Squad Size

[Batman]

How much do we need to increase the size of the squad (with adequate quality) to cope with (if we get there) group stages of the EL, do well in the prem and have a decent go at the cups?

 

Ins

Stekelenberg

Martina

Soares

Juanmi

Clasie (all but)

 

Out

Clyne

Morgan

Toby - unable to retain

Elia - not wanted

Djricic - not wanted

 

Hopefully, forster will be back by the end of 2015. Making the GK department very strong.

Lets assume we will bring in a good CB....

 

how does that make our squad look.....do any of the fringe players (isgrove, hesketh, gallagher etc) fill you with confidence that they could come in a do a good job for a run of games?

obviously, rodriguez is back!!!

 

 

IMO, I think we are light in midfield in term of a big unit. We miss Vic quite a bit when he is out (and he will be)....we have a fair few smaller players who would come in

 

 

edit - added Elia and Djuricic

Edited 14 July, 2015 by Batman

[Bartosz Bialkowski]

Out

Djuricic

Elia

[beavis17]

I'd count Rodriguez as an 'In'.

[Saint Rees]

I'd count Rodriguez as an 'In'.

 

And Gaston in a way..

 

Think with Clasie, a CB and another physical CM similar to Gueye or Imbula will be us done

[Saint Charlie]

Think we need an additional CM then I would be happy with it. Have good cover everywhere apart from GK but the club don't seem fussed by that.

 

Of the U21s (who havent yet broken into the first team permanently) I think Hesketh has the quality to maybe make an impact, and Isgrove as a sub.

 

Stephens a good 5th/6th CB, but otherwise I can't seem the likes of Gallagher, Gape etc getting games unless we have a horrendous injury crisis.

[Lallana's Left Peg]

We need a central midfielder (defensive, rotation) and a centre-back (starter) and we're good to go.

[Matthew Le God]

Ins

Stekelenberg

Martina

Soares

Juanmi

Clasie (all but)

 

- Isgrove is now old enough add to our 25 man list.

- Rodriguez after missing a season is effectively a new player for Koeman

- Ramirez after a season long loan is effectively a new player for Koeman

[Dan Johnson]

Outs & replacements

Clyne - Soares is his replacement

Morgan – To replace

Toby – To replace

Elia – Jrod back in his place

Djricic – Gaston back in his place

Foster long term Injury – Steklenberg cover

 

Additions remaining from last years squad depth

Midfielder to replace corks absence & additional fixtures

Midfielder to replace Morgan (Claise likely)

Center back to replace Toby

Striker – Juanmi acquired.

Full back cover – Martina acquired.

 

After we get replace Morgan and Toby, I’d say we will probably be up an additional 3 on head count, 4 when fraser returns from injury.

 

Juanmi (additional Striker)

Martina (full back cover)

Additional Midfielder (additional Midfielder)

Steklenberg (goal Keeper cover)

 

In summary, I think we will see 3 more transfers. 2 x midfielders 1 x center back.

[eddie]

I would really really really like to see Van Dijk, the celtic CB. I know there's been lots of rumours on here and a few elsewhere about him coming, and about celtic actually lining up a replacement, and it could easily just be hot air.....but the more I see of him, I really think he is top notch. Solid, ball playing cb with a good stride and can read the game well. Doesn't always pass back to gk as I noticed gardos and yoshida do far too often. I know that we've all been posting our dream transfers but I'm definitely hoping for the smallest grain of truth about this one!

[Ulrich van Gobbel]

I totally agree with the above.. I'll be happy when we sign a CB (Van Dijk) and a physical DM.

[Window Cleaner]

I totally agree with the above.. I'll be happy when we sign a CB (Van Dijk) and a physical DM.

 

We don't need just a physical DM...we need one with enormous talent and good physique. We could simply get another Victor but it wouldn't hep us overmuch.

[Ulrich van Gobbel]

We don't need just a physical DM...we need one with enormous talent and good physique. We could simply get another Victor but it wouldn't hep us overmuch.

 

I didn't suggest we sign a VW Mk II. Schneiderlin could be described as physical - he is also extremely dynamic and possesses great athleticism. I would hope that enormous talent is a prerequisite for any signing that we make.

[Brave Sir Robin]

Strength in depth is my main concern for this season. Personally I think we need to add 4 or 5 players who are as good or better than our first choices in order to have a good go at all 3 cups and finish in the top 10. As it stands, I think we'll have enough to stay up. The reality is that we'll probably add 2 or 3, go out of all the cups by March and finish around 12th.

[Pancake]

What's Big Vic's bro up to? Last I saw he was at Parma before they imploded and dropped down to the semi-pro leagues.

[SuperSAINT]

The obvious are DC & DMC (as replacements for Morgan & Toby)

 

I'd still sign a physical DMC as well.

 

The question marks are:

Whether Gaston can show RK he's worthy of a place & whether Isgrove is good enough - So that's where you could possibly see another Attacker coming in.

 

How are we doing for "home grown" players now?

[Matthew Le God]

Squad size 2014/15 - Feb to May

 

1st Chelsea - 18

2nd Man City - 23

3rd Arsenal - 22

4th Man Utd - 21

5th Tottenham - 21

6th Liverpool - 19

7th Southampton - 20

8th Swansea - 25

9th Stoke - 23

10th Crystal Palace - 25

11th Everton - 23

12th West Ham - 22

13th West Brom - 21

14th Leicester City - 25

15th Newcastle - 23

16th Sunderland - 21

17th Aston Villa - 25

18th Hull City - 25

19th Burnley -23

20th QPR - 25

 

That 20 for Saints doesn't include the likes of Gallagher, Gape, Hesketh, Isgrove, McCarthy, McQueen, Reed, Seager, Stephens, Targett, Turnbull & Ward-Prowse.

 

............

 

For 2015/16 Saints currently have 21 players for the squad list. 22 if/when Clasie joins, 23 when we sign another centre back. Back to 22 if Mayuka leaves. Plus all the under 21 players, like Targett, Reed, Ward-Prowse etc.

[Batman]

Squad size 2014/15 - Feb to May

 

1st Chelsea - 18

2nd Man City - 23

3rd Arsenal - 22

4th Man Utd - 21

5th Tottenham - 21

6th Liverpool - 19

7th Southampton - 20

8th Swansea - 25

9th Stoke - 23

10th Crystal Palace - 25

11th Everton - 23

12th West Ham - 22

13th West Brom - 21

14th Leicester City - 25

15th Newcastle - 23

16th Sunderland - 21

17th Aston Villa - 25

18th Hull City - 25

19th Burnley -23

20th QPR - 25

 

That 20 for Saints doesn't include the likes of Gallagher, Gape, Hesketh, Isgrove, McCarthy, McQueen, Reed, Seager, Stephens, Targett, Turnbull & Ward-Prowse.

 

............

 

For 2015/16 Saints currently have 21 players for the squad list. 22 if/when Clasie joins, 23 when we sign another centre back. Back to 22 if Mayuka leaves. Plus all the under 21 players, like Targett, Reed, Ward-Prowse etc.

 

smaller than most then

[Matthew Le God]

smaller than most then

 

Of the 6 teams above us; Liverpool & Chelsea had a smaller number, Spurs & Man Utd 1 more player, Arsenal 2 more players and Man City 3 more players. One of our 20 players was Rodriguez who missed the entire season but is now back.

 

Plus we have more quality under 21 players than most Premier League clubs to use in addition.

Edited 14 July, 2015 by Matthew Le God

[Saint86]

Squad Depth

 

Goalkeepers

Forster (From January) - Good

Stekelenberg -Good

Gazza – Capable/Cover

Kelvin – Capable/Cover

 

Defenders – IMHO - a weak area for me at present.

 

CB's

Yoshi - Capable

Fonte - Key Player

Gardos - Capable

Martina - Assumed Capable

Stephens - Unproven

Turnbull - Unproven

McCartmey - Unproven

 

LB's

Bertrand (injured) - Good Player

Target - Capable

Yoshi - Can cover but not in an attacking sense so changes tactics by playing there

Debayo?

 

RB's

Soares - Good Player

Martina - Assumed Capable

Stephens/McCartney - Unproven in the extreme in this position.

 

DM's

Wanyama - Good Player

Reed – Capable

Gape?

 

CM's

JWP - Capable/Good

Davis - Capable/Good

Tadic - Good

Ramriez - Capable/Good Maybe?!?!?!

Sadly all of these fill basically the same position when they play central midfield.

 

Wingers

Mane - Best player imho

Jayrod - Hopefully comes back firing and therefore good, otherwise capable

Tadic - Good

Ramirez – Capable

Hesketh? Sims? Isgrove?

 

Forwards

Gallagher - Capable

Pelle - Good

Jayrod - As above

Seager?

Depth when looking at solid/good first team players (no cover/capable listed):

GK – MS/FF

RB – Soares

LB – Bertrand (Injured)

CB’s – Fonte

 

CDM - Wanyama

CM’s – JWP/Davis/Tadic

 

RW - Sadio

LW - Jayrod

Striker - Pelle

 

In summary, we currently have no real competition amongst our better players.

If wanyama goes we’re up a creak.

If fonte goes we’re up a creak. Similar if gardos or Yoshi go down with injuries :/

If soares goes we’re up a creak

If pelle goes, jayrod is up front, and we’re back to Sadio and tadic on the wings with no solid cover for either.

If sadio or Tadic goes we have good/proven wingers to step up.

We can realistically survive knocks to the attack, because the kids need their chance. But we have to reliable right back cover at all tbh, we need 1 good CB ASAP, we need a CDM/CB to cover Wanyama and we need JC in the CM role.

 

That is a RB, CB,CDM and CM – 3 new players to tick those boxes is solid improvement. 2 is treading water and will lead to us sliding down the league imho.

[saintoaks]

In my opinion we need competition for Pelle, Long does a good job up top, JRod could do the job as well (but worked better with a Lambert type player), but i just sense Pelle thinks his position is secure when he doesn't do enough for me.

 

On a positive note the you tube vids I've seen of Clasie may just wake him up a bit.

[The9]

My usual argument over the last 5 years is that we need to add 6 players to the squad irrespective of those leaving, but over time, as the squad improves and FFP becomes a consideration along with our ability to attract better players, I have come to accept this also means counting fringe U21s to plug the squad gaps cheaply as "new" and this will allow us to free up wages for the sort of players who generate points (last season that was mostly Alderweireld).

 

So...

 

Worst case scenario (ignoring any further transfers), players who are not available to us who played last season:

[Forster, Bertrand injuries], Clyne, Schneiderlin, Alderweireld, Djuricic, Elia.

 

Players who are available who did not play for Saints last season:

Stekelenburg, Martina, Cedric, (Clasie?), Juanmi, Ramirez, Rodriguez.

 

That's pretty much a 1:1 replacement ratio, assuming Clasie in DM - but with a gaping hole in CB and probably a weakness in DM as Clasie takes time to learn team-mates' ways and the system he's playing. A pile of kids getting opportunities will pick up the slack once the obvious deficiencies are addressed.

 

Having read Anderson/Sally's brilliant statistical analysis of causes and effects of what really happens in football this weekend, it's absolutely bloody obvious that Saints are following the model outlined in the book in strategy and outlook, just as it's obvious we absolutely need a top quality centre back and defensive midfielder.

 

The fan often wants to buy an awesome striker to create loads of chances, but the analytics for beginners nerd knows that if we have the chance to buy a £15m striker or a £15m centre back, chances are the £15m spent on the centre back will get us a whole heap more points.

 

The reason Saints are focusing on solid defending is because keeping a clean sheet nets you, on average, 2.5 points per match, (based on analysis of Prem games between 2000-2011). Scoring a goal is actually only worth about 1 point. This is presumably because scoring 1 guarantees nothing, whilst a clean sheet confirms at LEAST one point in every situation.

Reading the game through good positioning, intercepting, stopping passes, and not making poor passes and minimising turnovers when you have the ball, are all more valuable in stopping teams scoring against us, than the creative side of the game is in making goals.

 

Basically it's easier to organise and stop goals than it is to create them, and if you're stopping them you usually only have to score once to win.

 

The perfect example is Saints towards the end of last season - sudden loss of key players meant we conceded 2 a game for a run of matches - how much does it cost to get the kind of world class player who guarantees you three goals, compared to how much we paid for the two or three players who were missing defensively who had been preventing us conceding two all season?

 

I suspect there's deeper analysis to be done on whether actively playing uber-defensively reduces the value of the points you can get (do you create fewer chances? are those chances less likely to result in goals?), but to counter the single sample statistical outlier examples I expect to see in response, I'll offer Mourinho's Inter and Di Matteo's Chelsea winning the Champions League .

 

Also, football is proven to be an "o-ring" model (named for the frozen rubber part which caused the Space Shuttle to explode), in which you are only as good as your weakest link. It kinda explains why we signed Bertrand rather than gamble with Targett last season - and why we should focus our efforts on improving the defence. That's the risk for Saints - that bringing through the kids might introduce a weak point to be exploited, which is far worse than the upside likely from them being successfully introduced. That (along with the cost of signing players already in the Premier League) could well be why we have bought cheaper from abroad rather than promoted from within in the past year.

 

A lot of this stuff is already "known" about football, but some of it is proven and still counter-intuitive to what people believe.

 

Anyway, this all just proves the obvious, we need to replace Schneiderlin and Alderweireld (as we've already replaced Forster in the short terms). Beyond that, we're looking at throwing mega-money at someone who guarantees us more goals than they stopped.

 

Slight concern at Martina as the single point of failure at the moment, but that's why we have coaches.

[Saint_Ash]

Interesting The9, thanks.

 

If we are following that model I would expect us to get a very good centre back in place to fill the hole left by Toby, we would not have a weak point in the starting 11 for the majority of games. I look forward to see who it is but I'm assuming a 10M+ purchase.

[Professor]

Seems to me that Jack Stephens is likely to get his chance this season which could avoid the need to sign a CB. There is time for him to be tested before the transfer window closes so I'm not expecting an early bid for Van Dijk but I'm sure Les will have his options open.

[Matthew Le God]

Seems to me that Jack Stephens is likely to get his chance this season which could avoid the need to sign a CB.

 

It would be quite a huge shift in thinking to go from having a large bid for Alderweireld, to using Stephens. Are you suggesting Yoshida will move up to first choice alongside Fonte, Gardos 3rd choice and Stephens becomes 4th choice? I think we'll be buying another centre back with the money they would have used for Alderweireld.

Edited 14 July, 2015 by Matthew Le God

[SuperSAINT]

Seems to me that Jack Stephens is likely to get his chance this season which could avoid the need to sign a CB. There is time for him to be tested before the transfer window closes so I'm not expecting an early bid for Van Dijk but I'm sure Les will have his options open.

 

I agree I think we will see Stephen's this season -- but there's no way we aren't signing a new DC.

[Saint_Ash]

Stephens will be eased in but there is no way he'll be first 11 material. We'll have to buy one of those.

[VectisSaint]

My usual argument over the last 5 years is that we need to add 6 players to the squad irrespective of those leaving...

Excellent analysis and write up, pretty much what I have been thinking (without the thought and care of why). The only area I think this does not cover is the keeper situation. The Club will obviously have a better idea that me of when FF will likely be back, but best bet seems to be end of the year (sounds remarkably similar to JRod last year). Stek looks decent (actually looks better than FF to me but thats a different matter), but keeping a clean sheet is very difficult when either FF or Stek are not available. Investing wisely in a CB and DM could all be undone if something happens that forces us to use Gazza, or even worse KD again for more than one or two games. I seriously think another keeper is a must, esepcially if we progress as hoped in the EL.

[suewhistle]

Perhaps one for The9, but how many "weak" Europa teams are we likely to play (assuming we win our games!)? These will give the secondary players a chance as will the early rounds of the cups: the pre-season friendlies reminded me, for example, that Isgrove is surprisingly nippy.... and Gape still looks like a nipper!

[positivepete]

The reason Saints are focusing on solid defending is because keeping a clean sheet nets you, on average, 2.5 points per match, (based on analysis of Prem games between 2000-2011). Scoring a goal is actually only worth about 1 point. This is presumably because scoring 1 guarantees nothing, whilst a clean sheet confirms at LEAST one point in every situation.

Reading the game through good positioning, intercepting, stopping passes, and not making poor passes and minimising turnovers when you have the ball, are all more valuable in stopping teams scoring against us, than the creative side of the game is in making goals.

 

Basically it's easier to organise and stop goals than it is to create them, and if you're stopping them you usually only have to score once to win.

 

The perfect example is Saints towards the end of last season - sudden loss of key players meant we conceded 2 a game for a run of matches - how much does it cost to get the kind of world class player who guarantees you three goals, compared to how much we paid for the two or three players who were missing defensively who had been preventing us conceding two all season?

 

I suspect there's deeper analysis to be done on whether actively playing uber-defensively reduces the value of the points you can get (do you create fewer chances? are those chances less likely to result in goals?), but to counter the single sample statistical outlier examples I expect to see in response, I'll offer Mourinho's Inter and Di Matteo's Chelsea winning the Champions League .

 

Also, football is proven to be an "o-ring" model (named for the frozen rubber part which caused the Space Shuttle to explode), in which you are only as good as your weakest link. It kinda explains why we signed Bertrand rather than gamble with Targett last season - and why we should focus our efforts on improving the defence. That's the risk for Saints - that bringing through the kids might introduce a weak point to be exploited, which is far worse than the upside likely from them being successfully introduced. That (along with the cost of signing players already in the Premier League) could well be why we have bought cheaper from abroad rather than promoted from within in the past year.

 

A lot of this stuff is already "known" about football, but some of it is proven and still counter-intuitive to what people believe.

 

Anyway, this all just proves the obvious, we need to replace Schneiderlin and Alderweireld (as we've already replaced Forster in the short terms). Beyond that, we're looking at throwing mega-money at someone who guarantees us more goals than they stopped.

 

Slight concern at Martina as the single point of failure at the moment, but that's why we have coaches.

 

2.73 points last season, 13 wins 2 draws

[Ewell]

It would be quite a huge shift in thinking to go from having a large bid for Alderweireld, to using Stephens. Are you suggesting Yoshida will move up to first choice alongside Fonte, Gardos 3rd choice and Stephens becomes 4th choice? I think we'll be buying another centre back with the money they would have used for Alderweireld.

 

Whilst I do agree that we will purchase another central defender there can be no doubt that Jordan Turnbull, Bevis Mugabi, Jason McCarthy and particularly Jack Stephens are definitely in Koeman's plans for this season!

 

“I think it’s big enough,” he said. “If we have everybody available, I think we have really a strong team, really a strong squad, and we have some young players back like Jack Stephens, like Jordan Turnbull.

 

"It's a pity that Bevis (Mugabi) now is injured for the next two, three months, and we have Jason McCarthy.

 

"A lot of young, good defenders, and that's one of the philosophies of the club.

 

"We don't really have 28 players in our squad.

 

"Maybe we will have 22, 23 with some young players involved, who get the possibility and opportunity. I expect a lot of Jack Stephens this season.”

 

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/13407638.Koeman__Southampton_squad_is_big_enough_to_cope_with_Europa_League/

[Matthew Le God]

Whilst I do agree that we will purchase another central defender there can be no doubt that Jordan Turnbull, Bevis Mugabi, Jason McCarthy and particularly Jack Stephens are definitely in Koeman's plans for this season!

 

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/13407638.Koeman__Southampton_squad_is_big_enough_to_cope_with_Europa_League/

 

I didn't say they wouldn't be. But Stephens will be 5th choice at best at the beginning of the season, so will have relatively little exposure due to his position in the pecking order.

[Ewell]

I didn't say they wouldn't be. But Stephens will be 5th choice at best at the beginning of the season, so will have relatively little exposure due to his position in the pecking order.

 

I'm right I'm right look at me I am MLG and I am always right. What a **** you are.

[The9]

Seems to me that Jack Stephens is likely to get his chance this season which could avoid the need to sign a CB. There is time for him to be tested before the transfer window closes so I'm not expecting an early bid for Van Dijk but I'm sure Les will have his options open.

 

Previous transfer activity in this area points to this not being the case. The Alderweireld Experiment was a qualified success, only qualified due to his injuries making him less available. Whenever he played CB you could see how much better we were defensively - the stuff about anticipation and positioning was obvious even without needing the stats.

 

We have also repeatedly signed CBs and not tried to bring them through - Forren, Yoshida, Lovren, Alderweireld, Gardos have all been signed in the 3 years we've been back in the Prem. That's nearly 2 CBs a season to add to Fonte and, originally, Hooiveld's presence. Around half of those named players have been Prem successes for us, but we've not once tried to pick an U21 centre back in the Premier League.

[The9]

Excellent analysis and write up, pretty much what I have been thinking (without the thought and care of why). The only area I think this does not cover is the keeper situation. The Club will obviously have a better idea that me of when FF will likely be back, but best bet seems to be end of the year (sounds remarkably similar to JRod last year). Stek looks decent (actually looks better than FF to me but thats a different matter), but keeping a clean sheet is very difficult when either FF or Stek are not available. Investing wisely in a CB and DM could all be undone if something happens that forces us to use Gazza, or even worse KD again for more than one or two games. I seriously think another keeper is a must, esepcially if we progress as hoped in the EL.

 

Actually I think the loss of Forster was hugely overstated. Can't prove it without figures, but Forster's injury coincided with the loss of Schneiderlin and/or Wanyama and as a consequence Alderweireld played in midfield where he was less effective - a quick check of the stats for opposition shots allowed in those games compared to the season average would probably give a decent indicator (as would a stat for defensive interceptions).

 

Keeper shot/save percentages might show the overall effectiveness of the different GKs but at the same time, that doesn't give a measure of the quality or proximity of shots or likelihood they'd be goals whoever the keeper is. We'd need a baseline GK save figure for the whole League over a long period - and Davis/Gazzaniga's sample size isn't exactly huge, so the enormous luck factor involved in all football could be the overriding factor.

[The9]

Perhaps one for The9, but how many "weak" Europa teams are we likely to play (assuming we win our games!)? These will give the secondary players a chance as will the early rounds of the cups: the pre-season friendlies reminded me, for example, that Isgrove is surprisingly nippy.... and Gape still looks like a nipper!

 

Depends on your definition of "weak", but with us seeded in 3rd Qualifying Round and our opponents not, we'd be unlucky to face a better side in that round - Hull rested players in EL last year and lost in the Playoff Round, and we'd have to be lucky with the Playoff Round draw not to face a difficult opponent with 15 Champions League losers dropping in as we probably won't be seeded for that one.

 

So maybe 2 (3rd Qualifying Round) games to test a couple of them out, then the Playoff Round.

 

We may also have some dead rubbers or possible easier opponents in the Group stage if we get that far, but let's cross that bridge when we get to it...

[The9]

Maybe, but then soon after the injury at home to Spurs Kelvin conceded 2 very soft goals in a match we dominated and should have won. I think losing Forster definitely cost us 5 or 6 points along the way. Maybe not awful errors but softer goals did go in.

 

But why are you looking at the goalkeeper and not the weaker players in the team who weren't as effective as their predecessors in preventing the opportunities?

 

It's all about identifying preventative actions that mean the keeper doesn't have to make the save in the first place.

[The9]

2.73 points last season, 13 wins 2 draws

 

Small sample size but very useful indicator of how effective we were. Probably a figure people should bear in mind every time they complain that we didn't score enough when that balance is the obvious trade off.

[The9]

I'm right I'm right look at me I am MLG and I am always right. What a **** you are.

 

Looked like fair comment to me. Stephens is likely to be behind 4 others so is hardly likely to have a huge positive impact on results from there.

[gary3009]

Still dream of a goalscoring midfielder who can score from distance. With our knack of passing it round in the box,it would be great to have a Sigurdsson type to threaten from outside with a bullet on target.

[The9]

smaller than most then

 

Because we pick U21s to bolster the bench, and they don't need to be counted in the figures.

[The9]

Still dream of a goalscoring midfielder who can score from distance. With our knack of passing it round in the box,it would be great to have a Sigurdsson type to threaten from outside with a bullet on target.

 

One of the stats picked up by Anderson/Sally was that Wigan, who were given as an example of a team bucking the trend of wages to position for 7 years in the Prem, used to shoot more from outside the area than any other club. They targeted players with long range shooting abilities and chose a strategy with a low percentage of success but a high return when it was successful - that allied to their success on the counter and at free kicks helped them stay up against the odds for years. Bear in mind the odds of them getting relegated most seasons based on wages alone was around 60%, and they beat that for 7 years.

 

The reason Saints don't shoot from outside the box is that for every additional successful pass the likelihood of a goal being scored becomes greater. Also, reducing turnovers in possession is a very effective way of preventing the opposition from scoring.

[gary3009]

Its an interesting view.I was more thinking of the times when we need something special rather than everyone just shooting though. All our long range shooting and set pieces have gone to pot since Lambert left

[eddie]

completely different point, but I was interested to read on factmint that Pelle won the second most aerial duels of any player in the league last season...even 20 ahead of peter crouch.

[The9]

Yeah it all counts but ultimately if a team only hits the target a couple of times the team is doing a fairly decent defensive job and you need to rely on your keeper. It's just the fact I think Forster would have saved both. And I don't think he's brilliant, they were just very soft goals that day.

 

Keeper is a vital position, gives confidence to the rest of the team. We still restricted chances to the opposition while losing midfielders. When Reed came in after christmas we still did well. But ultimately come the last month or two everyone seemed to lose form together. Probably the pressure more than anything.

 

I'm still fairly sure it was losing key players all over the team from the Chelsea match onwards, and not having Villa being comical against us every week.

 

Confidence is a fairly intangible concept, interceptions, blocks and tackles aren't:

 

http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/news/news/2014-15/nov/131114-defence-key-as-southampton-continue-to-shine.html

 

In November 2014 Saints had made 0 errors leading to goals and 0 errors leading to shots, had only allowed 24 shots on target in the entire season (2.2 per game, leading the Prem). Only 91 shots faced, 2nd in the league, and Forster only had to make 18 saves, 2nd lowest in the division at the time. We had also only used 6 players in the back 5 in that time.

 

The midfield had made 10% more tackles than the next-best team in the league.

 

All of these stats show that we allowed less efforts on goal, had a stable team and prevented chances being created. Even the stat showing Forster had the best save percentage at the time (77.3%) doesn't prove anything much when you consider how few saves he actually had to make, and how the other stats show that teams weren't getting good quality efforts on target.

 

Now consider that we removed Schneiderlin (himself Saints most effective player in terms of goals scored vs conceded when on the pitch), and/or Wanyama, and moved Alderweireld from the back 5, replacing him with Yoshida (who comes last in the net scored v conceded list last season with 0). How is that NOT going to have an impact?

 

It already did have a huge impact against Stoke, Sunderland, Leicester et al near the end of the season, Saints need to be sure that the DM/CB gaps are well plugged before the season starts.

[The9]

completely different point, but I was interested to read on factmint that Pelle won the second most aerial duels of any player in the league last season...even 20 ahead of peter crouch.

 

Whoscored had a whole ream of stats showing Pelle was doing well when people were slating him last season. I put up stats showing he was better than Diego Costa in aerial duels and people just decided to ignore it. Was it Drogba who came top?

[The9]

Its an interesting view.I was more thinking of the times when we need something special rather than everyone just shooting though. All our long range shooting and set pieces have gone to pot since Lambert left

 

Only one in 5 Corners even lead to a shot on goal, and only 1/19 free-kicks leads directly to a goal - they're specialist areas and it's good to improve them, but their impact is significantly less than most people think.

[eddie]

Whoscored had a whole ream of stats showing Pelle was doing well when people were slating him last season. I put up stats showing he was better than Diego Costa in aerial duels and people just decided to ignore it. Was it Drogba who came top?

 

benteke I believe

[Atlanta Saint]

http://talksport.com/football/arsenal-defender-nacho-monreal-closing-ps6m-move-athletic-bilbao-reports-150715157123

Squad Depth

 

Goalkeepers

Forster (From January) - Good

Stekelenberg -Good

Gazza – Capable/Cover

Kelvin – Capable/Cover

 

Defenders – IMHO - a weak area for me at present.

 

CB's

Yoshi - Capable

Fonte - Key Player

Gardos - Capable

Martina - Assumed Capable

Stephens - Unproven

Turnbull - Unproven

McCartmey - Unproven

 

LB's

Bertrand (injured) - Good Player

Target - Capable

Yoshi - Can cover but not in an attacking sense so changes tactics by playing there

Debayo?

 

RB's

Soares - Good Player

Martina - Assumed Capable

Stephens/McCartney - Unproven in the extreme in this position.

 

DM's

Wanyama - Good Player

Reed – Capable

Gape?

 

CM's

JWP - Capable/Good

Davis - Capable/Good

Tadic - Good

Ramriez - Capable/Good Maybe?!?!?!

Sadly all of these fill basically the same position when they play central midfield.

 

Wingers

Mane - Best player imho

Jayrod - Hopefully comes back firing and therefore good, otherwise capable

Tadic - Good

Ramirez – Capable

Hesketh? Sims? Isgrove?

 

Forwards

Gallagher - Capable

Pelle - Good

Jayrod - As above

Seager?

Depth when looking at solid/good first team players (no cover/capable listed):

GK – MS/FF

RB – Soares

LB – Bertrand (Injured)

CB’s – Fonte

 

CDM - Wanyama

CM’s – JWP/Davis/Tadic

 

RW - Sadio

LW - Jayrod

Striker - Pelle

 

In summary, we currently have no real competition amongst our better players.

If wanyama goes we’re up a creak.

If fonte goes we’re up a creak. Similar if gardos or Yoshi go down with injuries :/

If soares goes we’re up a creak

If pelle goes, jayrod is up front, and we’re back to Sadio and tadic on the wings with no solid cover for either.

If sadio or Tadic goes we have good/proven wingers to step up.

We can realistically survive knocks to the attack, because the kids need their chance. But we have to reliable right back cover at all tbh, we need 1 good CB ASAP, we need a CDM/CB to cover Wanyama and we need JC in the CM role.

 

That is a RB, CB,CDM and CM – 3 new players to tick those boxes is solid improvement. 2 is treading water and will lead to us sliding down the league imho.

[Atlanta Saint]

http://talksport.com/football/arsenal-defender-nacho-monreal-closing-ps6m-move-athletic-bilbao-reports-150715157123

Squad Depth Monreal is available apparently

 

Goalkeepers

Forster (From January) - Good

Stekelenberg -Good

Gazza – Capable/Cover

Kelvin – Capable/Cover

 

Defenders – IMHO - a weak area for me at present.

 

CB's

Yoshi - Capable

Fonte - Key Player

Gardos - Capable

Martina - Assumed Capable

Stephens - Unproven

Turnbull - Unproven

McCartmey - Unproven

 

LB's

Bertrand (injured) - Good Player

Target - Capable

Yoshi - Can cover but not in an attacking sense so changes tactics by playing there

Debayo?

 

RB's

Soares - Good Player

Martina - Assumed Capable

Stephens/McCartney - Unproven in the extreme in this position.

 

DM's

Wanyama - Good Player

Reed – Capable

Gape?

 

CM's

JWP - Capable/Good

Davis - Capable/Good

Tadic - Good

Ramriez - Capable/Good Maybe?!?!?!

Sadly all of these fill basically the same position when they play central midfield.

 

Wingers

Mane - Best player imho

Jayrod - Hopefully comes back firing and therefore good, otherwise capable

Tadic - Good

Ramirez – Capable

Hesketh? Sims? Isgrove?

 

Forwards

Gallagher - Capable

Pelle - Good

Jayrod - As above

Seager?

Depth when looking at solid/good first team players (no cover/capable listed):

GK – MS/FF

RB – Soares

LB – Bertrand (Injured)

CB’s – Fonte

 

CDM - Wanyama

CM’s – JWP/Davis/Tadic

 

RW - Sadio

LW - Jayrod

Striker - Pelle

 

In summary, we currently have no real competition amongst our better players.

If wanyama goes we’re up a creak.

If fonte goes we’re up a creak. Similar if gardos or Yoshi go down with injuries :/

If soares goes we’re up a creak

If pelle goes, jayrod is up front, and we’re back to Sadio and tadic on the wings with no solid cover for either.

If sadio or Tadic goes we have good/proven wingers to step up.

We can realistically survive knocks to the attack, because the kids need their chance. But we have to reliable right back cover at all tbh, we need 1 good CB ASAP, we need a CDM/CB to cover Wanyama and we need JC in the CM role.

 

That is a RB, CB,CDM and CM – 3 new players to tick those boxes is solid improvement. 2 is treading water and will lead to us sliding down the league imho.

[positivepete]

benteke I believe

 

Yes.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/11738370/Why-Christian-Benteke-could-be-a-bad-signing-for-Liverpool.html