All things Labour Party

[bridge too far]

A very sensible view. I believe that the developing bond between a mother and child are vitally important but there is also a benefit from a morning of two mixing with other children under a properly structured learning environment. The problems arise when the child is just dumped in the corner and left to itself, whether that be at home or in a crèche.

 

And the bond between a father and child is equally important, of course.

[CB Fry]

Whatever. I'm not trying anything, I've just never encountered such a backward bunch of oddballs.

 

Did Stalin live as a member of the public or did he live a lavish lifestyle, whilst making sure that the tiers of government were firmly under his dictatorship?

He lived almost his entire life as a key member of the communist party, that's what he did.

[Whitey Grandad]

Whitey the type of dumping in a corner at a crèche doesn't really exist anymore. The vast majority of childcare is now rated good or outstanding and the standards have improved a lot over the last decade. Of course the inspections by tribal are wildly inaccurate but I've been to enough nurseries around the country to know that things are getting better all the time.

 

Yes, I accept that. The situation is much improved these days.

[Hockey_saint]

He lived almost his entire life as a key member of the communist party, that's what he did.

 

Can't disagree with that. But my point was that Marxist theory (ergo, the left) doesn't envisage some supreme totalitarian leader (but it does happen, a lot) who is better than anyone else and can do whatever he/she likes without the will or permission of a government people's body. Now Stalin never behaved like that. In many ways he acted like Hitler (Lenin warned of him before his death) believing that it was his will and his ideals that counted the most and as we all know, his purges nearly cost Russia the war.

 

Now there are many totalitarian leaders like this claiming to be on the left and indeed affiliating themselves as such, Pol Pot for example. Mugabe being another. My point was that unless they follow marxist doctrine of no one more powerful than the people, then they are certainly not communist (although communism is mainly just a financial system). Maybe left wing but since Marxist theory is the basis of left wing thinking then they are not really that are they? In which case, all that is left (since he wasn't an anarchist, which is the diametric opposite of Nazism) is the right.

 

But if Tony B-liar was a lefty, then the left of the labour party would not be wanting a new direction....to the left....would they?

[hutch]

So has there ever been a good example of left wing government?

 

I suppose there's always Venezuela, or Cuba.

[Hockey_saint]

So has there ever been a good example of left wing government?

 

I suppose there's always Venezuela, or Cuba.

 

Perhaps those two, although I would probably discount Venezuela. There never has really been a government that fully embraced the communist system to the letter anyhow.....As the right wingers will point out, it relies on a part of human nature that is often lost to more selfish, basal (some would say right wing) instincts of greed and such.

 

To that end, if you watch US politics and whenever someone veers slightly away from the centre, there are groups automatically willing to label whoever a "filthy commie", now, we've not gotten that far here but I still think what people consider communist or far left wing to be more centralist than people give them credit for.

 

I was in a bit of a history group at college that were a bit communistic in our thinking.....the other three are now history teachers so oddly enough, I do know a bit about these things, often more from osmosis off them.

Edited 25 July, 2015 by Hockey_saint

[Whitey Grandad]

Venezuela is an outstanding example of economic mismanagement. The largest oil reserves in the world and they still get it wrong.

[Hockey_saint]

Venezuela is an outstanding example of economic mismanagement. The largest oil reserves in the world and they still get it wrong.

 

Very true. One could say the same of Mugabe's Zimbabwe too...what with it formerly being the bread basket of Africa. As I say, I feel the ideas of the far left are always good in theory but they far too often end up like Animal farm thanks to Human nature. I still don't think Corbyn is along on this scale. He has expressed some opinions that are certainly left of centre but the over-reaction from the rest, who, at best are a bunch of clones is disgraceful.

[CB Fry]

Can't disagree with that. But my point was that Marxist theory (ergo, the left) doesn't envisage some supreme totalitarian leader (but it does happen, a lot) who is better than anyone else and can do whatever he/she likes without the will or permission of a government people's body. Now Stalin never behaved like that. In many ways he acted like Hitler (Lenin warned of him before his death) believing that it was his will and his ideals that counted the most and as we all know, his purges nearly cost Russia the war.

 

Now there are many totalitarian leaders like this claiming to be on the left and indeed affiliating themselves as such, Pol Pot for example. Mugabe being another. My point was that unless they follow marxist doctrine of no one more powerful than the people, then they are certainly not communist (although communism is mainly just a financial system). Maybe left wing but since Marxist theory is the basis of left wing thinking then they are not really that are they? In which case, all that is left (since he wasn't an anarchist, which is the diametric opposite of Nazism) is the right.

 

But if Tony B-liar was a lefty, then the left of the labour party would not be wanting a new direction....to the left....would they?

 

Yep, thought you were going down that route. As soon as anyone driven by left wing ideology does anything bad, they're not left wing anymore. It's almost like China and the USSR just accidentally fell into totalitarianism.

 

Your last sentence brings you right back on form, another pointless question.

 

People on the left of the Labour party were complaining about Blair when he was winning three consecutive thumping majorities so what is happening now is business as usual. Its cute you seem to genuinely think this Corbyn thing represents a something new. He's just a rent-a-leftie doing his little turn for one fringe of the party. He'll scuttle off back to obscurity come September and that's that.

[Hockey_saint]

Yep, thought you were going down that route. As soon as anyone driven by left wing ideology does anything bad, they're not left wing anymore. It's almost like China and the USSR just accidentally fell into totalitarianism.

 

Your last sentence brings you right back on form, another pointless question.

 

People on the left of the Labour party were complaining about Blair when he was winning three consecutive thumping majorities so what is happening now is business as usual. Its cute you seem to genuinely think this Corbyn thing represents a something new. He's just a rent-a-leftie doing his little turn for one fringe of the party. He'll scuttle off back to obscurity come September and that's that.

 

Whatever you may think.

 

Some great quotes here however....not much of which could be construed as "leftist" (Maybe in your mind they might be)

"I believe Margaret Thatcher's emphasis on enterprise was right."

 

"A strong society should not be confused with a strong state."

 

"Duty is the cornerstone of a decent society."

 

"Britain needs more successful people who can become rich by success through the money they earn."

 

"People don't want an overbearing state."

 

Yep, very commie eh?

 

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1996/06/the-paradoxical-case-of-tony-blair/376602/

[CB Fry]

Whatever you may think.

 

Some great quotes here however....not much of which could be construed as "leftist" (Maybe in your mind they might be)

"I believe Margaret Thatcher's emphasis on enterprise was right."

 

"A strong society should not be confused with a strong state."

 

"Duty is the cornerstone of a decent society."

 

"Britain needs more successful people who can become rich by success through the money they earn."

 

"People don't want an overbearing state."

 

Yep, very commie eh?

 

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1996/06/the-paradoxical-case-of-tony-blair/376602/

I have no idea what point you're trying to make.

[Hockey_saint]

I have no idea what point you're trying to make.

 

The point I am trying to make is that people like you and GM bang on about the dreaded left. When in fact the whole reason for Corbyn is because the party has drifted so far from the left to more a centralist right party that this was going to happen.

 

Also, did I say they just "accidently" turned into despotic megalomaniac totalitarian states? No, as I said quite clearly, it's often human nature to disagree with a lot of Marxist beliefs and there is often one power voice within such movements who, more often than not is essentially a right-winger parading in left-wing sheep's clothing who often appears very clever and skillful and therefore pushes their way to the top and essentially turns the ideals of socialism into a manifestation of themselves.

 

It doesn't happen by accident at all but it's not the left's ultimate goal to do this.

[CB Fry]

The point I am trying to make is that people like you and GM bang on about the dreaded left. When in fact the whole reason for Corbyn is because the party has drifted so far from the left to more a centralist right party that this was going to happen.

 

Also, did I say they just "accidently" turned into despotic megalomaniac totalitarian states? No, as I said quite clearly, it's often human nature to disagree with a lot of Marxist beliefs and there is often one power voice within such movements who, more often than not is essentially a right-winger parading in left-wing sheep's clothing who often appears very clever and skillful and therefore pushes their way to the top and essentially turns the ideals of socialism into a manifestation of themselves.

 

It doesn't happen by accident at all but it's not the left's ultimate goal to do this.

 

LOL "me and GM", two forum contributors who basically agree about absolutely nothing.

 

And you've done your routine already. We get it. It's all left wing when jolly nice things happen, but as soon as anything horrible happens, say like a pan - generational totalitarian state powered by democide, that's, like, so right wing and stuff innit. That uber capitalist Mao Tse-tung was a devil for the small state free market model, wasn't he? I remember when he deregulated the water companies and sold them to a French multinational. Oh, and that time he introduced internal market competition to their health service. Like, he was sooo right wing that Chairman Mao.

 

I do hope you're about 15 years old.

[Polaroid Saint]

Once again a thread on Saints Web has descended into nothing more than an argument about semantics.

 

In this case based around a different understanding of the terms left and right wing.

 

I suggest, if it interests anyone, that they spend their time researching it, or talking to people that actual know something, rather than trying to point score on here, particular now (sigh) the usual suspects have reduced themselves to petty name calling (again).

 

Boring, boring, boring. (There are better politics forums out there where people can actually strongly disagree without being tw*ts about it and implying the other person is stupid or a child.)

 

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

[View From The Top]

So has there ever been a good example of left wing government?

 

I suppose there's always Venezuela, or Cuba.

 

All of Scandinavia.

[Guided Missile]

All of Scandinavia.

Denmark recently voted in a Conservative government, sensibly...

[Whitey Grandad]

All of Scandinavia.

 

Good point, although for Norway and Sweden I would argue that there are special circumstances in that Norway has enormous fuel resources for a small population and Sweden was neutral during the war and profited greatly from it. Even so, they haven't actually buggered it up.

[View From The Top]

Denmark recently voted in a Conservative government, sensibly...

 

Whoo Hoo. Go them.

[Whitey Grandad]

Denmark recently voted in a Conservative government, sensibly...

 

Not really comparable to our Conservatives. Denmark seems to be in a permanent state of coalition and the present prime minister is leader of the 'Venstre' party which means 'Left'. I suppose we might describe their proposals as typical of a Conservative government.

 

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/danish-government-to-curb-immigration-and-freeze-spending-1.2265974

 

(Unless all this has changed in the last couple of weeks)

[CB Fry]

Once again a thread on Saints Web has descended into nothing more than an argument about semantics.

 

In this case based around a different understanding of the terms left and right wing.

 

I suggest, if it interests anyone, that they spend their time researching it, or talking to people that actual know something, rather than trying to point score on here, particular now (sigh) the usual suspects have reduced themselves to petty name calling (again).

 

Boring, boring, boring. (There are better politics forums out there where people can actually strongly disagree without being tw*ts about it and implying the other person is stupid or a child.)

 

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

 

Please do point me in the direction of one of those awfully high brow political forums where Chairman Mao gets described as a "right winger in left wingers clothing" and everyone strokes their beards at such an insightful observation. Must be brilliant on there, what with all the "people that know something" and research and that.

Edited 26 July, 2015 by CB Fry

[Hockey_saint]

LOL "me and GM", two forum contributors who basically agree about absolutely nothing.

 

And you've done your routine already. We get it. It's all left wing when jolly nice things happen, but as soon as anything horrible happens, say like a pan - generational totalitarian state powered by democide, that's, like, so right wing and stuff innit. That uber capitalist Mao Tse-tung was a devil for the small state free market model, wasn't he? I remember when he deregulated the water companies and sold them to a French multinational. Oh, and that time he introduced internal market competition to their health service. Like, he was sooo right wing that Chairman Mao.

 

I do hope you're about 15 years old.

 

I've been to China CB, my father goes there all the time and a lot of his friends are in the pharmaceutical industry. China's not a great example for you I'm afraid. "western communism mixed with Chinese business sense"...i.e. not very left wing on most things except when it's to the advantage of the politburo. Healthcare is shockingly expensive over there too (not what we'd expect a Socialist NHS style organisation to be).

 

None of this genocide or totalitarian-ness was in Karl Marx or any of the socialist founders plans or ideals for a new world (some struggle may have been required to otherthrow you capitalists) but if I give you a few far right wing ideals, murder, genocide, intolerance and general nastiness are never too far away.

 

Either way Polaroid's right, my appologies for turning this quite clearly ideological (at the very start and title) thread into a politically ideological one!

[CB Fry]

I've been to China CB, my father goes there all the time and a lot of his friends are in the pharmaceutical industry. China's not a great example for you I'm afraid. "western communism mixed with Chinese business sense"...i.e. not very left wing on most things except when it's to the advantage of the politburo. Healthcare is shockingly expensive over there too (not what we'd expect a Socialist NHS style organisation to be).

 

None of this genocide or totalitarian-ness was in Karl Marx or any of the socialist founders plans or ideals for a new world (some struggle may have been required to otherthrow you capitalists) but if I give you a few far right wing ideals, murder, genocide, intolerance and general nastiness are never too far away.

 

Either way Polaroid's right, my appologies for turning this quite clearly ideological (at the very start and title) thread into a politically ideological one!

 

You're just scatter-gunning completely unrelated points to zero effect.

 

You can't accuse people of not knowing history and then come out with ill informed garbage like this.

 

Anyway, we've established you haven't a ruddy clue so let's leave it at that.

[Wes Tender]

I've been to China CB, my father goes there all the time and a lot of his friends are in the pharmaceutical industry. China's not a great example for you I'm afraid. "western communism mixed with Chinese business sense"...i.e. not very left wing on most things except when it's to the advantage of the politburo. Healthcare is shockingly expensive over there too (not what we'd expect a Socialist NHS style organisation to be).

 

None of this genocide or totalitarian-ness was in Karl Marx or any of the socialist founders plans or ideals for a new world (some struggle may have been required to otherthrow you capitalists) but if I give you a few far right wing ideals, murder, genocide, intolerance and general nastiness are never too far away.

 

Either way Polaroid's right, my appologies for turning this quite clearly ideological (at the very start and title) thread into a politically ideological one!

 

You really do have difficulty in understanding the points made by some other people. When CBF made an example of Chairman Mao as an historically prominent example of a despotic left-wing leader, it is almost as nonsensical to compare China currently with how it was then as it would be to compare Germany with how that is now compared with how it was under Hitler.

 

And although the thread is about what the effect on the Labour party would be if Corbyn was elected, his left-wing leanings are the main criteria of how the party would fare in any future General Election, so it is pertinent to the dabate to establish what defines the left or the right, although the parameters have changed over the past couple of decades and arguably it is more difficult to define right and left than it was previously.

[Guided Missile]

Please do point me in the direction of one of those awfully high brow political forums where Chairman Mao gets described as a "right winger in left wingers clothing" and everyone strokes their beards at such an insightful observation. Must be brilliant on there, what with all the "people that know something" and research and that.

To be fair, there's no real difference between the Republican Party in the US and the North Korean Ruling Party of Kim Jong-un. Ask any of the starving North Koreans and they will just tell you it's nothing more than semantics, as they eat another plate of grass....

[Hockey_saint]

You're just scatter-gunning completely unrelated points to zero effect.

 

You can't accuse people of not knowing history and then come out with ill informed garbage like this.

 

Anyway, we've established you haven't a ruddy clue so let's leave it at that.

 

I see poverty, I see people being thrown on the scrapheap, I see people using foodbanks and I read some of the stuff written here and you think I'M ill-informed?

 

Can I call the ******** you spout garbage to then? Because most of the disabled people I know don't think they're having a rollocking good time under this government.

 

It just seems to me these threads, when ever a political subject is brought up is dominated by a few right wingers who's view HAVE to be completely correct and everyone else is wrong.

Edited 26 July, 2015 by Hockey_saint

[Whitey Grandad]

I see poverty, I see people being thrown on the scrapheap, I see people using foodbanks and I read some of the stuff written here and you think I'M ill-informed?

 

Can I call the ******** you spout garbage to then? Because most of the disabled people I know don't think they're having a rollocking good time under this government.

 

It just seems to me these threads, when ever a political subject is brought up is dominated by a few right wingers who's view HAVE to be completely correct and everyone else is wrong.

 

Do you think the views of the right-wingers are any less valid than your's?

[hypochondriac]

I see poverty, I see people being thrown on the scrapheap, I see people using foodbanks and I read some of the stuff written here and you think I'M ill-informed?

 

Can I call the ******** you spout garbage to then? Because most of the disabled people I know don't think they're having a rollocking good time under this government.

 

It just seems to me these threads, when ever a political subject is brought up is dominated by a few right wingers who's view HAVE to be completely correct and everyone else is wrong.

 

But cb Fry has already explained that he is pretty far from being right wing yet you continue to pigeon hole so I'm confused.

[hutch]

I see poverty, I see people being thrown on the scrapheap, I see people using foodbanks and I read some of the stuff written here and you think I'M ill-informed?

 

Can I call the ******** you spout garbage to then? Because most of the disabled people I know don't think they're having a rollocking good time under this government.

 

It just seems to me these threads, when ever a political subject is brought up is dominated by a few right wingers who's view HAVE to be completely correct and everyone else is wrong.

Where do you see poverty?

[Guided Missile]

Where do you see poverty?

He can see Woolston from his Dad's penthouse in Ocean Village...

[Seaford Saint]

I can't wait to vote for some one I believe is worth voting for:) Is there really any difference between Tories and Labour as it currently exists? I listened to Corbyn this morning and agreed with everything he said.....we privatise the nuclear industry and we pay for clean up....we build and maintain the railways and someone else runs it....same goes for the power industry. I would love for all those to be re-nationalised. Same for Royal Mail.....he talked about manufacturing and how we needed to bring it back. I found nothing I disagreed with.....he was asked if he wanted to have a higher tax regime and he said no he would rather we got institutions to pay the tax they owed....gets my vote

 

I will join the Labour party and vote for him.

[CB Fry]

I see poverty, I see people being thrown on the scrapheap, I see people using foodbanks and I read some of the stuff written here and you think I'M ill-informed?

 

Can I call the ******** you spout garbage to then? Because most of the disabled people I know don't think they're having a rollocking good time under this government.

 

It just seems to me these threads, when ever a political subject is brought up is dominated by a few right wingers who's view HAVE to be completely correct and everyone else is wrong.

 

Yep. Just a scatter gun of non sequiturs. Well done.

 

You could try and assemble some kind of coherent point or train of thought, but I'm pretty sure you don't really want to.

[Whitey Grandad]

I can't wait to vote for some one I believe is worth voting for:) Is there really any difference between Tories and Labour as it currently exists? I listened to Corbyn this morning and agreed with everything he said.....we privatise the nuclear industry and we pay for clean up....we build and maintain the railways and someone else runs it....same goes for the power industry. I would love for all those to be re-nationalised. Same for Royal Mail.....he talked about manufacturing and how we needed to bring it back. I found nothing I disagreed with.....he was asked if he wanted to have a higher tax regime and he said no he would rather we got institutions to pay the tax they owed....gets my vote

 

I will join the Labour party and vote for him.

 

He's going to do all that without raising taxes? There's nowhere near enough tax evaded to pay for all that and even then what they're doing is not illegal. This has confirmed it for me, he is a loony lefty.

[Hockey_saint]

He can see Woolston from his Dad's penthouse in Ocean Village...

 

Well I do have to walk through Shirley a lot. Don't forget, I am a disabled person and I belong to a lot of groups who are having their funding stripped and the boundaries for what is "disabled" as well as in fact what is "poor" are being re-written all the time by this government.

 

There are lots of points I'm making that are linked and coherent but you refuse to see them. What you prefer to do is just insult me. Either way, it should be up to the labour party members to vote for whoever they want in charge as opposed to those lovely people at the Telegraph who are encouraging the tory voters to ransack such a vote....Then again, given Conservative history, democracy hasn't really been their "thing" (Pincochet, Smith etc).

[Seaford Saint]

He's going to do all that without raising taxes? There's nowhere near enough tax evaded to pay for all that and even then what they're doing is not illegal. This has confirmed it for me, he is a loony lefty.

 

Well he mentioned £50 billion in unpaid taxes and if closed loopholes could mean more money coming in there might be scope for some investment.....so far neo liberal economics has left the western world very very heavily in debt.....are you saying there is no other way or that the current way is the correct way.

[whelk]

My lesson was based on 30 years of running a business and I can tell you that any business, when faced with paying £18,000 a year for a 21 year old or the same for a 25 year old, all things being equal, would chose the 25 year old, all day long, leaving the 21 year old out of work. 25 year olds are more likely to need the minimum wage, as well, given the drop in teenage pregnancies the benefit cap will cause.

 

God knows why you think that lessons are only learnt by either indoctrination or reading is beyond me. What a strange thought. Experience is a wonderful thing and what new technological discoveries are based on.

 

Did your business go under because you were a complete cnt of a boss and no one wanted to work for you? Just speculating.

[whelk]

It just seems to me these threads, when ever a political subject is brought up is dominated by a few right wingers who's view HAVE to be completely correct and everyone else is wrong.

 

One of the prominent lefties got banned and a few followed. Although Fry is not a right winger and how have you not worked this out yet?

 

Political threads on here can't help get abusive I'm afraid.

[CB Saint]

Good point, although for Norway and Sweden I would argue that there are special circumstances in that Norway has enormous fuel resources for a small population and Sweden was neutral during the war and profited greatly from it. Even so, they haven't actually buggered it up.

 

dont be too sure

 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/04/sweden-school-choice-education-decline-oecd

[Hockey_saint]

One of the prominent lefties got banned and a few followed. Although Fry is not a right winger and how have you not worked this out yet?

 

Political threads on here can't help get abusive I'm afraid.

 

I wouldn't say he was left either.

 

Having said this, my old mother is a lefty and she's just informed me she doesn't want Corbyn in as he's "too old, too regressive and just the wrong choice"...Which buggers up a few of my views too.

[bridge too far]

dont be too sure

 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/04/sweden-school-choice-education-decline-oecd

 

Since Michael Gove was so in love with the Swedish system, it is to be hoped that his successor learns some of the lessons from this. I won't hold my breath though ...

[eurosaint]

I see poverty, I see people being thrown on the scrapheap, I see people using foodbanks and I read some of the stuff written here and you think I'M ill-informed?

 

Can I call the ******** you spout garbage to then? Because most of the disabled people I know don't think they're having a rollocking good time under this government.

 

It just seems to me these threads, when ever a political subject is brought up is dominated by a few right wingers who's view HAVE to be completely correct and everyone else is wrong.

 

Only a small point but recently I witnessed a queue for a food bank where at least half of them were obese, many of them were smoking fags at (£8 ??) a packet and most covered in expensive tattoos !

It does make me wonder if it is borne out of necessity or has just become a lifestyle choice ?

[Hockey_saint]

Only a small point but recently I witnessed a queue for a food bank where at least half of them were obese, many of them were smoking fags at (£8 ??) a packet and most covered in expensive tattoos !

It does make me wonder if it is borne out of necessity or has just become a lifestyle choice ?

 

It's possible the system is being abused by some I grant you but I don't think we can dismiss them as such because a few are like that however. Besides, maybe the people queueing may have such stupid tastes and addictions but I bet their kids don't and it'll be them who suffer.

[Whitey Grandad]

Well he mentioned £50 billion in unpaid taxes and if closed loopholes could mean more money coming in there might be scope for some investment.....so far neo liberal economics has left the western world very very heavily in debt.....are you saying there is no other way or that the current way is the correct way.

 

If they're illegal then they would be mopped up. If they're legal then how can they be 'unpaid taxes'?

 

Or is he just saying that he would increase taxes by £50bn?

[bridge too far]

If they're illegal then they would be mopped up. If they're legal then how can they be 'unpaid taxes'?

 

Or is he just saying that he would increase taxes by £50bn?

 

1. They're not being mopped up though, are they

2. The loopholes aren't being closed (you know the legal avoidance ones) like this

 

https://home.38degrees.org.uk/2015/02/19/close-the-mayfair-tax-loophole/

[Hockey_saint]

Well this is good to see:

 

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/jul/26/benefit-sanctions-review-urged-amid-concern-over-regimes-effectiveness

 

It's also good to see where Matthew Oakley went!

[bridge too far]

Well this is good to see:

 

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/jul/26/benefit-sanctions-review-urged-amid-concern-over-regimes-effectiveness

 

It's also good to see where Matthew Oakley went!

 

But you just know IDS will deny / refuse to co-operate in the same way as he has resisted calls to state the number of benefits claimants who have died as a result of sanctions. I've lost count of the number of times he's been ordered to give out this information and he has prevaricated and downright refused. The Office for National Statistics has on many occasions criticised him for playing fast and loose with statistics.

 

The man is a monster.

[Whitey Grandad]

1. They're not being mopped up though, are they

2. The loopholes aren't being closed (you know the legal avoidance ones) like this

 

https://home.38degrees.org.uk/2015/02/19/close-the-mayfair-tax-loophole/

 

£50bn is a hell of a lot and sounds like it's been plucked out of thin air. If it were anything like that much then the Treasury would be jumping on it.

 

It's in progress:

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/budget/11727036/Budget-2015-Private-equity-managers-to-fork-out-1.8bn-more-in-tax-as-loophole-is-tightened.html

 

The Treasury is very inventive and exhaustive in grabbing every penny they can get but they can only go after the unlawful evasions.

[Hockey_saint]

Good point. I know what he's like but it's essentially one of the niggles I have, people (some on this board) will say "but the genuinely sick/hardworking won't be affected" to which my usual response is to say that the tactic used is like breaking a walnut with a sledgehammer.....IDS being the sledgehammer.

[Jonnyboy]

Only a small point but recently I witnessed a queue for a food bank where at least half of them were obese, many of them were smoking fags at (£8 ??) a packet and most covered in expensive tattoos !

It does make me wonder if it is borne out of necessity or has just become a lifestyle choice ?

 

If you are previously employed is it not acceptable to get a few tats and get addicted to nicotine during that time?

[Hockey_saint]

If you are previously employed is it not acceptable to get a few tats and get addicted to nicotine during that time?

 

It detracts from the 1920's great depression image of half-starved kids and skeletal adults people expect to see you know ;p

[Twiggy]

As someone who is still in education, albeit higher education now, please do not mention Gove. The man is a fool.

 

In regards to Corbyn, he seems to be doing to British politics what Saunders is doing to the Yanks. Which is shaking it up and making people have a think, and not just vote for who is the easiest option.