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CHAPEL END CHARLIE

By CHAPEL END CHARLIE,
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buctootim

buctootim

Posted
Posted
I was living the life of Riley before crypto came along :-).

 

The women I have dated in the last year average 28 YO. I'm 46, so can't complain.

 

#saintswebs #very #own #sugardaddy

 

Walking your kids to school doesn't count as a date Johnny.

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scotty

scotty

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If you get involved in any degree of support for the Palestinians you are inevitably going to mix with some antisemites. That, in itself, doesn't necessarily make you anti-Semitic or sympathetic to those who are. I'm not a fan of corbyn, but this entire story reeks of political opponents aided by the press doing a job on him.

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whelk

whelk

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If you get involved in any degree of support for the Palestinians you are inevitably going to mix with some antisemites. That, in itself, doesn't necessarily make you anti-Semitic or sympathetic to those who are. I'm not a fan of corbyn, but this entire story reeks of political opponents aided by the press doing a job on him.

 

I don’t know too much however enough Jewish people are saying it. Too easy to dismiss. I may have been influenced by a Hadley Freemen article admittedly,

However bit like black folk in Charlottesville being told by a privileged white president that these neo-Nazis are fine people. Think you have to be black and there to understand the hatred before dismissing as people getting excited about nothing,

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hypochondriac

hypochondriac

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I disagree that the mural is antisemitic. It was likenesses of six of the most well known banking families. If anything it is anti-capitalist.
The point is its ambiguous enough to be a problem and combined with other incidents that we all know about, you can see why Jewish leaders are upset and why the average member of the electorate isn't going to be particularly enthused by some of the people that Corbyn represents getting into power.
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Verbal

Verbal

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Troubles in Gaza, including apparent evidence of IDF shooting unarmed protestors, are really going to cool the temperature over here :rolleyes:

 

Quite so. Far-Left anti-Semites are no different in this sense than far-Right Islamopohobes.

 

Just as the far-Right demand that all Muslims take responsibility and apologise for all acts of Islamist terrorism, so too do the far-Left demand that all Jews take responsibility and apologise for the Israeli state's murderous behaviour against Palestinians.

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aintforever

aintforever

Posted
Posted (edited)
I disagree that the mural is antisemitic. It was likenesses of six of the most well known banking families. If anything it is anti-capitalist.

 

No, the connotations are obvious.his original painting didn’t look as bad but characters in this one are way too close to Nazi propaganda for there to be any doubt as to what the artist meant.

 

The fact that it has taken 5 years fo4 people to get so outraged smacks of an anti Corbyn smear campaign tho. No doubt something else from years ago will be dug up to get outraged over before the local elections.

Edited by aintforever
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Jonnyboy

Jonnyboy

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Quite so. Far-Left anti-Semites are no different in this sense than far-Right Islamopohobes.

 

Just as the far-Right demand that all Muslims take responsibility and apologise for all acts of Islamist terrorism, so too do the far-Left demand that all Jews take responsibility and apologise for the Israeli state's murderous behaviour against Palestinians.

 

No they don't.

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Verbal

Verbal

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No they don't.

 

Then there's probably a perfectly innocent explanation for this excerpt from the minutes of the Birkenhead CLP (Frank Field's local party):

 

“Diversity and equality training to be offered by the NEC. The proposed training by the Jewish Labour Group is not going ahead due to possible links with ISIS and the Israeli government."

 

In other words, that old anti-Semitic conspiracy-theory canard that Jews carry collective responsibility for causing and controlling the world's problems.

 

And did you watch the video I posted earlier, illustrating Corbynista-Labour's institutional anti-Semitism? Or are you doing the three monkeys thing?

 

Here it is again.

 

https://twitter.com/joedgoldberg/status/979656183026978816

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Sheaf Saint

Sheaf Saint

Posted
Posted
Then there's probably a perfectly innocent explanation for this excerpt from the minutes of the Birkenhead CLP (Frank Field's local party):

 

“Diversity and equality training to be offered by the NEC. The proposed training by the Jewish Labour Group is not going ahead due to possible links with ISIS and the Israeli government."

 

In other words, that old anti-Semitic conspiracy-theory canard that Jews carry collective responsibility for causing and controlling the world's problems.

 

And did you watch the video I posted earlier, illustrating Corbynista-Labour's institutional anti-Semitism? Or are you doing the three monkeys thing?

 

Here it is again.

 

https://twitter.com/joedgoldberg/status/979656183026978816

 

Yes, on watching that video it seems this lady had a horrific experience and the whole complaint was handled in an appalling manner which reflects very badly on the NEC, and I'm not going to try and defend it. The guy in question was expelled from the party last September though.

 

As to your claim that the Labour party is in danger of becoming institutionally antisemitic, how do you explain the results of a yougov poll which show that antisemitic attitudes have actually decreased since Corbyn became leader in 2015?

 

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/921pn4p2fh/CampaignAgainstAntisemitismResults_MergedFile_W.pdf

 

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/bs0i5dmt7s/CampaignAgainstAntisemitismResults_170803_JewishOpinions.pdf

 

Yet more actual evidence, rather than hearsay and rumour, that antisemitism is a bigger problem in the Conservative party than it is in Labour. To add to the long list of provable instances of overt racism and discrimination among their ranks in the last week which, for some very strange reason, aren't having front page headlines printed about them. Why isn't this story getting splashed all over the front pages of the tabloids like it would if it was about a Labour MP, for instance?

 

I've been reading a lot of debate and comment about this whole story recently, trying to cut through the hyperbole and find some actual facts to make my own mind up, and one thing I have noticed a lot of has really troubled me. When the fact that numerous studies and evidence show that antisemitism is a bigger problem in the Tory party than it is in Labour gets highlighted, I'm seeing a lot of comments in online circles defending this by stating that it's because Labour are being hypocrites by claiming to be the party of anti-racism. What people who use this defence seem to be willfully ignorant of is that it is essentially saying that racism and antisemitism in the Tory party (you know, the ones who are actually in government) is perfectly OK because they never actually claimed to be against it in the first place. :mcinnes:

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Sheaf Saint

Sheaf Saint

Posted
Posted
the far-Left demand that all Jews take responsibility and apologise for the Israeli state's murderous behaviour against Palestinians.

 

I don't know what's happened to you Verbal. I used to enjoy reading your posts, but this is one of the most ridiculous and dismissive loads of total codsh!t I have ever seen anybody post. And I'm not just saying that out of personal offence because I don't consider myself to be far-left.

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Verbal

Verbal

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I don't know what's happened to you Verbal. I used to enjoy reading your posts, but this is one of the most ridiculous and dismissive loads of total codsh!t I have ever seen anybody post. And I'm not just saying that out of personal offence because I don't consider myself to be far-left.

 

Alternatively you could confront the evidence.

 

You didn't comment on the Birkenhead resolution, about the Jewish Labour Movement (not, as minuted, the 'Jewish Labour Group'). The JLM, which has been affiliated to the Labour party since 1920, can only have 'links' to the Israeli state and ISIS if you are steeped in Jew-hating tropes.

 

JLM are avowedly Zionist - they're part of the Poale Zion movement, a socialist organisation with roots in the East End of London, which defends the right of Israel to exist but has long propounded the two-state solution, and has staunchly defended Palestinians against the brutalism of the Israeli military. JLM has been affiliated to the Labour party since 1920.

 

JLM's position on Israel is also, so it happens, official Labour party policy. Of course, not a single piece of evidence that JLM are in cahoots with ISIS or the Netanyahu regime is offered.

 

The real problem here - why it is that the far Left can scream 'Zionist!' and not think it's being anti-Semitic - is partly an historical one. The term 'anti-Zionist' didn't just spring from mid-air. It has a long history of being used against Jewish groups and individuals in socialist-bloc states, beginning with Stalin in 1953, and the so-called 'doctors' plot'. The argument runs like this: enemies of the state have allegiances to foreign powers; Jews have allegiance to Israel; therefore Jews are the enemies of the state. This argument is still commonly found among Corbynistas and the like. You don't have to look far from this forum to find this kind of sentiment:

 

A foreign state masterminding a continuous campaign of lies against the Labour Party, offering vast amounts of money to anyone who can dig the dirt on any MP who dares to raise their head above the parapet and speak out in support of Palestinian human rights, and draws attention to the flouting of international law and brutality of the State of Israel in their treatment of them. All supported by their acolytes in the 'Friends of Israel' groups, who are basically fifth columnists, for many of them their first allegiance is to Israel not the citizens of this country they are elected to represent. No man can serve two masters.

 

*(a Jew-hating rant, incidentally, endorsed by the site owner).

 

As for Labour being institutionally anti-Semitic, are you really trying to say that Michele Grant's case is just some instance of 'bad apples'? It indicates institutional anti-Semitism because Corbynistas now control many of the key institutions within the Labour party, including the complaints and appeals committees. That a series of travesties befell Grant, at a time when the party is supposed to be on alert about anti-Semitism, is astounding. Hers is not an isolated case.

 

Sadly, these are just snapshots. The evidence pile grows every day.

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Sheaf Saint

Sheaf Saint

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Posted
Alternatively you could confront the evidence.

 

You didn't comment on the Birkenhead resolution, about the Jewish Labour Movement (not, as minuted, the 'Jewish Labour Group'). The JLM, which has been affiliated to the Labour party since 1920, can only have 'links' to the Israeli state and ISIS if you are steeped in Jew-hating tropes.

 

JLM are avowedly Zionist - they're part of the Poale Zion movement, a socialist organisation with roots in the East End of London, which defends the right of Israel to exist but has long propounded the two-state solution, and has staunchly defended Palestinians against the brutalism of the Israeli military. JLM has been affiliated to the Labour party since 1920.

 

JLM's position on Israel is also, so it happens, official Labour party policy. Of course, not a single piece of evidence that JLM are in cahoots with ISIS or the Netanyahu regime is offered.

 

The real problem here - why it is that the far Left can scream 'Zionist!' and not think it's being anti-Semitic - is partly an historical one. The term 'anti-Zionist' didn't just spring from mid-air. It has a long history of being used against Jewish groups and individuals in socialist-bloc states, beginning with Stalin in 1953, and the so-called 'doctors' plot'. The argument runs like this: enemies of the state have allegiances to foreign powers; Jews have allegiance to Israel; therefore Jews are the enemies of the state. This argument is still commonly found among Corbynistas and the like. You don't have to look far from this forum to find this kind of sentiment:

 

A foreign state masterminding a continuous campaign of lies against the Labour Party, offering vast amounts of money to anyone who can dig the dirt on any MP who dares to raise their head above the parapet and speak out in support of Palestinian human rights, and draws attention to the flouting of international law and brutality of the State of Israel in their treatment of them. All supported by their acolytes in the 'Friends of Israel' groups, who are basically fifth columnists, for many of them their first allegiance is to Israel not the citizens of this country they are elected to represent. No man can serve two masters.

 

*(a Jew-hating rant, incidentally, endorsed by the site owner).

 

As for Labour being institutionally anti-Semitic, are you really trying to say that Michele Grant's case is just some instance of 'bad apples'? It indicates institutional anti-Semitism because Corbynistas now control many of the key institutions within the Labour party, including the complaints and appeals committees. That a series of travesties befell Grant, at a time when the party is supposed to be on alert about anti-Semitism, is astounding. Hers is not an isolated case.

 

Sadly, these are just snapshots. The evidence pile grows every day.

 

Aaaah, so what you actually meant to say was 'There are some on' the far left that demand that all Jews take responsibility and apologise for the Israeli state's murderous behaviour against Palestinians. I'm not going to disagree with that, because it's obvious there are a few. My point was that you can't tar the entire far-left with the same brush because, well, that in itself is just as moronic as blaming all Jews for the actions of the Israeli government, which is what this is all about. While not sitting on the far-left myself, I know a few people who do, and I can tell you that your blanket generalisation absolutely does not apply to them.

 

I have not at any point denied that there are some issues that the Labour party need to address. The Michelle Grant case, which I don't doubt is not an isolated one, was obviously handled very badly, but in the end they did the right thing and expelled the guy who she complained about, even if they went the very wrong way about it. It would be interesting to know the timeline of events in this case though. You are right in saying that Corbyn supporters now control many of the key institutions within the party, certainly since John Lansmann and two other Momentum members were elected to the NEC in January. But he hasn't always had the full support of the NEC - let's remember that they tried to block him from winning his second leadership election by changing the rules and banning new members from voting. So it's a little unfair to be chastising him for the actions of a group within his party who have actively tried to shaft him in the past.

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Batman

Batman

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Posted
Steptoe is just trolling now. Tonight he’s attended an event with a group that claims any Jews that oppose Jezza are “non Jews” ,and has called for the destruction of Israel.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

Just read a statement from Labour saying Jezza did NOT attend representing the party but in a personal capacity.

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shurlock

shurlock

Posted
Posted (edited)
Steptoe is just trolling now. Tonight he’s attended an event with a group that claims any Jews that oppose Jezza are “non Jews” ,and has called for the destruction of Israel.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

He attended a Seder with some Jews who happen to disagree with other Jews and yes they're quite a bit to the left. Big deal. Relax snowflake.

 

Ignorant fûckwits jumping all over this only vindicates those who (wrongly) think this is all a massive witch hunt.

Edited by shurlock
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aintforever

aintforever

Posted
Posted (edited)
Steptoe is just trolling now. Tonight he’s attended an event with a group that claims any Jews that oppose Jezza are “non Jews” ,and has called for the destruction of Israel.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

A left wing leader attended a left wing Jewish event - big deal.

 

It's almost as if these anti-semitism smears are just because he's anti-Israel - surely not.

Edited by aintforever
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Sheaf Saint

Sheaf Saint

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Posted
A left wing leader attended a left wing Jewish event - big deal.

 

It's almost as if these anti-semitism smears are just because he's anti-Israel - surely not.

 

Quite. And I find it astounding how those who are claiming that this group are the wrong type of Jews are themselves being openly and blatantly antisemitic. It's pathetic.

 

The BBC news are running with this as their lead story today, as if there is nothing more newsworthy going on in the world right now, and are describing this group as non-mainstream Jews. WTAF? It is not the place of the BBC to decide what is mainstream and what is not, and to effectively de-legitimise a certain group of Jews. Their lack of impartiality on this issue is a f*cking disgrace.

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Lord Duckhunter

Lord Duckhunter

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Posted
A left wing leader attended a left wing Jewish event - big deal.

 

It's almost as if these anti-semitism smears are just because he's anti-Israel - surely not.

 

According to Labours previous rulings it is an anti Semitic group. It called Israel “a steaming pile of sewage, that needs to be properly disposed of”. When Naz Shah said similar she was suspended from the party and subsequently admitted what she said was anti Semitic. They can’t be bending their own definition of what is anti Semitic because Steptoe attended a meeting, surely not.

 

As I said in my original post, he’s trolling.

 

 

If it’s no big deal,why were the party at pains to point out he was attending “ in a personal capacity”.

 

It was “a very clear two fingered salute at mainstream British Jewry,” according to Gideon Falter, the chairman of the Campaign Against Antisemitism.

 

John Woodcock called it “irresponsible and dangerous”.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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Verbal

Verbal

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Posted
Aaaah, so what you actually meant to say was 'There are some on' the far left that demand that all Jews take responsibility and apologise for the Israeli state's murderous behaviour against Palestinians. I'm not going to disagree with that, because it's obvious there are a few. My point was that you can't tar the entire far-left with the same brush because, well, that in itself is just as moronic as blaming all Jews for the actions of the Israeli government, which is what this is all about. While not sitting on the far-left myself, I know a few people who do, and I can tell you that your blanket generalisation absolutely does not apply to them.

 

No, I meant what I said. It's inherent in the far-left's virtue-signalling politics that it produces anti-Semitic acolytes - and it is a mirror of the far-right's nativist politics that inevitably produces Islamophobia. And both demand that the respective out-groups - Jews/Muslims - to take responsibility and apologise for Israel/Terrorism.

 

Here's a slightly different take on it but much better expressed, by Gideon Rachman, in the FT:

 

The far-Left and the far-Right like to think of themselves as bitter enemies. But they have similarities that make them breeding grounds for anti-Semitism. The link is their fondness for identity politics. Some on the far-right refer to themselves as 'identitarians' and believe they are fighting for white culture against Islam. The far-left also instinctively think in terms of communities, with their own spokesmen and lists of grievances.

 

So 'some of' grows out of 'all' - the 'anti-Zionist' politics as expounded with unbelievable ignorance by so many on the far-left has given rise to the most putrid Jew-hatred.

 

I have not at any point denied that there are some issues that the Labour party need to address. The Michelle Grant case, which I don't doubt is not an isolated one, was obviously handled very badly, but in the end they did the right thing and expelled the guy who she complained about, even if they went the very wrong way about it. It would be interesting to know the timeline of events in this case though. You are right in saying that Corbyn supporters now control many of the key institutions within the party, certainly since John Lansmann and two other Momentum members were elected to the NEC in January. But he hasn't always had the full support of the NEC - let's remember that they tried to block him from winning his second leadership election by changing the rules and banning new members from voting. So it's a little unfair to be chastising him for the actions of a group within his party who have actively tried to shaft him in the past.

 

The NEC's attempts to limit voting was to try to shut the door on precisely those who flooded in after the £3 membership gimmick and from whom the anti-Semitism problem has emerged. If you think otherwise, you're welcome to examine the provenance of some of the most vehement and vicious anti-Semitism now found within the party. In any case, even Momentum has publicly - though grudgingly - stated that complaints about anti-Semitism are not a 'smear'.

 

Oh, and as for Corbyn meeting with Jewdas, this is very much him deciding between Good Jews and Bad Jews. Good Jews make their 'anti-Zionism' front-and-centre - doing the very thing we've been discussing: taking responsibility and apologising for the state of Israel. But even they - as self-described anarchist pranksters - call for the expulsion of Ken Livingstone, which Corbyn plainly is reluctant to do. Bad Jews, on the other hand, remain such organisations as the JLM, which, as I've said, has been affiliated to the Labour party since well before the establishment of Israel in 1948. Corbyn has ignored repeated invitations from them, no doubt because, for all their criticism of the actions of the Israeli state, they are and always have been avowedly Zionist.

 

Corbyn is effectively saying: 'I've met some Jews, now **** off.' Hardly the solid judgement of a future political leader of this country - something that won't go unnoticed. Sadly, all this means is it'll increase the chances that we'll have yet more painful years of some sort of May-Johnson-Mogg-DUP horror show.

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shurlock

shurlock

Posted
Posted
Interesting day for Steptoe today. Israeli Labor Party suspends relations with him, but he gets Nick Griffins endorsement. Still with Max Mosley funding Tom Watson, I’m sure he’ll feel right at home.

 

 

213995630f1933ccb756d419eccd820f.jpg

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

Another one of guido fawkes fluffers, I see...

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Sheaf Saint

Sheaf Saint

Posted
Posted (edited)

Would that be this Avi Gabbay???

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/israel-palestine-labor-party-gabbay-netanyahu-settlements-two-state-bds-movement-a8005136.html

 

https://twitter.com/GarySpedding/status/983721110880563201

 

Yeah I expect Corbyn is devastated that he no longer has his support :rolleyes:

Edited by Sheaf Saint
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Verbal

Verbal

Posted
Posted
[h=1]Jeremy Corbyn and the death of Labour Party?[/h]

Is it dead yet ?

 

It's neither dead nor alive. Undead is more accurate - a zombie party. Led by Corbyn, it can never win an election nor offer leadership on anything remotely important. Its electoral losses will be trumpeted as successes, while those who suffer the direct effects of Tory rule remain fully exposed to the worst of them.

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Jonnyboy

Jonnyboy

Posted
Posted
Interesting day for Steptoe today. Israeli Labor Party suspends relations with him, but he gets Nick Griffins endorsement. Still with Max Mosley funding Tom Watson, I’m sure he’ll feel right at home.

 

 

213995630f1933ccb756d419eccd820f.jpg

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

Pr*ck can't even spell Labour right.

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Verbal

Verbal

Posted
Posted
Anyone hear Maureen Lipman on the radio today? Can't believe the media have wheeled out her in the latest attack on Corbyn, came across as a senile old grandma. Clueless.

 

When's the local elections again?

 

What have you got against the Jewish woman Maureen Lipman?

 

Your 'senile old grandma' comment seems especially spiteful, and it's pretty plain you really feel the hatred towards her. You should get that seen to.

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shurlock

shurlock

Posted
Posted (edited)
What have you got against the Jewish woman Maureen Lipman?

 

Your 'senile old grandma' comment seems especially spiteful, and it's pretty plain you really feel the hatred towards her. You should get that seen to.

 

I thought she decided to never vote Labour again in 2014?

 

Her very personal comments about Ed Miliband for supporting a Commons vote on recognising a Palestinian state -and oh yes the temerity of eating a bacon sandwich- suggests she's no innocent.

Edited by shurlock
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Jonnyboy

Jonnyboy

Posted
Posted
What have you got against the Jewish woman Maureen Lipman?

 

Your 'senile old grandma' comment seems especially spiteful, and it's pretty plain you really feel the hatred towards her. You should get that seen to.

 

Yeah you're right, I'm a rabid anti-Semite clearly.

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Verbal

Verbal

Posted
Posted

After Corbynista indulgences in Jew-hating (including threats to MPs complaining about threats) and as outsourcers of Putin's propaganda machine, we have the spectacle of Corbyn himself falling flat on his face in front of an open goal over Windrush.

 

His befuddled failure to respond to May’s statement that the decision to destroy the registration cards was taken under a Labour government in 2009 allowed the most incompetent PM of recent times off the hook.

 

Fixating on the cards was beyond stupid. The real issue was that the ‘hostile environment’ toward immigrants and their paperwork (TM Theresa May) was ruining lives of British citizens. Corbyn’s rabbit-in-the-headlights act showed he’s incapable of understanding this.

 

As it was, May left her seat in the chamber with a smirk on her face.

 

Fortunately, journalists from the hated MSM, like Amelia Gentleman, have done the hard work of exposing this scandal and keeping the pressure on the government in a way that Corbyn simply can’t do.

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