All things Labour Party

[Lord Duckhunter]

  On 26/06/2020 at 23:57, Hockey_saint said:

Shall we not quibble about the definition of Semitic person? Whilst I didn't particularly care for Corbyn and agree that getting rid of this Bailey woman was probably the best thing to do, it might be a stretch for you to claim he agreed with Corbyn's views of Israel. Corbyn supporters seem sure he stabbed him in the back so perhaps he wasn't completely down with it either.

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He campaigned to get an anti Semite into Downing Street. 

[aintforever]

This was definitely a good move by Starmer. What Long-Bailey did wasn’t even mildly anti-Semitic but he needed to send the right message.

[Baird of the land]

  On 27/06/2020 at 10:56, aintforever said:

This was definitely a good move by Starmer. What Long-Bailey did wasn’t even mildly anti-Semitic but he needed to send the right message.

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I can see when anti-israel sentiment crosses the line into conspiracy theories about their role in Us policing methods that some can see it as having anti-semitic roots.

As you say Starmer had to send a message and Long Bailey made it so he only really had one choice. I do if she was sort of relieved get out shadow cabinet and be able to lead left wing faction freely.

[Weston Super Saint]

  On 27/06/2020 at 10:56, aintforever said:

This was definitely a good move by Starmer. What Long-Bailey did wasn’t even mildly anti-Semitic but he needed to send the right message.

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So is the message "don't do anything wrong at all and be removed from the shadow cabinet"?

Edited 27 June, 2020 by Weston Super Saint
.

[aintforever]

  On 27/06/2020 at 13:37, Weston Super Saint said:

So is the message "don't do anything wrong at all and be removed from the shadow cabinet"?

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More “steer clear of the Israeli/anti-Semitic hornets nest because however innocent the gutter press will only ever spin it one way”.

[rallyboy]

I think she was guilty of stupidity.

Even if she didn't intend anti-semitism, opposition MPs can't go around making up stuff and repeating false claims - that's the role of Government.

 

[hypochondriac]

  On 27/06/2020 at 14:29, rallyboy said:

I think she was guilty of stupidity.

Even if she didn't intend anti-semitism, opposition MPs can't go around making up stuff and repeating false claims - that's the role of Government.

 

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Largely agree. Knowing the history of all this you should be checking everything you tweet out and avoiding contentious topics on Israel (or employing people to check it for you.)

[The Kraken]

  On 27/06/2020 at 14:29, rallyboy said:

I think she was guilty of stupidity.

Even if she didn't intend anti-semitism, opposition MPs can't go around making up stuff and repeating false claims - that's the role of Government.

 

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From what I gather RLB refused to delete her tweet (still hasn’t) which gave Starmer no choice really.

[whelk]

First rule of leadership is go in hard and make an example of someone. Good on him as she is fcking annoying anyway and it upsets Len McCluskey. 

[Hockey_saint]

  On 27/06/2020 at 09:42, Lord Duckhunter said:

He campaigned to get an anti Semite into Downing Street. 

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So by your definition everyone in the Labour party is guilty of that then? You campaigned to get a man who's made some highly offensive comments about blacks, gays and scores of others in.

[Lord Duckhunter]

  On 27/06/2020 at 16:34, Hockey_saint said:

You campaigned to get a man who's made some highly offensive comments about blacks, gays and scores of others in.

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Campaigned did I? That’s news to me. 

[Hockey_saint]

  On 27/06/2020 at 16:43, Lord Duckhunter said:

Campaigned did I? That’s news to me. 

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I meant you as a Tory supporter but it's fair to say you're a regular at campaigning for them on here.

[hypochondriac]

  On 27/06/2020 at 14:47, whelk said:

First rule of leadership is go in hard and make an example of someone. Good on him as she is fcking annoying anyway and it upsets Len McCluskey. 

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Agree with every word. 

[Tamesaint]

  On 27/06/2020 at 09:40, Lord Duckhunter said:

 

 

A leftie now seems to think that having a Beatle In your profile is “doing a Clarkson”. Everything is political to some people. They see political statements in every little thing. 

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Lol. Hilarious. Pure Clarkson.                  

Edited 27 June, 2020 by Tamesaint

[Tamesaint]

Sir Kier playing a blinder.

 

Starmer overtakes Johnson as preferred choice for prime minister https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jun/27/starmer-overtakes-johnson-as-preferred-choice-for-prime-minister?

[Earthworm Jim]

  On 28/06/2020 at 05:51, Tamesaint said:

Sir Kier playing a blinder.

 

Starmer overtakes Johnson as preferred choice for prime minister https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jun/27/starmer-overtakes-johnson-as-preferred-choice-for-prime-minister?

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I think the Conservatives are already planning a contingency for life without Boris - internally they are very unimpressed with him. 

[Wes Tender]

  On 28/06/2020 at 05:51, Tamesaint said:

Sir Kier playing a blinder.

 

Starmer overtakes Johnson as preferred choice for prime minister https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jun/27/starmer-overtakes-johnson-as-preferred-choice-for-prime-minister?

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What exactly is the significance of this poll when there is over 4 years until an election has to take place? It isn't anything abnormal for the incumbent party and leader to be behind in the polls in the early stages of a new government, provided that Corbyn isn't the opposition leader. And then it isn't normal for the government to be facing anything akin to the Chinese virus either. A lot of the polling decisions will be based on that situation alone and many will have been influenced to vote Starmer based on the government's handling of the pandemic, not having the faintest idea whether Starmer would have handled it differently/better.

Instead of wetting yourself with excitement at this extremely early stage of the current parliament, I suggest that you wait another four years before assessing the performance and electability of Starmer/Labour.

[whelk]

Ed Miliband seems to have far more passion and presence than previously. If I didn’t know better I’d say a leader in waiting

Edited 28 June, 2020 by whelk

[Earthworm Jim]

  On 28/06/2020 at 08:33, Wes Tender said:

What exactly is the significance of this poll when there is over 4 years until an election has to take place? It isn't anything abnormal for the incumbent party and leader to be behind in the polls in the early stages of a new government, provided that Corbyn isn't the opposition leader. And then it isn't normal for the government to be facing anything akin to the Chinese virus either. A lot of the polling decisions will be based on that situation alone and many will have been influenced to vote Starmer based on the government's handling of the pandemic, not having the faintest idea whether Starmer would have handled it differently/better.

Instead of wetting yourself with excitement at this extremely early stage of the current parliament, I suggest that you wait another four years before assessing the performance and electability of Starmer/Labour.

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I would guess the relevance is that within 7 months of the biggest Tory victory for 32 years Boris is fading fast. He carries on like that and he won't last the full term.

[The Cat]

  On 28/06/2020 at 08:40, whelk said:

Ed Miliband seems to have far more passion and presence than previously. If I didn’t know better I’d say a leader in waiting

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Yeah, but can he eat a bacon sandwich normally now because otherwise he's obviously totally unelectable. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

[ecuk268]

  On 28/06/2020 at 06:23, Earthworm Jim said:

I think the Conservatives are already planning a contingency for life without Boris - internally they are very unimpressed with him. 

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They're not normally shy about getting rid of their leader.

They dumped Thatcher pretty quick when she started to go a bit bonkers.

[Hockey_saint]

Margin of error there Ducky. Keep clinging; you were 24 points in the lead a couple of months ago and Starmer has just overtaken Boris in the popularity polls. Plus, here's another one suggesting both Labour and the Cons are losing out to the greens and the libs....can't really see that either.

Edited 28 June, 2020 by Hockey_saint

[Tamesaint]

  On 28/06/2020 at 12:21, Hockey_saint said:

Margin of error there Ducky. Keep clinging; you were 24 points in the lead a couple of months ago and Starmer has just overtaken Boris in the popularity polls. Plus, here's another one suggesting both Labour and the Cons are losing out to the greens and the libs....can't really see that either.

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Ssssh! Don't quote polls. Wes gets upset if you do and will accuse you of "wetting yourself".

[Jonnyboy]

  On 27/06/2020 at 09:42, Lord Duckhunter said:

He campaigned to get an anti Semite into Downing Street. 

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Read this from a Jew.... But maybe you think it's the wrong kind of Jew? 

Excellent thread on Twitter from @Prolapsarian:

"There is a deep antisemitism in the assumption that all Jews must support Israel, that we want the same answers, and that we collectively share a set of political beliefs. There is more antisemitism in the idea of appeasing 'the Jews' than in most of the supposed antisemitism that is condemned in the name of appeasing us.

"The instrumentalisation of accusations of antisemitism for cheap political gain demonstrates how little they actually care for us. There is little more dangerous to Jews than the promotion of the belief that criticism of violent policies derived from the Israeli policing of Palestinian lives is itself antisemitic.

"The treatment of Palestinians, not only in the prison of Gaza, but in the occupied West Bank, in enormous refugee camps across the Middle East, and as second-class citizens within Israel, has been a laboratory of racist and violent social control.

"The mass murder, displacement, ghettoisation, pogroms, and day-to-day violence meted out to the Palestinians both by Israeli state forces and by the unofficial state forces of settler mobs has been the experimentum crucis [crucial experiment] for the global suppression of resistant populations in the name of 'security'.

"Whether or not this tactic or that tactic is derived from Krav Maga, whether or not the knee on the neck of George Floyd and the arm around the neck of Ahmad Abu Sbitan have some traceable relationship in the grand history of how to choke the innocent is, in this sense, irrelevant. The Israeli state does export training its tactics of violent social control, including to American police forces – whether they are federal, state level, or city police.

"The methods of policing Palestinians are sold; the deaths of Palestinians are made into mere exemplars of what other governments can do should they wish to purchase the results of these experiments, and repeat them in their own cities. What the hell else do people think US police forces are buying when they get training from the IDF?

"So when you propose that I, as a Jew, should want you to be silent on these questions; that I, as a Jew, should want you to silence others on these questions, you engage in the most fearsome antisemitism. When you associate me with that knee on that neck, when you apologise for the grand history of choking the innocent in my name, it is you who is antisemitic.

"In the mean time, most of us, who have hearts, support the resistance. Black lives matter. We will fight against the histories that produce the violences against them. We will stand together against racist state violence. We will be clear that it is not us who make each Palestinian death into a mere exemplar or specimen, but the sale of the tactics of state killing, which sees one killing and asks how another can be committed. We understand that what is being sold is not just a tactic but precisely this abstraction of murdered Palestinians.

"This needs to end. If you think you are saving me from antisemitism by associating me with this bullshit, then you are completely wrong. I can’t even express how furious I am."N

[Wes Tender]

  On 28/06/2020 at 12:35, Tamesaint said:

Ssssh! Don't quote polls. Wes gets upset if you do and will accuse you of "wetting yourself".

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I suggest that you read what I said in my last post on polls and try and concentrate really hard and let it slowly penetrate. The realisation will then dawn on you that the same thing applies to polls expressing the opinion that show the Government performing well or poorly; that is that they are all pretty irrelevant when there are four years to go before the only poll that really matters, the next general election.

Edited 29 June, 2020 by Wes Tender

[Earthworm Jim]

  On 29/06/2020 at 08:02, Wes Tender said:

I suggest that you read what I said in my last post on polls and try and concentrate really hard and let it slowly penetrate. The realisation will then dawn on you that the same thing applies to polls expressing the opinion that show the Government performing well or poorly; that is that they are all pretty irrelevant when there are four years to go before the only poll that really matters, the next general election.

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It seems like Ducky prefers polls to yourself then.

Serious question though; how do you judge public perception on a Government mid-term?

[Tamesaint]

  On 29/06/2020 at 09:33, Earthworm Jim said:

It seems like Ducky prefers polls to yourself then.

Serious question though; how do you judge public perception on a Government mid-term?

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Ducky disagrees with him. Pollsters disagree with him. The people who commission the polls disagree with him.... but then it is Les that we are talking about.

 

[Earthworm Jim]

  On 29/06/2020 at 10:37, Tamesaint said:

Ducky disagrees with him. Pollsters disagree with him. The people who commission the polls disagree with him.... but then it is Les that we are talking about.

 

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Oh, OK, is Wes known for being a little bit off the mark then? 

[Wes Tender]

  On 29/06/2020 at 09:33, Earthworm Jim said:

It seems like Ducky prefers polls to yourself then.

Serious question though; how do you judge public perception on a Government mid-term?

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I expect that LD probably posted that poll just to contradict the other one.

Regarding your "serious" question,  then there are several methods that a government might employ to gauge its popularity, polls being just one of them. But as I pointed out, it isn't even anywhere close to mid-term at the moment, and in any event, the outcomes of the Chinese pandemic and the Brexit negotiations and the consequences of how both are handled will have an impact on polling returns, so it is really stupid to attach too much significance on them at this very early stage.  In any event, my cynicism towards the flaws in polling, the size of sample, geographic demographic of those polled, potential bias inherent in the question, has been stated several times before.

 

[Wes Tender]

  On 29/06/2020 at 10:37, Tamesaint said:

Ducky disagrees with him. Pollsters disagree with him. The people who commission the polls disagree with him.... but then it is Les that we are talking about.

 

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Where has anybody disagreed with me? What a fatuous reply, but what I've come to expect from you. Of course the opinion pollsters will believe that polls are significant at any time and on any subject. It is their business. No polls = no income. Surely you realise that, don't you? 🙄

[Wes Tender]

Anybody who naively believes that polling methods and results are an accurate gauge of national opinion, should watch this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0ZZJXw4MTA

I've posted it several times before, but Tamesaint might benefit from watching it again.

[Baird of the land]

I see Starmer is bright enough to criticise as nonsense extreme BLM stuff about getting rid of police.

[hypochondriac]

  On 29/06/2020 at 20:55, Baird of the land said:

I see Starmer is bright enough to criticise as nonsense extreme BLM stuff about getting rid of police.

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And has been absolutely slaughtered by the usi hard left factions within labour for his troubles. 

[Hockey_saint]

  On 29/06/2020 at 21:28, hypochondriac said:

And has been absolutely slaughtered by the usi hard left factions within labour for his troubles. 

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They do seem to be reading intp the "defunding the police is nonsense" anything they like to fit their agenda.

[Hockey_saint]

Just gonna leave this here....never thought I'd see this!

[whelk]

  On 29/06/2020 at 21:28, hypochondriac said:

And has been absolutely slaughtered by the usi hard left factions within labour for his troubles. 

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Which he probably welcomes

[CB Fry]

Bravo Kier and the leadership.

Time to draw a line under the cesspit the party became under that cretin and his acolytes.

 

 

Labour pays out six-figure sum and apologises in antisemitism row

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jul/22/labour-pays-out-six-figure-sum-and-apologises-in-antisemitism-row?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Email

 

 

[Hockey_saint]

  On 22/07/2020 at 10:21, CB Fry said:

Bravo Kier and the leadership.

Time to draw a line under the cesspit the party became under that cretin and his acolytes.

 

 

Labour pays out six-figure sum and apologises in antisemitism row

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jul/22/labour-pays-out-six-figure-sum-and-apologises-in-antisemitism-row?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Email

 

 

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It's about time his followers realised the enemy isn't the Labour party too.

[The Cat]

Just watched PMQs. Starmer again made Johnson look a bit silly, this time on the Russian intelligence report. He ended up resorting to his stock waffle about flip flopping because he didn't have any actual answers. 

[Batman]

  On 22/07/2020 at 17:05, The Cat said:

Just watched PMQs. Starmer again made Johnson look a bit silly, this time on the Russian intelligence report. He ended up resorting to his stock waffle about flip flopping because he didn't have any actual answers. 

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yet the ratings have the Tory's pulling away again.....

[trousers]

  On 22/07/2020 at 17:05, The Cat said:

Just watched PMQs. Starmer again made Johnson look a bit silly, this time on the Russian intelligence report. He ended up resorting to his stock waffle about flip flopping because he didn't have any actual answers. 

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How long before Starmer works out that it's Boris acting silly that makes him popular...?

[Jonnyboy]

  On 22/07/2020 at 10:21, CB Fry said:

Bravo Kier and the leadership.

Time to draw a line under the cesspit the party became under that cretin and his acolytes.

 

 

Labour pays out six-figure sum and apologises in antisemitism row

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jul/22/labour-pays-out-six-figure-sum-and-apologises-in-antisemitism-row?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Email

 

 

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Any examples of Labour antisemitism come to light yet or is it still just a fabrication to undermine socialism and justice for Palestinians? 

[CB Fry]

  On 22/07/2020 at 19:29, Jonnyboy said:

Any examples of Labour antisemitism come to light yet or is it still just a fabrication to undermine socialism and justice for Palestinians? 

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I think it's wonderful that you keep posting this. 

[Jonnyboy]

  On 22/07/2020 at 19:49, CB Fry said:

I think it's wonderful that you keep posting this. 

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Odd way to get sexual thrills but I guess your brand of Remain/War Crimes is capable of anything. 

[badgerx16]

  On 22/07/2020 at 17:35, Batman said:

yet the ratings have the Tory's pulling away again.....

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Perhaps competence and clarity of thought are quite low on the list of qualities the UK electorate desire in their politicians ? BoJo's bufoonery must appeal to a proportion of our population.

Edited 22 July, 2020 by badgerx16

[Weston Super Saint]

  On 22/07/2020 at 21:47, badgerx16 said:

Perhaps competence and clarity of thought are quite low on the list of qualities the UK electorate desire in their politicians ? BoJo's bufoonery must appeal to a proportion of our population.

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Maybe it's his furlough money?

[CB Fry]

Nice long read from the victorious John Ware on the sorry parade of denialists, truth-twisters and, let's call it right, liars forever in the orbit of that Cretin.

So heartbreaking to see the precious words of alf-left wank-sheet The Canary being dismantled like this. Why, its almost like they are utterly full of shit.

https://www.thejc.com/comment/opinion/the-corbynites-have-lied-with-impunity-now-they-face-the-legal-consequences-1.501782

 

 

[saint1977]

  On 22/07/2020 at 17:35, Batman said:

yet the ratings have the Tory's pulling away again.....

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Let’s see what they look like when manufacturers in the old Red Wall actually experience what it’s like to ‘go WTO’ in the middle of pandemic. Xenophobia doesn’t put food on the table.

[Weston Super Saint]

  On 23/07/2020 at 08:10, saint1977 said:

Let’s see what they look like when manufacturers in the old Red Wall actually experience what it’s like to ‘go WTO’ in the middle of pandemic. Xenophobia doesn’t put food on the table.

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So you think that 'going WTO' will be so catastrophic that people who work in manufacturing in the 'old Red Wall' will not have enough money to feed themselves?