All things Labour Party

[aintforever]

Because some people seem to think that the current leader of the opposition is perfection in human form and is inspiring the nation and riding a wave of unstoppable popularity into Downing Street.

 

Wow, that is SWF at it’s finest. Something no one on here has said ever. Even most Labour supporters on here think Corbyn is a ****. ****ing weirdo.

[CB Fry]

Wow, that is SWF at it’s finest. Something no one on here has said ever. Even most Labour supporters on here think Corbyn is a ****. ****ing weirdo.

 

No one anywhere thinks Corbyn is an inspiring leader? No one thinks he is on the march to Downing Street to be the next Prime Minister? No one thinks he can do no wrong?

 

You don't watch much news or read much news then. Or read pro-Corbyn media like The Canary.

 

Odd really as you went out of your way to challenge my contention that he will never be Prime Minister. Changed your mind now then? Well done you if so.

[Batman]

 

 

 

I don't, of course. I think he's a fu cking useless old cu nt.

 

Who tolerates a huge amount of hate from his own supporters.

 

New, kind, gentle, respectful era of politics!!!

[aintforever]

No one anywhere thinks Corbyn is an inspiring leader? No one thinks he is on the march to Downing Street to be the next Prime Minister? No one thinks he can do no wrong?

 

You don't watch much news or read much news then. Or read pro-Corbyn media like The Canary.

 

Odd really as you went out of your way to challenge my contention that he will never be Prime Minister. Changed your mind now then? Well done you if so.

 

I’ve always said it would take something very major to happen for him to have a chance of being PM and I still think that’s the case. As long as most of the people in the country are doing OK and have money in their pockets someone as extreme as him will never stand a chance.

 

As much as I dislike this anti-semitism witch hunt by the media the one good thing to come out of it may be the end of Corbyn and a return to a more electable opposition to challenge the Tories but I doubt it.

[hypochondriac]

I’ve always said it would take something very major to happen for him to have a chance of being PM and I still think that’s the case. As long as most of the people in the country are doing OK and have money in their pockets someone as extreme as him will never stand a chance.

 

As much as I dislike this anti-semitism witch hunt by the media the one good thing to come out of it may be the end of Corbyn and a return to a more electable opposition to challenge the Tories but I doubt it.

I can't see how. Now that the hard left have taken over he will simply be replaced by a similar mouthpiece. The only way we will get a more moderate opposition will be if the party implodes, splits or actually gets in power and is subsequently rejects a few years down the line.

[aintforever]

I can't see how. Now that the hard left have taken over he will simply be replaced by a similar mouthpiece. The only way we will get a more moderate opposition will be if the party implodes, splits or actually gets in power and is subsequently rejects a few years down the line.

 

Possibly, it depends what process they have for choosing a leader. You would hope once he goes they would return to some sort of sanity.

[Sheaf Saint]

Who tolerates a huge amount of hate from his own supporters.

 

New, kind, gentle, respectful era of politics!!!

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/03/jeremy-corbyn-antisemitism-labour-party

 

Denying the continuing problem doesn’t help. Labour staff have seen examples of Holocaust denial, crude stereotypes of Jewish bankers, conspiracy theories blaming 9/11 on Israel, and even one individual who appeared to believe that Hitler had been misunderstood.

 

People holding those views have no place in the Labour party. They may be few: the number of cases over the past three years represents less than 0.1 per cent of Labour’s membership of more than half a million. But one is too many.

 

Our party must never be a home for such people, and never will be. People who dish out antisemitic poison need to understand: you do not do it in my name. You are not my supporters and have no place in our movement.

[Batman]

One thing these labour supports do NoT do, is hate stuff. Nope, they are here for a new kind, gentle era of politics

[hypochondriac]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/03/jeremy-corbyn-antisemitism-labour-party

Words are cheap and it's his previous action or lack of action that he is judged by.

[Sheaf Saint]

Words are cheap and it's his previous action or lack of action that he is judged by.

 

https://jewishnews.timesofisrael.com/opinion-ihra-doesnt-go-far-enough-labours-new-anti-semitism-guidelines-are-more-comprehensive/

 

You mean like asking the new General Secretary of the party to "make strengthening and speeding up procedures for dealing with anti-Semitism [her] first priority"?

[hypochondriac]

https://jewishnews.timesofisrael.com/opinion-ihra-doesnt-go-far-enough-labours-new-anti-semitism-guidelines-are-more-comprehensive/

 

You mean like asking the new General Secretary of the party to "make strengthening and speeding up procedures for dealing with anti-Semitism [her] first priority"?

 

No I meant things like organising an event on Holocaust memorial day that led to Israelis being compared to the nazis and failing to adopt the definition of anti semitism that pretty much everyone else has been adopted for fear that corbyn himself would fall afoul of the definition.

[aintforever]

No I meant things like organising an event on Holocaust memorial day that led to Israelis being compared to the nazis.

 

... by a Jewish holocaust survivor.

 

Do you seriously think he is anti-Semitic? Maybe he hates himself?

[Lord Duckhunter]

Dame Margaret Hodge has known Corbyn over 30 years, she’s closer to him & the party than any member of this forum and she thinks he’s antisemitic and racist . Can you imagine the lefties reaction if Hestletine said the same thing about May.

 

It’s pretty unprecedented, a senior respected party figure calling out the leader of the party to his face.

 

 

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[Jonnyboy]

No I meant things like organising an event on Holocaust memorial day that led to Israelis being compared to the nazis and failing to adopt the definition of anti semitism that pretty much everyone else has been adopted for fear that corbyn himself would fall afoul of the definition.

 

You absolute moron.

[hypochondriac]

You absolute moron.

An utterly brilliant riposte there and yet another example of the kind and tolerant left with their gentler brand of politics.

 

Here is that insufferable leftie James O'brien outlining the problem quite nicely. If this issue can get me to agree with someone like James then that really should tell you something. No doubt your next response will be to shout about morons again or something equally asinine

 

https://youtu.be/ky-t3y2y6J4

[Jonnyboy]

Thing is the "kinder, gentler" effort that was once mentioned went out the window long ago as it takes all parties to get on board with it. What's next in the repetitive slurs? Mention Dianne Abbot's maths again?

[hypochondriac]

Thing is the "kinder, gentler" effort that was once mentioned went out the window long ago as it takes all parties to get on board with it. What's next in the repetitive slurs? Mention Dianne Abbot's maths again?

Oh but I thought the hard left were better than that? I didn't realise that corbynistas are only kinder and gentler when it suits them and only if their political opponents are kind otherwise everything is fair game. So much for principles then.

 

Oh and Diane Abbott's complete incompetence is worth repeating wherever possible. Let's not forget that she'd potentially have one of the most powerful jobs in the country and the fact she can't tell her a*se from her elbow is highly relevant.

Edited 5 August, 2018 by hypochondriac

[shurlock]

Oh but I thought the hard left were better than that? I didn't realise that corbynistas are only kinder and gentler when it suits them and only if their political opponents are kind otherwise everything is fair game. So much for principles then.

 

Oh and Diane Abbott's complete incompetence is worth repeating wherever possible. Let's not forget that she'd potentially have one of the most powerful jobs in the country and the fact she can't tell her a*se from her elbow is highly relevant.

 

She maybe incompetent and arrogant (the worst combo) but some of the abuse she’s received has been disgusting.

[hypochondriac]

She maybe incompetent and arrogant (the worst combo) but some of the abuse she’s received has been disgusting.

Can't disagree there. One big problem though is she seems to equate all valid criticism and ridicule she receives with the very worst racist abuse she unfortunately suffers.

[hypochondriac]

Here's just a small list of the issues with labour at the moment

 

[Batman]

She maybe incompetent and arrogant (the worst combo) but some of the abuse she’s received has been disgusting.

 

She is a bit of a casual racist herself.

[Jonnyboy]

Can't disagree there. One big problem though is she seems to equate all valid criticism and ridicule she receives with the very worst racist abuse she unfortunately suffers.

 

Everyone knows Pepe is an enabler of racist abuse.

[hypochondriac]

Everyone knows Pepe is an enabler of racist abuse.

Bizarre non sequitur but if you have to write something incorrect I'll resist the urge to refer to you as a moron. Maybe best to stick to the subject of labour? I know you far left types love a deflection.

[hypochondriac]

She is a bit of a casual racist herself.

And that is undeniably true also.

[Lord Duckhunter]

If she was white, she’d have been hounded out of politics by people like her, years ago. Can you imagine the outcry if Liz Truss said white mums will go to the wall for their kids.

 

 

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[hypochondriac]

If she was white, she’d have been hounded out of politics by people like her, years ago. Can you imagine the outcry if Liz Truss said white mums will go to the wall for their kids.

 

 

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Or if she'd said "black people love to play divide and rule."

[Jonnyboy]

Bizarre non sequitur but if you have to write something incorrect I'll resist the urge to refer to you as a moron. Maybe best to stick to the subject of labour? I know you far left types love a deflection.

 

Your lot smashing up a bookshop this week. Still we do r need anymore kindness (or experts):

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/aug/05/far-right-protesters-ransack-socialist-bookshop-bookmarks-in-london

[Lord Duckhunter]

At one time people were prepared to give him the benefit of doubt, believing that he was a bumbling old Grandad who saw the good in everyone. It’s becoming clearer and clearer that it’s something more sinister than that. This was a quote from the Board of deputies of the Jewish leadership council

 

“Jeremy Corbyn’s office asked us whether it would be insensitive to release a statement on Friday afternoon, before the Jewish Sabbath. We said it would be an act of tremendous bad faith. He clearly ignored us".

 

I’m sure his defenders will claim that he can release statements whenever he wants, they probably wheel out a holocaust survivor who’ll say he wanted to read Jezza‘s words of wisdom on the Sabbath. But ask yourselves this, if he was really trying to build bridges, wouldn’t it have been better to have listened to them. Or failing that, not even ask if it would be insensitive. To ask, be told it would be, but go ahead anyway is just provocative.

 

 

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Edited 5 August, 2018 by Lord Duckhunter

[hypochondriac]

Your lot smashing up a bookshop this week. Still we do r need anymore kindness (or experts):

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/aug/05/far-right-protesters-ransack-socialist-bookshop-bookmarks-in-london

I am nothing to do with the far right. I condemn random acts of violence from anyone and particularly the far right if what the paper is reporting is true. Sadly the same cannot be said of you when violence emanates from the far left. Edited 5 August, 2018 by hypochondriac

[shurlock]

At one time people were prepared to give him the benefit of doubt, believing that he was a bumbling old Grandad who saw the good in everyone. It’s becoming clearer and clearer that it’s something more sinister than that. This was a quote from the Board of deputies of the Jewish leadership council

 

“Jeremy Corbyn’s office asked us whether it would be insensitive to release a statement on Friday afternoon, before the Jewish Sabbath. We said it would be an act of tremendous bad faith. He clearly ignored us".

 

I’m sure his defenders will claim that he can release statements whenever he wants, they probably wheel out a holocaust survivor who’ll say he wanted to read Jezza‘s words of wisdom on the Sabbath. But ask yourselves this, if he was really trying to build bridges, wouldn’t it have been better to have listened to them. Or failing that, not even ask if it would be insensitive. To ask, be told it would be, but go ahead anyway is just provocative.

 

 

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Ringo, i didn't realise you were so passionate about antisemitism.

[Jonnyboy]

I am nothing to do with the far right. I condemn random acts of violence from anyone and particularly the far right if what the paper is reporting is true. Sadly the same cannot be said of you when violence emanates from the far left.

 

Written like a press office release from Breitbart.

[hypochondriac]

Written like a press office release from Breitbart.

Continue with your baseless smears if you like. I'm happy to disavow violence and condemn extremists whilst you refuse to condemn violent attacks from the hard left because you agree with them politically. I would say you're in the minority but sadly it's an all too common trait found in corbynistas. That will have to change if you hold out any hope of enticing middle England to vote Labour.

[Jonnyboy]

Continue with your baseless smears if you like. I'm happy to disavow violence and condemn extremists whilst you refuse to condemn violent attacks from the hard left because you agree with them politically. I would say you're in the minority but sadly it's an all too common trait found in corbynistas. That will have to change if you hold out any hope of enticing middle England to vote Labour.

 

Me? I vote Green.

[Jonnyboy]

Continue with your baseless smears if you like. I'm happy to disavow violence and condemn extremists whilst you refuse to condemn violent attacks from the hard left because you agree with them politically. I would say you're in the minority but sadly it's an all too common trait found in corbynistas. That will have to change if you hold out any hope of enticing middle England to vote Labour.

 

Those horrible horrible lefties:

[hypochondriac]

Those horrible horrible lefties:

Indeed.

 

Edited 5 August, 2018 by hypochondriac

[Jonnyboy]

Indeed.

 

 

You don't use the NHS then?

[shurlock]

You don't use the NHS then?

 

Half-witted collectivism, innit.

[hypochondriac]

You don't use the NHS then?

 

I'm not sure I get your point. You've taken one example from a few years ago of some seemingly harmless lefty types at a protest and tried to make it seems like that is a representative example of violence or intimidation from the left.

Edited 6 August, 2018 by hypochondriac

[Sheaf Saint]

No I meant things like organising an event on Holocaust memorial day that led to Israelis being compared to the nazis and failing to adopt the definition of anti semitism that pretty much everyone else has been adopted for fear that corbyn himself would fall afoul of the definition.

 

Well well well, this is interesting...

 

https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/blog/why-the-man-who-drafted-the-ihra-definition-condemns-its-use/

 

So JC and his party's decision to amend the wording of the examples provided with the IHRA definition, due to the possibility they could be used to shut down free speech relating to the Israel/Palestine conflict, appears to be fully supported by the very man who drafted the definition in the first place.

 

So, by your logic hypo, does that also make him an antisemite?

[Jonnyboy]

Well well well, this is interesting...

 

https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/blog/why-the-man-who-drafted-the-ihra-definition-condemns-its-use/

 

So JC and his party's decision to amend the wording of the examples provided with the IHRA definition, due to the possibility they could be used to shut down free speech relating to the Israel/Palestine conflict, appears to be fully supported by the very man who drafted the definition in the first place.

 

So, by your logic hypo, does that also make him an antisemite?

 

He a rabid, self loathing, anti-dentite!

[hypochondriac]

Well well well, this is interesting...

 

https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/blog/why-the-man-who-drafted-the-ihra-definition-condemns-its-use/

 

So JC and his party's decision to amend the wording of the examples provided with the IHRA definition, due to the possibility they could be used to shut down free speech relating to the Israel/Palestine conflict, appears to be fully supported by the very man who drafted the definition in the first place.

 

So, by your logic hypo, does that also make him an antisemite?

Kindly point out where I've said that corbyn is personally an anti-semite. Thanks.

[Sheaf Saint]

Kindly point out where I've said that corbyn is personally an anti-semite. Thanks.

 

If Corbyn falls foul of the IHRA definition, as you claim he does, then the implication is that you believe he is antisemitic. You may not have used the exact words but you're not wriggling out of this purely on on semantics.

 

Do you believe that Kenneth Stern falls foul of his own definition of antisemitism? A simple yes or no will suffice.

[hypochondriac]

If Corbyn falls foul of the IHRA definition, as you claim he does, then the implication is that you believe he is antisemitic. You may not have used the exact words but you're not wriggling out of this purely on on semantics.

 

Do you believe that Kenneth Stern falls foul of his own definition of antisemitism? A simple yes or no will suffice.

Sorry where did I say that corbyn falls foul of the ihra definition?

[Lord Duckhunter]

Kindly point out where I've said that corbyn is personally an anti-semite. Thanks.

 

Margaret Hodge knows him a bit better than you, or indeed Johnny boy or Bexy, and she told him to his face he was.

 

 

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[hypochondriac]

Margaret Hodge knows him a bit better than you, or indeed Johnny boy or Bexy, and she told him to his face he was.

 

 

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I've got no idea if he is or isn't, it just seems Bexy is arguing against me calling corbyn an anti-semite- something I never said. I can certainly see why some would believe he was given some of the things he has organised and how slow and reluctant he has been to address this issue.

[shurlock]

I've got no idea if he is or isn't, it just seems Bexy is arguing against me calling corbyn an anti-semite- something I never said. I can certainly see why some would believe he was given some of the things he has organised and how slow and reluctant he has been to address this issue.

 

Why don't you think he's an antisemite?

[hypochondriac]

Why don't you think he's an antisemite?

"I have no idea if he is or isn't". How is that difficult to understand?

[shurlock]

"I have no idea if he is or isn't". How is that difficult to understand?

 

So you don't have a view on the subject.

[hypochondriac]

So you don't have a view on the subject.

I've made my view perfectly clear. I don't know enough about Corbyn's personal views to ascertain if he is or isn't. As Duckhunter said, Margaret Hodge seemingly knows him fairly well and thinks he is. I can see why some of his actions would make people believe he is. If I'm honest I think he probably harbours quite a bit of sympathy for pro Palestinian activists- some of whom have views that could be described as anti semetic. Whatever the truth, he has handled this whole thing in characteristically appaling fashion.

[Verbal]

Well well well, this is interesting...

 

https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/blog/why-the-man-who-drafted-the-ihra-definition-condemns-its-use/

 

So JC and his party's decision to amend the wording of the examples provided with the IHRA definition, due to the possibility they could be used to shut down free speech relating to the Israel/Palestine conflict, appears to be fully supported by the very man who drafted the definition in the first place.

 

So, by your logic hypo, does that also make him an antisemite?

 

Well, well, well. It is interesting. And you have completely misunderstood it.

 

Stern's point, even in the selected quotes, is that the IHRA definition was never intended to chill free speech. He was NOT advocating amending the definition but rather protesting against the way some University campuses in the US and the UK have used it to ban certain ideas. The example he gives - equating the Israeli state with apartheid ideology - is indeed not 'banned' by the definition, even though it's been interpreted that way by a few.

 

To get the full sense of what Stern is saying, in a very nuanced and well argued submission, you need to read it in full. Here it is:

 

https://judiciary.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Stern-Testimony-11.07.17.pdf

 

But the essence of it is this:

 

The definition was not drafted, and was never intended, as a tool to target or chill speech on a college campus. In fact, at a conference in 2010 about the impact of the definition, I highlighted this misuse, and the damage it could do.11

 

You also seem to be a little lost on what the IHRA definition actually is. Here it is:

 

https://www.holocaustremembrance.com/working-definition-antisemitism

 

And yes, the Corbynista 'redefinition' makes adjustments to get the most common form of Corbynist anti-Semitism off the hook - especially the accusation that Jews have a greater loyalty to Israel than to their own country.