1 at that time is to use a poetic licence but in terms of the club's history then maybe you can argue it was the best period in our history and outstanding for a small club with a scruffy little ground.

 

However, whilst I recognise the achievement is not diminished just because it was over 30 years ago the world of football has changed beyond recognition and we are probably all the worse for it but as a club it is undoubtedly harder to survive in the current environment let alone win major trophies. As a result does the Strachan/Lowe era that culminated in the 2003 cup final appearance actually represent a far more signficant achievement than the success McMenemy bought to the club? Not least because we had some success and respectability on the pitch but we had a club and infrastructure to take forward into the next era. England International's at Southampton? For all Lawrie's great contribution as a manager we didn't develop at all as a club and now just have our history books as a result of his success.

 

McMenemy achieved success but was it outstanding even in his own era? No not really when it wasn't even that much of a shock for a division 2 club to win the FA Cup. Lowe has also achieved success and delivered something for us all that goes beyond an engraving on a piece of silverware.

 

1966 and all that, clearly a good club side would beat that England line up today but obviously we will never know so its consigned to history as an outstanding achievement in the history books. The sad thing is many players had to sell their medals to finance their retirement rather than work the media circus and bad mouth and insult the hand that gave them their good times.

 

Mcmenemy can talk about 76 and all that to his hearts content but his archaic views on the current situation are uttererly irrelevant as you say he is from another era and cannot diminish what has been acheived in the current era. Lawrie's career isn't exactly untarnished even at Saints and with a little more magnanimity he could have been this club's life long diplomat along the lines of Sir Bobby Charlton but in terms of having respect for your club and all those in it, past and present, then in my very humble opinion McMenemy isn't fit to even shine his shoes. Might make a good job of washing his dirty laundry though provided he can do it in public.

 

LM is a parasite and responsible for his lack of position and recognition at the club that IMO to a better man would have been a job for life and deservedly so, for his 'outstanding' achievement.

[rick1976.4.38]

you say we didnt develop as a club,lms fault or the boards?the boards i think,even kk left us as he said the ambition at saints wasnt matching his.we may have got to fa cup final under strachan,and what a day out but we didnt win it,we got into europe once,how many times under lm?lowe has ruined this club,id rather lm anyday

[Saint Billy]

Engel, thanks for the response and I hope you don't mind me taking the time to reply as you raise some interesting points some of which I agree and some that actually highlight the whole issue I have with McMenemy and those who are willing to overlook his obvious shortcomings. Funny how we all do that, human nature I guess unless the ardent anti-Lowes are all perfect.

 

Yes LM had unrivalled success than any other Saints manager and won a trophy. Whether that achievement was outstanding when you compare what Paisley, Revie and Clough were achieving is a matter for debate. I think the use of outstanding as marking the achievement out against our peers in Division 1 at that time is to use a poetic licence but in terms of the club's history then maybe you can argue it was the best period in our history and outstanding for a small club with a scruffy little ground.

 

However, whilst I recognise the achievement is not diminished just because it was over 30 years ago the world of football has changed beyond recognition and we are probably all the worse for it but as a club it is undoubtedly harder to survive in the current environment let alone win major trophies. As a result does the Strachan/Lowe era that culminated in the 2003 cup final appearance actually represent a far more signficant achievement than the success McMenemy bought to the club? Not least because we had some success and respectability on the pitch but we had a club and infrastructure to take forward into the next era. England International's at Southampton? For all Lawrie's great contribution as a manager we didn't develop at all as a club and now just have our history books as a result of his success.

 

McMenemy achieved success but was it outstanding even in his own era? No not really when it wasn't even that much of a shock for a division 2 club to win the FA Cup. Lowe has also achieved success and delivered something for us all that goes beyond an engraving on a piece of silverware.

 

1966 and all that, clearly a good club side would beat that England line up today but obviously we will never know so its consigned to history as an outstanding achievement in the history books. The sad thing is many players had to sell their medals to finance their retirement rather than work the media circus and bad mouth and insult the hand that gave them their good times.

 

Mcmenemy can talk about 76 and all that to his hearts content but his archaic views on the current situation are uttererly irrelevant as you say he is from another era and cannot diminish what has been acheived in the current era. Lawrie's career isn't exactly untarnished even at Saints and with a little more magnanimity he could have been this club's life long diplomat along the lines of Sir Bobby Charlton but in terms of having respect for your club and all those in it, past and present, then in my very humble opinion McMenemy isn't fit to even shine his shoes. Might make a good job of washing his dirty laundry though provided he can do it in public.

 

LM is a parasite and responsible for his lack of position and recognition at the club that IMO to a better man would have been a job for life and deservedly so, for his 'outstanding' achievement.

 

I hardly think that LM stating we need a couple of quality players in the side is an archaic view do you?.

 

Basically sundance, anyone who is anti lowe gets your back up. Perhaps you need to hear the words of le god on ssn today, I suppose you think his views are archaic as well.

 

Our best manager since LM is Strachan do you not agree, proven by your comments regarding the 2003 cup final. Shame that we did not push on from that, but of course, as we all know, Strachan left not long after for his hip operation........................................NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!

[theyin]

Sundance Beast and SotonJoe

 

You are utter co

 

You are obviously of a young age and have no memories of just what LM brought to our city. It is because of his achievements that the level of expectancy surrounding the club exists. Ted Bates was a legend but LM did most to propel our club to the forefront of peoples minds when talking about 'plucky family clubs' (well, not a term you hear much nowadays), we we're also known for playing great attractive football.

 

Much is made of 1976, but in 83/84 we actually stood at the top of Div1 for a fair stretch of the season. Not the few weeks that Ipswich, Hull etc have done in recent years, we were top dog!

 

I remember LM giving the speech at my exes graduation ceremony at Soton Uni in 93. I was ready to get behind the man on a revolutionary march, his inspirational speech was that good. Che Guevara has nothing on LM when it comes to motivation. If that comes from having an ego then so be it. I'd have him around the club no matter what - he's there because he cares FFS

 

I'm blabbing on now, sorry but this. Posts making a mockery of LM's achievements and reasons for continuing to be involved on this board really make my blood boil.

 

You're so feckin foolish

 

Jeez I'm jumping out of my seat here watching Channon and Ossie on the attack.

[um pahars]

in 83/84 we actually stood at the top of Div1 for a fair stretch of the season. Not the few weeks that Ipswich, Hull etc have done in recent years, we were top dog!

 

I think we held the top spot longer than anyone that season, before being overhauled by Liverpool.

 

A few months back, posts like these from Sundance would have irked me slightly and I would have felt the need to reply. Now I just read them laugh at the hypocrisy & rubbish being spouted, and reflect that in Sundance you start to see a big chunk of Lowe

 

And in reminding me (and others) of just how Lowe thinks and acts, SB does more to remind me of why Lowe should stand aside than almost anything else on this forum.

 

Keep on posting Sundance (and as before if the mods will let me, I'm still happy to pay is 5 quid).

[SaintRobbie]

Engel, thanks for the response and I hope you don't mind me taking the time to reply as you raise some interesting points some of which I agree and some that actually highlight the whole issue I have with McMenemy and those who are willing to overlook his obvious shortcomings. Funny how we all do that, human nature I guess unless the ardent anti-Lowes are all perfect.

 

Yes LM had unrivalled success than any other Saints manager and won a trophy. Whether that achievement was outstanding when you compare what Paisley, Revie and Clough were achieving is a matter for debate. I think the use of outstanding as marking the achievement out against our peers in Division 1 at that time is to use a poetic licence but in terms of the club's history then maybe you can argue it was the best period in our history and outstanding for a small club with a scruffy little ground.

 

However, whilst I recognise the achievement is not diminished just because it was over 30 years ago the world of football has changed beyond recognition and we are probably all the worse for it but as a club it is undoubtedly harder to survive in the current environment let alone win major trophies. As a result does the Strachan/Lowe era that culminated in the 2003 cup final appearance actually represent a far more signficant achievement than the success McMenemy bought to the club? Not least because we had some success and respectability on the pitch but we had a club and infrastructure to take forward into the next era. England International's at Southampton? For all Lawrie's great contribution as a manager we didn't develop at all as a club and now just have our history books as a result of his success.

 

McMenemy achieved success but was it outstanding even in his own era? No not really when it wasn't even that much of a shock for a division 2 club to win the FA Cup. Lowe has also achieved success and delivered something for us all that goes beyond an engraving on a piece of silverware.

 

1966 and all that, clearly a good club side would beat that England line up today but obviously we will never know so its consigned to history as an outstanding achievement in the history books. The sad thing is many players had to sell their medals to finance their retirement rather than work the media circus and bad mouth and insult the hand that gave them their good times.

 

Mcmenemy can talk about 76 and all that to his hearts content but his archaic views on the current situation are uttererly irrelevant as you say he is from another era and cannot diminish what has been acheived in the current era. Lawrie's career isn't exactly untarnished even at Saints and with a little more magnanimity he could have been this club's life long diplomat along the lines of Sir Bobby Charlton but in terms of having respect for your club and all those in it, past and present, then in my very humble opinion McMenemy isn't fit to even shine his shoes. Might make a good job of washing his dirty laundry though provided he can do it in public.

 

LM is a parasite and responsible for his lack of position and recognition at the club that IMO to a better man would have been a job for life and deservedly so, for his 'outstanding' achievement.

 

There are x2 people in Pompey who are laughing everytime we rise to the bait - their names are Scooby and Sundance.

 

There can be no other explanation for this utter rubbish.

 

I look forward to singing Lawrie's name today... along with MLT after his dig at Lowe and the other true 'parasites' yesterday. Look forward to Hampshire Constabulary coming in to investigate where all the money has gone under Lowe and Crouch's chairmanships.

[yorkie]

I think we held the top spot longer than anyone that season, before being overhauled by Liverpool.

 

A few months back, posts like these from Sundance would have irked me slightly and I would have felt the need to reply. Now I just read them laugh at the hypocrisy & rubbish being spouted, and reflect that in Sundance you start to see a big chunk of Lowe

 

And in reminding me (and others) of just how Lowe thinks and acts, SB does more to remind me of why Lowe should stand aside than almost anything else on this forum.

 

Keep on posting Sundance (and as before if the mods will let me, I'm still happy to pay is 5 quid).

 

I know we did because of the winter conditions and frozen pitches up and down the country none of the other "top" teams were playing - but we were playing virtually every week keeping us clear at the top.

[um pahars]

I know we did because of the winter conditions and frozen pitches up and down the country none of the other "top" teams were playing - but we were playing virtually every week keeping us clear at the top.

 

Just had a look in ITN and in that 83/84 when we came second by 3 points and we never topped the table at any point that season (it also reminded me of playing a weak team away at Everton just before the semi, losing at home to relegated Notts County - what might have been).

 

It was the 81/82 season when we topped the table from January through to March.

 

Problem is that there were so many successful periods around that time that they all seem to blur in to one!!!!!!! Something obviously lost on the "big hand" waving post Euro 96 fans :rolleyes:

[Crab Lungs]

It's good to see Lawrie isn't at all bitter about losing his £100,000 "salary"

[ottery st mary]

It's good to see Lawrie isn't at all bitter about losing his £100,000 "salary"

 

You will find a great deal of his good work for the club and the good people of Southampton was done for no pay.

 

Unlike some of you people in the lounges or top table with the king Hunting, Shooting and Fishing and ripping apart a football club.

 

Just heard the agency for Lowey is open again.

 

Happy New Year Crabbey

[Saint Billy]

It's good to see Lawrie isn't at all bitter about losing his £100,000 "salary"

 

I think he is more upset about the demise of our football club that he helped put on the map don't you!

[sadoldgit]

I don't normally criticise people's posts unless they are offensive, but that is complete rubbish. Sorry if that offends. LM's ego has every right to be slightly enlarged. He did orchestrate the finest Saints team in living memory, and if backed by a bit more financial clout would have gone on to make his Saints team even better. Frankly, the guy performed bloody miracles, on a relative shoestring budget. Remember, it's always a shoestring budget at SFC. LM had a little bit more to spend than previous managers, but just made the extra pounds work brilliantly.

 

What you're saying is like damning Ferguson for being good at his job at ManU.

 

If you had bothered to read what I said properly I gave due praise to LMs acheivements here as manager, although I am sure you understand that finances did not play such a huge part in football in those days and he was able to bring in the sort of player that we have not been able to afford in more recent times. I was talking about what LM brings to the party now, which is pure nostalgia.

[sadoldgit]

As one of Loweys boys, once again you spout absolute tripe as usual.

Like a lot of the reasoning given by the good old sorts in the CPS, who know not a lot of the real world. You don't watch football or support the Saints but a leader who blindly leads us down a blind alley to oblivion.

 

Sorry Matey, you and your little band are so out of touch with this disaster that Rupert has orchestrated.

 

Happy New Year

 

Unlike you matey I am not one of anyones boys and manage to follow my football club without having an agenda, something you seem unable to do.

 

"Blindly leads us down a blind alley"?? And I am talking tripe???

[sadoldgit]

ZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

Euro 96 me up.

 

I gave SadOldGit a bit of a roasting earlier, but sadly you've even surpassed his dopey posts.

 

Just like Scooby, you're actually turning in to one of the best adverts for removing Lowe as in you we saw all of Lowe's worst traits.

 

Damn, I must have missed that Steve. Shame, I am sure there were plenty of rolly eyed thingies there too.

[JohnnyFartPants]

I have been of the opinion that Lowe was the right man for the job of a bad bunch suitable, and part of me still thinks that way, but to be honest we need him out and soon. He is getting carried away with his own hype and the club is dying around him. All that said, he was good for us for the majority of his time here and who knows, he may prove us all wrong and still turn the ship around. I hope he does.

 

While here, I would also like to say that anyone who slags off LM's achievements because he wasn't born late enough to prove himself against today's players and teams is grasping at straws and comes across as a bit of a dinlo.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Would Keegan have signed for Lowe?

 

Has Lowe got the personality and man mangement skills to attract the very best?

 

Can Lowe sell his football vision to world class footballers, and be able to attract them to the club?

[Frank's cousin]

I just wonder what sort of opinion we would have of LM in these modern times had the impact of relegation been the same in the 70's as it is now? For all the posturing, bullshiete, public slaggings and disputes over everything from the board, squad and petty childish bickering from all sides, the reason we are in this crap is simply money.

 

And in these modern times, being used to sitting at the top table, and the massive financila impact of relegation fans less prepared to see this as part of the game - the loonger it goes on the worse the situation gets and and the more speak out against it - the same who were quiet when SMS was opened, or when getting freebies at Cardiff...

 

Its easy to criticise from the outside, but we saw saw feck all improvement when LMs pals were in the hot seat - why? - Simple, because foral the rubbish spouted, for all the ingnorant ramblings of 'hate' and 'runinig our club' - its just down to the lack of cash and WHOEVER is in charge will face the same nightmares, whoever is appointed manager, will have to work under the same restrictions - how will we replace kids with experienced players when their wage demands will be 3 top 4 times higher?

 

The club is not dying because of one or two individuals, nor do clubs die because mistakes are made in good faithm, or new things tried, or managers appointed that fans dont like (none of us where too hopeful or happy when WGS arrived) - what is killing our club is the simple lack of cash meaning we are stuck fielding kids who are not ready - BECAUSE THAT IS ALL WE CAN AFFORD - and when someone comes in with a plan to provide the CASH (not futher loans and debt) to fund this, great but its easy to talk - and thus the lack of success is trying our patience - because we are so used to relative success when we beat our neighbours regulary and also those we played again yesterday... sending their arrogant fans back to surrey in misery - Now we dont go which compounds the financial problems.

 

Yes there are also problems wit some of the fundementals on the pitch - lack of width, lack of penetration and inexperienced defence etc, things JP needs to sort of be shuipped out - but would a new maanger of calibre we could attract given the money be able to any different with this limited squad? There sure aint any cash lying around to spend on changing it.

 

One last thing though - is it just me or are others fed up with 'experts' mouthing off in th media about things they are ignorant about? We had Big nose thompson on sky talking about how we used o be such a well run club attracting the likes of Keegan etc - hello, that was a different fecking era when Europes best could be had for maybe twice the avergae salary not £200K a week. FFS, and as far as I could see we were a well run club until relegation, when panic and ****wittage set in in desperation to cope with the 60% revenue loss.... then we had the same on fottie focus with that old ralling cry of teh ignmorant 'where has teh moeny gone' - simple answer really do youir fecking research and review the published audited accounts FFS... easy lazy sloppy crap journalism as the old guard jump on the bandwagon in support of LM - who must be right because he is a true football man and never would have got us relegated......

 

I do rewally feckin hate American influenced media/marketing/business speak, but there is one saying that IMHO does sum up where we are as fans - 'if you aint part of the solution....

[Sundance Beast]

I just wonder what sort of opinion we would have of LM in these modern times had the impact of relegation been the same in the 70's as it is now? For all the posturing, bullshiete, public slaggings and disputes over everything from the board, squad and petty childish bickering from all sides, the reason we are in this crap is simply money.

 

And in these modern times, being used to sitting at the top table, and the massive financila impact of relegation fans less prepared to see this as part of the game - the loonger it goes on the worse the situation gets and and the more speak out against it - the same who were quiet when SMS was opened, or when getting freebies at Cardiff...

 

Its easy to criticise from the outside, but we saw saw feck all improvement when LMs pals were in the hot seat - why? - Simple, because foral the rubbish spouted, for all the ingnorant ramblings of 'hate' and 'runinig our club' - its just down to the lack of cash and WHOEVER is in charge will face the same nightmares, whoever is appointed manager, will have to work under the same restrictions - how will we replace kids with experienced players when their wage demands will be 3 top 4 times higher?

 

The club is not dying because of one or two individuals, nor do clubs die because mistakes are made in good faithm, or new things tried, or managers appointed that fans dont like (none of us where too hopeful or happy when WGS arrived) - what is killing our club is the simple lack of cash meaning we are stuck fielding kids who are not ready - BECAUSE THAT IS ALL WE CAN AFFORD - and when someone comes in with a plan to provide the CASH (not futher loans and debt) to fund this, great but its easy to talk - and thus the lack of success is trying our patience - because we are so used to relative success when we beat our neighbours regulary and also those we played again yesterday... sending their arrogant fans back to surrey in misery - Now we dont go which compounds the financial problems.

 

Yes there are also problems wit some of the fundementals on the pitch - lack of width, lack of penetration and inexperienced defence etc, things JP needs to sort of be shuipped out - but would a new maanger of calibre we could attract given the money be able to any different with this limited squad? There sure aint any cash lying around to spend on changing it.

 

One last thing though - is it just me or are others fed up with 'experts' mouthing off in th media about things they are ignorant about? We had Big nose thompson on sky talking about how we used o be such a well run club attracting the likes of Keegan etc - hello, that was a different fecking era when Europes best could be had for maybe twice the avergae salary not £200K a week. FFS, and as far as I could see we were a well run club until relegation, when panic and ****wittage set in in desperation to cope with the 60% revenue loss.... then we had the same on fottie focus with that old ralling cry of teh ignmorant 'where has teh moeny gone' - simple answer really do youir fecking research and review the published audited accounts FFS... easy lazy sloppy crap journalism as the old guard jump on the bandwagon in support of LM - who must be right because he is a true football man and never would have got us relegated......

 

I do rewally feckin hate American influenced media/marketing/business speak, but there is one saying that IMHO does sum up where we are as fans - 'if you aint part of the solution....

 

Excellent post FC and one that will receive little or no acknowledgement from those fans whose vitrolic outbursts on this forum and no doubt in their little circle of mates are inadvertently influencing a stay away campaign for those to weak willed or even fearful to stand up for their club and support them when they need it most. As you say, 'if you aint part of the solution....'.

 

It was great to see the ground yesterday back to capacity but I also thought it was a moment of unwitting pathos when the Manure fans started chanting 'you're only here to see United'. Of course for about 10,000 Saints 'fans' that was completely true and I hope the moment wasn't lost on them. If the likes of struggling teams like Norwich and Derby can regularly pull in 24k+ crowds why can't we? Can I suggest the ignorant few who as you say were as quiet as mice up to 2003 and who now wish to start another pointless campaign to oust the CEO and create further divide without plan are actually the main culprits of the division and decling income by their almost 'holligan' style of forcing their ill thought out opinions down the throats of others that make many of us ashamed to actually come out and say we support the club and everything they are trying to achieve or at least keep our opinions to ourselves unless we raise our hoods, umbrellas, etc to protect ourselves from a shower of spit from idiotic venomous rants.

 

Congratulations once again on a great post and one that the rabid anti-club fan can't protest against as there is no attempt to rewrite history and clear reasoning to prove their current actions are creating the divide and contributing to our cashless existence.

 

History shapes us but it doesn't help us resolve the problems of today at a time when we need to look forward and not back. McMenemy like Thompson. Merrington and even Le God are merely cashing in on their history and need to take a leaf out of the books of Charlton and Robson to name but a few. Do we hear unsupportive tripe from Benali? Why? He chose to be part of the solution unlike the real Judas and his 30 coins of expenses and fools gold of managerial advice.

[SaintRobbie]

 

History shapes us but it doesn't help us resolve the problems of today at a time when we need to look forward and not back. McMenemy like Thompson. Merrington and even Le God are merely cashing in on their history and need to take a leaf out of the books of Charlton and Robson to name but a few. Do we hear unsupportive tripe from Benali? Why? He chose to be part of the solution unlike the real Judas and his 30 coins of expenses and fools gold of managerial advice.

 

Another load of complete and utter rubbish. I particularly find this bit offensive.

 

I also expect Benali to follow MLTs lead.

 

God you're on another planet mate or smoking the same stuff JP is... either that or you are a Skate plant or indeed Rupert Lowe.

[once_bitterne]

McMenemy is a football dinosaur who needs to stop hanging around SMS and get back to tending his roses as he was doing during the WGS era. He is nothing but a bitter old man doing bringing nothing positive to the club when it is going through troubled times.

 

Yes he was manager during our most successful time but that was in a different age and football now bears no comparison at all to how it was in the 70s 80s.

 

People like Bobby Charlton show how great former players/manangers should behave. He is a true servant to the club and has never stooped to having to be handsomly reimbursed for the work he does for Man Yoo. The same cannot be said for McMoneyme who demands payment for any involvement with the club.

 

The trouble with LM is his huge ego, maybe that's why him and Lowe cannot stand each other.... Can you name another manager who awarded HIMSELF a testomonial match (and then moaned that not as many fans turned up as did to Channon's!!).

 

If you need to find out just how big a legend he is in his own mind then re-read 'Diary of a Season', it's laughable how LM constantly compares himself to the likes of Shankly and Clough when, in managerial terms, he isn't fit to shine their shoes. With an FA Cup win as the only major trophy win in his career he should be comparing himself to the likes of Bobby Gould and Redknapp.....

[sadoldgit]

Would Keegan have signed for Lowe?

 

Has Lowe got the personality and man mangement skills to attract the very best?

 

Can Lowe sell his football vision to world class footballers, and be able to attract them to the club?

 

Would a player of Keegan's ability sign for a club like SFC nowdays even with LM at the helm?

 

No. We simply could not afford the wages.

 

(ps, Keegan's signing also had a lot to do with the fact that his best mate Channon did a lot to sell the club to him).

Edited 5 January, 2009 by sadoldgit

[sadoldgit]

I just wonder what sort of opinion we would have of LM in these modern times had the impact of relegation been the same in the 70's as it is now? For all the posturing, bullshiete, public slaggings and disputes over everything from the board, squad and petty childish bickering from all sides, the reason we are in this crap is simply money.

 

And in these modern times, being used to sitting at the top table, and the massive financila impact of relegation fans less prepared to see this as part of the game - the loonger it goes on the worse the situation gets and and the more speak out against it - the same who were quiet when SMS was opened, or when getting freebies at Cardiff...

 

Its easy to criticise from the outside, but we saw saw feck all improvement when LMs pals were in the hot seat - why? - Simple, because foral the rubbish spouted, for all the ingnorant ramblings of 'hate' and 'runinig our club' - its just down to the lack of cash and WHOEVER is in charge will face the same nightmares, whoever is appointed manager, will have to work under the same restrictions - how will we replace kids with experienced players when their wage demands will be 3 top 4 times higher?

 

The club is not dying because of one or two individuals, nor do clubs die because mistakes are made in good faithm, or new things tried, or managers appointed that fans dont like (none of us where too hopeful or happy when WGS arrived) - what is killing our club is the simple lack of cash meaning we are stuck fielding kids who are not ready - BECAUSE THAT IS ALL WE CAN AFFORD - and when someone comes in with a plan to provide the CASH (not futher loans and debt) to fund this, great but its easy to talk - and thus the lack of success is trying our patience - because we are so used to relative success when we beat our neighbours regulary and also those we played again yesterday... sending their arrogant fans back to surrey in misery - Now we dont go which compounds the financial problems.

 

Yes there are also problems wit some of the fundementals on the pitch - lack of width, lack of penetration and inexperienced defence etc, things JP needs to sort of be shuipped out - but would a new maanger of calibre we could attract given the money be able to any different with this limited squad? There sure aint any cash lying around to spend on changing it.

 

One last thing though - is it just me or are others fed up with 'experts' mouthing off in th media about things they are ignorant about? We had Big nose thompson on sky talking about how we used o be such a well run club attracting the likes of Keegan etc - hello, that was a different fecking era when Europes best could be had for maybe twice the avergae salary not £200K a week. FFS, and as far as I could see we were a well run club until relegation, when panic and ****wittage set in in desperation to cope with the 60% revenue loss.... then we had the same on fottie focus with that old ralling cry of teh ignmorant 'where has teh moeny gone' - simple answer really do youir fecking research and review the published audited accounts FFS... easy lazy sloppy crap journalism as the old guard jump on the bandwagon in support of LM - who must be right because he is a true football man and never would have got us relegated......

 

I do rewally feckin hate American influenced media/marketing/business speak, but there is one saying that IMHO does sum up where we are as fans - 'if you aint part of the solution....

 

Good to see you posting again FC. This place needs more common sense posting and less of the knee jerk reactionary stuff the the Usual Suspects trot out every day.

[John B]

Another load of complete and utter rubbish. I particularly find this bit offensive.

 

I also expect Benali to follow MLTs lead.

 

God you're on another planet mate or smoking the same stuff JP is... either that or you are a Skate plant or indeed Rupert Lowe.

 

 

Another load of complete and utter rubbish.

 

 

The posts you were referring to were realistic and sensible we are in a diferent era and have no money

[ottery st mary]

Good to see you posting again FC. This place needs more common sense posting and less of the knee jerk reactionary stuff the the Usual Suspects trot out every day.

 

The irony of your comments, your as bad as the rest of us and you know it.

Your no fun anymore papa.

[SaintRobbie]

Another load of complete and utter rubbish.

 

 

The posts you were referring to were realistic and sensible

 

Not that bit. Sorry but when footballing legends like MLT, who understand the situation at the club better then most through personal knowledge and media contacts, acknolwedge that its time to say something and then are knocked down for it by such drivel as that I think I am right in saying Sundance is talking utter rubbish.

 

Sorry John. Time to change. To change alot at this club. It starts from Lowe and then needs to spread rapidly in order to give us a fighting chance of promotion back to the CCC at the end of next season.

 

I cant stand the idea we just let this nonesense continue.

 

Its time to do something - that means getting the Club sold. We need to get off our arses and sell this club... and if we fail... go out there again and sel this club... and again... why? Because it's our ONLY hope. That's your new era mate.

Edited 5 January, 2009 by SaintRobbie

[John B]

Not that bit. Sorry but when footballing legends like MLT, who understand the situation at the club better then most through personal knowledge and media contacts, acknolwedge that its time to say something and then are knocked down for it by such drivel as that I think I am right in saying Sundance is talking utter rubbish.

 

Sorry John. Time to change. To change alot at this club. It starts from Lowe and then needs to spread rapidly in order to give us a fighting chance of promotion back to the CCC at the end of next season.

 

OK Robbie but without out any money it is unlikely that SFC will be in the Premiership in the long run.

 

 

Mixing home grown players not kids with quality signings was why SFC was successful for 25 years.

 

 

Not Mixing home grown players with quality signings was why SFC was have been unsuccessful for the past 20 years.

 

 

Now Mixing kids with old pros is why SFC is today unsuccessful .

 

 

Without Investment which has never been forthcoming in the last 50 years we will have to wait for success until our home grown players are no longer kids

[sadoldgit]

The irony of your comments, your as bad as the rest of us and you know it.

Your no fun anymore papa.

 

 

How so? Do I come on here and slag off people at the club every day? Do I come and post negative comments about the club every day?

[ottery st mary]

How so? Do I come on here and slag off people at the club every day? Do I come and post negative comments about the club every day?

 

No, but most of the posters are not as bad as some of your group make out. Most are giving a type of gut reaction to various situation. I accept if the leadership had been a little more pro in its treatment of the fans and the re-organisation of the club, instead of this continued dictorial type behaviour, then many of the posters would not be so forthecoming with their opinions against the mighty one. He makes a rod for his own back...He continues to fail at every turn.

Why do they let him continue this clear destruction of a football club...The youth alone , finacially or on the pitch will not save us..He should be replaced and now.

 

Nothing personal against you but I too have become saddened and bitter to a man I have only met briefly in corridoors and had nothing personal against.

I must admit I found him totally arrogant and dismissive of those around him.

I have judged him , now, on what he has done and continues to do to our club...There seems to be no sense or direction to what is going on.

I understand about the money, but you have to admit the way he has gone and been allowed to carry on unchallenged is tantamount to scandalous.

Yes any reasonable person in business/football should be in place now as Lowe and his group will continue down to Div 1.

 

No more fighting amongst us posters/fans...But some on here are clearly not fans of the Saints but purely of Lowe or contracted to cause a lot of the disputes in protection of Mr Lowe..

But then if you genuinely support him and his strategy/direction good luck to you.

[sadoldgit]

Ottery, I think we are all saddended about what has been happening here for a number of years. Some people think it is all down to one man, others think it is down to a number of reasons.

As we saw when Lowe left for a while, managing the expectations of the fans of a club like SFC is not easy and the new bunch did not fare well either.

I totally agree with FCs post. I think we are where we are because of money (or lack of it).

If agree with Lowe at all it comes down to living within our means, or trying to.

I don't see the point in coming on here every day and giving him or JP a kicking. They are both doing their best (I believe) in difficult circumstances, what else can you ask?

Ok, so there were/are other options. Whose to say they would pan out any better.

None of us (no Um Pahars, not even you) are privvy to what goes on with the bankers or in Board meetings - and those that think they know are usually fed spin from others with their own agendas.

Negativity is pulling this club apart (and who is to say it didn't play a part in Cork's decsions to leave?).

Constructive critisism is fine, but who ofetn do you see that here? Usually it is the same old Lowe out, we are all doomed because of him stuff.

Rate him or not, JP is our manager right now and needs all the support he can get, as does the club.

We need to find a way to look past the blame game and witch hunting mindset and get behind SFC.

We also need to see that jsut because someone doesn't not pin every single mistake down to Lowe that they are not his supporters of him in disguise.

Of all the posters here I can think of only two who overtly support Lowe outright.

Edited 5 January, 2009 by sadoldgit

[Sundance Beast]

Not that bit. Sorry but when footballing legends like MLT, who understand the situation at the club better then most through personal knowledge and media contacts, acknolwedge that its time to say something and then are knocked down for it by such drivel as that I think I am right in saying Sundance is talking utter rubbish.

 

Sorry John. Time to change. To change alot at this club. It starts from Lowe and then needs to spread rapidly in order to give us a fighting chance of promotion back to the CCC at the end of next season.

 

I cant stand the idea we just let this nonesense continue.

 

Its time to do something - that means getting the Club sold. We need to get off our arses and sell this club... and if we fail... go out there again and sel this club... and again... why? Because it's our ONLY hope. That's your new era mate.

 

 

This is an example of the ill-conceived ideas that are regularly put forward by those who seem increasingly anti-club than anti-Lowe. This club could not attract a suitable buyer in the good times and now we find ourselves in a global economic trough you seriously expect this club to be brought out when everyday the news reports another well known company going to the wall.

 

Even Ashley has resigned himself to keeping hold of Newcastle as he couldn't find a seller for one of the best supported clubs in the country and mercandising capabilities that we can only dream about.

 

Even if we sold there is no guarantee the fans will return as most of the plastics aren't interested in who the chairman is, simply whether we are in the Premiership or not, and this was painfully evident when Lowe was removed last time to the expectation of increased gates. It simply did not happen.

 

The new era is to support what we have and build this club back to what it was and that will take a lot longer than next season (ho ho). Its a time for patience and resolve and rediscovering the true meaning of supporting your team instead of spitting out your dummies over the fact that the inevitable happened and after 27 years we got relegated. It was merely fortunate it didn't happen sooner in 1993, 1994, 1996, 1997 and 1998. There were also plenty of other occassions between promotion and relegation when we skirted close to the drop than we would have hoped and like the rest of our peers we have no divine right to top flight football and certainly not with a fanbase as fickle and divisive as ours.

 

Selling the club is not our only hope provided fans like yourself have the humility (like Wilde) to swallow your pride and support the only known and viable way forward at the momenmt. Failing that keep your ill-thought out opinions and vitrolic abuse to yourself as it undermines those genuine fans who support the club but have more viable and realistic ideas about moving forward without Lowe at the helm.

 

Those ideas mainly revolve around a complete change in personnel and business approach to generate revenue and those anti-lowe's worth listening to are not foolish enough to spout off about milking some cash cow. Unfortunately, these posters are in the minority and it's the venomous vacuous vessels such as yourself that are damaging your own far fetched dreams of finding a buyer. Look up a few ideas from Wes Tender and we may start to find some common ground but even then it needs some assumptions that are far from guaranteed but at least unlike your rants they have an air of credibility. In the meantime, I prefer to back the best known alternative we have and I respectfully suggest you and the rest shut up and do the same.

[70's Mike]

This is an example of the ill-conceived ideas that are regularly put forward by those who seem increasingly anti-club than anti-Lowe. This club could not attract a suitable buyer in the good times and now we find ourselves in a global economic trough you seriously expect this club to be brought out when everyday the news reports another well known company going to the wall.

 

Even Ashley has resigned himself to keeping hold of Newcastle as he couldn't find a seller for one of the best supported clubs in the country and mercandising capabilities that we can only dream about.

 

Even if we sold there is no guarantee the fans will return as most of the plastics aren't interested in who the chairman is, simply whether we are in the Premiership or not, and this was painfully evident when Lowe was removed last time to the expectation of increased gates. It simply did not happen.

 

The new era is to support what we have and build this club back to what it was and that will take a lot longer than next season (ho ho). Its a time for patience and resolve and rediscovering the true meaning of supporting your team instead of spitting out your dummies over the fact that the inevitable happened and after 27 years we got relegated. It was merely fortunate it didn't happen sooner in 1993, 1994, 1996, 1997 and 1998. There were also plenty of other occassions between promotion and relegation when we skirted close to the drop than we would have hoped and like the rest of our peers we have no divine right to top flight football and certainly not with a fanbase as fickle and divisive as ours.

 

Selling the club is not our only hope provided fans like yourself have the humility (like Wilde) to swallow your pride and support the only known and viable way forward at the momenmt. Failing that keep your ill-thought out opinions and vitrolic abuse to yourself as it undermines those genuine fans who support the club but have more viable and realistic ideas about moving forward without Lowe at the helm.

 

Those ideas mainly revolve around a complete change in personnel and business approach to generate revenue and those anti-lowe's worth listening to are not foolish enough to spout off about milking some cash cow. Unfortunately, these posters are in the minority and it's the venomous vacuous vessels such as yourself that are damaging your own far fetched dreams of finding a buyer. Look up a few ideas from Wes Tender and we may start to find some common ground but even then it needs some assumptions that are far from guaranteed but at least unlike your rants they have an air of credibility. In the meantime, I prefer to back the best known alternative we have and I respectfully suggest you and the rest shut up and do the same.

 

agree with most of that except 2nd sentence.

we do not know if we could have found a suitable buyer in the good times, because we do not know if rupert was looking or even prepared to look

[David Strover]

McMenemy achieved success but was it outstanding even in his own era? No not really when it wasn't even that much of a shock for a division 2 club to win the FA Cup. Lowe has also achieved success and delivered something for us all that goes beyond an engraving on a piece of silverware.

 

This is where you prove without doubt your football ignorance. I was around in those days and I went to the Final and I can tell you for a fact that the odds for Southampton to win were absolutely ridiculous considering there were only two teams playing and football pundits were predicting a five or six goal win for United - that is a FACT. Southampton beating Manchester United in the 1976 FA Cup Final was a bigger shock than Sunderland beating Leeds United but for some unknown reason it hardly every gets a mention in the media.

 

Nowadays of course under the current regime Bristol Rovers, Rotherham United, Mansfield Town or East Gasworks Lane Paperboys XI Reserves beating my club in a cup competition isn't even considered a shock!

 

Those you don't learn from the past are condemned to repeat it - look what happened in out last relegation season. Now I wonder who was the chairman in charge then?......

[pingpong]

apologies if this has been pointed out already, but the bloke is a nutjob.

 

imagine if lowe had given that interview, talking about lead violinists and roadsweepers. - he'd have been crucified by the people on here!

[OldNick]

I have the greatest respect for LM Saints pre 1985.

He was superb...well after the first 18 months, but he like Hoddle walked out on us and i dont forgive that easily.

Yes he did put us on the map (although we were already in the 1st division) He managed the cup winning side and took us on some great days away.Branfoot took us to Wembley but I dont see his picture up in the boardroom eaither.Surely WGS should have as much to say about not haviing a picture up.

If RL had done and interview and taken a framed picture of hiself along what would have been said then?

Iam bitter about LM and him selling his shares, him being Graham Taylors right hand man and overseeing Carlto Palmer and Geaff thomas played for England at the expense of a true Saints legend MLT.

If LM comes forward and puts up a large amount of money to save us then superb he's my hero again, but like Hoddle ,Burley, Redknapp, and even WGS they walked and left us in the lurch without a second thought.

Im sorry to all those who still see he has done no wrong, but I cannot bring myself to giving him too much adulation as I still remember the day he left for Sunderland.

[offix]

Wow, nothing like a thread about Lawrie to bring out all the nasty venomous Ru**rt plants and assorted vermin!

[EastleighSoulBoy]

Possibly the only time I've seen full Party Seven's used as missiles.

 

They didn't have beer in them!

 

But maybe you knew that.

[up and away]

McMenemy is a football dinosaur who needs to stop hanging around SMS and get back to tending his roses as he was doing during the WGS era. He is nothing but a bitter old man doing bringing nothing positive to the club when it is going through troubled times.

 

Yes he was manager during our most successful time but that was in a different age and football now bears no comparison at all to how it was in the 70s 80s.

 

People like Bobby Charlton show how great former players/manangers should behave. He is a true servant to the club and has never stooped to having to be handsomly reimbursed for the work he does for Man Yoo. The same cannot be said for McMoneyme who demands payment for any involvement with the club.

 

The trouble with LM is his huge ego, maybe that's why him and Lowe cannot stand each other.... Can you name another manager who awarded HIMSELF a testomonial match (and then moaned that not as many fans turned up as did to Channon's!!).

 

If you need to find out just how big a legend he is in his own mind then re-read 'Diary of a Season', it's laughable how LM constantly compares himself to the likes of Shankly and Clough when, in managerial terms, he isn't fit to shine their shoes. With an FA Cup win as the only major trophy win in his career he should be comparing himself to the likes of Bobby Gould and Redknapp.....

 

I think you have to separate McMenemy the manager and what has followed. Relevant points regarding taking us down in his first season and the subsequent departure to Sunderland, but overall his effect as manager at Saints has been immense, even ahead of Ted in that respect in my book. I cannot praise the guy enough for everything he did during that period, even with those negative aspects. But some of his traits which made him a success as a manager make him an absolute nightmare for anyone who has had to work with him since. I don't know anyone (including ex players) that had to subsequently work alongside / under him who have a good word to say for him. The bully, the ego which aided him as a manager has such a destructive influence in subequent positions, that it is just not worth the bother. Either have him in charge of the whole lot or no where near any of it. Most of the bitterness and animosity generates from this direction and I would be more than happy if he had nothing to do with our club again.

[SaintRobbie]

OK Robbie but without out any money it is unlikely that SFC will be in the Premiership in the long run.

 

 

Mixing home grown players not kids with quality signings was why SFC was successful for 25 years.

 

 

Not Mixing home grown players with quality signings was why SFC was have been unsuccessful for the past 20 years.

 

 

Now Mixing kids with old pros is why SFC is today unsuccessful .

 

 

Without Investment which has never been forthcoming in the last 50 years we will have to wait for success until our home grown players are no longer kids

 

 

Agree 100%... although we do not have enough old pros at the moment. We do need a takeover and investment. I have suggested that we stop sitting on our backsides but be constructive and proactive by forming a board of legends, council, local MP if necessary, Crouch/Wilde and fans and we get out there and find a buyer.

 

We can let Lowe continue to kill the Club - because when he continually sells our best players there is absolutely no chance of success (It will be like waiting for a bus to come that was scrapped on that route 14 years ago) - or we can try and try again to do something to SELL this club.

 

Sitting on our backsides and hoping for a Lowe miracle is only an option for people awaiting a van with a white coated man on the bus route described.

 

No other resources will be forthcoming. So why dont we do something constructive? Answer: Lowe and the other shareholders who use Lowe wont sell. Evidence: SISU. Can Wilde and Crouch force the issue... yes they probably can.

[CB Fry]

 

If you need to find out just how big a legend he is in his own mind then re-read 'Diary of a Season', it's laughable how LM constantly compares himself to the likes of Shankly and Clough when, in managerial terms, he isn't fit to shine their shoes. With an FA Cup win as the only major trophy win in his career he should be comparing himself to the likes of Bobby Gould and Redknapp.....

 

 

You don't need to try that hard.

 

I would suggest that at least once a month Big Lawrie in his column, or in a radio or TV interview, makes some reference to "me, Bobby Robson and Brian Clough" as if he is part of some holy trinity of great English managers. Time and time again he'll us that phrase. "Me, Bobby and Brian".

 

When, of course in reality he is nowhere near that level. Nowhere near.

 

Lawrie was successful at one club, once.

 

Those other two were successful time and time again, at different clubs, at the very highest level and in Bobby's case on the International Stage too. Both had success in Lawries time, but both had success before and after Lawries time - much much longer than when Lawrie burnt out in 1986.

 

Lawrie - good manager, brilliant manager for us, but nowhere near the elite.

 

Plenty of managers have achieved just as much or more than our "big man" from John Lyall to Ron Greenwood, from Graham Taylor to Howard Kendall, from David Pleat to Bobby Gould, from Ron Atkinson to George Graham. All had as much or more success over more time at more clubs. All transferred their skills and extended their careers more successfully.

 

All said, he is a Saints hero, but his big season back in charge last season hardly set the league alight and when the time came to make a decision he couldn't resist the appointment that gave him the most power: Dodd and Gorman. He out Lowe-d Lowe with that one.

 

No question the back of Lowe and co would be a good thing, but breaking free of the shadow of the ego would be a brilliant thing for Saints as well.

 

Lets move on into the 2010s.

[um pahars]

the reason we are in this crap is simply money.

 

Although you allude to it later in your post, I have to say I do think you are rather missing the point with your analysis.

 

With the exception of one or two dreamers, I think the vast majority of Saints fans are aware that we are up shi87t creek with regards finances and how our financial problems have a massive impact on what we can and cannot do.

 

The financial issues certainly constrain what we would like to do, BUT they do not mean that we have not had choices or not had different strategies that we could have followed. Whilst there may have been a limit on the number of different routes we could have taken, there is no way that this was the only possible path that we could have followed.

 

And the single biggest decision that we have made was the decision that has the biggest single impact on any football team, notably the decision to sack Pearson and go with a total non entity in Poortvliet.

 

This decision had minimal (if any) reference to our finances.

 

Pearson was not on mega wages, Pearson worked with youngsters in the past and Pearson was open about having to lose the big stars and having to play more of the youngsters in the future.

 

That decision was not forced upon Lowe due to financial implications, that was a decision that he made for footballing reasons, and it is a decision that is costing us on and off the pitch.

 

On the pitch performances are hitting us in the league table as we sit in the bottom two and show no sign of improving. 13 new faces have come in which indicate there is some flexibility within the squad, it's just a shame that the few resources we had have not been utilised wisely at this crucial time.

 

Poor performances (notably at home) are also hitting us off the pitch as attendances slump. An extra 1,000 bums on seats for each game equates to something like half a million over a season. Rather than continually cutting costs, maybe we should also be considering growing revenue!

 

So whilst money plays a big part in what strategies we can or cannot pursue, the lack of it does not exonerate the poor decisions relating to the recruitment of a new manager and the subsequent signings, tactics and performances under him.

[VectisSaint]

They didn't have beer in them!

 

But maybe you knew that.

Surely Party Sevens never had beer in them, even when full

[up and away]

Originally Posted by Frank's cousin

the reason we are in this crap is simply money.

Although you allude to it later in your post, I have to say I do think you are rather missing the point with your analysis.

 

With the exception of one or two dreamers, I think the vast majority of Saints fans are aware that we are up shi87t creek with regards finances and how our financial problems have a massive impact on what we can and cannot do.

 

The financial issues certainly constrain what we would like to do, BUT they do not mean that we have not had choices or not had different strategies that we could have followed. Whilst there may have been a limit on the number of different routes we could have taken, there is no way that this was the only possible path that we could have followed.

 

And the single biggest decision that we have made was the decision that has the biggest single impact on any football team, notably the decision to sack Pearson and go with a total non entity in Poortvliet.

 

This decision had minimal (if any) reference to our finances.

 

Pearson was not on mega wages, Pearson worked with youngsters in the past and Pearson was open about having to lose the big stars and having to play more of the youngsters in the future.

 

That decision was not forced upon Lowe due to financial implications, that was a decision that he made for footballing reasons, and it is a decision that is costing us on and off the pitch.

 

On the pitch performances are hitting us in the league table as we sit in the bottom two and show no sign of improving. 13 new faces have come in which indicate there is some flexibility within the squad, it's just a shame that the few resources we had have not been utilised wisely at this crucial time.

 

Poor performances (notably at home) are also hitting us off the pitch as attendances slump. An extra 1,000 bums on seats for each game equates to something like half a million over a season. Rather than continually cutting costs, maybe we should also be considering growing revenue!

 

So whilst money plays a big part in what strategies we can or cannot pursue, the lack of it does not exonerate the poor decisions relating to the recruitment of a new manager and the subsequent signings, tactics and performances under him.

 

Again missing the point, the lack of finances has a far greater effect than you are portraying. I agree fully with the point regarding Pearson, we could have afforded him and yet we took a punt with a Dutchman with little experience in this league. But what would Pearson exactly have had available to him? Even Jermaine Wright turned down the sort of money we were offering and our problems with getting in a decent freebie or experienced loan player for the money we are offering is clear. So basically because of this financial mess we are forced to go down the route with the youth players. When you consider how much the rug has been pulled from beneath Jan because of the worsening financial picture since he arrived, you really wonder how many other managers would have stood up to that pressure? even Pearson. We clearly heard from one experienced wannabe in Basset that he would have just ignored the chairman once he got the job and just go his own way, so that could easily have influenced the decision. It seemed clear from the begining that we would not be shifting many of the high earners on a fee because of their very high salaries, evident fro Skacel and Saga. Then compound that with lower gates and the problem becomes nigh on impossible. Although my personal pick would have gone to Pearson, there is nothing from his performances to demonstrate that he would fare any better, with all the players and loans removed from his selection. Just add a couple of decent experienced pro's to Jans team and it is not difficult to see we could be doing far better. What we have seen from Jan football wise with the youngsters has been impressive, but not good enough because of inexperience in the defence and being physically over powered. We could have overcome that problem with money and had a good season, but we don't have that money and have to scrape through the best we can. It's very simple to state that we can go out and get some old pro for peanuts, but to find one of any use and not get outbid salary wise by a League 1 side is another matter.

 

THIS IS ALL ABOUT FINANCE!

[um pahars]

Again missing the point, the lack of finances has a far greater effect than you are portraying.

 

We have brought in 13 new faces since last summer so add up all the agents fees, loan fees (where applicable), transfer fees, a new coach in Gorre, and there must be an element of leeway in the finances. It's certainly not "we can afford anyone" time, but there has been some flexibility.

 

Of those 13 faces, 2 maybe 3 have played any meaningful part in the season so far. How much better would it have been if those signings had been more focussed or overseen by a manager with a bit of nous of this league???

 

Then of course with each extra 2,000 bums on seats equating to a million over a season, it's not difficult to see how success on the pitch easily translates into money in the bank. Nothing is guaranteed of course, but the easiest way of boosting revenue is by winning games (particularly at home).

 

And that's before even considering that Poortvliet has underperformed even with the limited squad at his disposal. Nothing is guaranteed in football, but I very much doubt if many on here (or in the real world) think that Pearson would have performed as poorly as Jan.

 

Of course finances dictate many of the decisions we take, but sacking Pearson and installing this "Revolutionary Coaching Set Up" was not driven by financial motivation.

[Frank's cousin]

Although you allude to it later in your post, I have to say I do think you are rather missing the point with your analysis.

 

With the exception of one or two dreamers, I think the vast majority of Saints fans are aware that we are up shi87t creek with regards finances and how our financial problems have a massive impact on what we can and cannot do.

 

The financial issues certainly constrain what we would like to do, BUT they do not mean that we have not had choices or not had different strategies that we could have followed. Whilst there may have been a limit on the number of different routes we could have taken, there is no way that this was the only possible path that we could have followed.

 

And the single biggest decision that we have made was the decision that has the biggest single impact on any football team, notably the decision to sack Pearson and go with a total non entity in Poortvliet.

 

This decision had minimal (if any) reference to our finances.

 

Pearson was not on mega wages, Pearson worked with youngsters in the past and Pearson was open about having to lose the big stars and having to play more of the youngsters in the future.

 

That decision was not forced upon Lowe due to financial implications, that was a decision that he made for footballing reasons, and it is a decision that is costing us on and off the pitch.

 

On the pitch performances are hitting us in the league table as we sit in the bottom two and show no sign of improving. 13 new faces have come in which indicate there is some flexibility within the squad, it's just a shame that the few resources we had have not been utilised wisely at this crucial time.

 

Poor performances (notably at home) are also hitting us off the pitch as attendances slump. An extra 1,000 bums on seats for each game equates to something like half a million over a season. Rather than continually cutting costs, maybe we should also be considering growing revenue!

 

So whilst money plays a big part in what strategies we can or cannot pursue, the lack of it does not exonerate the poor decisions relating to the recruitment of a new manager and the subsequent signings, tactics and performances under him.

 

Dont agree I'm afraid - IT IS ALL DOWN TO MONEY - My guess is the ONLY reason Pearson was not kept on was that Lowe or whoever felt Pearson would keep playing the older more expensive players who Lowe believed we needed to ship out to save money - and that the Dutch guys with their 'Ajax' model of youth development would be able to miraculously build a winning side from the kids we had - WHO ARE cheap as chips.

 

Be honest - for all Lowe's perceived obsession with youth development - and without doubt this has merit, I dont belive we would be playing nothing but kids if we had the resources to blend these with the experienced CCC players or better that would guarrantee promotion - afterall we did not do this in the prem when we had funds.

 

It might not be working and there will be plenty happy to say 'I told you so' - rather than feel dissapointed that another clutch at hope/straws has failed to deliver (naivety is what keeps football fans supporting surely?), BUT I dont think Pearson would have fared any better if only having the kids at his disposal - he may well have done had we kept last years squad witha few changes, but we simply did not have that luxury.

 

I am sure, NIgel, to his credit was prepared to stay on and give it a go - and like most i would have loved to have seen him be given that chance, but we cant presume that he would have been able to get anything more from the kids we have than JP and Wotte.

 

Ultimately, it is all about the cash - it is and always has dictated the decisions in the board room - be it 'living within our means' or the current 'youth experiment'. Which manager we have had, which have stayed, which have left because they felt they were 'not supported' etc - all down to cash

 

Becuase if Lowe's ego is as great as so many peresume, what makes us think that he would not love to be idolised? As the cahirman who provided the support and backing for Saints Champions league success? Seriously, how some think that had we the cash, that we would not spend it is beyond me. Sure he is never going to take and never did take risks with cash - only with managers, and yes there is the argument that by taking risks with managers you are risking cash long term if it goes pear shaped, but you know what I mean.

 

It is as we have seen very easy for those on the outside - LM, thompson on Sky and even on Footie focus to give their two penneth worth - the old guard of football yet again siezing on speculation and ignorance to have a go - and naturally because they are 'real football' people despite not being in pocession of the facts and in some cases with an axe to grind, they are seen as the oracles.

 

The analysis many have given on our demise has been so over blown and complicated as each side has tried to grasp any possible small bit of fact, rumour, gossip and speculation and build it up to support their version, that the simple facts have been forgotten:

 

Lowe made a mistake in apppointing Wigley - a loyal club servent and respected young coach - who was also available within a reasonable salary figure with budget - given that we would also have been paying out Sturrock (Not sure what truthfully happened there, but I doubt it was instigated by Lowe) - well feck me if mistakes dont happen.

 

It weas compounded by leaving it so long and the redknapp debacle - and for those errors Lowe can be blamed well and truely - but how many other chairman get the appointment right all the time?

 

We got relegated and we lost 30 mil + year - sorry but 6.5 mil in parachutes does not cover the immediate losses - we had the turmoil, the sales, the upheaval and for a while it looked like we might have progress, what with GB getting us to the playoffs having spent cash we did not have to try and get promotion - a BIG risk which failed and left us even more in the mire - and also compounds how fans feel as in order to recoup the money we should not have spent we are forced to loan out and sell again - making it feel for us fans like another relegation anyway - yet we are also alot more forgiving of those who risk cash yet fail, becuase of the expectations of success it gives and thus the excited anticipation that comes with the belief we can actually achievs something - rather than the despair and misery that comes with a summer of cutting costs.

 

That is - if you take the egos and personalities out of the equation - the upshot - mistake made, money dolost - more money lost on a promotion push - more leavers, forced to play cheap kids and give them a cheap coach and hope it comes off -

 

 

The only difference I see between the fans really is there are those who like all fans started teh season with the tiniest bit of hope that it work out and took the positives from that, and there were those who knew it would never work becaus you win nothing with kids, but hey its saints so lets support them, and then those that simpy give nothing a chnace if its in any way associated with Lowe/axis of evil

 

Ultimately, it all comes down to cash - and strangely how we precieve Lowe does as well - nobody in their right mind would like teh bloke based on his media persona and the stories we hear, but depending on whether you believe 'living within ones means' is the right way to run a club, or a gung ho borrow and spend approach that provides the excitement of risk for fans and hang the consequences or somehwere in between. All points of view are equally valid - and as you can see have feck all to do with Lowe as a person -

 

It reminds me of being at school in about the mid 80s - there was this girl I really liked, but she was so into George Michael - I accused her of only liking him because of the way he looked - she responded that that was ******, it was the songs - to which I replied 'would you still have bought 'Faith' if it had been done by Shakin' Stevens'? - of course not was the reply - and I suspect that there are many fans WHO POST ON HERE - that see Lowe in the same way - less about the decisions and more about who made them.

[SaintRobbie]

 

It reminds me of being at school in about the mid 80s - there was this girl I really liked, but she was so into George Michael - I accused her of only liking him because of the way he looked - she responded that that was ******, it was the songs - to which I replied 'would you still have bought 'Faith' if it had been done by Shakin' Stevens'? - of course not was the reply - and I suspect that there are many fans WHO POST ON HERE - that see Lowe in the same way - less about the decisions and more about who made them.

 

Agree with a lot of that. But FC the most important point you make is in bold. A man who loses the faith of so many people over such a period time can only do that through negligence, ineptude, inability, poor salesmanship, poor media profiling, arrogance... the list goes on.

 

Lowe has done all that in spades and is therefore NOT TRUSTED and ASSOCIATED WITH FAILURE.

 

Whether he is right or not this time is no longer relevant, he is regarded as a loser, he disunites the Club (internally with employees both within SMS and in the team AND externally), he interfers with team business AND IS ACTING AS A DIRECTOR OF FOOTBALL a job he is not qualified to do, he has presided over the fall of this club and his policies (money driven or not) are leading us VERY rapidly into League 2 - not 1 - League 2.

 

Now, money or not... tell us where else a man who is as divisive and mistrusted leads a serious plc or any other business? I'm sorry, but confidence breeds success. Whether Lowe is good or not is now irrelevant, he is failing on a well established reputation for being a poor chairman.

 

I really do not understand why people think only Lowe can lead us out of this financial mess. Frankly we could employ a CEO who has more experience on a lower salary to handle the finances and still achieve the same result... but with unity.

 

Lowe is a cancer, the plc he represents is a cancer, Saints have been mismanaged by those connected to it for 14 odd years with only further relegation(s) to look forward to.

 

Lowe is not needed any longer... in any capacity. Nor are our shareholders. Time to delist and do a Sheffield Utd - Delist for the good of the Club. Delist and rebuild with new leadership.

 

Lowe HAS to leave for good - whether he's a genius or not, there if absolutely NO confidence in him apart from with the major shareholders who may - inadvertently or not - be stitching him up.

Edited 6 January, 2009 by SaintRobbie