hypochondriac Posted 20 February, 2019 Posted 20 February, 2019 Amazing that two grown men can put aside their differences to agree they'd boff the same woman...True dat.
Tamesaint Posted 20 February, 2019 Posted 20 February, 2019 She can’t compete with these fit proper Tories. Such a diverse bunch The definition of Gammon. I reckon that Lord Pony is the one at the front on the extreme left of the picture.
Lord Duckhunter Posted 20 February, 2019 Posted 20 February, 2019 We’re getting our party back, hoping Grieve, Boles, Morgan, Lee and other sopping wet pinkos follow suit.
Lord Duckhunter Posted 20 February, 2019 Posted 20 February, 2019 Fit and a proper Tory Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
whelk Posted 20 February, 2019 Posted 20 February, 2019 Fit and a proper Tory Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk She might be attracted to you
Lord Duckhunter Posted 20 February, 2019 Posted 20 February, 2019 I might support them just because of Heidi Allen. Could you trust her though, bit of a liar our Heidi. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Tamesaint Posted 20 February, 2019 Posted 20 February, 2019 This Independent Group getting together has certainly rattled Lord Pony. The b ugger keeps posting on this thread. He is like Wes Tender on speed.
hypochondriac Posted 21 February, 2019 Posted 21 February, 2019 Could you trust her though, bit of a liar our Heidi. Sent from my iPad using TapatalkPhil either has a massive dong or he's absolutely minted.
CB Fry Posted 21 February, 2019 Posted 21 February, 2019 Could you trust her though, bit of a liar our Heidi. Sent from my iPad using TapatalkI can't really see where she has lied there. Although in fairness I was knocking one out while I was reading it so I might have skipped a few sentences.
egg Posted 21 February, 2019 Posted 21 February, 2019 This apparent labour anti semitism. I've just seen the tweet from 2012 that led to Derek Hatton being suspended. In a tweet in 2012, he urged "Jewish people with any sense of humanity" to condemn Israel's "ruthless murdering". In what way is that anti semitic? His issue is with the Israeli government actions, not the Jewish people, their faith, and he doesn't question the right of Israel to exist. Am I missing something? Sure he's a militant cock, but based on that tweet he's not an anti semite.
Sheaf Saint Posted 21 February, 2019 Posted 21 February, 2019 This apparent labour anti semitism. I've just seen the tweet from 2012 that led to Derek Hatton being suspended. In a tweet in 2012, he urged "Jewish people with any sense of humanity" to condemn Israel's "ruthless murdering". In what way is that anti semitic? His issue is with the Israeli government actions, not the Jewish people, their faith, and he doesn't question the right of Israel to exist. Am I missing something? Sure he's a militant cock, but based on that tweet he's not an anti semite.
CB Fry Posted 21 February, 2019 Posted 21 February, 2019 This apparent labour anti semitism. I've just seen the tweet from 2012 that led to Derek Hatton being suspended. In a tweet in 2012, he urged "Jewish people with any sense of humanity" to condemn Israel's "ruthless murdering". In what way is that anti semitic? His issue is with the Israeli government actions, not the Jewish people, their faith, and he doesn't question the right of Israel to exist. Am I missing something? Sure he's a militant cock, but based on that tweet he's not an anti semite. Why does a Jew born and bred in, say, Hatton's Liverpool have to take responsibility for a sovereign nation state they have never lived in or have any interest in?
egg Posted 21 February, 2019 Posted 21 February, 2019 Why does a Jew born and bred in, say, Hatton's Liverpool have to take responsibility for a sovereign nation state they have never lived in or have any interest in? That's a different issue and you ignore mine. My question (with emphasis added so you don't miss it) is how is expressing and urging criticism of a GOVERNMENT and its policies amount to racism against a RACE OF PEOPLE? I believe the government of Chad are a disgrace, ditto Venezuela - does that make me racist against black Africans and south/central Americans? By this new interpretation of antisemitism it must, there's no difference.
buctootim Posted 21 February, 2019 Posted 21 February, 2019 That's a different issue and you ignore mine. My question (with emphasis added so you don't miss it) is how is expressing and urging criticism of a GOVERNMENT and its policies amount to racism against a RACE OF PEOPLE? I believe the government of Chad are a disgrace, ditto Venezuela - does that make me racist against black Africans and south/central Americans? By this new interpretation of antisemitism it must, there's no difference. Tbf you’ve missed the point. How would you feel if Hatton impugned your humanity unless you spoke out against American bombing in Syria?
egg Posted 21 February, 2019 Posted 21 February, 2019 Tbf you’ve missed the point. How would you feel if Hatton impugned your humanity unless you spoke out against American bombing in Syria? Hatton, did not impugn humanity or indeed even vaguely criticise any race or religion in that tweet. His tweet related to a government.
buctootim Posted 21 February, 2019 Posted 21 February, 2019 Hatton, did not impugn humanity or indeed even vaguely criticise any race or religion in that tweet. His tweet related to a government. Which part of this didn’t you get? "Jewish people with any sense of humanity"
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 21 February, 2019 Posted 21 February, 2019 Hatton, did not impugn humanity or indeed even vaguely criticise any race or religion in that tweet. His tweet related to a government. He's says that if you are a Jew that does not condemn Israel (even though you may not have any idea on Israel, Palestine etc) you are devoid of humanity.
egg Posted 21 February, 2019 Posted 21 February, 2019 Which part of this didn’t you get? "Jewish people with any sense of humanity" Yep, got that. Which part of his tweet condemns the Jewish faith or its people, i.e. which part is antisemitic?
egg Posted 21 February, 2019 Posted 21 February, 2019 He's says that if you are a Jew that does not condemn Israel (even though you may not have any idea on Israel, Palestine etc) you are devoid of humanity. That's a very stretched and liberal interpretation of what he actually said.
doddisalegend Posted 21 February, 2019 Posted 21 February, 2019 Hatton, did not impugn humanity or indeed even vaguely criticise any race or religion in that tweet. His tweet related to a government.Why does he have to mention Jewish people specifically? He could of just said People with any sense of humanity" to condemn Israel's "ruthless murdering". It's along the same lines as people lumping all Muslims together because of the actions of Islamic state. Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk
Verbal Posted 21 February, 2019 Posted 21 February, 2019 What's egg got on his face? Anyway, here's a 360-degree example of how toxic antisemitism is in Labour, and how Labour demonstrates that institutional Jew-hating is firmly rooted in the party. This audio... https://news.sky.com/story/sir-duncan-michael-labour-members-jewish-slur-not-deemed-antisemitic-by-party-11638591?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter ...records Wimbledon CLP member Sir (!) Duncan Michael saying, then deny saying, that the 'Jewish community plans to attack our party.' It also records the very audibly shocked reactions of CLP members in the room, including a Corbynista Jewish Voice for Labour member. So quite an uncontroversial instance - a slam dunk - of antisemitism, which was deplored at the time by those who heard it, many of whom reported it, expecting censure at the very least. But when the incident was adjudicated by the Labour party it ruled: 'the Labour party does not believe this is an incident of antisemitism and will not be taken further.' Do you get this one, egg? Or are we going to have to go through dozens of posts to point out where the actual antisemitism is?
egg Posted 21 February, 2019 Posted 21 February, 2019 What's egg got on his face? Anyway, here's a 360-degree example of how toxic antisemitism is in Labour, and how Labour demonstrates that institutional Jew-hating is firmly rooted in the party. This audio... https://news.sky.com/story/sir-duncan-michael-labour-members-jewish-slur-not-deemed-antisemitic-by-party-11638591?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter ...records Wimbledon CLP member Sir (!) Duncan Michael saying, then deny saying, that the 'Jewish community plans to attack our party.' It also records the very audibly shocked reactions of CLP members in the room, including a Corbynista Jewish Voice for Labour member. So quite an uncontroversial instance - a slam dunk - of antisemitism, which was deplored at the time by those who heard it, many of whom reported it, expecting censure at the very least. But when the incident was adjudicated by the Labour party it ruled: 'the Labour party does not believe this is an incident of antisemitism and will not be taken further.' Do you get this one, egg? Or are we going to have to go through dozens of posts to point out where the actual antisemitism is? What's that got to do with the Derek Hatton' tweet?! My question related to that only. Re' dozens of posts', I'd appreciate just one to explain why criticism of the Israeli government is apparently antisemitic - that was my sole point.
Verbal Posted 21 February, 2019 Posted 21 February, 2019 What's that got to do with the Derek Hatton' tweet?! My question related to that only. Re' dozens of posts', I'd appreciate just one to explain why criticism of the Israeli government is apparently antisemitic - that was my sole point. Ok you're just trolling now. You can't be this stupid. Do you get the Wimbledon case or not?
egg Posted 21 February, 2019 Posted 21 February, 2019 Ok you're just trolling now. You can't be this stupid. Do you get the Wimbledon case or not? I am not trolling, andI have better things to do than join in a wider debate. Not one repsonse has addressed the question of why criticism of the Israeli government and its actions is being deemed as antisemitic. Odd.
hypochondriac Posted 21 February, 2019 Posted 21 February, 2019 I am not trolling, andI have better things to do than join in a wider debate. Not one repsonse has addressed the question of why criticism of the Israeli government and its actions is being deemed as antisemitic. Odd.Because it's suggesting that all Jews who disagree with his tweet lack humanity.
egg Posted 21 February, 2019 Posted 21 February, 2019 Because it's suggesting that all Jews who disagree with his tweet lack humanity. Yes or no, is expressing a negative view of the Israeli government and its behaviour antisemitic? That's my only issue.
hypochondriac Posted 21 February, 2019 Posted 21 February, 2019 Yes or no, is expressing a negative view of the Israeli government and its behaviour antisemitic? That's my only issue.No but that wasn't your only question. You were asking why the tweet could be seen as antisemitic and that's the answer.
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 21 February, 2019 Posted 21 February, 2019 Yes or no, is expressing a negative view of the Israeli government and its behaviour antisemitic? That's my only issue. No, its not. However, singling out Jews as the people who should condemn it, irrespective of anything, probably is.
egg Posted 21 February, 2019 Posted 21 February, 2019 No, its not. However, singling out Jews as the people who should condemn it, irrespective of anything, probably is. We agree on the fundamental issue that criticising Israel is not in itself antisemitic. We disagree on the singling out which I see as stupid, misguided and inappropriate, but not antisemitic.
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 21 February, 2019 Posted 21 February, 2019 We agree on the fundamental issue that criticising Israel is not in itself antisemitic. We disagree on the singling out which I see as stupid, misguided and inappropriate, but not antisemitic. Probably worth being removed from the party for saying something inappropriate in relation to Jews though, don't you think? Especially when the party is trying to get away institutional antisemitism?
Lord Duckhunter Posted 21 February, 2019 Posted 21 February, 2019 (edited) The only thing Degsy has done wrong is embarrass the party with a series of “I’m back” interviews on the day the Blair Switch project was launched. If he said “any chicks that don’t condemn Mrs T’s economic policy, clearly lack humanity”, would that be sexist? Of course not. What’s happened is that silly fool Gardiner and other virtue signallers realised it was a bad look to have him back, so made a fuss. Their attitude is to ignore the anti Semites running the show but show they won’t tolerate it by suspending a 71 year old has been. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Edited 21 February, 2019 by Lord Duckhunter
egg Posted 21 February, 2019 Posted 21 February, 2019 Probably worth being removed from the party for saying something inappropriate in relation to Jews though, don't you think? Especially when the party is trying to get away institutional antisemitism? As I say, it was stupid and misguided, but we need to get away from this perception and belief that speaking out against the Israeli government is antisemitic. I deplore the behaviour of the Israeli government, its occupation of the West Bank, settlements, blockade of Gaza etc etc but I have no issue with Jews, Judaism and agree that there should be an Israeli state. If I were a labour member (I'm far from it) my views would probably deem me antisemitic. Hatton seemingly had that view and yes he was wrong to seek to get support for his views from Jewish people and use the words that he did, but fundamentally his principle of criticising Israel was not antisemitic, although the delivery was wrong.
hypochondriac Posted 21 February, 2019 Posted 21 February, 2019 "we need to get away from this perception" you're the only one under this delusion in this thread! Given the current climate, of course there will be sensitivities about this particular subject. It's not a surprise that he's been suspended and to be honest he should never have been readmitted.
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 21 February, 2019 Posted 21 February, 2019 As I say, it was stupid and misguided, but we need to get away from this perception and belief that speaking out against the Israeli government is antisemitic. I deplore the behaviour of the Israeli government, its occupation of the West Bank, settlements, blockade of Gaza etc etc but I have no issue with Jews, Judaism and agree that there should be an Israeli state. If I were a labour member (I'm far from it) my views would probably deem me antisemitic. Hatton seemingly had that view and yes he was wrong to seek to get support for his views from Jewish people and use the words that he did, but fundamentally his principle of criticising Israel was not antisemitic, although the delivery was wrong. I'm not saying that speaking out against the Israeli government is antisemitic - in fact I don't think anyone on here is.
egg Posted 21 February, 2019 Posted 21 February, 2019 "we need to get away from this perception" you're the only one under this delusion in this thread! Given the current climate, of course there will be sensitivities about this particular subject. It's not a surprise that he's been suspended and to be honest he should never have been readmitted. It may come as a shock to you, but there's a world, and opinions, outside this forum. I agree though that he should never have been readmitted - aside of his comments form 2012, he wouldn't have progressed the labour party.
hypochondriac Posted 21 February, 2019 Posted 21 February, 2019 It may come as a shock to you, but there's a world, and opinions, outside this forum. I agree though that he should never have been readmitted - aside of his comments form 2012, he wouldn't have progressed the labour party.I'm not sure why you're making this point about antisemitism and Israel on this forum then when it's clear that no one on here has that view.
Jonnyboy Posted 21 February, 2019 Posted 21 February, 2019 Because it's suggesting that all Jews who disagree with his tweet lack humanity. Not its not, its saying in his opinion Jews with humanity should criticise Israel for slaughtering Palestinian civilians.
hypochondriac Posted 21 February, 2019 Posted 21 February, 2019 (edited) Not its not, its saying in his opinion Jews with humanity should criticise Israel for slaughtering Palestinian civilians.Yes and those Jews who do not agree with his characterisation of what is happening lack humanity. Edited 21 February, 2019 by hypochondriac
Verbal Posted 21 February, 2019 Posted 21 February, 2019 Not its not, its saying in his opinion Jews with humanity should criticise Israel for slaughtering Palestinian civilians. Yes, fanboy, exactly. It's setting a 'humanity test' for Jews. Why don't you reflect on that for a minute? Let's see if you can see the problem with it.
doddisalegend Posted 22 February, 2019 Posted 22 February, 2019 I see another one has quit the Labour party though he is not joining the others. Labour MP quits 'broken' party over Corbyn https://a.msn.com/r/2/BBTVZQY?m=en-gb&referrerID=InAppShare Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk
Batman Posted 22 February, 2019 Posted 22 February, 2019 Is jezza still PM in waiting? Bexy, johnnyboy?
Sheaf Saint Posted 22 February, 2019 Posted 22 February, 2019 Yes, fanboy, exactly. It's setting a 'humanity test' for Jews. Why don't you reflect on that for a minute? Let's see if you can see the problem with it. How is that any different from politicians making public calls for the entire Islamic community to speak out against and/or take responsibility for the actions of ISIS or Al-Qaeda? And how many of them have ever been suspended from their parties as a result?
Sheaf Saint Posted 22 February, 2019 Posted 22 February, 2019 Is jezza still PM in waiting? Bexy, johnnyboy? Why do you keep singling me out for comment? I have made it clear time and time again I'm not a huge fan of his, but you just can't take it in can you. As far as you're concerned I'm a 'lefty' therefore I must be a Corbynista. Just another example of your constant strawmanning.
CB Fry Posted 22 February, 2019 Posted 22 February, 2019 How is that any different from politicians making public calls for the entire Islamic community to speak out against and/or take responsibility for the actions of ISIS or Al-Qaeda? It is the same thing. I think both stances are abhorrent. Are you saying both are fine?
hypochondriac Posted 22 February, 2019 Posted 22 February, 2019 Why do you keep singling me out for comment? I have made it clear time and time again I'm not a huge fan of his, but you just can't take it in can you. As far as you're concerned I'm a 'lefty' therefore I must be a Corbynista. Just another example of your constant strawmanning.Because you are transparently a huge labour fanboy. Your posting history is clear evidence of this.
Lord Duckhunter Posted 22 February, 2019 Posted 22 February, 2019 I see another one has quit the Labour party though he is not joining the others. He’s not welcome as he’s not an Euro extremist. Despite being a Remainer he respects the referendum result and wants us to leave. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Sheaf Saint Posted 22 February, 2019 Posted 22 February, 2019 Because you are transparently a huge labour fanboy. Your posting history is clear evidence of this. Thus proving that you, like Batman, only see what you want to see in my posts. I'm really f*cking bored of having to explain it now so I'm not going to bother again.
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