Post-Match Reaction: SAINTS 3-0 Vitesse Arnhem - Europa League R3

[dubai_phil]

Bloody loved that whole afternoon/evening.

meeting family then we met mates, then Dutchies, then beers, then the perfect result.

 

Total class above Arnhem, always seemed to have another gear ready up front, second half we just cruised and tbh lost a lot of shape when Classie went off.

 

Thought Cedric had some superb touches and looks to be a much more intelligent player than Clyne with subtle dinks and touches.

 

Just not sure I could stand listening to the Chapel crwod calling out keeper C'mon Stickleback.............

 

We March On.

 

Oh and what was with the ticket office. We had 7 seats in a row, 2 guys sat in the middle of our lot. TO had managed to issue duplicate tickets for the same seats. That is a crock of crap when you've travelled 5,000kms to sit with your mates. (Yes I know it was their ST seats and appreciate that but how can they issue duplicate tickets at all?)

[austsaint]

Ah, you've fallen into that trap of thinking we need to create chances to score goals, we just stop the other team scoring them and wait for things to happen up front. We very rarely go out and overcompensate to score goals, we always sit back and see what comes to us that we can take advantage of. Seems to work well for us. Occasionally (last season at home to West Brom and West Ham, and maybe Swansea) it doesn't unfold and we don't score at home, but usually we get a result without needing to risk conceding - the only time I think we overcommitted last season was at 1-0 down to Man City with them having 10 men, and we got caught twice and lost 3-0.

 

Stekelenburg has been completely flawless for us so far, excellent keeper. Glad to see it's not just me that sees Yoshida as a liability, that clearance to the striker on the edge of the box (when Stekelenburg was yelling for him to put it off the pitch) was his contribution to the opposition cause for this week, the only shot on target Stekelenburg had to deal with, and he does it far too often.

 

Cannot agree with you about Yoshida being a liability - there have been plenty of wayward clearances over the past 12 months or so - Fonte, Morgan, Steve Davis, JWP, Toby being repeat culprits. I thought Yoshida had a solid game otherwise; he obviously should not be a regular starter but his game was sound. Agree about Stekelenburg - he looks a top class keeper.

[GarrettIvo]

Yep, can agree with that. Watching the game back this morning and then the highlights just now (baby had me up at4.30 so had plenty of spare time) Clasie was more involved with runs than I gave him credit for. He was also blasting into the box when Pelle scored and would have scored himself if Pelle had knocked it over to him. That probably would have changed mine and others views and given him a boost. Be interesting next week if we play Vic and Reed and see how that pans out.

 

Not to burst your balloon or anything (I understand trying to focus on anything while dealing with bub) but I'm pretty sure that was Davis steaming in not Clasie.

[Window Cleaner]

Solid performance from Saints, did all they needed to do against an opponent with very little going forward. Dutch football seems to have been milked of all it's better players and as they have less Chelsea rejects just now Vitesse were pretty much confirmation of that. However if they had scored early on as the might well have it may have been different. Clasie was just a passenger again, don't understand that transfer at all, he's completely static in a game.

Edited 31 July, 2015 by Window Cleaner
ll.

[ant]

Pretty special evening, that. Rapidly warming to this competition!

[sadoldgit]

Ah, you've fallen into that trap of thinking we need to create chances to score goals, we just stop the other team scoring them and wait for things to happen up front. We very rarely go out and overcompensate to score goals, we always sit back and see what comes to us that we can take advantage of. Seems to work well for us. Occasionally (last season at home to West Brom and West Ham, and maybe Swansea) it doesn't unfold and we don't score at home, but usually we get a result without needing to risk conceding - the only time I think we overcommitted last season was at 1-0 down to Man City with them having 10 men, and we got caught twice and lost 3-0.

 

Stekelenburg has been completely flawless for us so far, excellent keeper. Glad to see it's not just me that sees Yoshida as a liability, that clearance to the striker on the edge of the box (when Stekelenburg was yelling for him to put it off the pitch) was his contribution to the opposition cause for this week, the only shot on target Stekelenburg had to deal with, and he does it far too often.

 

I am with you on Maya. His mistakes tend to lead to direct goal scoring opportunities. Will always be a no 4 back up CH for me.

[Lighthouse]

Did anyone else see a bat flying around the Northam towards the end of the game? He must have been tripping out on the noise in there.

[The9]

Yep someone on here even thought Targett and Yoshida poor....ignored it was Davis that let the guy get wrong side for their shot on goal but guess that's the old football opinions are like arseholes ....

What I liked about Clasie was that recently I was listening to a footie programme and they had an old player cant remember now who but he was top drawer in his day and he was saying about how good central midfielders should always be able to see their mates shirt number.

Meaning that you are never square, cover each other - there were times when I was watching Clasie last night that he did just that when Vic was maruading across he filled in that space - tracked players runs forcing them across. Same when he did that Big Vic did the same - as I said was disappointed in Clasie passing as expected a few more forward passing but that will come I'm sure.

A good football manager once told me its not just what you do on the ball that counts and think Clasie contributed to sniffing them out a lot.

Vic was my MOTM followed by Mane and Yoshida.

 

Yoshida PASSED IT TO THE BLOODY STRIKER.

[The9]

Did anyone else see a bat flying around the Northam towards the end of the game? He must have been tripping out on the noise in there.

 

Yeah, tried to get some photos but he kept changing direction in a bat-like way.

[Saint_Ash]

Yoshida PASSED IT TO THE BLOODY STRIKER.

To be fair there were quite a few wayward passes from a few players last night. Yoshida was better than Fonte and I'm in the "Yoshi is our weak link" camp.

[Diabolus Ex Machina]

Solid performance from Saints, did all they needed to do against an opponent with very little going forward. Dutch football seems to have been milked of all it's better players and as they have less Chelsea rejects just now Vitesse were pretty much confirmation of that. However if they had scored early on as the might well have it may have been different. Clasie was just a passenger again, don't understand that transfer at all, he's completely static in a game.

 

Clasie has had 1 friendly and now 60 minutes of competitive play as a Southampton player. Way too early to suggest it was a bad transfer. You could also argue that with Wanyama chasing down absolutely everything it was better for Clasie to hang back in the gap behind and hence not get so involved.

 

He did play in a semi-final in the last world cup as well as playing the full game in the third place playoff match against Brazil (Netherlands didn't concede in either game losing in penalties to Argentina and beating Brazil 3-0) and the Feyenoord fans certainly seem to think he's a big loss and i'd rather start forming an opinion on those things as a basis then the minimal time we've seen him in a Saints shirt so far.

[buctootim]

Clasie has had 1 friendly and now 60 minutes of competitive play as a Southampton player. Way too early to suggest it was a bad transfer. You could also argue that with Wanyama chasing down absolutely everything it was better for Clasie to hang back in the gap behind and hence not get so involved.

 

He did play in a semi-final in the last world cup as well as playing the full game in the third place playoff match against Brazil (Netherlands didn't concede in either game losing in penalties to Argentina and beating Brazil 3-0) and the Feyenoord fans certainly seem to think he's a big loss and i'd rather start forming an opinion on those things as a basis then the minimal time we've seen him in a Saints shirt so far.

[sadoldgit]

That would be a disaster. I really wonder if the managment think they can keep pulling rabbits out of hats indefinitely.

 

Players leave clubs or end their careers with every club all the time as well you know Alps. Replacing players is as much a part of football as anything else and it is not just us that has to do it. As has been said dozens of times before, the fact that bigger clubs are after our better players is part of what we have become. If they weren't we would still be in the Championship. Enjoy the ride, don't fret about what may or may not happen next year.

[warsash saint]

Did anyone else see a bat flying around the Northam towards the end of the game? He must have been tripping out on the noise in there.

 

There was a bat flying around the chapel to the delight of all the kids!

[shurlock]

To be fair there were quite a few wayward passes from a few players last night. Yoshida was better than Fonte and I'm in the "Yoshi is our weak link" camp.

 

But some people are just in the "blinkered camp".

[trousers]

Enjoy the ride

 

Carlsberg don't do advice that has a cat in hell's chance of being taken on board, but if they did....

[Window Cleaner]

Clasie has had 1 friendly and now 60 minutes of competitive play as a Southampton player. Way too early to suggest it was a bad transfer. You could also argue that with Wanyama chasing down absolutely everything it was better for Clasie to hang back in the gap behind and hence not get so involved.

 

He did play in a semi-final in the last world cup as well as playing the full game in the third place playoff match against Brazil (Netherlands didn't concede in either game losing in penalties to Argentina and beating Brazil 3-0) and the Feyenoord fans certainly seem to think he's a big loss and i'd rather start forming an opinion on those things as a basis then the minimal time we've seen him in a Saints shirt so far.

 

I said I didn't understand the transfer because for me he's no different to Reed,whose progress he will bar. In fact Reed might be the better player of the two.

[Griffo]

I said I didn't understand the transfer because for me he's no different to Reed,whose progress he will bar. In fact Reed might be the better player of the two.

 

Reed better than Clasie? F*cking hell.

[doddisalegend]

Yoshida PASSED IT TO THE BLOODY STRIKER.

 

 

I guess Yoshida must be your new Lambert...

[sadoldgit]

I was in London last night and went home on a train with several people wearing West Ham shirts, and looking very unhappy.

One of the best train journeys I have had.

[Bucks Saint]

I was in London last night and went home on a train with several people wearing West Ham shirts, and looking very unhappy.

One of the best train journeys I have had.

 

Yep, ditto. Some were trying to work out where the away leg is (middle of nowhere) on the basis that they are going out so might as well make the effort.

[Bucks Saint]

I said I didn't understand the transfer because for me he's no different to Reed,whose progress he will bar. In fact Reed might be the better player of the two.

 

Still judging him (against Reed) based on no time at all in a new team / country

[Give it to Ron]

Yoshida PASSED IT TO THE BLOODY STRIKER.

DAVIS LET HIM RUN BY HIM...easy this shouting bit - Yoshida gives one bad pass and you slaughter him....ignoring all the good interceptions, clearances, reading and support. We have some right blinkered lot pick a player and no matter how good he plays he is crap.

I judge a player on his game merits - thats not blinkered that being fair.

[Saint Garrett]

FWIW, I thought Yoshi had a really good game last night, very likeable player too.

[farawaysaint]

FWIW, I thought Yoshi had a really good game last night, very likeable player too.

 

Yoshi is capable but unspectacular.

[doddisalegend]

Yoshi is capable but unspectacular.

 

What does a spectacular CB look like? I'll take capable for CB and leave the spectacular stuff to the forwards and AMs.

[Lighthouse]

I thought Yoshida was very good last night too. I guess it's the old story of mistakes by defenders and 'keepers being highlighted more than attacking players. Mané for example tried a simple knock and run in the second half but ended up knocking it out for a goal kick. You could latch on to that as evidence of him being a liability but in reality both players were excellent I thought. I even thought his distribution was generally very good. All this playing between the inexperience of Stek, Targett and Clasie.

[Saint Garrett]

What does a spectacular CB look like? I'll take capable for CB and leave the spectacular stuff to the forwards and AMs.

 

Toby was spectacular last season, and Lovren as much of a sh!t season he had last season, he was pretty spectacular for us.

[doddisalegend]

Toby was spectacular last season, and Lovren as much of a sh!t season he had last season, he was pretty spectacular for us.

 

They weren't spectacular they were capable and dependable and kept simple and did they're job very well. Spectacular suggests something out of the ordinary I guess Koeman in is heyday would have been a spectacular CB with a scoring record a striker wouldn't have minded.

[van Hanegem]

Ah, you've fallen into that trap of thinking we need to create chances to score goals, we just stop the other team scoring them and wait for things to happen up front. We very rarely go out and overcompensate to score goals, we always sit back and see what comes to us that we can take advantage of. Seems to work well for us. Occasionally (last season at home to West Brom and West Ham, and maybe Swansea) it doesn't unfold and we don't score at home, but usually we get a result without needing to risk conceding - the only time I think we overcommitted last season was at 1-0 down to Man City with them having 10 men, and we got caught twice and lost 3-0.

 

Stekelenburg has been completely flawless for us so far, excellent keeper. Glad to see it's not just me that sees Yoshida as a liability, that clearance to the striker on the edge of the box (when Stekelenburg was yelling for him to put it off the pitch) was his contribution to the opposition cause for this week, the only shot on target Stekelenburg had to deal with, and he does it far too often.

 

I guess my trap is that I'm being Dutch and like to see some creativity in order to see some entertaining football... It's no comparison off course but maybe you remember "boring Arsenal?" Most fans like to see their team win and don't care how they do it nowadays, I for one love to see a team playing attractive and attacking football when possible.

 

Surely there are lots of games in the PL when it's better for the Saints to wait for things to happen up front and it will pay off in the Uefa League too but sometimes you need to take the opponent "by the balls" (if you know what I mean...) e.g. when the Saints have to equalise, pushing them back to their own box, keeping the ball in possession and then you'll need a more creative player in midfield to open up the opponents defence (like the game against West Ham last season). You may argue that in this case players like Reed, Davis and Wanyama should deliver the ball to the attackers but it would help when there's some input from a midfielder too. It appears that Koeman believes so too and with the signing of Juanmi (who can play also in midfield and has probably the best technical skills of all the players) he has got more options in midfield. However, it would be a good thing when the Saints sign another creative midfielder but that's just my opinion.

Edited 31 July, 2015 by van Hanegem

[The9]

To be fair there were quite a few wayward passes from a few players last night. Yoshida was better than Fonte and I'm in the "Yoshi is our weak link" camp.

 

There were, but only one of them directly led to a shot on goal and it was also completely avoidable.

 

Yoshida was not better than Fonte.

[The9]

I guess my trap is that I'm being Dutch and like to see some creativity in order to see some entertaining football... It's no comparison off course but maybe you remember "boring Arsenal?" Most fans like to see their team win and don't care how they do it nowadays, I for one love to see a team playing attractive and attacking football when possible.

 

Surely there are lots of games in the PL when it's better for the Saints to wait for things to happen up front and it will pay off in the Uefa League too but sometimes you need to take the opponent "by the balls" (if you know what I mean...) e.g. when the Saints have to equalise, pushing them back to their own box, keeping the ball in possession and then you'll need a more creative player in midfield to open up the opponents defence (like the game against West Ham last season). You may argue that in this case players like Reed, Davis and Wanyama should deliver the ball to the attackers but it would help when there's some input from a midfielder too. It appears that Koeman believes so too and with the signing of Juanmi (who can play also in midfield and has probably the best technical skills of all the players) he has got more options in midfield. However, it would be a good thing when the Saints sign another creative midfielder but that's just my opinion.

 

I think the logic is that we can't afford the kind of creative player that wins games (at best we can sign cheaper options to develop into that player, like Mane), so we sign hard-working players with some creativity to contribute at both ends instead.

[The9]

Toby was spectacular last season, and Lovren as much of a sh!t season he had last season, he was pretty spectacular for us.

 

They weren't spectacular they were capable and dependable and kept simple and did they're job very well. Spectacular suggests something out of the ordinary I guess Koeman in is heyday would have been a spectacular CB with a scoring record a striker wouldn't have minded.

 

Alderweireld's ability to read where a ball was dropping, position himself for it and be there and clear it before anyone else reacted was pretty spectacular. Our defensive record was spectacular. Usual problem that defending is best analysed by what doesn't happen rather than what does, and the best defensive performances are the ones where you don't really need to do anything because you're completely in control of all situations.

 

Players who contribute mistakes regularly to that equation are not to be valued.

[The9]

DAVIS LET HIM RUN BY HIM...easy this shouting bit - Yoshida gives one bad pass and you slaughter him....ignoring all the good interceptions, clearances, reading and support. We have some right blinkered lot pick a player and no matter how good he plays he is crap.

I judge a player on his game merits - thats not blinkered that being fair.

 

Yeah, the "one bad pass" which the keeper already told him to put off the pitch as he could see we were outnumbered in our own half, which Yoshida heard, ignored, and played the ball straight to the attacker, leaving Davis having to adjust to an unexpected situation rapidly when there was no need for the threat to have occurred. Unsurprisingly Davis would be off-balance and compromised by it.

 

Had Vitesse scored, they'd have a valuable away goal and 3-1 suddenly takes away much of the advantage we had built up over the match.

 

I have ignored all the "not doing something completely ridiculous and awful" because at the level we're attempting to be at, that stuff is expected.

 

As for the "Fonte was worse", he hoofed one up the pitch at one point, conceding posession in the opposing half. Not really comparable in terms of potential detrimental impact. Equally, I haven't bothered mentioning Yoshida's rubbish pass off the pitch towards Targett when stood in 15 yards of space, because it didn't have much impact on our chances of winning the tie.

[Give it to Ron]

Actually it would have been 2-1 and a different game.....I never mentioned Fonte who was class as usual. Davis, Tadic all made bad passes near our area yet you focus on Yoshida who cleared the ball out by the touchline - it was Davis that was asleep not reacting to the player running beyond him watch it again.

I'll just put you down for having a dislike of him and we know to ignore that in future.

How do you stand on Marmite?

[Saint_Ash]

 

Yoshida was not better than Fonte.

 

Yeah he was.

[SaintTex]

I wasn't able to see the game in it's entirety or watch it live (where you can pick up on things the camera doesn't see), but it seems odd for those to slag off Clasie on one hand and then complain how we lost shape once he went off on the other.

 

I always got the impression that Clasie does a lot of things most casual football fans either can't see or can't appreciate it. At least that was my takeaway from his Feyenoord days.

 

Maybe he had an off game - understandable, as some other have noted the whirlwind of his last month. Or maybe he is doing the little things that in total is a major thing.

 

We don't need two Wanyama's on the pitch. I think over the course of the season we are going to find they really Wanyama and Clasie compliment each other and the roles Koeman expects them to perform will pay dividends to the overall performance of the team.

[Barry the Badger]

I wasn't able to see the game in it's entirety or watch it live (where you can pick up on things the camera doesn't see), but it seems odd for those to slag off Clasie on one hand and then complain how we lost shape once he went off on the other.

 

I always got the impression that Clasie does a lot of things most casual football fans either can't see or can't appreciate it. At least that was my takeaway from his Feyenoord days.

 

Maybe he had an off game - understandable, as some other have noted the whirlwind of his last month. Or maybe he is doing the little things that in total is a major thing.

 

We don't need two Wanyama's on the pitch. I think over the course of the season we are going to find they really Wanyama and Clasie compliment each other and the roles Koeman expects them to perform will pay dividends to the overall performance of the team.

 

He wasn't very influential when we had possession, but when we didn't he was very effective

[Dig Dig]

I wasn't able to see the game in it's entirety or watch it live (where you can pick up on things the camera doesn't see), but it seems odd for those to slag off Clasie on one hand and then complain how we lost shape once he went off on the other.

 

I always got the impression that Clasie does a lot of things most casual football fans either can't see or can't appreciate it. At least that was my takeaway from his Feyenoord days.

 

Maybe he had an off game - understandable, as some other have noted the whirlwind of his last month. Or maybe he is doing the little things that in total is a major thing.

 

We don't need two Wanyama's on the pitch. I think over the course of the season we are going to find they really Wanyama and Clasie compliment each other and the roles Koeman expects them to perform will pay dividends to the overall performance of the team.

 

We lost our shape because we were effectively a 424 after he went off and players like Long aren't great at retaining possession. Clasie was definitely not at the races yesterday which is understandable for now.

[david in sweden]

whilst everyone is raving about Wanyama last night, and Mané 's influence on the game...I noted that I wasn't the only one to comment on Cedric Soares' input.

 

He looked good going forward, and as he was signed as full back, we have yet to see him come up against a " genuine winger ", but I was impressed.

 

Good as he was, I always thought that Nathaniel Clyne seemd a bit unsure on occasions, and to be sure he got skinned in some of his early games.

I did like Clyne. He's certainly one of the best England RB at the moment and in one way was sorry to see him go, but Cedric came over with a different attitude.

He seemed to have the right body language, and his expression - (after Pelle scored) said a lot about his determination and he was brimming over with confidence.

 

Of course, there is a long way to go, but at least he seems to have started well, and if he manages to get one or two goals during the season, he'll be an excellent buy.

[CumbrianSaint]

Sobered up now but still stand by my thoughts in the match thread(but a little bit less with the love!)

[St_Tel49]

I said I didn't understand the transfer because for me he's no different to Reed,whose progress he will bar. In fact Reed might be the better player of the two.

If he is he will get his chance.

[shurlock]

Yeah, the "one bad pass" which the keeper already told him to put off the pitch as he could see we were outnumbered in our own half, which Yoshida heard, ignored, and played the ball straight to the attacker, leaving Davis having to adjust to an unexpected situation rapidly when there was no need for the threat to have occurred. Unsurprisingly Davis would be off-balance and compromised by it.

 

Had Vitesse scored, they'd have a valuable away goal and 3-1 suddenly takes away much of the advantage we had built up over the match.

 

I have ignored all the "not doing something completely ridiculous and awful" because at the level we're attempting to be at, that stuff is expected.

 

As for the "Fonte was worse", he hoofed one up the pitch at one point, conceding posession in the opposing half. Not really comparable in terms of potential detrimental impact. Equally, I haven't bothered mentioning Yoshida's rubbish pass off the pitch towards Targett when stood in 15 yards of space, because it didn't have much impact on our chances of winning the tie.

 

 

 

What game were you watching? It's not like Yoshida hit a ball into the middle, leaving us open. He also took a look before clearing. The ball was cut out near the touchline - an area of the pitch where things are usually dealt with (do you actually believe in analytics or are you happy to reason backwards and fit the data when it suits yoy?). Frankly, Davis (already on a silly yellow iirc) should have been stronger - his challenge had hallmarks of Leicester's opener and Fonte should have been quicker to sense the danger as he got turned way too easily. Numerous things, including Yoshida's initial clearance, can be identified and picked apart; then again, you don't see the whole picture.

[Shroppie]

I hope the confidence In Clasie is justified. I saw him once on TV last season and couldn't understand our interest - he had a very average game, much like last night.

 

And now he's going to be out for a bit with a hamstring.

 

Sent from my D6503 using Tapatalk

Edited 31 July, 2015 by Shroppie

[trousers]

FWIW, I thought Yoshi had a really good game last night, very likeable player too.

 

This

[trousers]

whilst everyone is raving about Wanyama last night, and Mané 's influence on the game...I noted that I wasn't the only one to comment on Cedric Soares' input.

 

He looked good going forward, and as he was signed as full back, we have yet to see him come up against a " genuine winger ", but I was impressed.

 

Good as he was, I always thought that Nathaniel Clyne seemd a bit unsure on occasions, and to be sure he got skinned in some of his early games.

I did like Clyne. He's certainly one of the best England RB at the moment and in one way was sorry to see him go, but Cedric came over with a different attitude.

He seemed to have the right body language, and his expression - (after Pelle scored) said a lot about his determination and he was brimming over with confidence.

 

Of course, there is a long way to go, but at least he seems to have started well, and if he manages to get one or two goals during the season, he'll be an excellent buy.

 

Yep, Cedric could easily turn out to be an upgrade on Clyne based on what I've seen thus far. You gotta hand it to the recruitment department.... a c.£9m profit on a like-for-like replacement...

[shurlock]

Yep, Cedric could easily turn out to be an upgrade on Clyne based on what I've seen thus far. You gotta hand it to the recruitment department.... a c.£9m profit on a like-for-like replacement...

 

He looked very good going forward but I want my fullbacks first and foremost to defend. Lets see how he is positionally and in one-on-ones before banking the profit.

[positivepete]

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/jul/31/maarten-stekelenburg-southampton-holland

 

Stekelenberg very impressed with the attitude at the club.

[St Marco]

Amazed at the amount of people writing off Clasie already.

 

Remember last season how Pelle got slagged off after 1 game and Mane was being compared to Ali Dia?

 

I don't think anyone is writing him off. Don't go all Turkish on us and think because one person says it we all must think it.

 

You can't write anybody off after one game. That would be stupid. I have watched him play on TV a few times and he seems a decent player. I think once he get's up to speed, get's to know his team mates and our system he will come good.

 

However he did have a bit of a shocker last night and its understandable how some would wonder how he will fit in with the big guys of the Premier league due to his size.

 

I think he will get better the more he plays. But if Wanyama and Davis had similar performances as him yesterday we would of struggled. Thankfully Big Vic put in a killer performance and took no prisoners.

 

One or two people saying one thing is not a collective opinion of all of us.

[Andy Durman]

Yoshida is a very good reader of the game and his positioning is mostly excellent.

 

His passing has vastly improved and he is usually first to the ball.

 

This is the problem with Yoshida. Whilst he is first to the ball his clearances with header or kick are not always to safety.

 

That's what he's got to work on. Get it out. Get it safe!!

 

A clearance should not put us back into danger.