All things Labour Party

[hypochondriac]

You're conflating liberalism with a leftie bias, two very different things.

 

There are lots of reasons why the young might be more left-leaning - the young have historically been more radical and idealistic. Hard to attribute it exclusively to the education or teaching system.

 

Frankly the young who vote Corbyn and older voters who support the Tories have more in common than you think. On one level, both are voting for parties that promise to advance their economic interests.

Oh I absolutely do not attribute it solely to teaching but it undoubtedly has a very significant impact and not just in the UK. Have you seen the ordeals that the likes of Jordan peterson have had to go through? Or that American university last week who was urged to resign because he refused to leave the university due to the colour of his skin? Or the university lecturers who have been unmasked as antifa members who have been hitting people in the head with bike locks? It's disgusting, dangerous and is contributing to this far left plague by playing on the idealism that you rightly state is a characteristic of the young.

[shurlock]

Very good argument for defecit reduction....

 

Im quite happy to pay our debts now.

 

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Or ensuring that any reduction is borne more heavily by the older generations.

[shurlock]

Oh I absolutely do not attribute it solely to teaching but it undoubtedly has a very significant impact and not just in the UK. Have you seen the ordeals that the likes of Jordan peterson have had to go through? Or that American university last week who was urged to resign because he refused to leave the university due to the colour of his skin? Or the university lecturers who have been unmasked as antifa members who have been hitting people in the head with bike locks? It's disgusting, dangerous and is contributing to this far left plague by playing on the idealism that you rightly state is a characteristic of the young.

 

Am sure that stuff goes on -after all, the university sector and student population are big enough; however I've seen no evidence that the problem is systemic.

[whelk]

My old man used to say that if you don't vote Labour when you are young, you haven't got a heart. But if you don't vote Tory when you are older, you haven't got a head.

 

Isn't Tory voter dying at rate of 2% a year? Or do the mid 40s then migrate to Tory each year?

[aintforever]

Or ensuring that any reduction is borne more heavily by the older generations.

 

Exactly, the people that caused the debt should take more responsibility, instead of sitting in their million pound houses they 'paid for' telling kids they have to get 40k in debt to do a degree.

[Jonnyboy]

Exactly, the people that caused the debt should take more responsibility, instead of sitting in their million pound houses they 'paid for' telling kids they have to get 40k in debt to do a degree.

 

This.

[Whitey Grandad]

Exactly, the people that caused the debt should take more responsibility, instead of sitting in their million pound houses they 'paid for' telling kids they have to get 40k in debt to do a degree.

 

Your world, you sort it.

[aintforever]

Your world, you sort it.

 

They will. why do you think so many youngsters were prepared to vote for an IRA sympathiser loon like Corbyn?

[Sour Mash]

Exactly, the people that caused the debt should take more responsibility, instead of sitting in their million pound houses they 'paid for' telling kids they have to get 40k in debt to do a degree.

Agreed, let's get these strong austerity policies up and running asap, no point continuing to kick them down the road.

[badgerx16]

Exactly, the people that caused the debt should take more responsibility......

Is there a way to find out how much of this debt I might potentially be held responsible for, and can I challenge the formula if I don't like the result ?

[Lord Duckhunter]

My old man used to say that if you don't vote Labour when you are young, you haven't got a heart. But if you don't vote Tory when you are older, you haven't got a head.

 

That pinko idiot Michael Hestletine was in The Spectator claiming the Tories are in trouble because their voters are getting older & dying and are being replaced in the electoral roll by youngsters who are lefties. If that was the only story then the Tories would have died out years ago, because it's been the same for 40 years. What keeps the Tories going is the youngsters becoming older & with it becoming Tories. People don't become Tories by argument or persuasion , because the left have the utopian dreams that are hard to argue against. You turn people into Tories by making them householders, business men, give them a stake in capitalism. Show them that free markets work for them, that's how people become Tories.

 

What will **** the Tories isn't the young voting, it's the middle aged people that still aren't on the housing ladder, that haven't had a decent pay rise and capitalism isn't working for. It would probably help if they were actually a Tory Government, rather than a Ted Heath tribute act.

 

 

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Edited 26 June, 2017 by Lord Duckhunter

[whelk]

That pinko idiot Michael Hestletine was in The Spectator claiming the Tories are in trouble because their voters are getting older & dying and are being replaced in the electoral roll by youngsters who are lefties. If that was the only story then the Tories would have died out years ago, because it's been the same for 40 years. What keeps the Tories going is the youngsters becoming older & with it becoming Tories. People don't become Tories by argument or persuasion , because the left have the utopian dreams that are hard to argue against. You turn people into Tories by making them householders, business men, give them a stake in capitalism. Show them that free markets work for them, that's how people become Tories.

 

What will **** the Tories isn't the young voting, it's the middle aged people that still aren't on the housing ladder, that haven't had a decent pay rise and capitalism isn't working for. It would probably help if they were actually a Tory Government, rather than a Ted Heath tribute act.

 

 

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[shurlock]

That pinko idiot Michael Hestletine was in The Spectator claiming the Tories are in trouble because their voters are getting older & dying and are being replaced in the electoral roll by youngsters who are lefties. If that was the only story then the Tories would have died out years ago, because it's been the same for 40 years. What keeps the Tories going is the youngsters becoming older & with it becoming Tories. People don't become Tories by argument or persuasion , because the left have the utopian dreams that are hard to argue against. You turn people into Tories by making them householders, business men, give them a stake in capitalism. Show them that free markets work for them, that's how people become Tories.

 

What will **** the Tories isn't the young voting, it's the middle aged people that still aren't on the housing ladder, that haven't had a decent pay rise and capitalism isn't working for. It would probably help if they were actually a Tory Government, rather than a Ted Heath tribute act.

 

 

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You sound like a Theresa May supporter - that was exactly her pitch.

[whelk]

Haven't looked back in thread so may have been discussed but are all the Tories happy with the grubby DUP deal? 30% more spend per head than rest of UK. Disgraceful IMO

[Nolan]

Haven't looked back in thread so may have been discussed but are all the Tories happy with the grubby DUP deal? 30% more spend per head than rest of UK. Disgraceful IMO

Given the alternative of another election, the fact that we needed to sort out Brexit and its exactly the same deal that Brown offered them in 2010 and Miliband offered them in 2015.

 

No issue with it whatsoever.

 

Ironic that labour suddenly have an issue with spending money. That wasn't apparent in their manifesto.

 

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[shurlock]

Given the alternative of another election, the fact that we needed to sort out Brexit and its exactly the same deal that Brown offered them in 2010 and Miliband offered them in 2015.

 

No issue with it whatsoever.

 

Ironic that labour suddenly have an issue with spending money. That wasn't apparent in their manifesto.

 

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"exactly the same deal"?

 

Did Brown and Miliband offer them £1bn+ and promise to get rid of commitments that only existed in the 2017 tory manifesto? No doubt you have a sky source for that too

[trousers]

Haven't looked back in thread so may have been discussed but are all the Tories happy with the grubby DUP deal? 30% more spend per head than rest of UK. Disgraceful IMO

# whataboutery klaxon #

 

Maybe its as 'grubby' as the deal Labour and/or the SNP were allegedly hatching with the DUP in 2010 and/or 2015?

[whelk]

Given the alternative of another election, the fact that we needed to sort out Brexit and its exactly the same deal that Brown offered them in 2010 and Miliband offered them in 2015.

 

No issue with it whatsoever.

 

Ironic that labour suddenly have an issue with spending money. That wasn't apparent in their manifesto.

 

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£1bn and sure to be more. we didn't need to spend though I would assume by your philosophy.

No issues with spending but fairly apportioned due to need not political survival.

[CB Fry]

If the Tories had offered up in the election what is on offer now then they'd have easily secured a decent majority.

 

Democracy is magic.

[shurlock]

# whataboutery klaxon #

 

Maybe its as 'grubby' as the deal Labour and/or the SNP were allegedly hatching with the DUP in 2010 and/or 2015?

 

I didn't know Labour was taking the fiscal high ground and accusing others of profligacy.

 

#magicmoneytree

[Nolan]

I didn't know Labour was taking the fiscal high ground and accusing others of profligacy.

 

#magicmoneytree

It's almost as if people on the left fail to grasp debt and deficit. And not over promising what can't be delivered.

 

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[shurlock]

It's almost as if people on the left fail to grasp debt and deficit. And not over promising what can't be delivered.

 

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I recall Buctootim making you look like a fool the last time you went down this path.

[Nolan]

I don't... Please share.

 

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[OldNick]

Exactly, the people that caused the debt should take more responsibility, instead of sitting in their million pound houses they 'paid for' telling kids they have to get 40k in debt to do a degree.

perhaps we should give free Uni education like the Scots. Im all for it, as long as it is on the Scot model. Only 15% get in and must have at least 3 grade A's to do so.

[Johnny Bognor]

perhaps we should give free Uni education like the Scots. Im all for it, as long as it is on the Scot model. Only 15% get in and must have at least 3 grade A's to do so.

 

I actually agree with this, but it won't sit well with the sense of entitlement that has been bred into the Post-Millennials...

if they want to study "Outer Mongolian Jazz from the 16th Century", they CAN... whilst someone else should HAVE to pay for it.

[hypochondriac]

University education should be free for the top achievers who take subjects where we need people such as the STEM fields. Gender studies, women's studies and other identity politics nonsense should be discouraged wherever possible.

[shurlock]

I actually agree with this, but it won't sit well with the sense of entitlement that has been bred into the Post-Millennials...

if they want to study "Outer Mongolian Jazz from the 16th Century", they CAN... whilst someone else should HAVE to pay for it.

 

Speak for yourself Baldrick. I, on the other hand, have a degree from the University of Life, a diploma from the School of Hard Knocks, and three gold stars from the Kindergarten of Getting the **** Kicked Out of Me.

[OldNick]

Speak for yourself Baldrick. I, on the other hand, have a degree from the University of Life, a diploma from the School of Hard Knocks, and three gold stars from the Kindergarten of Getting the **** Kicked Out of Me.

yeah but did you have to get a Student loan for that?

[shurlock]

A decent article

 

https://www.timeshighereducation.com/blog/we-need-talk-about-free-education

[OldNick]

A decent article

 

https://www.timeshighereducation.com/blog/we-need-talk-about-free-education

yes a very good article.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Haven't looked back in thread so may have been discussed but are all the Tories happy with the grubby DUP deal? 30% more spend per head than rest of UK. Disgraceful IMO

 

The rest of the UK, or England?

 

What is the amount of extra spending & self Government labour has bribed Jocksville & Wales with over the years?

 

 

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[Johnny Bognor]

.... and three gold stars from the Kindergarten of Getting the **** Kicked Out of Me.

 

Why does that not surprise me ;-)

[whelk]

The rest of the UK, or England?

 

What is the amount of extra spending & self Government labour has bribed Jocksville & Wales with over the years?

 

 

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Seems many of the responses refer to what about Labour? So what and I am not a party member and not defending other deals. Sure pragmatism is needed but fact is this stinks and whether the true blues genuinely think is ok as think it is scandalous bribery.

[buctootim]

What is the amount of extra spending & self Government labour has bribed Jocksville & Wales with over the years?

 

£0? The Barnett Formula was adopted by Margaret Thatcher.

[hypochondriac]

Seems many of the responses refer to what about Labour? So what and I am not a party member and not defending other deals. Sure pragmatism is needed but fact is this stinks and whether the true blues genuinely think is ok as think it is scandalous bribery.

It doesn't sit easily with me either but the alternative is much worse.

[Lord Duckhunter]

£0? The Barnett Formula was adopted by Margaret Thatcher.

 

Wow, that's amazing. A whole tier of devolved Government at no extra cost to the UK taxpayer. Perhaps we could have an English Parliament if the cost is £0

 

 

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[Lord Duckhunter]

Labour could still mess this up. The country do not like extremists from left or right and there are signs that Jezza & his supporters aren't exactly reaching out to moderates. Last night his supporters won control of a Liverpool Labour group .Winning nine out of 10 positions on the group’s executive committee their leader issued a statement about moderate MP Luciana Berger.

 

"Luciana needs to get on board quite quickly. She will now have to sit round the table with us the next time she wants to vote for bombing in Syria or to pass a no confidence motion in the leader of the party - she will have to be answerable to us.

 

“We would like her to come out publicly like other MPs have done and apologise for not supporting him in the past.”

 

Maybe some think this is ok and that member driven policy is good for democracy, but the Tory membership is half bonkers & labour's far far further left than the electorate. The MP's are by & large the sane ones. If the headbangers start driving the agenda they could over reach themselves and alienate the floating voters.

 

 

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Edited 6 July, 2017 by Lord Duckhunter

[Pamplemousse]

[Nolan]

I think I'm going to be sick...

 

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[Whitey Grandad]

 

Our new number 10?

[Nolan]

Our new number 10?

Sorry he only pays far left. Can't get close to the centre of the pitch so would never have a chance of scoring.

 

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[benjii]

Labour could still mess this up. The country do not like extremists from left or right and there are signs that Jezza & his supporters aren't exactly reaching out to moderates. Last night his supporters won control of a Liverpool Labour group .Winning nine out of 10 positions on the group’s executive committee their leader issued a statement about moderate MP Luciana Berger.

 

"Luciana needs to get on board quite quickly. She will now have to sit round the table with us the next time she wants to vote for bombing in Syria or to pass a no confidence motion in the leader of the party - she will have to be answerable to us.

 

“We would like her to come out publicly like other MPs have done and apologise for not supporting him in the past.”

 

Maybe some think this is ok and that member driven policy is good for democracy, but the Tory membership is half bonkers & labour's far far further left than the electorate. The MP's are by & large the sane ones. If the headbangers start driving the agenda they could over reach themselves and alienate the floating voters.

 

 

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Luciana Berger's a Jew so they probably aren't all that keen on her.

[Nolan]

Luciana Berger's a Jew so they probably aren't all that keen on her.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/06/hard-lefts-attack-luciana-berger-shows-unsavoury-elements/

 

Don't know what you mean

 

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[Jonnyboy]

Fantastic crowd, great speech. Get on board the bus people!

[Nolan]

Fantastic crowd, great speech. Get on board the bus people!

Bus leaving for Venezuela any time soon...

 

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[Verbal]

Fantastic crowd, great speech. Get on board the bus people!

 

But get off the damned bus now if you're Jewish, right fanboy? Or if you voice any dissent aimed at St Jeremy, even if you've been a Labour member or supporter or voter for years.

 

Corbyn meanwhile sails on in his usual cynical, unprincipled way. It used to be said that Blair was about as far right as anyone could imagine the left could be, until Corbyn came along and adopted UKIP's policy on Brexit.

 

It used to be said that no one in the Labour party would be seen dead snuggling up to Islamophobes, until Corbyn happily has dinner and poses for selfies with a prominent conspiracy loon who says the Srebrenica massacre in 1995 never happened, despite the overwhelming evidence that 8,000 Muslim-Bosnian men and boys were systematically slaughtered by Serbian paramilitaries.

 

Etc, ad ****ing nauseum.

 

There actually was a pretty good article by Blair today, pointing out that Brexit followed by Corbyn would bring this country to its knees. It's striking how so many Corbynistas have reacted with white-eyed fury, denouncing Blair as the voice of purest evil. I haven't read one response yet, arguing that Blair is actually wrong.

[Lord Duckhunter]

 

Should have Corbyn 56 on the back,as a reminder of how many seats he was behind the "loser " of the election

 

 

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[shurlock]

Should have Corbyn 56 on the back,as a reminder of how many seats he was behind the "loser " of the election

 

 

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I can see you breaking out into a spontaneous rendition of "oh jeremy corbyn" before long pal.

[shurlock]

But get off the damned bus now if you're Jewish, right fanboy? Or if you voice any dissent aimed at St Jeremy, even if you've been a Labour member or supporter or voter for years.

 

Corbyn meanwhile sails on in his usual cynical, unprincipled way. It used to be said that Blair was about as far right as anyone could imagine the left could be, until Corbyn came along and adopted UKIP's policy on Brexit.

 

It used to be said that no one in the Labour party would be seen dead snuggling up to Islamophobes, until Corbyn happily has dinner and poses for selfies with a prominent conspiracy loon who says the Srebrenica massacre in 1995 never happened, despite the overwhelming evidence that 8,000 Muslim-Bosnian men and boys were systematically slaughtered by Serbian paramilitaries.

 

Etc, ad ****ing nauseum.

 

There actually was a pretty good article by Blair today, pointing out that Brexit followed by Corbyn would bring this country to its knees. It's striking how so many Corbynistas have reacted with white-eyed fury, denouncing Blair as the voice of purest evil. I haven't read one response yet, arguing that Blair is actually wrong.

 

I thought James Schneider and Jon Lansman were the ticket inspectors?

Edited 15 July, 2017 by shurlock

[Jonnyboy]

But get off the damned bus now if you're Jewish, right fanboy? Or if you voice any dissent aimed at St Jeremy, even if you've been a Labour member or supporter or voter for years.

 

Corbyn meanwhile sails on in his usual cynical, unprincipled way. It used to be said that Blair was about as far right as anyone could imagine the left could be, until Corbyn came along and adopted UKIP's policy on Brexit.

 

It used to be said that no one in the Labour party would be seen dead snuggling up to Islamophobes, until Corbyn happily has dinner and poses for selfies with a prominent conspiracy loon who says the Srebrenica massacre in 1995 never happened, despite the overwhelming evidence that 8,000 Muslim-Bosnian men and boys were systematically slaughtered by Serbian paramilitaries.

 

Etc, ad ****ing nauseum.

 

There actually was a pretty good article by Blair today, pointing out that Brexit followed by Corbyn would bring this country to its knees. It's striking how so many Corbynistas have reacted with white-eyed fury, denouncing Blair as the voice of purest evil. I haven't read one response yet, arguing that Blair is actually wrong.

 

Lol, it doesn't matter how many twisted, false accusations you try to pin on Corbyn. You and your mate Tony are on the wrong side of history and always will be. Thanks to his war you are neck deep in innocent blood.