Hockey_saint Posted 14 May, 2020 Share Posted 14 May, 2020 Rodney I’m sure there are loads of Rodneys knocking about the toffs and upper middle classes. Pure blue blood that is. At least his middle name isn't Charlton Athletic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 14 May, 2020 Share Posted 14 May, 2020 The point is: it seems the argument for a nanny or a cleaner to come around as opposed to parents come from another world; certainly not one that most of those northern working class voters would be familiar with and would say "if Mr Rich man can have a stranger come around and do the jobs he can't be bothered to do, why can't I see my parents?" it's an emotive issue and I understand how that may come as alien to some in government and they probably think nothing of having a nanny or a cleaner but it just doesn't chime with most people in this country.....it's kinda like one of the first industries allowed to open up being estate agents...who's main job is going into people's houses. It just seems very 80's. So still no answer. I bet Sir Kier has a cleaner, do you think she should continue to work or not? It’s not that tough a question Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockey_saint Posted 14 May, 2020 Share Posted 14 May, 2020 So still no answer. I bet Sir Kier has a cleaner, do you think she should continue to work or not? It’s not that tough a question Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Not quite getting it are you Ducky? Starmer didn't make up this rule did he? If a Labour leader made up that rule you'd be up in arms with disgust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 14 May, 2020 Share Posted 14 May, 2020 So still no answer. I bet Sir Kier has a cleaner, do you think she should continue to work or not? It’s not that tough a question Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk You bet he does, but you don’t know for a fact. Perhaps find out and report back so that we can actually deal with the fact? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 15 May, 2020 Share Posted 15 May, 2020 Not quite getting it are you Ducky? Starmer didn't make up this rule did he? If a Labour leader made up that rule you'd be up in arms with disgust. Let’s try once more. What is wrong with the rule? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 15 May, 2020 Share Posted 15 May, 2020 Are you suggesting that parties should not appoint the best candidate but positively discriminate based on sex and race?I think we can only conclude that Ducky believes that Thatcher and May did not secure the leadership of the Conservative party because they were the strongest candidates at the time but because the institution of the party decided that those two women deserved the job specifically because of their gender. I look forward to seeing Lord D's absolutely genuine passion for the role of positive discrimination in breaking down the barriers of gender equality coming through in the coming months and years. Fantastic progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted 15 May, 2020 Share Posted 15 May, 2020 Not quite getting it are you Ducky? Starmer didn't make up this rule did he? If a Labour leader made up that rule you'd be up in arms with disgust. Not sure if you're 'getting it' to be fair. The law that was enacted has been quite clear from day 1, you are allowed to go to work and continue to work if you absolutely cannot carry out the work from your own home and your place of work has not been instructed to close. So there is nothing to stop nannies and cleaners in private homes from continuing to work. That's the law that was enacted and isn't open for debate. Not sure why you've chosen to pick on nannies and cleaners in houses, what about plumbers, plasterers, painters, decorators, gardeners, you don't appear to be lambasting them.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 15 May, 2020 Share Posted 15 May, 2020 Not sure if you're 'getting it' to be fair. The law that was enacted has been quite clear from day 1, you are allowed to go to work and continue to work if you absolutely cannot carry out the work from your own home and your place of work has not been instructed to close. So there is nothing to stop nannies and cleaners in private homes from continuing to work. That's the law that was enacted and isn't open for debate. Not sure why you've chosen to pick on nannies and cleaners in houses, what about plumbers, plasterers, painters, decorators, gardeners, you don't appear to be lambasting them....Erm actually that's inaccurate. If by nannies you mean childminders, they are allowed to look after children only if they are from one household. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 15 May, 2020 Share Posted 15 May, 2020 Are you suggesting that parties should not appoint the best candidate but positively discriminate based on sex and race? I wouldn't suggest that myself, but which party is the one that favours positive discrimination in many other areas? Is it Labour by any chance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockey_saint Posted 15 May, 2020 Share Posted 15 May, 2020 Let’s try once more. What is wrong with the rule? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Because it sends out the wrong signal for a party trying to attach itself to the working class of Britain. Most of whom don't have nannies or cleaners. It's just an example of how removed from the "working man" the right of the Conservative party are. Did Thacher's parents have a nanny? A greengrocer? I wouldn't have thought so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 15 May, 2020 Share Posted 15 May, 2020 Is attempting to belittle other people all you have as far as an argument goes? Oh dear. Says the hypocrite who calls Hague and Boris silly playground names as the basis for his argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockey_saint Posted 15 May, 2020 Share Posted 15 May, 2020 Oh dear. Says the hypocrite who calls Hague and Boris silly playground names as the basis for his argument. Not quite getting the difference between talking about public figures not on this board and personally insulting those that are are you? Oh dear indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockey_saint Posted 15 May, 2020 Share Posted 15 May, 2020 Not quite getting the difference between talking about public figures not on this board and personally insulting those that are are you? Oh dear indeed. And if you take insulting Boris Johnson or William Hague as a personal insult, that says more about you than anyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamesaint Posted 15 May, 2020 Share Posted 15 May, 2020 Oh dear. Says the hypocrite who calls Hague and Boris silly playground names as the basis for his argument. Does that mean that you are going to stop with the silly playground names?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 15 May, 2020 Share Posted 15 May, 2020 I wouldn't suggest that myself, but which party is the one that favours positive discrimination in many other areas? Is it Labour by any chance? Yes, maybe that's why there are plenty of females in important roles the shadow cabinet, or maybe they are just the best people for the job. Either way I'm not sure why Starmer being leader is an issue, he was obviously the stand out candidate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cat Posted 15 May, 2020 Share Posted 15 May, 2020 Whatever people think about Starmer the important fact remains that his experience, knowledge and intelligence will be vital in holding the Government to account in a far more pertinent and useful way than Corbyn ever could. It's vital to have a strong opposition whether you agree with them or not. Starmer's strength will be in asking the right questions and holding the Government to account. The Tories knew they could pretty much ignore Corbyn because after his initial surge in popularity he quickly became an irrelevance to the wider public and an inconvenience to the Labour party who wasted years floundering under his leadership. Things are different now and I'm looking forward to a stronger opposition leader taking the Government on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 15 May, 2020 Share Posted 15 May, 2020 Whatever people think about Starmer the important fact remains that his experience, knowledge and intelligence will be vital in holding the Government to account in a far more pertinent and useful way than Corbyn ever could. It's vital to have a strong opposition whether you agree with them or not. Starmer's strength will be in asking the right questions and holding the Government to account. The Tories knew they could pretty much ignore Corbyn because after his initial surge in popularity he quickly became an irrelevance to the wider public and an inconvenience to the Labour party who wasted years floundering under his leadership. Things are different now and I'm looking forward to a stronger opposition leader taking the Government on. I like Starmer, he comes across very well and it's good to see Labour have a competent leader. I find it quite hilarious some of the staunch lefties i am friends with on social media who were massive Corbynites havent taken to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecuk268 Posted 15 May, 2020 Share Posted 15 May, 2020 I like Starmer, he comes across very well and it's good to see Labour have a competent leader. I find it quite hilarious some of the staunch lefties i am friends with on social media who were massive Corbynites havent taken to him. I often think that those on the far left and far right don't actually want their parties to be elected. They enjoy sitting on the sidelines moaning about the "traitors" in the rest of the party and not having to take responsibility for anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockey_saint Posted 15 May, 2020 Share Posted 15 May, 2020 I often think that those on the far left and far right don't actually want their parties to be elected. They enjoy sitting on the sidelines moaning about the "traitors" in the rest of the party and not having to take responsibility for anything. They almost amalgamate into one group don't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 15 May, 2020 Share Posted 15 May, 2020 I have an old friend who would probably describe himself as a Marxist and was a staunch Corbyn supporter from day 1. He has not said a peep about Starmer. He has the air of someone who could get Labour elected and you would think that would be a good thing! I think the far left worry that he is another Blair but I think he will carve out his own place in the party. If they are going to get elected they need to appeal to middle England and those who shy away from more centrist politics will just have to compromise otherwise it will be another 5 years in the wilderness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockey_saint Posted 15 May, 2020 Share Posted 15 May, 2020 I have an old friend who would probably describe himself as a Marxist and was a staunch Corbyn supporter from day 1. He has not said a peep about Starmer. He has the air of someone who could get Labour elected and you would think that would be a good thing! I think the far left worry that he is another Blair but I think he will carve out his own place in the party. If they are going to get elected they need to appeal to middle England and those who shy away from more centrist politics will just have to compromise otherwise it will be another 5 years in the wilderness. I think with positive reviews from the Daily Telegraph, that seems to be what he's doing...It's really the only way. The fact that Labour (whilst, yes, was created to give the unions a voice in parliament) was made up of liberals and social democrats along with socialists seems to have passed a few of them by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cat Posted 15 May, 2020 Share Posted 15 May, 2020 I like Starmer, he comes across very well and it's good to see Labour have a competent leader. I find it quite hilarious some of the staunch lefties i am friends with on social media who were massive Corbynites havent taken to him. I couldn't stand Gordon Strachan and was quite annoyed when he became Saints manager. Turned out alright in the end though. I know a fair few Tory voters who think Boris is a bit of a buffoon. They'll still vote for him though. If your friends don't agree with Starmer or the direction he takes the party they can either carry on voting Labour because to them it's a better alternative to the Tories, or they can support the SWP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 15 May, 2020 Share Posted 15 May, 2020 Because it sends out the wrong signal for a party trying to attach itself to the working class of Britain. Most of whom don't have nannies or cleaners. It's just an example of how removed from the "working man" the right of the Conservative party are. Did Thacher's parents have a nanny? A greengrocer? I wouldn't have thought so. You’re still not answering the question. You said it’s wrong that cleaners can visit your house but parents can’t. It’s not about the “message it sends out”, that’s just pony. You spouted off that it’s wrong that a cleaner can visit for house, but not your parents. It’s very simple, you either think it’s wrong that the cleaner can visit, or it’s wrong that your parents can’t. Which is it? It’s starting to look like you’re just ranting about the government and like a typical leftie, don’t really know why. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cat Posted 15 May, 2020 Share Posted 15 May, 2020 If a cleaner can carry out their work while socially distancing then they are entitled to under government rules because that is their place of employment. It's also important to get people like them back to work and getting paid. Most cleaners also operate in empty houses. To be fair you'd be pretty lazy if you were working from home or furloughed and still wanted to pay a cleaner! Parents is a tricky one. I'm guessing most parents of posters on here will be over 70 and therefore vulnerable. I wouldn't want to take the virus asymptomatically into their house but I could meet them individually outside where the risk is less if they were happy to do so. If people stick to the guidance I'm sure it won't be that long until we are allowed to visit them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 15 May, 2020 Share Posted 15 May, 2020 Not quite getting the difference between talking about public figures not on this board and personally insulting those that are are you? Oh dear indeed. So let's get this straight; according to you, it's OK to hurl childish insults at public figures on here, but one can't express an opinion on posters here when one believes that they are being stupid/childish/hypocritical/wrong. It seems to me that you like to dish it out, but can't take it back. And where did I say that I took insults aimed at Hague and Boris personally? You're all over the place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockey_saint Posted 15 May, 2020 Share Posted 15 May, 2020 (edited) So let's get this straight; according to you, it's OK to hurl childish insults at public figures on here, but one can't express an opinion on posters here when one believes that they are being stupid/childish/hypocritical/wrong. It seems to me that you like to dish it out, but can't take it back. And where did I say that I took insults aimed at Hague and Boris personally? You're all over the place. You're clearly taking insults to your heroes very personally. "all over the place" all you right wingers do is hurl personal insults, if someone disagrees with you....they're an idiot....if they say something you don't like....they're all over the place. But let's get something straight, if someone has a differing opinion from your right-wing mindset, they are not stupid, that's just you being insulting and a hypocrite. Edited 15 May, 2020 by Hockey_saint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamesaint Posted 15 May, 2020 Share Posted 15 May, 2020 You're clearly taking insults to your heroes very personally. "all over the place" all you right wingers do is hurl personal insults, if someone disagrees with you....they're an idiot....if they say something you don't like....they're all over the place. ... and if you are Keir Starmer you are "Keir Smarmy." Wes takes hypocrisy to new levels !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockey_saint Posted 15 May, 2020 Share Posted 15 May, 2020 ... and if you are Keir Starmer you are "Keir Smarmy." Wes takes hypocrisy to new levels !! Exactly...but that's fine because he's not one of his heroes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 15 May, 2020 Share Posted 15 May, 2020 Does that mean that you are going to stop with the silly playground names?? No, especially as it annoys you. It is very seldom that I use it against other posters, and if you are offended by me for my usage of Lib Dumbs, the Chinese virus, stuff like that, then my heart bleeds for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamesaint Posted 15 May, 2020 Share Posted 15 May, 2020 It doesnt annoy me Bender. I just feel sorry for you. Calling Hockey out for childish names reveals you to be a massive hypocrite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 15 May, 2020 Share Posted 15 May, 2020 (edited) No, especially as it annoys you. It is very seldom that I use it against other posters, and if you are offended by me for my usage of Lib Dumbs, the Chinese virus, stuff like that, then my heart bleeds for you. Do you not realise it just shows you as a massive bellend Wes? Genuinely. I'm not even trying to insult you, its just how you come across to others. What is so painful about acknowledging that Starmer is a big upgrade on Corbyn and that it is important for any country's democracy to have effective opposition? It would mark you out as something more than blindly tribal and narrow. Edited 15 May, 2020 by buctootim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockey_saint Posted 15 May, 2020 Share Posted 15 May, 2020 No, especially as it annoys you. It is very seldom that I use it against other posters, and if you are offended by me for my usage of Lib Dumbs, the Chinese virus, stuff like that, then my heart bleeds for you. But you seem to get very offended very quickly when someone has a pop at your tory-boy idols. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted 15 May, 2020 Share Posted 15 May, 2020 Erm actually that's inaccurate. If by nannies you mean childminders, they are allowed to look after children only if they are from one household. Erm actually it's not inaccurate. By 'nanny' I meant 'nanny' : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanny However, I assume the point you are making is still the same as they work typically in one household with children from that household..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 15 May, 2020 Share Posted 15 May, 2020 Do you not realise it just marks you out as massive bellend Wes? Genuinely. I'm not even trying to insult you, its just how you come across to others. What is so painful about acknowledging that Starmer is a massive upgrade on Corbyn and that it is important for any country's democracy to have effective opposition? It would mark you out as something more than blindly tribal and narrow. Where have I said that Starmer is not an upgrade on the Marxist? Where have I stated that it doesn't matter whether the country has a strong opposition? I didn't, did I? I agree that expressing those opinions would mark me out as blindly tribal and narrow, but as I've never expressed those opinions, the charges don't apply, do they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 15 May, 2020 Share Posted 15 May, 2020 (edited) Where have I said that Starmer is not an upgrade on the Marxist? Where have I stated that it doesn't matter whether the country has a strong opposition? I didn't, did I? I agree that expressing those opinions would mark me out as blindly tribal and narrow, but as I've never expressed those opinions, the charges don't apply, do they? "I never not said them fings. I just never did. Totally different. Totes. Honest" Edited 15 May, 2020 by buctootim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 15 May, 2020 Share Posted 15 May, 2020 But you seem to get very offended very quickly when someone has a pop at your tory-boy idols. You flatter yourself if you think that you insulting Tories offends me. I don't know you from Adam, and this is an anonymous football forum. You are entitled to express your opinions, and I am entitled to ignore them or disparage them, or express similar opinions about your leftie heroes. Get a grip on reality, mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 15 May, 2020 Share Posted 15 May, 2020 Break out of the straight jacket you've neatly stitched yourself into. It would make you less predictable and dull. You couldn't find me saying either of those things, so you're floundering as usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 15 May, 2020 Share Posted 15 May, 2020 (edited) Les laughed at me for wanting Sir Keir Smarmy as Labour leader - I must say I'm very happy with the choice #playingablinder Edited 15 May, 2020 by shurlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockey_saint Posted 15 May, 2020 Share Posted 15 May, 2020 You flatter yourself if you think that you insulting Tories offends me. I don't know you from Adam, and this is an anonymous football forum. You are entitled to express your opinions, and I am entitled to ignore them or disparage them, or express similar opinions about your leftie heroes. Get a grip on reality, mate. You were clearly getting hot and flustered with anything that resembles a negative comment about Boris or Hague....And then you go and refer to Corbyn as "the Marxist"....you just can't help yourself can you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 15 May, 2020 Share Posted 15 May, 2020 You were clearly getting hot and flustered with anything that resembles a negative comment about Boris or Hague....And then you go and refer to Corbyn as "the Marxist"....you just can't help yourself can you? Of course, when isn't Les hot under the collar and flustered? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 15 May, 2020 Share Posted 15 May, 2020 Les laughed at me for wanting Sir Keir Smarmy as Labour leader - I must say I'm very happy with the choice #playingablinder Maybe you'll have the last laugh in 4 and a half years. Maybe Labour will eventually have cleansed themselves of the Momentum extremists by then,and provided that they don't campaign as the party to reapply to rejoin the EU, they might then stand a chance of being electable. I reckon that any smugness over Starmer might be tempered by your admiration for Adonis, which rather counts against you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 15 May, 2020 Share Posted 15 May, 2020 (edited) Maybe you'll have the last laugh in 4 and a half years. Maybe Labour will eventually have cleansed themselves of the Momentum extremists by then,and provided that they don't campaign as the party to reapply to rejoin the EU, they might then stand a chance of being electable. I reckon that any smugness over Starmer might be tempered by your admiration for Adonis, which rather counts against you. Admiration for Adonis? Do I agree with his position on the EU? No. That’s patently clear from my posting history. Do I respect his life story - someone who grew up in a care home, overcame significant odds and has had an important impact on public life e.g. Academy schools that is genuinely bipartisan and has been applauded by Conservatives and Labour alike. Yes. You seemingly don’t and count it against me but as others point out that says more about your fanaticism, tribalism and lack of generosity pal. Edited 15 May, 2020 by shurlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 15 May, 2020 Share Posted 15 May, 2020 You were clearly getting hot and flustered with anything that resembles a negative comment about Boris or Hague....And then you go and refer to Corbyn as "the Marxist"....you just can't help yourself can you? I've told you that I am totally dismissive of your comments about either of those politicians. In other words, I really couldn't give a damn what you think of them. Do please allow yourself the time for that to sink in. Isn't Corbyn a Marxist? What political philosophy do you think he follows? You sound a bit hot and flustered me calling him that. Is he a hero of yours? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockey_saint Posted 15 May, 2020 Share Posted 15 May, 2020 I've told you that I am totally dismissive of your comments about either of those politicians. In other words, I really couldn't give a damn what you think of them. Do please allow yourself the time for that to sink in. Isn't Corbyn a Marxist? What political philosophy do you think he follows? You sound a bit hot and flustered me calling him that. Is he a hero of yours? Clearly it's getting to you. Why don't you ask Corbyn what he believes in? He's pro-Palestine for sure....associated himself with people involved with terrorism for sure (but then, name me a politician in the UK who hasn't?) an old man? yup, rubbish at PMQs for sure.......but I suspect also your knowledge of Marxism is probably quite lacking to be able to use it as some sort of an insult.....which you were clearly attempting to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted 15 May, 2020 Share Posted 15 May, 2020 Admiration for Adonis? Do I agree with his position on the EU? No. That’s patently clear from my posting history. Do I respect his life story - someone who grew up in a care home, How old was he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 16 May, 2020 Share Posted 16 May, 2020 How old was he? At what age? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 16 May, 2020 Share Posted 16 May, 2020 Clearly it's getting to you. /QUOTE] Believe what you want, if it makes you feel good. Me, I couldn't care a toss what you think, as I've already told you, although it doesn't seem to penetrate. You can continue to call Boris and Hague names, and I'll do the same with any politicians I want. Isn't that fair? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 16 May, 2020 Share Posted 16 May, 2020 Interesting article in The Mail online about the Welsh health & social care response to Covid, which of course is devolved & run by Welsh Labour. Let’s hope Sir Kier is “ forensic” when asking Mark Drakeford about those failings. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted 16 May, 2020 Share Posted 16 May, 2020 At what age? When he grew up in a care home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockey_saint Posted 16 May, 2020 Share Posted 16 May, 2020 Interesting article in The Mail online about the Welsh health & social care response to Covid, which of course is devolved & run by Welsh Labour. Let’s hope Sir Kier is “ forensic” when asking Mark Drakeford about those failings. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk He'd probably just ask who hands down the money they get or don't get....and the Mail? Really impartial paper that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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