All things Labour Party

[Nolan]

The terms were clearly set out. Losing membership of the single market and the customs union doesn't have a prayer of getting through this parliament.

 

And it's not simply because the leading Brexiteers are as thick as mince. Although they are. Here's Andrea Leadsom celebrating Jane Austin as 'one of our greatest living authors.'

 

https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/887996769371652097/video/1

Corbyns had always wanted us out of the ludicrous customs union.

 

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[buctootim]

Student loans go to those who choose to go into further education at age 18, I think. That's up to them, they aren't under any obligation to do so. I bet Whiteys education stopped at 16, I'm younger but mine stopped at that age apart from a grant that paid part of my rent in the Midlands. My parents had to pay a percentage of that.

 

 

The point is that in the past governments invested in the young as the future of the country rather than treating them as pack horses to service the 'haves'. Subsidised higher education and affordable housing have all but disappeared. In 1935 85% of houses sold in London cost £750 or less. How much is that in today's money? £500,000?, £300,000? - nope just £45,000.

 

Edited 20 July, 2017 by buctootim

[buctootim]

Corbyns had always wanted us out of the ludicrous customs union.

 

What is ludicrous about a customs union? do explain.

[Nolan]

What is ludicrous about a customs union? do explain.

The point of the customs union is to add costs on things... For example. Oranges from South Africa or Melons from Brazil. Added costs mean they are the same cost as Orange or Melons from Spain

 

Generally known as protectionism.

 

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[shurlock]

Corbyns had always wanted us out of the ludicrous customs union.

 

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Yet it's not stated in the manifesto.

[buctootim]

The point of the customs union is to add costs on things... For example. Oranges from South Africa or Melons from Brazil. Added costs mean they are the same cost as Orange or Melons from Spain

 

Generally known as protectionism.

 

Also known as food security. As big a part of national defence as the military. I don't think you or most Brexiteers have the slightest clue what free trade with China or India would actually mean. You could kiss goodbye to the car, steel and electronics industries for a start.

[shurlock]

Also known as food security. As big a part of national defence as the military. I don't think you or most Brexiteers have the slightest clue what free trade with China or India would actually mean. You could kiss goodbye to the car, steel and electronics industries for a start.

 

Some kippers positively welcome it - little known fact is that areas that most heavily supported Brexit were not ones with high levels of immigration but ones that were most exposed to Chinese import competition.

 

The basic absurdity is that Global Britain promises more, not less pain for these constituencies.

[badgerx16]

How old will your kids be then? 60? What will they use the money for? a buy to let to increase their retirement fund?

They would still be 'young' from my perspective. I could always skip a generation and leave it all to my grand children, or alternatively blow it all on wild living by way of equity release.

[scotty]

How old will your kids be then? 60? What will they use the money for? a buy to let to increase their retirement fund?

 

According to unverified reports they'll be forced to use it to repay their student loans.

[Nolan]

Also known as food security. As big a part of national defence as the military. I don't think you or most Brexiteers have the slightest clue what free trade with China or India would actually mean. You could kiss goodbye to the car, steel and electronics industries for a start.

I have a good idea as I import fruit from lots of places inside and outside the EU, thanks.

 

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[buctootim]

I have a good idea as I import fruit from lots of places inside and outside the EU, thanks.

 

You have an idea about how to wax a lemon. About stuff more complex than that, not so much

[Nolan]

You have an idea about how to wax a lemon. About stuff more complex than that, not so much

My bosses don't agree...

 

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[aintforever]

Does anyone still believe that hard Brexit - renouncing membership of the single market and the customs union - has any hope of getting through this parliament?

 

It doesn't have a prayer.

 

Surely it doesn't matter, we've triggered article 50 so we're going to leave regardless of what deal our parliament agrees. They can't agree a deal then it's WTO rules.

[Winnersaint]

Surely it doesn't matter, we've triggered article 50 so we're going to leave regardless of what deal our parliament agrees. They can't agree a deal then it's WTO rules.

 

And if it f*cks the economy for the next twenty years (I stress if!) that's Ok is it? Remoaner, snowflake and proud of it!

[Nolan]

And if it f*cks the economy for the next twenty years (I stress if!) that's Ok is it? Remoaner, snowflake and proud of it!

Yes, because we were given worst possible case scenarios by the treasury and we still decided to vote for a Brexit.

 

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[aintforever]

And if it f*cks the economy for the next twenty years (I stress if!) that's Ok is it? Remoaner, snowflake and proud of it!

 

I don't think it's OK that's why I think it is common sense to have another refurendum once the details of the deal are known.

[LGTL]

Yes, because we were given worst possible case scenarios by the treasury and we still decided to vote for a Brexit.

 

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I'm not sure that's anything to be proud of.

[Nolan]

I'm not sure that's anything to be proud of.

Judging how wrong the predictions have been so far... Looks like the right decision was made.

 

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[Winnersaint]

Yes, because we were given worst possible case scenarios by the treasury and we still decided to vote for a Brexit.

 

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I think the problem with the referendum result is that it was as much a protest against the establishment by people who felt disenfranchised as much anything else. Arguments can be made both ways about the economy plusses and minuses but this wasn't about Britain and its economic relationship with the EU which should have been the core argument. For an awful lot of people, it was about immigration plain and simple. I think the rise in, and fear of Islamic fundamentalism didn't help especially with large numbers of migrants camped at 'The Jungle' in Calais. In the end I don't think the opportunist econo/political migrant from 'The Jungle' could be distinguished by many from the eastern European migrants from the EU. Remain didn't do enough to promote the merits of EU membership and Leave tapped into the nasty racist undercurrent that exists in our country.

[buctootim]

[Nolan]

You have successfully found a graph that shows our growth rate was better in the Q4/2016 than everyone else. Glad they're playing catch up.

 

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[Jonnyboy]

My bosses don't agree...

 

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Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson?

[Lord Duckhunter]

Disappointing crime figures released today. Don't worry, we have an alternative Government in waiting & a Shadow home Sec back on top of her game. 10,000 more police "people", what's not to like? Especially as the money can be found by "cutting, err err, no, by restoring capital gains tax" . It'll raise "170, err err, 200 million". Gets my vote.

 

http://www.itv.com/news/update/2017-07-20/diane-abbott-struggles-again-on-police-funding/

 

 

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Edited 20 July, 2017 by Lord Duckhunter

[Sour Mash]

I'm not sure that's anything to be proud of.

So you pick and choose which bits of information from the Tory government you like, same as every one else.

[buctootim]

Disappointing crime figures released today. Don't worry, we have an alternative Government in waiting & a Shadow home Sec back on top of her game. 10,000 more police "people", what's not to like? Especially as the money can be found by "cutting, err err, no, by restoring capital gains tax" . It'll raise "170, err err, 200 million". Gets my vote.

Dianne Abbot is a bit of a shambles - and yet May is making it look like we should give her a go as she couldn't do any worse. May was absolutely hopeless as Home Secretary and is worse as PM. Thats the Tory party today.

[Johnny Bognor]

Disappointing crime figures released today. Don't worry, we have an alternative Government in waiting & a Shadow home Sec back on top of her game. 10,000 more police "people", what's not to like? Especially as the money can be found by "cutting, err err, no, by restoring capital gains tax" . It'll raise "170, err err, 200 million". Gets my vote.

 

http://www.itv.com/news/update/2017-07-20/diane-abbott-struggles-again-on-police-funding/

 

 

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Go easy on her mate. She clearly hasn't fully recovered from her *cough* *cough*, illness.

[Verbal]

Trailer for unmissable, but often unwatchable documentary about a group of extraordinarily courageous young journalists in Syria, whose heroism and truth is denied by Assadists among the Corbyn cult, because they fight ISIS while accusing Assad of being the bigger threat.

 

[Coxford_lou]

Thanks for the link. Levels of individual heroism in Syria are just off the scale.

[Jonnyboy]

Corbyns had always wanted us out of the ludicrous customs union.

 

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So you do agree with some of his views?

[Nolan]

So you do agree with some of his views?

No one 100% disagrees with anyone. I vehemently disagree with his means and his associates.

 

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[Jonnyboy]

No one 100% disagrees with anyone. I vehemently disagree with his means and his associates.

 

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His means?

[whelk]

Thanks for the link. Levels of individual heroism in Syria are just off the scale.

 

Where have you been Lou?

[Lord Duckhunter]

Dianne Abbot is a bit of a shambles - and yet May is making it look like we should give her a go as she couldn't do any worse. May was absolutely hopeless as Home Secretary and is worse as PM. Thats the Tory party today.

 

But what are police "people"?

 

 

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[badgerx16]

But what are police "people"?

 

They are the ones with 2 legs, the ones with 4 are Police dogs.

[Lord Duckhunter]

They are the ones with 2 legs, the ones with 4 are Police dogs.

 

Officers, administrators, secretaries, cleaners?

 

 

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[buctootim]

Officers, administrators, secretaries, cleaners?

 

Thats probably what was tbf. Its a myth though to think you can just employ more police and not any of the support services necessary. Too many people misunderstand that as waste, in fact its efficiency. If you want more police doing front line work the most cost effective way to do that is more back office staff who are cheaper and take much of the paperwork away from trained police .

[badgerx16]

Officers, administrators, secretaries, cleaners?

All of whom presumably have 2 legs; -)

[Coxford_lou]

Where have you been Lou?

 

I've been around, thanks for asking, Whelk. But between this and the other place, there's only so much male posturing a gal can take

[Jonnyboy]

I've been around, thanks for asking, Whelk. But between this and the other place, there's only so much male posturing a gal can take

 

It's nice to have a real lady on here if I do say so myself.

[Jonnyboy]

That makes no odds.

 

'Corbyn is the trustworthy one' people say. So surely the words he speaks must be believed

 

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What part of what he actually said did you struggle to understand, or was it the way it was reported that caused your failed comprehension?

 

 

"Yes, there is a block of those that currently have a massive debt, and I’m looking at ways that we could reduce that, ameliorate that, lengthen the period of paying it off, or some other means of reducing that debt burden. I don’t have the simple answer for it at this stage – I don’t think anybody would expect me to, because this election was called unexpectedly; we had two weeks to prepare all of this – but I’m very well aware of that problem. And I don’t see why those that had the historical misfortune to be at university during the £9,000 period should be burdened excessively compared to those that went before or those that come after. I will deal with it.”

 

 

Seems pretty clear to me and no strong hints at all unless you're thick as pig**** or willfully only read the last five words of what he said.

[Nolan]

Well if even shadow cabinet members thought they were going to wipe it out maybe Jeremy should have explained himself better?

 

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/key-ally-of-jeremy-corbyn-caught-on-video-making-pledge-to-wipe-off-student-debts-a3595646.html

 

 

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[trousers]

What part of what he actually said did you struggle to understand, or was it the way it was reported that caused your failed comprehension?

 

 

"Yes, there is a block of those that currently have a massive debt, and I’m looking at ways that we could reduce that, ameliorate that, lengthen the period of paying it off, or some other means of reducing that debt burden. I don’t have the simple answer for it at this stage – I don’t think anybody would expect me to, because this election was called unexpectedly; we had two weeks to prepare all of this – but I’m very well aware of that problem. And I don’t see why those that had the historical misfortune to be at university during the £9,000 period should be burdened excessively compared to those that went before or those that come after. I will deal with it.”

 

 

Seems pretty clear to me and no strong hints at all unless you're thick as pig**** or willfully only read the last five words of what he said.

 

Indeed. It's almost as dim as those who interpreted the 'How about we give this £350m to the NHS?', written on the side of a bus by a group of people who had no power or authority to turn such a suggestion into a policy, as a cast iron guarantee that it would happen.

 

Unless, of course, it's ok for certain politicians to speak in a suggestive non-committal manner but not others....

Edited 26 July, 2017 by trousers

[shurlock]

Indeed. It's almost as dim as those who interpreted the 'How about we give this £350m to the NHS?', written on the side of a bus by a group of people who had no power or authority to turn such a suggestion into a policy, as a cast iron guarantee that it would happen.

 

Unless, of course, it's ok for certain politicians to speak in a suggestive non-committal manner but not others....

 

Nah nothing like the same level of cynicism, shtick-meister

 

[trousers]

Nah nothing like the same level of cynicism, shtick-meister

 

Bugger. Thought I might have been able to sneak that one under the schtick police radar. Foiled again

[shurlock]

Bugger. Thought I might have been able to sneak that one under the schtick police radar. Foiled again

 

[trousers]

I would

[buctootim]

I would.....

 

....push off a cliff edge as a batch?

[trousers]

....push off a cliff edge as a batch?

 

No, I would have been game for a romantic liaison with Jeremy Beadle (before his sad demise, obviously)

[buctootim]

No, I would have been game for a romantic liaison with Jeremy Beadle (before his sad demise, obviously)

 

Small left hand or bigger right hand?

[Verbal]

I notice that YouGov has Corbyn's polling lead falling around his anti-single market comments.

 

As he continues to squander the momentum he gained from the election, the weird thing about him is that he seems intent on squandering it the most on Europe. While other senior Labour figures continue an unsustainable fudge, he's come out strongly against membership of either the single market or the customs union.

 

The reason it's weird is that, on this issue, Corbyn is no Corbynista. He's a Chavismo. The vast majority of his acolytes are committed to retaining membership, largely, I suspect, because the economic damage of hard Brexit is recognised even by them as far too great. As a Chavismo, however, Corbyn buys into the core Hugo Chavez belief that the EU is a neo-liberal conspiracy against the poor. He votes against joining the EEC, against joining the single market, against Maastricht, and against Lisbon - against anything to with the EU.

 

Not surprisingly, Corbyn is wrong, of course. Dangerously so. The EU is the diametric opposite of 'neo-liberal' - ordoliberal. The central tenet of neo-liberalism is the minimal state. Ordoliberalism is the management of the market for the best outcome for the majority - a kind of state-regulated utilitarianism. This is why, for example, in Germany and France, wages for working class citizens are higher, working and living conditions are better, and health is better.

 

Corbyn doesn't see any of this, evidently. All he sees, Chavez style, is the conspiracy. So he won't be changing tack on membership any time soon. Watch his numbers continue to drop as his own members and Labour voters despair, even while the Tories continue, on Brexit and everything else, to offer the worst example of governance since Chamberlain.