SaintStinger Posted 2 August, 2015 Share Posted 2 August, 2015 Looking at his wiki page, and some other stats sites I noticed that, although I see some slight criticism from some fans, he does go a little unnoticed sometimes. Which is kind of strange when you look at his career. He's been a regular at every club he's been, at the top level, for the last 11 years. And when I say top level I do include his time at Rangers in that bracket. I do so because of the Champions league football every season he was there, and at least having a rival in Celtic. Celtic now are just 1 of the big..1. Plus we've had and, still want, players from the Scottish big clubs. He's played 30+ times every season since his Villa debut to now. 50+ appearances on more than one occasion. Throw in 75 international caps over the same period. He clearly lookes after himself and is the perfect Pro. A mangers dream i guess. They can't all be wrong. I think he'll be real handy this season and I'm glad he's a Saints players. The game against Vitesse was his 30th in Europe, the majority Champions League. Lots of experience. So i think the reason he doesn't get all the praise is his poor strike rate. He's never scored a lot. Only once ever coming slightly close to double figures in a season, including international goals. I don't ever think that'll change. Still, a lot of other clubs would be glad of his services. Is it just his poor finishing that that's missing from being a top drawer player? Just for arguements sake, If he was sold in the summer, would he a be a player that we would talk about replacing? As in, we need a new CB, striker and someone to replace Davis? And if so, who you you bring in to replace, or use instead of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singapore Saint Posted 2 August, 2015 Share Posted 2 August, 2015 Is it just his poor finishing that's missing from being a top drawer player? Agree, can't score for toffee. JWP being another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Durman Posted 2 August, 2015 Share Posted 2 August, 2015 (edited) These type of players are vital in a team. He is a worker, selfless, a team player. Watch how good his close control is. He doesn't score goals, because he can't generate the necessary power in his shot. Edited 2 August, 2015 by Andy Durman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 2 August, 2015 Share Posted 2 August, 2015 Most rated underrated player in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 2 August, 2015 Share Posted 2 August, 2015 (edited) Although he is seldom a " stand-out " player, he does a lot of off-the-ball running and many of his good passes go unnoticed, and 70+ N.I. international caps isn't bad. His lack of goal-scoring does seem to downgrade him in some peoples eyes, but if he were to score 4-5 goals a season, they would say how good he was a good MF-er. Koeman obviously rates him and gave him a contract extension to 2018, by which time he'll be past 30. JWP is his likely replacement (if he can get his act together) He's a real grafter and I expect to see him in the squad for another couple of seasons, though RK may sub. him a bit earlier in games to avoid injuries/wear and tear. Edited 2 August, 2015 by david in sweden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch Posted 2 August, 2015 Share Posted 2 August, 2015 Most rated underrated player in the league. And strange that nobody's mentioned it before Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monk Posted 2 August, 2015 Share Posted 2 August, 2015 Most undervalued player at times. Especially out of possession, with Vic being our main asset there. Not clinical enough in front of goal. Wasn't good enough Thursday but he'll be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Chalet Posted 2 August, 2015 Share Posted 2 August, 2015 Possibly the most rated underrated player in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 2 August, 2015 Share Posted 2 August, 2015 Of all our underated players I think Davis is the most rated of the underated. IMO of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 2 August, 2015 Share Posted 2 August, 2015 Although he is seldom a " stand-out " player, he does a lot of off-the-ball running and many of his good passes go unnoticed, and 70+ N.I. international caps isn't bad. His lack of goal-scoring does seem to downgrade him in some peoples eyes, but if he were to score 4-5 goals a season, they would say how good he was a good MF-er. Koeman obviously rates him and gave him a contract extension to 2018, by which time he'll be past 30. JWP is his likely replacement (if he can get his act together) He's a real grafter and I expect to see him in the squad for another couple of seasons, though RK may sub. him a bit earlier in games to avoid injuries/wear and tear. He normally does get 5 or so goals, last season was a bit of a freak unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Convict Colony Posted 2 August, 2015 Share Posted 2 August, 2015 I look at other teams attacking midfielders and I see goals (look at Eriksen !!), I think Davis is fantastic until he gets near the opposition box and we can't as a team carry a guy that can't score. I'd be interested to know if we think Juanmi will be slotted into that position sooner rather than later or will he be more of an away AM for the counter attack side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 2 August, 2015 Share Posted 2 August, 2015 Possibly the most rated underrated player in the league. Not really. He's brought up a lot on here but he's never mentioned more broadly than that. He's also ommitted from a lot of people's line up on match build up threads etc yet he'll nearly always play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucks Saint Posted 2 August, 2015 Share Posted 2 August, 2015 The fact that he is very nearly the complete midfielder helps us to keep him; if he was a regular PL scorer too, it might well be dfferent. Very glad to have him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 2 August, 2015 Share Posted 2 August, 2015 The fact that he is very nearly the complete midfielder helps us to keep him; if he was a regular PL scorer too, it might well be dfferent. Very glad to have him. But Davis has qualities which Jaunmi doesn't posses and is selected on that basis. He's always picked by Koeman (and previously Poch) for a reason and that's despite him knowing that he isn't a massive goal threat. We won't be replacing him Juanmi and effectively end up playing a 424. It just won't happen in the PL. Edit: qouted wrong post, should have been convict colony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 2 August, 2015 Share Posted 2 August, 2015 (edited) I look at other teams attacking midfielders and I see goals (look at Eriksen !!), I think Davis is fantastic until he gets near the opposition box and we can't as a team carry a guy that can't score. I'd be interested to know if we think Juanmi will be slotted into that position sooner rather than later or will he be more of an away AM for the counter attack side. What do you mean, can't carry him? He's not our main striker or even Mané or Tadic. Even the idea of an AM is a misnomer under Koeman as he doesn't set us up to be open and adventurous. Davis ticks the right boxes in that regard: first and foremost, he helps us maintain our shape but is sufficiently good on the ball and plays with his head up that we're able to transition quickly from defense to attack. By contrast, a player like Eriksen who's liable to go missing for large periods of a game and offers little defensively, is a poor fit. Until Juanmi shows he can drop back and help the other two CMs and has the IQ to link defense and attack in the same way, he won't be playing in that position, especially away from home. Against Vitesse, the team seemed to lose some cohesion when Juanmi took on that role and Davis moved back. Edited 2 August, 2015 by shurlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Convict Colony Posted 2 August, 2015 Share Posted 2 August, 2015 But Davis has qualities which Jaunmi doesn't posses and is selected on that basis. He's always picked by Koeman (and previously Poch) for a reason and that's despite him knowing that he isn't a massive goal threat. We won't be replacing him Juanmi and effectively end up playing a 424. It just won't happen in the PL. Edit: qouted wrong post, should have been convict colony. Why have we bought Juanmi for then ? I thought he was his long term replacement ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 2 August, 2015 Share Posted 2 August, 2015 Why have we bought Juanmi for then ? I thought he was his long term replacement ? to add competition and something different in the final 3rd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Convict Colony Posted 2 August, 2015 Share Posted 2 August, 2015 What do you mean, can't carry him? He's not our main striker or even Mané or Tadic. Even the idea of an AM is a misnomer under Koeman as he doesn't set us up to be open and adventurous. Davis ticks the right boxes in that regard: first and foremost, he helps us maintain our shape but is sufficiently good on the ball and plays with his head up that we're able to transition quickly from defense to attack. By contrast, a player like Eriksen who's liable to go missing for large periods of a game and offers little defensively, is a poor fit. Until Juanmi shows he can drop back and help the other two CMs and has the IQ to link defense and attack in the same way, he won't playing in that position, especially away from home. Against Vitesse, the team seemed to lose some cohesion when Juanmi took on that position and Davis moved back. All I want him to do is score some goals, Morgan/Vic and Cork scored over 10 between last season. Steve and JWP only got 1 and it was a penalty, I just want some more goals coming from that forward midfield position as if the defensive midfielders can then there is no reason that those guys can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Convict Colony Posted 2 August, 2015 Share Posted 2 August, 2015 to add competition and something different in the final 3rd. So are we saying he is more a Mane back up ? genuinely trying to figure out where the consensus is about where we see his initial positional backup:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 2 August, 2015 Share Posted 2 August, 2015 So are we saying he is more a Mane back up ? genuinely trying to figure out where the consensus is about where we see his initial positional backup:D more like no ones back up. it is up to him to force himself into the side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 2 August, 2015 Share Posted 2 August, 2015 All I want him to do is score some goals, Morgan/Vic and Cork scored over 10 between last season. Steve and JWP only got 1 and it was a penalty, I just want some more goals coming from that forward midfield position as if the defensive midfielders can then there is no reason that those guys can't. Don't disagree -and it's not like he hasn't been getting into good positions (how he didn't score against Spurs at home is still mindboggling). But it's not a reason to drop him. I would be more worried if the other parts of his game started to go, even if he was chipping in with goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pancake Posted 2 August, 2015 Share Posted 2 August, 2015 Why have we bought Juanmi for then ? I thought he was his long term replacement ? Juanmi replaces Djuricic, Elia and I guess Ramirez, and is there to pressure Tadic and/or replace him when fatigued/injured. Just my view of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint97 Posted 2 August, 2015 Share Posted 2 August, 2015 I think he's underrated by fans of other clubs but dreadfully overrated by some of ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_Porter Posted 2 August, 2015 Share Posted 2 August, 2015 Juanmi is just another option and body around the squad, up to him to show his worry but at 22 I doubt he's in a huge rush. I doubt we will see the best of him until next season. Having quality options on the bench will make a huge difference, our bench at times last season was embarrassing. Will also help keep Tadic/Pelle/Mane etc fresh with the extra games. As for Davis he's a vital cog, I like how he's both our most overrated player and also most underrated player. The way we play he's vital IMO, I don't think we could get away with playing four attacker, we need him there offering some balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twiggy Posted 2 August, 2015 Share Posted 2 August, 2015 Juanmi is just another option and body around the squad, up to him to show his worry but at 22 I doubt he's in a huge rush. I doubt we will see the best of him until next season. Having quality options on the bench will make a huge difference, our bench at times last season was embarrassing. Will also help keep Tadic/Pelle/Mane etc fresh with the extra games. As for Davis he's a vital cog, I like how he's both our most overrated player and also most underrated player. The way we play he's vital IMO, I don't think we could get away with playing four attacker, we need him there offering some balance. I'm looking forward to seeing how Juanmi and Long link up, looking good so far - Vitesse e.g. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vivasadio Posted 2 August, 2015 Share Posted 2 August, 2015 Juanmi has looked good whenever he's played, excited to see what he can do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd Posted 2 August, 2015 Share Posted 2 August, 2015 I'm looking forward to seeing how Juanmi and Long link up, looking good so far - Vitesse e.g. I think it'll be more interesting to see how Jay-Rod and Juanmi link up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeShmoe Posted 2 August, 2015 Share Posted 2 August, 2015 If Davis could add goals to his locker he'd be a top drawer PL midfielder - not like he doesn't have chances to either. You look at how many shots he has from outside the box and conversion rate compared to say a Lampard or Gerrard At least he's always involved in the game though with his energy, if only we could get some of that enery/tenacity into JWP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_ed Posted 2 August, 2015 Share Posted 2 August, 2015 Have been a big supporter of him since he joined, but he drop off his level last season IMO. Year before last he was immaculate in possession, however last season was unfortunately littered with a number of sloppy passes and wasteful finishing (Spurs at home summed this up). I hope he can recover his form/confidence as he's a vital cog when on song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 2 August, 2015 Share Posted 2 August, 2015 Have been a big supporter of him since he joined, but he drop off his level last season IMO. Year before last he was immaculate in possession, however last season was unfortunately littered with a number of sloppy passes and wasteful finishing (Spurs at home summed this up). I hope he can recover his form/confidence as he's a vital cog when on song. I would totally agree with this, he did seem to dip a bit last year. I'd have called him a solid 7/10 player most weeks up until last season. Hopefully he can recapture his form again this year. There's a reason why 3 different managers have him in their starting 11's when fit, he's an important cog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 2 August, 2015 Share Posted 2 August, 2015 It seemed to me that he had an attack of the yips and had lost his belief that he was going to score. Once his first goal goes in then the rest will follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 2 August, 2015 Share Posted 2 August, 2015 It seemed to me that he had an attack of the yips and had lost his belief that he was going to score. Once his first goal goes in then the rest will follow. Scored twice in pre-season, and was denied by a good (not outstanding) save on Thursday for what was a very good, curling shot. Was guilty of some poor passes on Thursday (as was nearly everyone) and is often guilty of being caught in possession in dangerous places when he is having to play as defensive MF rather than attacking, but still makes many good openings (often the assist for the assist) and his energy and awareness really make us tick in the centre. When he was missing in some games last season our energy level markedly dropped and we looked ineffective. Sadly a player like Matt Oakley who is not appreciated until he is not around because he is not spectacular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verlaine1979 Posted 2 August, 2015 Share Posted 2 August, 2015 Last season he gave away possession lots in the middle of the field by holding on to it too long looking for the easy pass. He also hasn't scored a league goal in almost a season and a half, and only contributed 2 direct assists last season. I've always said he's decent player and one I'm happy to see on the bench, but his shortcomings as a starting attacker are definitely one of the reasons we've often looked toothless under both Pochettino and Koeman (as many have pointed out, he's been a regular starter for both managers, and both managers' teams have exhibited the same lack of creativity in midfield). I'm sure lots of people love him for his energy and utility, both of which are great attributes - but for me those are the attributes of a useful sub, not a nailed on starter in a team that aspires to top six status and a European presence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintStinger Posted 2 August, 2015 Author Share Posted 2 August, 2015 Some good posts. And, as i expected, most mentioning his score rateas his biggest drawback. Great contribution to the team though. So much energy and seems to be everywhere at times. Picks up a lot of loose balls and strives to go forward. How many times do you see a pass from him go backwards? Or sideways even? And he does have a really good pass on him no doubt. He is always involved in our attack. Would like to see a few heat maps from him, but, like us, he's never the focus of the media either. You can't argue with his stats though, or the amount of managers that include him. As you know Koeman picks him, so did Pochettino and Adkins. And so did O'Leary, O'Neill, Lawrie Sanchez, Coleman, McCoist, and Walter Smith. He played 35 times for club and country in his debut season at 19. How many of our youngsters have managed that even? In his second season he won "Young Player of the Year", "The Fans Player of the Year" and "Player of the Year" all at once. The amount of games he's played after that and still does is impressive for sure. He gets picked for the first team and cup games. How many times do we think to 'rest' another player for a cup game, especially in the early stages? He seems to play them all. And his appearance tally backs it up. His appearances. Includes internationals. 2004-2005 - 35 2005-2006 - 49 2006-2007 - 50 2007-2008 - 58 2008-2009 - 49 2009-2010 - 60 2010-2011 - 58 2011-2012 - 46 2012-2013 - 40 2013-2014 - 47 2014-2015 - 47 Very impressive. I'm just wondering, now we're in Europe, how many he will make this season. If we make the Europa group stages then i'm going to say 53. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 2 August, 2015 Share Posted 2 August, 2015 Scored twice in pre-season, and was denied by a good (not outstanding) save on Thursday for what was a very good, curling shot. Was guilty of some poor passes on Thursday (as was nearly everyone) and is often guilty of being caught in possession in dangerous places when he is having to play as defensive MF rather than attacking, but still makes many good openings (often the assist for the assist) and his energy and awareness really make us tick in the centre. When he was missing in some games last season our energy level markedly dropped and we looked ineffective. Sadly a player like Matt Oakley who is not appreciated until he is not around because he is not spectacular. A fair summary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicestersaint Posted 2 August, 2015 Share Posted 2 August, 2015 He doesn't score nearly enough goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redslo Posted 2 August, 2015 Share Posted 2 August, 2015 Of all our underated players I think Davis is the most rated of the underated. IMO of course. Frankly, as underrated players go, he is overrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissyboy31 Posted 2 August, 2015 Share Posted 2 August, 2015 He doesn't score nearly enough goals. He doesn't but then, neither do any of our midfield players. Important member of the team though, always manages to find space to link defence into attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoozer Posted 2 August, 2015 Share Posted 2 August, 2015 In my opinion he is one of our most underrated players. The kind of player who you notice when he's not playing and find that the team are missing "something". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 2 August, 2015 Share Posted 2 August, 2015 he is probably the most rated, underrated player we have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verlaine1979 Posted 2 August, 2015 Share Posted 2 August, 2015 In my opinion he is one of our most underrated players. The kind of player who you notice when he's not playing and find that the team are missing "something". Funnily enough he was on the field last season for West Brom at home, Man City at home, Burnley at home, Swansea at home, Liverpool at home, West Brom away, Everton away, Stoke, Sunderland & Leicester away and pretty much every other game where as an attacking force we were missing 'something'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 2 August, 2015 Share Posted 2 August, 2015 Funnily enough he was on the field last season for West Brom at home, Man City at home, Burnley at home, Swansea at home, Liverpool at home, West Brom away, Everton away, Stoke, Sunderland & Leicester away and pretty much every other game where as an attacking force we were missing 'something'. Oh FFS give it a rest. You clearly have some sort of issue with him personally, nothing to do with his football. You just sit there waiting for someone to make a post about Davis and then spout your rubbish. You seem obsessed with him, yet you give the impression that you have never actually seen him play or even watched a game of football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 2 August, 2015 Share Posted 2 August, 2015 Oh FFS give it a rest. You clearly have some sort of issue with him personally, nothing to do with his football. You just sit there waiting for someone to make a post about Davis and then spout your rubbish. You seem obsessed with him, yet you give the impression that you have never actually seen him play or even watched a game of football. Yeah, it's very odd I must say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucks Saint Posted 2 August, 2015 Share Posted 2 August, 2015 Oh FFS give it a rest. You clearly have some sort of issue with him personally, nothing to do with his football. You just sit there waiting for someone to make a post about Davis and then spout your rubbish. You seem obsessed with him, yet you give the impression that you have never actually seen him play or even watched a game of football. This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoozer Posted 2 August, 2015 Share Posted 2 August, 2015 Funnily enough he was on the field last season for West Brom at home, Man City at home, Burnley at home, Swansea at home, Liverpool at home, West Brom away, Everton away, Stoke, Sunderland & Leicester away and pretty much every other game where as an attacking force we were missing 'something'. I take it you don't rate him then? live and let live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 3 August, 2015 Share Posted 3 August, 2015 Sadly a player like Matt Oakley who is not appreciated until he is not around because he is not spectacular. thinking back ....I would have said the same about Nick Holmes...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miserableoldgit Posted 3 August, 2015 Share Posted 3 August, 2015 These type of players are vital in a team. He is a worker, selfless, a team player. Watch how good his close control is. He doesn't score goals, because he can't generate the necessary power in his shot. As Lawrie said...."Road Sweepers and violinists".... Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Kint Posted 3 August, 2015 Share Posted 3 August, 2015 Fact is that if you want to play as a no.10 in the PL now you have to have a direct impact on games, which means scoring goals and creating them. Davis does neither. he's a tidy player and is a great squad option to have as one of the two holding players and can also do a job as a no.10 in some of the tougher games we'll have where we want to be more solid, but if he's playing there every game all season we will continue to struggle to break teams down and create enough chances Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verlaine1979 Posted 3 August, 2015 Share Posted 3 August, 2015 Oh FFS give it a rest. You clearly have some sort of issue with him personally, nothing to do with his football. You just sit there waiting for someone to make a post about Davis and then spout your rubbish. You seem obsessed with him, yet you give the impression that you have never actually seen him play or even watched a game of football. It's cute that you think I must have some kind of personal vendetta against him, but I don't. I just think he's hugely overrated on this site, and somebody needs to point that out whenever all the mystifying 'he's so important' rubbish commences. Davis is a decent pro who has had a decent career without ever being exceptional, and certainly without ever coming close to being the most underrated player in the league. Over the last year he's made an increasing number of defensive mistakes, giving the ball away and not covering his man on crosses, so the defensive/hard work arguments that used to prevail when his lack of attacking productivity was raised no longer hold water. In his Premier League career, Davis has produced a goal or assist once every 10.2 games; Gylfi Sigurdsson's average is 2.6. Maybe I'm being unfair in asking that we maybe reach parity with Swansea in our attacking central midfield options, but hey, you've got to dream big, eh? Perhaps your footballing ideal is incredibly hard working British players of limited talent, but if so, you might be supporting the wrong club. After all, our greatest icon was known more for his skill than his graft... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 3 August, 2015 Share Posted 3 August, 2015 It's cute that you think I must have some kind of personal vendetta against him, but I don't. I just think he's hugely overrated on this site, and somebody needs to point that out whenever all the mystifying 'he's so important' rubbish commences. Glad you think its "cute" (are you 12?). Unfortunately this is how your postings on this subject come across, obsessive, vitriolic rubbish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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