The vital CB pairings - who's next ?

[david in sweden]

" Build from the back" has been the byword for managers re-working their teams and a good CB partnership has been the key to success over several decades. In Saints' case " success " often meant " survival " in Div.1 / Prem. times. when we were often " cannon-fodder " for many teams.

 

Older fans (in my generation) will recall that our first sortie into the top tier was 1966-67 when the centrepiece of our defence was Tony Knapp, who in turn was partnered by the "more robust talents" of Cliff Huxford and later David Walker. Two calm, quiet men (off the field) but who rightly earned the title " Iron Man " when on it, and few strikers who had seriously tangled with them - were quite so keen to repeat the experience.

 

The 1970's, legendary figure of John McGrath, whose diet of raw steak and habit of "head-banging the dressing room wall" before coming on the pitch says more about him than a whole chapter in the Book of Heroes. Big John's partnering of Walker, and later the highly versatile Jimmy Gabriel saved the day on many occasions in that period, after we lost them both - relegation was on the horizon.

 

By Cup Final day 1976, most fans were sold on the ideal partnering of Jim Steele and Mel Blyth which proved too good for the Man.U strikers on that day, and

they were Mc Menemys' favourite pairing in his early days. Although Blyth could give as good as he got, and was " the quieter one " in the relationship, Jim Steele's motto was surely ..."None shall pass"..and few ever did, not without a strong tackle or an ankle tap - when the offender least expected it.

 

McMenemy's choice of successors were N.I. captain Chris Nicholl and the elegant "home-grown" asset Malcolm Waldron, and they were first choice for several of our more successful seasons, before the arrival of Mark Wright,who may have looked like a gangly kid when he arrived from Oxford, but developed well enough to become Englands first choice CB by the mid 80's, before making big money moves first to Derby, and later Liverpool.

 

The arrival of Ken Monkou in 1992 signalled the start of better days, and his later partnering with Claus Lundekvam helped steady the team at a time when goals were hard to come by and the team was constantly changing. I always felt Lundekvam was underrated by some fans, but for better or worse ....he was the mainstay of the defence and with over 400 games to his credit is in the top dozen all-time Saints' appearances, and by far the most by any foreign player.

It's fair to say that Lundekvam's pairing with Dean Richards and later Michael Svensson did much to show that their " tough guy " image always looked good /better when they had good support behind them.

 

At this point, it should be said that in all these partnership above, there was usually a " tough guy " and " a quiet man ".

" A sweeper " to use McMeneny's favourite phrase (tidying up behind the last defender). At the height of our 80's success, Lawrie Mac. was one of the League's most successful manager's using this strategy. Interestingly, with the new popularity of a 3-5-2 formation, there is always one man " tidying up at the back ".

 

More recently we see that (aside from goalie Kelvin Davis), Jose Fonte is the longest-serving player and has become the mainstay of our defence in the successful seasons since our dismal days in League 1. His partnering, first with Radhi Jaidi, and later Dan Seabourne did much to tighten up at the back when we were playing so well at the lower level, and Jose is truly worthy of wearing the captains' armband.

 

Of course, "Promotion" has a way of " finding out " players, but Jose has remained constant in what has become a period of monumental change since 2009.

Jos Hooiveld seemed to have a " love-hate" relationship with some fans, but I think we can be truly proud of his performances in our Championship season, even if he was a bit " in and out " in later years. Certainly, his pairing with Jose that season, gave me a great deal of satisfaction to watch.

 

But once again, it has been the quiet man who has helped the image of the tough CB, as with Dejan Lovren who had a great season with Saints, suddenly had quite a few nightmare games at Liverpool - when he realised that there wasn't someone behind him -" watching his back ".

 

I await with keen interest to see how Toby Alderweireld's performances for his new club will be, and how long it will take for him to "bond" with his new pals.

There is no doubt he was really excellent last season, and I'm not alone in being sorry that he didn't return, but I wonder how much of those classy displays were his natural talent..... or how good he might have been " made to look " by his partnering with Jose?. (Time will tell).

 

Jose Fonte will be 32 at Christmas, and although he is contracted until 2017, he may turn out to be the sort of player, who like " old wine " improves with age.

 

Now Gardos is out of the picture, and a total reliance on Maya Yoshida, (who IMHO is a better player than he's had the chance to show) one wonders WHO ?.... will the next "partnership" be - especially if theirs does not "gel ".

Will we be chopping and changing, just at a time when we stand on the threshold of possible European competition - not just this season, but in the future?.

 

The choice of our new CB signing(s) will be vital, now more than ever before.

Edited 25 July, 2015 by david in sweden

[Wade Garrett]

Good post.

[Chocolate Box]

That brought back a few good memories.

[Ohio Saint]

Jose Fonte will be 32 at Christmas, and although he is contracted until 2017, he may turn out to be the sort of player, who like " old wine " improves with age.

 

Like all of us, I hope he has an extended career with us. More importantly though, and as you have pointed out with other examples, he is a prime example of how a player can improve and up his game if you just stick around and build your talents within a stable environment. I'm hoping that at least a couple of our new signings in other departments will have the sense to realise this.

[saint lard]

" Build from the back" has been the byword for managers re-working their teams and a good CB partnership has been the key to success over several decades. In Saints' case " success " often meant " survival " in Div.1 / Prem. times. when we were often " cannon-fodder " for many teams.

 

Older fans (in my generation) will recall that our first sortie into the top tier was 1966-67 when the centrepiece of our defence was Tony Knapp, who in turn was partnered by the "more robust talents" of Cliff Huxford and later David Walker. Two calm, quiet men (off the field) but who rightly earned the title " Iron Man " when on it, and few strikers who had seriously tangled with them - were quite so keen to repeat the experience.

 

The 1970's, legendary figure of John McGrath, whose diet of raw steak and habit of "head-banging the dressing room wall" before coming on the pitch says more about him than a whole chapter in the Book of Heroes. Big John's partnering of Walker, and later the highly versatile Jimmy Gabriel saved the day on many occasions in that period, after we lost them both - relegation was on the horizon.

 

By Cup Final day 1976, most fans were sold on the ideal partnering of Jim Steele and Mel Blyth which proved too good for the Man.U strikers on that day, and

they were Mc Menemys' favourite pairing in his early days. Although Blyth could give as good as he got, and was " the quieter one " in the relationship, Jim Steele's motto was surely ..."None shall pass"..and few ever did, not without a strong tackle or an ankle tap - when the offender least expected it.

 

McMenemy's choice of successors were N.I. captain Chris Nicholl and the elegant "home-grown" asset Malcolm Waldron, and they were first choice for several of our more successful seasons, before the arrival of Mark Wright,who may have looked like a gangly kid when he arrived from Oxford, but developed well enough to become Englands first choice CB by the mid 80's, before making big money moves first to Derby, and later Liverpool.

 

The arrival of Ken Monkou in 1992 signalled the start of better days, and his later partnering with Claus Lundekvam helped steady the team at a time when goals were hard to come by and the team was constantly changing. I always felt Lundekvam was underrated by some fans, but for better or worse ....he was the mainstay of the defence and with over 400 games to his credit is in the top dozen all-time Saints' appearances, and by far the most by any foreign player.

It's fair to say that Lundekvam's pairing with Dean Richards and later Michael Svensson did much to show that their " tough guy " image always looked good /better when they had good support behind them.

 

At this point, it should be said that in all these partnership above, there was usually a " tough guy " and " a quiet man ".

" A sweeper " to use McMeneny's favourite phrase (tidying up behind the last defender). At the height of our 80's success, Lawrie Mac. was one of the League's most successful manager's using this strategy. Interestingly, with the new popularity of a 3-5-2 formation, there is always one man " tidying up at the back ".

 

More recently we see that (aside from goalie Kelvin Davis), Jose Fonte is the longest-serving player and has become the mainstay of our defence in the successful seasons since our dismal days in League 1. His partnering, first with Radhi Jaidi, and later Dan Seabourne did much to tighten up at the back when we were playing so well at the lower level, and Jose is truly worthy of wearing the captains' armband.

 

Of course, "Promotion" has a way of " finding out " players, but Jose has remained constant in what has become a period of monumental change since 2009.

Jos Hooiveld seemed to have a " love-hate" relationship with some fans, but I think we can be truly proud of his performances in our Championship season, even if he was a bit " in and out " in later years. Certainly, his pairing with Jose that season, gave me a great deal of satisfaction to watch.

 

But once again, it has been the quiet man who has helped the image of the tough CB, as with Dejan Lovren who had a great season with Saints, suddenly had quite a few nightmare games at Liverpool - when he realised that there wasn't someone behind him -" watching his back ".

 

I await with keen interest to see how Toby Alderweireld's performances for his new club will be, and how long it will take for him to "bond" with his new pals.

There is no doubt he was really excellent last season, and I'm not alone in being sorry that he didn't return, but I wonder how much of those classy displays were his natural talent..... or how good he might have been " made to look " by his partnering with Jose?. (Time will tell).

 

Jose Fonte will be 32 at Christmas, and although he is contracted until 2017, he may turn out to be the sort of player, who like " old wine " improves with age.

 

Now Gardos is out of the picture, and a total reliance on Maya Yoshida, (who IMHO is a better player than he's had the chance to show) one wonders WHO ?.... will the next "partnership" be - especially if theirs does not "gel ".

Will we be chopping and changing, just at a time when we stand on the threshold of possible European competition - not just this season, but in the future?.

 

The choice of our new CB signing(s) will be vital, now more than ever before.

 

 

Excellent post.

I have recently had discussions with fellow football fans of various clubs......and thought did Liverpool and now possibly Tottenham buy the wrong CB from SFC.

Now I know longevity remaining in the game plays a part.....but Fonte has been immense.....he won his plaudits at Palace...he's won our hearts at Saints.

What a bargain he was.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[rpb]

David in Sweden - really good stuff!

 

You forgot Dave Watson though...

[Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd]

Good post. Not sure who we'll get. I guess it'll end up being a surprise like Toby was last season.

My main concern is that Fonte can be a bit late with some of his challenges. He got lucky last season as there were a couple of challenges that on another day he would've walked for. He got lucky, all it'll take is for that luck not to be on his side and he'll be off. It's not only about finding a suitable partner for Fonte. It's about having cover for him should he get suspended or injured.

[Bermuda Saint]

yes very nice to see Fonte get his praises and accolades after years of being not good enough for SFC by many a football watcher. Jos was better, lovren was better, Toby was better etc. yet the rock turned out to be the one our coaches and managers saw as the key man and stuck with from the beginning. Way back to "Pardew the screw" to "Danny knock you on your fanny", the one the club has stood bye was Fonte. Now he has the captaincy and a true leader of the team. But at the end of his career. We must be thinking of a successor. Is he on the bench? Mya, Gardos? in the academy, Stevens , Turnbull?

 

SFC have a delema that keeps getting worse each year. We are unable to hold onto our CB that do well for us (all players not just cb). A problem we have done very well with and have a good handle on. Knowing how to actually keep it sustainable will be the ultimate test. We have Fonte for a max of 2 years before he will be to old to keep up physically, logically thinking, then we must get a cb that will take over for him as the leader of the back line. Will be able to get top notch CB that will build a career with us and not be swayed by the big boys. The reality is if we stay in the top 7 we will be raided every year. Loyalty is a rare thing in the PL.

 

So we have VVD as a strong rumor, excellent! looks the right fit! like what I read and what he has done. The RK factor must be exploited, his CB knowledge, previous players and connection are a gold mine to be used as long as he is here. I welcome the forging of ties with the EDV, great footballing nation, know for producing technical players for the world market.

 

SVB (Van Beek) is another I hope we can get next year ( another year of first team with FEY) , along side VVD, the dutch will be strong in us....luke....we may have the future Dutch Intl CB pairing. If the both do well can you see them staying...NO....So we will continue to look for a CB. Stevens Or Turnbull may be the next time we see a CB commit their career to us so we have a few years to bridge till then.

 

But I am opomitic SFC will get it right , just like they got the FONTE ting right so many years ago! March on Saints !

[david in sweden]

David in Sweden - really good stuff!

 

You forgot Dave Watson though...

 

 

I did think about him....(and one or two others) but it seems that he was with Saints such a short period and (unbelievably) was 33 when he came to us.

 

He was still playing for England at 35, but the upcoming Waldron was worth his selection and Watson was keen to keep his England place (went to Stoke afterwards).

[astrasri]

I don't agree that League 1 was "dismal days", dropping into League with minus 10 points was dismal, but once the season got under way I thought it was exciting (ok, frustrating when the early results didn't go our way). Watching the arrival of decent players including Jose to take the team up the league and onto Wembley don't forget - that wasn't dismal.

I stand behind the Northam goal and my particular memory of the CB's was the vision of Radhi collecting the ball in our penalty area (Chapel End - 1st half of course) and starting to run with it down the centre. the initial space he had allowed him to pick up speed and by the time he was through the centre circle none of the opposing players wanted to get near him such was his momentum! obviously nothing came from this run, I don't remember how the move broke down, just the vision of this man-mountain thundering towards goal at full flight will stay with me always.

You're right, Jose will be one of our all time greats.

[kwsaint]

I am old enough to remember Gabriel, Steele et al. But for me the best centre back pairing I have seen was Lundekvam with Michael Svensson. Svensson's injury was the main reason we got relegated in 2005. His replacement was Jacobsen, who was abject.

[david in sweden]

I am old enough to remember Gabriel, Steele et al.

But for me the best centre back pairing I have seen was Lundekvam with Michael Svensson. Svensson's injury was the main reason we got relegated in 2005. His replacement was Jacobsen, who was abject.

 

Think they'd rate pretty highly with me, too.

 

I wasn't seeking to compare them, and there was a lot of "dross " in between those mentioned, (they were over 20 years apart, and the game was very different).

 

In the era of Gabriel and McGrath, the team was struggling to avoid relegation almost every season - despite Ron Davies' goal spree.

 

The Cup final side of 76 was still a Div.2 (Championship level side),whereas the Lundekvam / Richards / Svensson era was some of the best...and at Prem. level.

[david in sweden]

I don't agree that League 1 was "dismal days", dropping into League with minus 10 points was dismal, but once the season got under way I thought it was exciting (ok, frustrating when the early results didn't go our way). Watching the arrival of decent players including Jose to take the team up the league and onto Wembley don't forget - that wasn't dismal.

I stand behind the Northam goal and my particular memory of the CB's was the vision of Radhi collecting the ball in our penalty area (Chapel End - 1st half of course) and starting to run with it down the centre. the initial space he had allowed him to pick up speed and by the time he was through the centre circle none of the opposing players wanted to get near him such was his momentum! obviously nothing came from this run, I don't remember how the move broke down, just the vision of this man-mountain thundering towards goal at full flight will stay with me always.

You're right, Jose will be one of our all time greats.

 

 

I meant " dismal " in respect to the level at L1, when you consider than many fans had lived through 27 years in the top tier. L1 was pretty turgid.

 

Of course, as time went by it got better ..and with Rickie Lambert - scoring for fun - it was memorable. It was a long time since a Saints' striker had 30+ goals a season.

Edited 25 July, 2015 by david in sweden

[Norm]

Thanks David, I enjoyed reading your post.

[Dark Munster]

I am old enough to remember Gabriel, Steele et al. But for me the best centre back pairing I have seen was Lundekvam with Michael Svensson. Svensson's injury was the main reason we got relegated in 2005. His replacement was Jacobsen, who was abject.

His partner Calum ****ing Davenport was even more abject. In fact he took abjectivity to a whole new level.

[St. Neil]

You forgot Darren Powell and Tomasz Hajto.

[St Chalet]

Alan 'Gordon' Bennett, comfortably the worst debut since Ali Dyer.

[david in sweden]

You forgot Darren Powell and Tomasz Hajto.

 

No!.... I didn't even remember them, which must say something about the impact they had on my memory.....but then again the Alzheimers helped, too

[sandwichsaint]

I think Lawrie Mac mainly linked the word sweeper with road (and violins) but point taken. How could you miss Reuben Agboola? One of the most accomplished ball playing defenders you could wish to see. A couple of near misses too, Ricahard Hall and Fitz Hall both showed great potential and if things had worked out differently CHDAJFU. I'll get absolute pelters for this but i though Chris Perry conducted himself with great professionalism for us, his legs had gone but he was a class act at that level, a poor man's Dave Watson if you will.

 

My top 5 Saints CHs I've seen, in no particular order: Fonte, Watson, Deano, Agboola, McGrath.

Bench, Killer, Docker, Blythe, Steele, Chris Nichol.

[david in sweden]

I think Lawrie Mac mainly linked the word sweeper with road (and violins) but point taken. How could you miss Reuben Agboola? One of the most accomplished ball playing defenders you could wish to see. A couple of near misses too, Richard Hall and Fitz Hall both showed great potential and if things had worked out differently CHDAJFU. I'll get absolute pelters for this but i though Chris Perry conducted himself with great professionalism for us, his legs had gone but he was a class act at that level, a poor man's Dave Watson if you will.

 

My top 5 Saints CHs I've seen, in no particular order: Fonte, Watson, Deano, Agboola, McGrath.

Bench, Killer, Docker, Blythe, Steele, Chris Nichol.

 

 

well to be fair sandwich saint;

there were a few others I mulled over, but my main point was the success of CB partnerships, and those I mentioned were the best examples that came to mind.

[John B]

Overall I think Mark Wright was the best he was a really good footballer John McGrath however was my favorite but the best performance I ever saw was Mel Blyth at Wembley in 1976 he was immense in such an important game

[Cabrone]

Fonte will go down as one of our best ever signings in my book, an absolute legend that cost a million, dropped a league to join us and has stuck around from the bottom of league 1 to 7th in the prem - all the time improving as he went.

 

What I'd give for us to find another Killer to partner him, that would be an immense partnership.

 

My fav CBs since the late 80s:

Fonte

Killer

Deano

Claus

Toby

Lovren

Ken Monkou

Andrew Davies

Jos

The rest

[david in sweden]

Fonte will go down as one of our best ever signings in my book, an absolute legend that cost a million, dropped a league to join us and has stuck around from the bottom of league 1 to 7th in the prem - all the time improving as he went.

 

What I'd give for us to find another Killer to partner him, that would be an immense partnership.

 

think we're on the same page on that one Cabrone...At his best Svensson was truly outstanding, but interesting that most of that time - Claus was his CB partner.