bender Posted 16 July, 2015 Share Posted 16 July, 2015 We'll have a hell of a lot of players not getting games. Discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintZamboni Posted 16 July, 2015 Share Posted 16 July, 2015 Capital one cup, FA cup, league + injuries. I think they know what they're doing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Saint Posted 16 July, 2015 Share Posted 16 July, 2015 Didn't Les cover this in his interview - apparently we are not lobbing in bodies to prevent just this. Trying to find the right balance between squad depth and a lot of unhappy campers not getting a game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trout-Tickler Posted 16 July, 2015 Share Posted 16 July, 2015 We'll have a hell of a lot of players not getting games. Discuss. Through injuries and suspensions everyone will get the chance to play during the season. Up to the players to convince RK that they should be in/stay in the team! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 16 July, 2015 Share Posted 16 July, 2015 As we know the season is a marathon, not a sprint. The more quality in depth we have the better chance of competing consistently through the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint si Posted 16 July, 2015 Share Posted 16 July, 2015 Remember how we have suffered in the last 2 seasons due to lack of squad depth? We've been managing with 14-16 "proper" first team players and our form has dropped off a cliff whenever we've had a few injuries and suspensions. That was purely on the back of domestic campaign with barely a sniff of a cup run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted 16 July, 2015 Share Posted 16 July, 2015 not really at all. http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/13421343.Southampton_will_add_numbers_sensibly___Les_Reed/?ref=rss Echo just had this article about how they've intentionally not just bought random squad fillers, for exactly that reason. They want to be wise in the way the club is handling transfers so we aren't hanging the season and the happiness of the squad on whether or not we've got into europe and are playing regularly. At the same time, we're obviously building the squad up to the challenge of a packed season. I actually think the transfers have been pretty shrewd so far. To have steklenburg, soares and juanmi for 10 m is just absurd (I realise stekkers was loan). All this business about transfer 'vision' and club strategy is far easier said than done, and maybe Les reed is just talking hot air. But the club is at the very least talking and thinking strategically about these things. Gives me confidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 16 July, 2015 Share Posted 16 July, 2015 We'll have a hell of a lot of players not getting games. Discuss. We'll have about the same number as we had last season, and assuming we sign another CB, we'll have maybe one more, easily covered by just not having an U21 sitting on the bench never getting used. I expect that if we get through the EL Qualifiers into the Group Stages we'll have a couple of loans lined up, and if we don't, we won't bother. We have a couple of days after the PlayOff Round to sort that before the transfer window closes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 16 July, 2015 Share Posted 16 July, 2015 Only the same as last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 16 July, 2015 Share Posted 16 July, 2015 (edited) we did have depth and it helped us. massive bloated squads do not help, especially for a club our size. christ even liverpool were half the team when they signed a much larger squad last season. season before they actually knew their team and kept playing it. saints have plenty of options, just need a couple more first team signings and that'll be enough. it does nothing for team spirit having unhappy players getting no games, and nothing for team cohesion changing everything round every single game. just wait for liverpool to be a mess again this season. they'll keep signing players, will change it every time they lose, not enough will settle, they'll have a massive talented squad but little sense of team, and rodgers won't last the season. guarantee they won't get top 4, think they'll be behind spurs again too. We didn't have enough depth to cope with the loss of any three of Schneiderlin/Wanyama/Alderweireld/Forster/Pelle at any point without a significant drop in results. That says to me we didn't have enough depth - though I readily accept that there's a trade off between regular starters' wages and squad depth in a sustainable model like Saints'. Just because other teams are not good at managing their players doesn't mean that we wouldn't be able to. Liverpool's failure was down to four things - Suarez leaving, Sturridge being injured most of the time, Gerrard getting picked for reasons other than ability and dragging their performances down, and Lovren not being able to play alongside Skrtel. The only element of that which is squad management related is Sturridge getting injured, and that is solved by not letting Suarez go without a replacement - so one player. Edited 16 July, 2015 by The9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 16 July, 2015 Share Posted 16 July, 2015 We'll have a hell of a lot of players not getting games. Discuss. No we won't. Roughly same size squad as last season and season before, both years proved that the size of the squad was on the small side, and we struggled to cope when we had injury and suspension crises in mid-season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 16 July, 2015 Share Posted 16 July, 2015 From last season we've lost Clyne, Morgan, Toby, Elia, Djuricic and effectively Forster. Six. This season we've added Soares, Clasie, Martina, Juanmi, Stekelenberg and Rodriguez has come back from injury. Six. Stop talking rubbish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 16 July, 2015 Share Posted 16 July, 2015 You're talking about the sort of mythical depth only fans can. In reality, any team will be worse without its best players. That's why they're the best players. We lost midfielders and had others come in and do fine. We lost form collectively as a team, even before injuries started to add up. Pressure, expectation and not having enough goals in the team from day 1 was a far bigger problem. You will never have these amazing reserves happily waiting to replace all the top players. Having loads of back up would only leave us in a mess in terms of finance and the team. We had Elia, Long and Djuricic as attacking back up last season. This year two of them have gone and we've added Rodriguez, Juanmi and Ramirez. I'd say that's a hell of an improvement. I'd like a brilliant keeper sat on the bench every week too but I'm amazed even Chelsea can pull that one off. Completely disagree about the bit in bold, the "loss of form" was completely aligned with the opposition's final league position for the teams we lost to in Nov/Dec (with Sheff U and Burnley as collateral damage) and with injuries to key players in March/April. If you'd actually read my point, I was saying that we won't have that kind of depth as well. Though your "2 out 3 in" theory kind of ignores the whole massive gap at CB which will be far more costly to us anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 16 July, 2015 Share Posted 16 July, 2015 From last season we've lost Clyne, Morgan, Toby, Elia, Djuricic and effectively Forster. Six. This season we've added Soares, Clasie, Martina, Juanmi, Stekelenberg and Rodriguez has come back from injury. Six. Stop talking rubbish. Quite. As I mentioned, assuming we add a CB we'll be one player up, and I expect the club will take a view re: loan players dependent on Group Stage qualification - or possibly we might just give the kids a run in the matches where we think we can get away with it. It'll be interesting to see where our priorities lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nta786 Posted 16 July, 2015 Share Posted 16 July, 2015 From last season we've lost Clyne, Morgan, Toby, Elia, Djuricic and effectively Forster. Six. This season we've added Soares, Clasie, Martina, Juanmi, Stekelenberg and Rodriguez has come back from injury. Six. Stop talking rubbish. We've got Gaston back as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 16 July, 2015 Share Posted 16 July, 2015 Soares replaces Clyne JRod replaces Elia Gaston replaces Djuricic Steklenberg replaces Forster Clasie replaces Morgan Martina additional Juanmi additional Toby not yet replaced (Van Dijk) If rumours are to believed, we're still after another CM For the front 6 positions, we'll have.... Wanyama, Reed, JWP, Davis, Clasie, Tadic, Mane, Gaston, Long, JRod, Juanmi, Pelle, Gallagher. A lot of players to keep happy if we do not get in the group stages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNSUN Posted 16 July, 2015 Share Posted 16 July, 2015 I've seen Ramirez mentioned on here a lot recently in relation to him being a back up player. Has Koeman said anything along these lines? I'd assumed he will be sent back out on loan/sold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintBobby Posted 20 July, 2015 Share Posted 20 July, 2015 It is true that we could play anything from just two games to about a dozen or so matches in the Europa League. But, we could also play anywhere from 2 to about a dozen games in the domestic cups, so I don't think the level of uncertainty is enormously greater this season. We're likely to play 6 or 7 additional games this season. It could be a bit more than this, or a bit less. Obviously, as the season unfolds, we will prioritise or deprioritise different competitions. If we're are knocked out of the Europa League at the group stage with two games to go, we aren't likely to field strong teams in those last two games. In contrast, if we have made it to the Europa League quarter finals and are clearly going to finish between 9th and 12th in the premier league, we may rest key players rather than field them in increasingly less important league matches. Overall, I think we have greater opportunities to bleed through some youth players as a result as qualifying for Europe. Not necessarily in European matches themselves, but in other matches (3rd or 4th round of the Capital One Cup) as part of a squad rotation strategy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 20 July, 2015 Share Posted 20 July, 2015 (edited) It is true that we could play anything from just two games to about a dozen or so matches in the Europa League. But, we could also play anywhere from 2 to about a dozen games in the domestic cups, so I don't think the level of uncertainty is enormously greater this season. We're likely to play 6 or 7 additional games this season. It could be a bit more than this, or a bit less. Obviously, as the season unfolds, we will prioritise or deprioritise different competitions. If we're are knocked out of the Europa League at the group stage with two games to go, we aren't likely to field strong teams in those last two games. In contrast, if we have made it to the Europa League quarter finals and are clearly going to finish between 9th and 12th in the premier league, we may rest key players rather than field them in increasingly less important league matches. Overall, I think we have greater opportunities to bleed through some youth players as a result as qualifying for Europe. Not necessarily in European matches themselves, but in other matches (3rd or 4th round of the Capital One Cup) as part of a squad rotation strategy. Nineteen matches to win it (or lose in the Final). Minimum of 10 before Xmas if we make the group stages. Two if we lose to Vitesse, four if we lose in the Playoff round. I think the problem with using the League Cup for example, is that by the time we even enter, we're likely to be playing Prem sides. It also seems to be a bit of a waste of an opportunity when we're already in the last 32 due to the byes from being in Europe. 6 League Cup matches and 6 FA Cup matches, max. to get to the Finals. 19 max in EL. It's not really the same. Even getting to both the League Cup and FA Cup Final would only equate to losing in the last 32 of the Europa League in terms of numbers of matches. Edited 20 July, 2015 by The9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 20 July, 2015 Share Posted 20 July, 2015 I've seen Ramirez mentioned on here a lot recently in relation to him being a back up player. Has Koeman said anything along these lines? I'd assumed he will be sent back out on loan/sold. Conflicting signs - played in Salzburg, but didn't travel to Groningen and was seen in Gunwharf on the weekend. I'd say he was comfortably in the category of "could be useful" but I thought that last season. This season however we have the possibility of matches which may be more suited to his type of play. I do vaguely recall comments saying he'll get a chance from either Koeman or Reed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redslo Posted 20 July, 2015 Share Posted 20 July, 2015 Nineteen matches to win it (or lose in the Final). Minimum of 10 before Xmas if we make the group stages. Two if we lose to Vitesse, four if we lose in the Playoff round. I think the problem with using the League Cup for example, is that by the time we even enter, we're likely to be playing Prem sides. It also seems to be a bit of a waste of an opportunity when we're already in the last 32 due to the byes from being in Europe. 6 League Cup matches and 6 FA Cup matches, max. to get to the Finals. 19 max in EL. It's not really the same. Even getting to both the League Cup and FA Cup Final would only equate to losing in the last 32 of the Europa League in terms of numbers of matches. Premier League 38 games (excluding theoretical possibility of playoff if we have a tied that matters that cannot be broken by goal dif or goals) Europa League 2 to 19 games League Cup 1 to 6 games (instead of 1 to 7 in a normal season) FA Cup 1 to 10 games (including possible replays) Normal Season: 40 to 55 games This season (hopefully the new normal) 42 to 73 games Thus the potential variability is indeed much higher this year. I doubt the club is expecting to play 73 games but they are undoubtedly planning as if we will have to play 12 extra games before January. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 20 July, 2015 Share Posted 20 July, 2015 Premier League 38 games (excluding theoretical possibility of playoff if we have a tied that matters that cannot be broken by goal dif or goals) Europa League 2 to 19 games League Cup 1 to 6 games (instead of 1 to 7 in a normal season) FA Cup 1 to 10 games (including possible replays) Normal Season: 40 to 55 games This season (hopefully the new normal) 42 to 73 games Thus the potential variability is indeed much higher this year. I doubt the club is expecting to play 73 games but they are undoubtedly planning as if we will have to play 12 extra games before January. The Premier League, Lge Cup matches and FA Cup matches are basically a constant, they have the same variety as any other season (in fact we have the possibility of one fewer League Cup match than usual as we start a round later). Within the parameters of knowing that success means we might do slightly better than before, and with that basically offset by the likelihood of fielding a weaker team, that means they can be ignored, only the EL fixtures could be considered as "additional". So I'm fairly sure they will be planning for playing some EL matches before the season even starts instead of some friendlies. The 3rd Qualifying Round 1st Leg coming before the start of the season, the second leg being offset by not having to play a 2nd Round League Cup fixture, and the Play-off Round coming whilst the transfer window is still open all means that there is basically only 2 additional games to think about before September, and with the PO Round concluding on August 27th they will know whether they have 6 additional EL matches BEFORE the end of the transfer window, which will allow them to complete or walk away from deals based on qualification or not. If we get to the knockout stages, I'd have no problem at all with the club doing some short term loan business in January which could cover off additional areas (and also potentially attract targets for the following season). In short, I bet they have it completely in hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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