All things Labour Party

[whelk]

Did Tim and Egg agree with Corbyn not accepting intelligence on the Salisbury poisonings? The gullible fools make it all so easy.

[egg]

Did Tim and Egg agree with Corbyn not accepting intelligence on the Salisbury poisonings? The gullible fools make it all so easy.

 

As before, I have no interest in discussing all manner of geo politics. You may nothing better to do on a Sunday, but I do.

[Batman]

Do I have to go go there to understand how to view a map and understand that Iran is on one side of the ship? Jesus.

 

are you suggesting that Iran would have had to fire a missile/projectile from their coast?

how would that work ?

[buctootim]

Did Tim and Egg agree with Corbyn not accepting intelligence on the Salisbury poisonings? The gullible fools make it all so easy.

 

Well done, a totally irrelevant strawman. Haven't seen one as desperately contrived as that in a while.

 

Are you saying the US congress and just about everybody else is wrong and Pompeo, a self professed liar is right?

[Lighthouse]

You are being exceptionally naive. Trump - pushed by hawks Pompeo and Bolton is not just defying international opinion but also the will of his own congress

 

[video=youtube;DPt-zXn05ac]

 

I've never said I trust any of those men, I don't get your point or how it is relevant to what I said.

[buctootim]

Fair summary here

 

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/politics/2019/05/16/angus-king-donald-trump-iran-middle-east-sot-vpx-newday.cnn

Edited 16 June, 2019 by buctootim

[buctootim]

I've never said I trust any of those men, I don't get your point or how it is relevant to what I said.

 

Well its a self confessed liar that is making the accusations which you are uncritically lapping up. As to the Iranians wish to wipe out half the world as you claimed, again simply not true. They are Twelver muslims. They believe the Mahdi and Jesus will come to save the world after the apocalypse and wipe out the evil that caused it.

[Lighthouse]

Well its a self confessed liar that is making the accusations which you are uncritically lapping up. As to the Iranians wish to wipe out half the world as you claimed, again simply not true. They are Twelver muslims. They believe the Mahdi and Jesus will come to save the world after the apocalypse and wipe out the evil that caused it.

 

Well, that sounds perfectly sensible to me. Also I didn't say World, I said West.

 

Iran are test firing cruise missiles with, "Israel must be wiped off the face of the earth," written on the side, trying to develop nuclear weapons and your response is some 30 second video of Pompeo saying, "we lied, we cheated, we stole."

[buctootim]

Well, that sounds perfectly sensible to me. Also I didn't say World, I said West.

 

Iran are test firing cruise missiles with, "Israel must be wiped off the face of the earth," written on the side, trying to develop nuclear weapons and your response is some 30 second video of Pompeo saying, "we lied, we cheated, we stole."

 

Wow. You must have believed the £350m bus claim too. What the previous president actually said was a quote from the long dead Ayaytollah Khomenei "this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time". Sure they want regime change in Israel, I do too. That is very different to wiping the country off the map. Who told you the Iranians want nuclear weapons?

Edited 16 June, 2019 by buctootim

[Batman]

the Iranians game or aspiration is to control the straits/region. that leads to all sorts of chaos for all of us, whether you like it or not.

Having the ability to produce nuclear weapons (different argument here) is about influence in the region.

 

However, I find it utterly laughable that stating it could not be Iran behind the attack due to the damage being caused of the STBD side (side not pointing to mainland Iran) of the vessel.

[Lighthouse]

Wow. You must have believed the £350m bus claim too. What the previous president actually said was a quote from the long dead Ayaytollah Khomenei "this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time". Sure they want regime change in Israel, I do too. That is very different to wiping the country off the map. Who told you the Iranians want nuclear weapons?

 

Yeah, cool, except I wasn't talking about that. I was talking about the missile with, "Israel must be wiped off the face of the earth," written on the side, in Hebrew.

 

You think a country that says stuff like this is developing nuclear material for peaceful purposes; and I'm the naive one?!

[buctootim]

the Iranians game or aspiration is to control the straits/region. that leads to all sorts of chaos for all of us, whether you like it or not.

Having the ability to produce nuclear weapons (different argument here) is about influence in the region.

 

 

nope. They want to sell and export their oil free from sanctions.

 

However, I find it utterly laughable that stating it could not be Iran behind the attack due to the damage being caused of the STBD side (side not pointing to mainland Iran) of the vessel.

 

Ooh another strawman. Twice in one day. You took one tiny piece of the puzzle and tried to pretend thats all the evidence there was go you. You must have convinced millions.

 

...

[Batman]

...

 

Do you believe that damage to the non-iran facing side of the vessel stands up as evidence?

[buctootim]

You think a country that says stuff like this is developing nuclear material for peaceful purposes; and I'm the naive one?!

 

Well China, Russia, UK, Germany, France and the US created an agreement with strict verification which ensured they couldnt develop nuclear weapon so no-one had to rely on words. Trump unilaterally suspended it and threatened to sanction anybody who didnt agree.

I wonder why that is?

 

Pompeo, Bolton and Mattis want regime change in Iran, pure and simple - and Trump isnt bright enough to stand up to them. If they get their way there will be thousands dead, tens of billions spent, an Iranian economy destroyed and its just as likely as not the new regime will be more unstable than the current one. We never learn, same mistakes over and over every ten years or so.

 

The Saudis are far worse than Iran. They are directly responsible for the export of Salafism, the creation of Al Queda and IS and millions of deaths, including thousands of Westerners. Anything Iran has done pales into insignificance by comparison. Yet Saudi are treated as our buddies and Iran are the great threat.

Edited 16 June, 2019 by buctootim

[Batman]

The Saudis are far worse than Iran. They are directly responsible for the export of Salafism, the creation of Al Queda and IS and millions of deaths, including thousands of Westerners. Anything Iran has done pales into insignificance by comparison. Yet Saudi are treated as our buddies and Iran are the great threat.

 

don't recall anyone here or in the wider public space backing that up. Politicians, yes but as we see with BREXIT, they barely speak for the majority anyway.

however, needs must I guess and the cheapest way for oil. it's a horrible game!

Edited 16 June, 2019 by Batman

[Cabbage_Face]

You mean the mines that were never there according to the ships crew?

 

Yawn.

 

I bet you think we didn’t land on the moon also.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Batman]

You mean the mines that were never there according to the ships crew?

 

I would be absolutely stunned if what, the 30-odd crew members of the ship of that enormous size had 24 hour / total watch of the ship inside/out.

Many of the crew were probably sought from the lowest possible bidder for the work.

 

absolutely impossible job.

[buctootim]

I would be absolutely stunned if what, the 30-odd crew members of the ship of that enormous size had 24 hour / total watch of the ship inside/out.

Many of the crew were probably sought from the lowest possible bidder for the work.

 

absolutely impossible job.

 

Maybe so. But it doesnt change the fact they reported that flying objects caused the fire / damage.

[Batman]

Maybe so. But it doesnt change the fact they reported that flying objects caused the fire / damage.

 

That may be true, but you would have to question their expertise on the matter? Did they have military/civilian ships protection force on board?

did the person who said this have the extensive knowledge of launched/guided weapons?

was it a coincidence?

 

if something was 'flying' it must have had a source.

this area easily brings the most surveillance compared to anywhere else on earth.

 

Anything launched will have had telemetry data emitting. Any such fire control type of emission will alarm like a Christmas tree on all warships in the region, military sites and on other forms of data collection activities.

 

as said, the whole region is monitored like you would never believe and not just by the UK/US. Not seeing much in the form of video/evidence that this was a 'launched/aerial' attack.

Edited 16 June, 2019 by Batman

[Cabbage_Face]

That may be true, but you would have to question their expertise on the matter? Did they have military/civilian ships protection force on board?

did the person who said this have the extensive knowledge of launched/guided weapons?

was it a coincidence?

 

if something was 'flying' it must have had a source.

this area is easily brings the most surveillance compared to anywhere else on earth.

 

Anything launched will have had telemetry data emitting. Any such fire control type of emission will alarm like a Christmas tree on all warships in the region, military sites and on other forms of data collection activities.

 

as said, the whole region is monitored like you would never believe and not just by the UK/US. Not seeing much in the form of video/evidence that this was a 'launched/aerial' attack.

 

Yeah, but it was a false flag, so none of these facts matter.

 

One crew member said he didn’t see anything, so all the worlds highly trained military and special forces are incorrect.

 

Also some bloke on YouTube posted a video with red circles on various parts of a video, Mi5 have nothing on him.

 

Every time, something happens in the world, falseflag. It’s actually boring now.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[egg]

Well, that sounds perfectly sensible to me. Also I didn't say World, I said West.

 

Iran are test firing cruise missiles with, "Israel must be wiped off the face of the earth," written on the side, trying to develop nuclear weapons and your response is some 30 second video of Pompeo saying, "we lied, we cheated, we stole."

Do you honestly believe that any country would use a nuclear weapon against a country who has nuclear weapons of its own, or close allies who do? To do so would spell self destruction. Countries only have them as a deterrent, although the most vocal opponent to other countries having nuclear weapons is the most financially and militarily strong nation of course who know a thing or two about using such weapons.

[Batman]

Do you honestly believe that any country would use a nuclear weapon against a country who has nuclear weapons of its own, or close allies who do? To do so would spell self destruction. Countries only have them as a deterrent, although the most vocal opponent to other countries having nuclear weapons is the most financially and militarily strong nation of course who know a thing or two about using such weapons.

 

it might be less about the State of Iran using a nuclear weapon but more so the absolute lunatics who would be near that capability by default. All in the name of Allah of course.

[egg]

this area easily brings the most surveillance compared to anywhere else on earth.

 

Anything launched will have had telemetry data emitting. Any such fire control type of emission will alarm like a Christmas tree on all warships in the region, military sites and on other forms of data collection activities.

 

as said, the whole region is monitored like you would never believe and not just by the UK/US. Not seeing much in the form of video/evidence that this was a 'launched/aerial' attack.

 

If that's the case, and as we are told that there's video evidence (Hunt) and Iran are denying any involvement on the world stage, I'm struggling to understand why the video evidence is not being shown. After all they've shown the video of the boat apparently removing a mine. If the Iranian's have done, show the world and show them up.

[aintforever]

Evidence like videos of Iranian forces removing explosives?

 

Oh yeah, let’s ignore that and just call everything a “false flag”

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I’ve seen a video that is conclusive proof that a bunch of blokes on a speedboat did something to the side of a boat, where is the video that proves it is Iranian forces?

[egg]

it might be less about the State of Iran using a nuclear weapon but more so the absolute lunatics who would be near that capability by default. All in the name of Allah of course.

 

Can you translate? I get the wish to prevent Iran from having nuclear weapons so they can be pushed around/attacked without fear of equivalent armed response, but what of you mean?

[Lighthouse]

Can you translate? I get the wish to prevent Iran from having nuclear weapons so they can be pushed around/attacked without fear of equivalent armed response, but what of you mean?

 

I sleep soundly at night knowing that whatever I think of USA, Russia and China, they aren't about to nuke each other off the face of the planet.

 

On the other hand I think a country which believes that...

 

the Mahdi and Jesus will come to save the world after the apocalypse and wipe out the evil that caused it.

 

MIGHT be tempted to fire one off at Israel.

[buctootim]

That may be true, but you would have to question their expertise on the matter? Did they have military/civilian ships protection force on board?

did the person who said this have the extensive knowledge of launched/guided weapons?

was it a coincidence?

 

if something was 'flying' it must have had a source.

this area easily brings the most surveillance compared to anywhere else on earth.

 

Anything launched will have had telemetry data emitting. Any such fire control type of emission will alarm like a Christmas tree on all warships in the region, military sites and on other forms of data collection activities.

 

as said, the whole region is monitored like you would never believe and not just by the UK/US. Not seeing much in the form of video/evidence that this was a 'launched/aerial' attack.

 

Even if Iran did it its a relatively minor detail in much wider chain of events started by Trump repudiating the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action agreed by his predecessor, four nuclear powers + Germany. Trump is trying to strangle the life out of Iran in order to get regime change. If you're happy to be played so that the US can start another cluster**** in the middle east, then go ahead. How did Iraq (twice), Libya and Syria work out? As I posted earlier the interview with Senator King, a member of the US Intelligence Committee is a reasonably fair summary.

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/05/16/politics/angus-king-us-intelligence-iran-cnntv/index.html

Edited 16 June, 2019 by buctootim

[buctootim]

I sleep soundly at night knowing that whatever I think of USA, Russia and China, they aren't about to nuke each other off the face of the planet.

 

On the other hand I think a country which believes that...

 

 

 

MIGHT be tempted to fire one off at Israel.

 

So where is your concern about Trump repudiating the agreement made that impossible? Where is your similar concern about lack of action against Pakistan in case they 'fire one off' against India?

Edited 16 June, 2019 by buctootim

[Batman]

Even if Iran did it its a relatively minor detail in much wider chain of events started by Trump repudiating the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action agreed by his predecessor, four nuclear powers + Germany. Trump is trying to strangle the life out of Iran in order to get regime change. If you're happy to be played so that the US can start another cluster**** in the middle east, then go ahead. How did Iraq (twice), Libya and Syria work out? As I posted earlier the interview with Senator King, a member of the US Intelligence Committee is a reasonably fair summary.

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/05/16/politics/angus-king-us-intelligence-iran-cnntv/index.html

 

which is a different point to whether Iran/Iranian forces did this or if there was a missile attack - even on the non-iran facing side of the ship. Or not.

 

as for your point about being happy to be played. Lets say for a moment that what you suggest IS happening. I gather from your rant here you are not happy to be 'played'. Can I ask, what are you going to do about it?

[egg]

I sleep soundly at night knowing that whatever I think of USA, Russia and China, they aren't about to nuke each other off the face of the planet.

 

On the other hand I think a country which believes that...

 

 

 

MIGHT be tempted to fire one off at Israel.

 

What's the basis of your fear? Does the leader of such a nation hate his people so much that he'd expose them to US (and/or Israeli) nuclear retaliation? Be realistic, no nation has ever done that, and the main nation dictating who can and cannot have nuclear weapons is the one country who has used two, and are controlled by an idiot.

[buctootim]

Can I ask, what are you going to do about it?

 

Reinstate the JCPA in conjunction with China, Russia, France and Germany. Keep our end of the bargain and make sure Iran does keep theirs.

[Batman]

What's the basis of your fear? Does the leader of such a nation hate his people so much that he'd expose them to US (and/or Israeli) nuclear retaliation? Be realistic, no nation has ever done that, and the main nation dictating who can and cannot have nuclear weapons is the one country who has used two, and are controlled by an idiot.

 

you could argue that fewer 'foreigners' have been killed by the US military under Trump's watch compared to many others.

[egg]

you could argue that fewer 'foreigners' have been killed by the US military under Trump's watch compared to many others.

You're talking countries using nuclear weapons. Don't change your own subject when asked about it!!

[Batman]

You're talking countries using nuclear weapons. Don't change your own subject when asked about it!!

 

not my subject, I never started this thread nor were you responding to me above in post #4380 (lighthouse it was I believe)

[Lighthouse]

So where is your concern about Trump repudiating the agreement made that impossible? Where is your similar concern about lack of action against Pakistan in case they 'fire one off' against India?

 

As far as I am aware, India/Pakistan is more of a territorial dispute which can be moderated through patient negotiation and diplomacy.

 

I don’t support Trump or his decision to withdraw from the agreement but I doubt we wants to start a war in the region either. Quite simply, he wants to re-impose restrictions on a belligerent regime which threatens US interests in the area, both Arab and Israeli.

 

Iran may act like they are being bullied in the playground but if they didn’t keep running up to the hardest kid in school and kicking him in the nads, it might aid their situation somewhat.

[buctootim]

What's the basis of your fear? Does the leader of such a nation hate his people so much that he'd expose them to US (and/or Israeli) nuclear retaliation? Be realistic, no nation has ever done that, and the main nation dictating who can and cannot have nuclear weapons is the one country who has used two, and are controlled by an idiot.

 

Exactly. Whereas the measured Trump has said this "To Iranian President Rouhani: NEVER, EVER THREATEN THE UNITED STATES AGAIN OR YOU WILL SUFFER CONSEQUENCES THE LIKES OF WHICH FEW THROUGHOUT HISTORY HAVE EVER SUFFERED BEFORE," and this "Do not fight the US, that will be the official end of Iran"

[egg]

not my subject, I never started this thread nor were you responding to me above (lighthouse it was I believe)

Its still your point that apparently a nation Iran or an unspecified other I think you wrote) may wish to attack Iran with a nuclear weapon which they may or may not have and/or want. I'm asking a) the basis of that fear, and b) why any nation or its leader would do that knowing the inevitable response and the damage to its nation and its people. The correct answer is a) none and b) they wouldn't but I'm intrigued to know your opinion...

[Batman]

Its still your point that apparently a nation Iran or an unspecified other I think you wrote) may wish to attack Iran with a nuclear weapon which they may or may not have and/or want. I'm asking a) the basis of that fear, and b) why any nation or its leader would do that knowing the inevitable response and the damage to its nation and its people. The correct answer is a) none and b) they wouldn't but I'm intrigued to know your opinion...

 

you what?

[egg]

you what?

Its simple enough, or are you acting daft as its obvious that there's no credible reply?

[Batman]

Its simple enough, or are you acting daft as its obvious that there's no credible reply?

 

no idea if you are on a phone but it looks a mess on a computer

and because of that, unsure of the point (or what ever it is) you are trying to make

[egg]

no idea if you are on a phone but it looks a mess on a computer

and because of that, unsure of the point (or what ever it is) you are trying to make

 

I'll take that as you have no credible point to make. If you do, let me know the basis of your fear that a country may attack Israel with a nuclear weapon, and why a nation or its leader would expose its people to the inevitable retaliation.

[Batman]

I'll take that as you have no credible point to make. If you do, let me know the basis of your fear that a country may attack Israel with a nuclear weapon, and why a nation or its leader would expose its people to the inevitable retaliation.

 

I have never said anything about a country attacking Israel or the fear of in this discussion, as far as I know.

 

you have lost me

[badgerx16]

So to summarise; Jeremy Corbyn has launched a limpet mine against a tanker, from the non-Iranian side of the gulf of Hormuz, and is threatening a nuclear strike against an unspecified country.

[buctootim]

So to summarise; Jeremy Corbyn has launched a limpet mine against a tanker, from the non-Iranian side of the gulf of Hormuz, and is threatening a nuclear strike against an unspecified country.

 

You'd think so from the level of debate

[Cabbage_Face]

I’ve seen a video that is conclusive proof that a bunch of blokes on a speedboat did something to the side of a boat, where is the video that proves it is Iranian forces?

 

Oh, you’ve cracked the case.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[egg]

I have never said anything about a country attacking Israel or the fear of in this discussion, as far as I know.

 

you have lost me

 

No wonder - it was lighthouse! Apologies.

[egg]

So to summarise; Jeremy Corbyn has launched a limpet mine against a tanker, from the non-Iranian side of the gulf of Hormuz, and is threatening a nuclear strike against an unspecified country.

 

That's about it! On that note I'm getting back to fathers day sweets and cake.

[whelk]

Can’t believe this of our great ally Iran. Still can’t blame them stocking up as those warmonger yanks are just spoiling for a fight.

 

Iran nuclear deal: Enriched uranium limit will be breached on 27 June https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-48661843

[aintforever]

Can’t blame a country for wanting a nuclear deterrent.

[Lighthouse]

Can’t blame a country for wanting a nuclear deterrent.

 

I can't blame a five year old for wanting three pints of chocolate ice cream. Doesn't mean they should have it.