Batman Posted 2 July, 2015 Share Posted 2 July, 2015 Looks like the powers at be will get the RAF to step up the air strikes and start bombing targets in Syria. No doubt that will also mean the Navy will throw in Cruise Missiles... about time really Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 2 July, 2015 Share Posted 2 July, 2015 The international community need to take this thing more seriously, air strikes on their own is going to achieve very little. The problem is there is little political will in the US and UK after Iraq and no one else is ever arsed about anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 2 July, 2015 Share Posted 2 July, 2015 Amazing to think we'll be knowingly targeting British citizens. Insanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 2 July, 2015 Author Share Posted 2 July, 2015 Amazing to think we'll be knowingly targeting British citizens. Insanity. poor them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano6 Posted 2 July, 2015 Share Posted 2 July, 2015 Amazing to think we'll be knowingly targeting British citizens. Insanity. But it would be fine to target citizens of other countries? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 2 July, 2015 Share Posted 2 July, 2015 poor them You don't find it slightly bizarre? The British Armed Forces bombing groups of British passport holders, many of whom will be using equipment supplied directly or indirectly by the British establishment to overthrow Assad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 2 July, 2015 Share Posted 2 July, 2015 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-23892783 Ffs 2 years ago Cameron was trying to get us to bomb Assad forces. ISIS would be running the whole place now if that had happened. What's to say they won't pick the wrong targets all over again. No wonder the British public aren't interested in getting involved the whole middle east situation is insane. Why should our tax be spent on it? Give it to the disabled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 2 July, 2015 Author Share Posted 2 July, 2015 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-23892783 Ffs 2 years ago Cameron was trying to get us to bomb Assad forces. ISIS would be running the whole place now if that had happened. What's to say they won't pick the wrong targets all over again. No wonder the British public aren't interested in getting involved the whole middle east situation is insane. Why should our tax be spent on it? Give it to the disabled. its happening Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Saint Posted 2 July, 2015 Share Posted 2 July, 2015 You don't find it slightly bizarre? The British Armed Forces bombing groups of British passport holders, many of whom will be using equipment supplied directly or indirectly by the British establishment to overthrow Assad? There is a certain irony, however they chose this jihad, no one can complain when the world decides to say enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holepuncture Posted 2 July, 2015 Share Posted 2 July, 2015 https://news.vice.com/article/my-journey-inside-the-islamic-state?utm_source=vicenewsfb Quite interesting if you have the time to watch. You can tell many are bullsh1tting through total fear. IS seem to be well funded and organised, the filthy scumbags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 2 July, 2015 Share Posted 2 July, 2015 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-23892783 Ffs 2 years ago Cameron was trying to get us to bomb Assad forces. ISIS would be running the whole place now if that had happened. What's to say they won't pick the wrong targets all over again. No wonder the British public aren't interested in getting involved the whole middle east situation is insane. Why should our tax be spent on it? Give it to the disabled. Problem is no one else is going to want to sort out the mess we created and there is little appetite in the US or UK for another war so the situation seems doomed to just get worse and worse. It would be a piece of **** for the west to destroy IS if they wanted to, there is no will though because oil isn't a big enough factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 2 July, 2015 Author Share Posted 2 July, 2015 It would be a piece of **** for the west to destroy IS if they wanted to, there is no will t. true. depends who wins the next US election. the EU are not interested what so ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 2 July, 2015 Share Posted 2 July, 2015 Amazing to think we'll be knowingly targeting British citizens. Insanity. Then take away their passports first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 2 July, 2015 Share Posted 2 July, 2015 Then take away their passports first. Good idea, why aren't we? How are teenagers (immature, depressed, underage, inexperienced, brain washed, thrill seeking, vulnerable, or whatever their problem) getting out of the country? They manage to stop the oh so dangerous hooligans from travelling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcjwills Posted 2 July, 2015 Share Posted 2 July, 2015 I have no issues with any British Muslims leaving to go to Syria to join ISIS as long as they are prepared to forego thier British citizenship and passport. Once they are there, and are no longer British, I have no problem with our troops using any means to defeat them and stop thier expansion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 2 July, 2015 Share Posted 2 July, 2015 (edited) Problem is no one else is going to want to sort out the mess we created and there is little appetite in the US or UK for another war so the situation seems doomed to just get worse and worse. It would be a piece of **** for the west to destroy IS if they wanted to, there is no will though because oil isn't a big enough factor. It's a very complicated picture - for instance there are the Kurds, who are probably the most effective ground forces facing ISIS, but Turkey refuses to provide any form of support or access as the Turks view the Kurds as terrorists, and object to any mention of the formal establishment of a Kurdish controlled territory in northern Syria. Elsewhere, ISIS and Al-Quaeeda / Al-Nusra are at each other's throats. Then there is the US policy of creating 'friendly' anti-ISIS militias, which doesn't really seem to have acheived anything effective, yet ultimately 'boots on the ground', of whatever creed, are essential to winning the conflict - air strikes will not win independently, but western 'boots' would only add to IS's appeal. With hindsight, would we have been better off leaving Saddam Hussein and Muammar Gadaffi in power ? Edited 2 July, 2015 by badgerx16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadhall Saint Posted 2 July, 2015 Share Posted 2 July, 2015 Looks like the powers at be will get the RAF to step up the air strikes and start bombing targets in Syria. No doubt that will also mean the Navy will throw in Cruise Missiles... about time really More killing - just the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 2 July, 2015 Share Posted 2 July, 2015 More killing - just the answer. What are the other options on the table at the moment though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 2 July, 2015 Share Posted 2 July, 2015 Amazing to think we'll be knowingly targeting British citizens. Insanity. The RAF were wrong to bomb Germany, they could have killed poor old William Joyce . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucks Saint Posted 2 July, 2015 Share Posted 2 July, 2015 It would be a piece of **** for the west to destroy IS if they wanted to Thats a relief. Have not seen any mention of this anywhere else, can you let us in on the easy plan please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 2 July, 2015 Share Posted 2 July, 2015 The RAF were wrong to bomb Germany, they could have killed poor old William Joyce . We were at war with Germany, but yeah I disagree with bombing civilian areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 3 July, 2015 Share Posted 3 July, 2015 You don't find it slightly bizarre? The British Armed Forces bombing groups of British passport holders, many of whom will be using equipment supplied directly or indirectly by the British establishment to overthrow Assad?Oh come on ,they are not the average working British taxpayer. They go knowing the risks involved and afterall they are hoping to die so that they can have their 80 virgins....and the 80 mother in laws of course. We need to spend the extra money not on the disabled but by educating and improving the lives of those people in their communities in the UK. I was talking to somebody yesterday who works with abused and fostered kids in Ireland. He said as long as you can get to them before they are 12, you can help them after that it is containment. He warned that the extremists have now had 10 plus years of brainwashing very young kids and they would now be coming to the age where they can unleash their hatred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 3 July, 2015 Share Posted 3 July, 2015 2 years ago it was bomb Assad. Three years ago it was shock and outrage at how badly the Muslim Brotherhood was being treated in Egypt. And on and on and on. Almost every decision the West has made about the Middle East has been plain WRONG. In fact they have been so wrong it becomes so easy to believe the "It's an Israeli conspiracy to destroy any Nation they viewed as a threat". Are all the advisors & CIA THAT incompetent? How the hell could the Israelis think that the new order is safer than before? Streams of Nissan 4x4's pouring over every the hill in the country instead of a line of tanks from Damascus. Yes the RAF now have to go and bomb Syria. Actually because the people who HAVE been fighting Da'eesh need their planes back to fight them in other places. The Saudis need theirs back for Yemen, The Egyptians need theirs back to destroy the Muslim Brotherhood who so surprisingly have morphed into Da'eesh in Sinai. The Kuwaitis need the armed forces back to start patrolling their borders as Da'eesh stream out of the internal crackdown in Saudi. Meanwhile Iran waits to become our new best friend. And thousands die. Simply because there is an election in November and Obama wan't going to get drawn in. Civilian Contractors are fleeing State Department jobs in Iraq supporting them faster than you can book an Uber Chopper ride out. The only cure is for the Yanks to sort out the discord in Iraq and the unfair treatment of the Sunni's. Go bomb Syria and then watch the hand wringing on TV as the propaganda experts show how you blew up a children's hospital or a Monastery. Because if they are not blown up NOW, they will spend the next ten years blowing up your shopping malls and sports stadiums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
so22saint Posted 3 July, 2015 Share Posted 3 July, 2015 Watched this this morning - it's 2 hours long but worth a watch and backs up my theory that rather than a massive conspiracy we actually live primarily in the world of unintended consequences... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3NIXAxt2MQ&feature=youtu.be Adam Curtis - Bitter Lake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 3 July, 2015 Share Posted 3 July, 2015 Watched this this morning - it's 2 hours long but worth a watch and backs up my theory that rather than a massive conspiracy we actually live primarily in the world of unintended consequences... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3NIXAxt2MQ&feature=youtu.be Adam Curtis - Bitter Lake There is a really important idea here that deserved a much better programme. T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcjwills Posted 3 July, 2015 Share Posted 3 July, 2015 Amazing to think we'll be knowingly targeting British citizens. Insanity. Or to put it another way Traitor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 3 July, 2015 Share Posted 3 July, 2015 Or to put it another way Traitorto us they are traitors but they are wrapped up thinking Muslim first.No different to the Jews who put the religion before Nation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackFrost Posted 3 July, 2015 Share Posted 3 July, 2015 It would be a piece of **** for the west to destroy IS if they wanted to We don't even know who they are, let alone how to defeat them. Bomb the living daylights out of their 'caliphate' and they'll just pop up somewhere else. The concept of the Middle East's most notorious psychopaths/sociopaths brainwashing vulnerable/disillusioned youth on social media worldwide is like bacteria spreading. IS aren't in Syria/Iraq. Their in Syria, Iraq, North Africa, West Africa, Australia, the USA, Europe, the list goes on. The harder we bomb, the harder their propaganda machines work. to us they are traitors but they are wrapped up thinking Muslim first.No different to the Jews who put the religion before Nation. Their brainwashed individuals who flee to the caliphate after months of grooming by highly manipulative sociopaths/psychopaths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 3 July, 2015 Share Posted 3 July, 2015 to us they are traitors but they are wrapped up thinking Muslim first.No different to the Jews who put the religion before Nation. What have the Jews done? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 3 July, 2015 Share Posted 3 July, 2015 We don't even know who they are, let alone how to defeat them. Bomb the living daylights out of their 'caliphate' and they'll just pop up somewhere else. The concept of the Middle East's most notorious psychopaths/sociopaths brainwashing vulnerable/disillusioned youth on social media worldwide is like bacteria spreading. IS aren't in Syria/Iraq. Their in Syria, Iraq, North Africa, West Africa, Australia, the USA, Europe, the list goes on. The harder we bomb, the harder their propaganda machines work. Their brainwashed individuals who flee to the caliphate after months of grooming by highly manipulative sociopaths/psychopaths. What are the other suggestions to deal with them though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 3 July, 2015 Share Posted 3 July, 2015 Or to put it another way Traitor They are fighting the evil Tyrant Assad not the UK. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/feb/10/orwell-hero-terrorism-syria-british-fighters-damned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 3 July, 2015 Share Posted 3 July, 2015 We don't even know who they are, let alone how to defeat them. Bomb the living daylights out of their 'caliphate' and they'll just pop up somewhere else. The concept of the Middle East's most notorious psychopaths/sociopaths brainwashing vulnerable/disillusioned youth on social media worldwide is like bacteria spreading. IS aren't in Syria/Iraq. Their in Syria, Iraq, North Africa, West Africa, Australia, the USA, Europe, the list goes on. The harder we bomb, the harder their propaganda machines work. Their brainwashed individuals who flee to the caliphate after months of grooming by highly manipulative sociopaths/psychopaths. What I meant is that as a military force in Iraq/Syria they could be defeated easily. If the west wanted some sort of control over the region they could easily do it with enough boots on the ground. Sure there would still be terror attacks, IEDs ect but they could be stopped from creating their own state and ruling the areas like they are. IS flourished because we ****ed up the country and left a vacume. The only way to defeat them Long term is to work with Assad and give proper support to the Kurds and Iraqi government. Plus most importantly make sure the Iraqi government treat the Sunnis fairly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 3 July, 2015 Share Posted 3 July, 2015 (edited) This story is a blatant example of the very worse kind of cynical tokenism from a Government that likes to praise our armed forces while failing to invest in them. Whether it is a wise decision or not, the hard truth ministers are not bothering to tell the British public is that the RAF - at a stretch - can just about manage to deploy a token force of just 8 Tornado GR4 aircraft (plus some unmanned drones) to conduct these anti-ISIS strikes. Of those 8 aircraft perhaps 2 are operational at any one time. Look at a map - the area to be covered here is vast while the number of RAF aircraft involved is tiny. So whether Parliament approves an extension of the bombing campaign into Syria or not matters very little in the grand scheme of things because we no longer have sufficient air-power to make much of a difference on the ground anyway. That people is where we are 'at' now. The principle reason our air force, navy, and army are all so feeble now is because the last (2010) defence review forced a series of severe cutbacks on our armed forces that have left this once powerful nation sliding rapidly towards a state of military irrelevancy. Another defence 'review' - code for further cutbacks - is due in a few months time I'm sorry to say. Furthermore, indications that this nation will soon abandon the NATO 2% GDP defence spending target (an objective that David Cameron himself agreed to not very long ago) coupled with the staggering amount of money the new Conservative administration plan to sink into the ''Successor'' nuclear submarine project, hardly suggest that the remains of our conventional armed forces are about to recover anytime soon. This nation's defences are weaker today than at any other point in our modern history. Edited 3 July, 2015 by CHAPEL END CHARLIE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 3 July, 2015 Share Posted 3 July, 2015 Maybe we should just nuke the twts , it worked with the Japanese. It'll also do them a favour as they'll get to meet these virgins with all their mates together . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 3 July, 2015 Share Posted 3 July, 2015 Maybe we should just nuke the twts , it worked with the Japanese. It'll also do them a favour as they'll get to meet these virgins with all their mates together . Thanks for the constructive input Willie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 3 July, 2015 Author Share Posted 3 July, 2015 This story is a blatant example of the very worse kind of cynical tokenism from a Government that likes to praise our armed forces while failing to invest in them. Whether it is a wise decision or not, the hard truth ministers are not bothering to tell the British public is that the RAF - at a stretch - can just about manage to deploy a token force of just 8 Tornado GR4 aircraft (plus some unmanned drones) to conduct these anti-ISIS strikes. Of those 8 aircraft perhaps 2 are operational at any one time. Look at a map - the area to be covered here is vast while the number of RAF aircraft involved is tiny. So whether Parliament approves an extension of the bombing campaign into Syria or not matters very little in the grand scheme of things because we no longer have sufficient air-power to make much of a difference on the ground anyway. That people is where we are 'at' now. The principle reason our air force, navy, and army are all so feeble now is because the last (2010) defence review forced a series of severe cutbacks on our armed forces that have left this once powerful nation sliding rapidly towards a state of military irrelevancy. Another defence 'review' - code for further cutbacks - is due in a few months time I'm sorry to say. Furthermore, indications that this nation will soon abandon the NATO 2% GDP defence spending target (an objective that David Cameron himself agreed to not very long ago) coupled with the staggering amount of money the new Conservative administration plan to sink into the ''Successor'' nuclear submarine project, hardly suggest that the remains of our conventional armed forces are about to recover anytime soon. This nation's defences are weaker today than at any other point in our modern history. The new carriers were designed to be true aircraft carriers (clearly) Like moving an airbase around the world. To carry out round the clock continuos strikes against someone from it, it would need 36 aircraft. They are designed to carry more than that. We will be lucky if the RN and the RAF get 36 of these new aircraft between them Agree with you about further cuts and I think it will be the army who will bear the brunt of it this time. Now operations in Afghanistan are over and they are all coming home from Germany Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatch Posted 4 July, 2015 Share Posted 4 July, 2015 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-33391871 Israel wont **** about . They don't give a shyte about world opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 6 July, 2015 Author Share Posted 6 July, 2015 (edited) Some chap wandering around trafalgar square draped in an ISIS flag and the police didn't want to do anything as it might cause offence Not seeing a labour politician retweeting a picture of this chap saying "enough said" this time Funny that. No doubt, some do good dodge pot in some pointless council will tell someone to take their Union Jack down next week as well may offend someone else Edited 6 July, 2015 by Batman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 6 July, 2015 Share Posted 6 July, 2015 Some chap wandering around trafalgar square draped in an ISIS flag and the police didn't want to do anything as it might cause offence Not seeing a labour politician retweeting a picture of this chap saying "enough said" this time Funny that. No doubt, some do good dodge pot in some pointless council will tell someone to take their Union Jack down next week as well may offend someone else So you pretty much just make stuff up now? He wasn't arrested because there is nothing illegal about carrying a flag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 7 July, 2015 Author Share Posted 7 July, 2015 So you pretty much just make stuff up now? He wasn't arrested because there is nothing illegal about carrying a flag. in terms of incitement, close to 7/7 right after Tunisia. there was. some chap who used to be pretty high up in the MET was on LBC saying how disgusted he was with the police force for letting this go given the date of this happening. however, it was just a flag. Like it was just a St Georges cross that the labour lady tweeted a stupid remark about or it is just a Union Jack that has to be brought down because some faceless council worker says so.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norwaysaint Posted 7 July, 2015 Share Posted 7 July, 2015 This will cost Britain billions and have a minimal effect. Saudi Arabia, the country largely funding IS, must be loving watching the west plough themselves further into debt fighting a battle in the most expensive and least effective way possible. The only way to really have an effect on IS is troops on the ground and that would be very messy indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackFrost Posted 7 July, 2015 Share Posted 7 July, 2015 Some chap wandering around trafalgar square draped in an ISIS flag and the police didn't want to do anything as it might cause offence Not seeing a labour politician retweeting a picture of this chap saying "enough said" this time Funny that. No doubt, some do good dodge pot in some pointless council will tell someone to take their Union Jack down next week as well may offend someone else The police didn't do anything because the bloke wasn't breaking the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 7 July, 2015 Share Posted 7 July, 2015 This will cost Britain billions and have a minimal effect. Saudi Arabia, the country largely funding IS, must be loving watching the west plough themselves further into debt fighting a battle in the most expensive and least effective way possible ... The EU in effect has now become one of the largest financial contributors to the Islamic State via our collective inability/unwillingness to halt the onslaught of immigration into Europe from N Africa and the Middle East. Many of the so-called 'people traffickers' involved in this illicit trade are in fact affiliated to IS. Therefore, much of the money raised from these cynically exploited refuges - people in a truly desperate situation - goes either directly or indirectly towards funding Sunni extremism. Our humanist values mean - quite rightly - that we cannot permit large numbers of innocent people to drown in the Mediterranean and neither (as yet) have we decided to simply send these unfortunates back from whence they came. Every single refugee that successfully makes it into the EU guarantees of course that ten more will eventually follow as the world's supply of poor and desperate people is surely inexhaustible. In that sense our enemy is now employing our own western liberal values as a weapon to use against us. If this strategy wasn't so very wicked you could almost admire its ingenuity. It may be that the only way to defeat our enemy might be to act nearly as ruthlessly as they do - a (miserable) old lesson that history has taught Humanity many times before ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 7 July, 2015 Author Share Posted 7 July, 2015 The police didn't do anything because the bloke wasn't breaking the law. in term of possible incitement, he was which was according to the ex MET officer and other police types who phoned up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 7 July, 2015 Share Posted 7 July, 2015 The EU in effect has now become one of the largest financial contributors to the Islamic State via our collective inability/unwillingness to halt the onslaught of immigration into Europe from N Africa and the Middle East. Many of the so-called 'people traffickers' involved in this illicit trade are in fact affiliated to IS. Therefore, much of the money raised from these cynically exploited refuges - people in a truly desperate situation - goes either directly or indirectly towards funding Sunni extremism. Our humanist values mean - quite rightly - that we cannot permit large numbers of innocent people to drown in the Mediterranean and neither (as yet) have we decided to simply send these unfortunates back from whence they came. Every single refugee that successfully makes it into the EU guarantees of course that ten more will eventually follow as the world's supply of poor and desperate people is surely inexhaustible. In that sense our enemy is now employing our own western liberal values as a weapon to use against us. If this strategy wasn't so very wicked you could almost admire its ingenuity. It may be that the only way to defeat our enemy might be to act nearly as ruthlessly as they do - a (miserable) old lesson that history has taught Humanity many times before ... Source? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 They are fighting the evil Tyrant Assad not the UK. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/feb/10/orwell-hero-terrorism-syria-british-fighters-damned Interesting comparison although as far as I know Orwell didn't join a group of barbarians who behead anyone who opposes them.. And the banker comparison is just embarrassing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 8 July, 2015 Share Posted 8 July, 2015 2 years ago it was bomb Assad. Three years ago it was shock and outrage at how badly the Muslim Brotherhood was being treated in Egypt. And on and on and on. Almost every decision the West has made about the Middle East has been plain WRONG. . We'll be backing Al Qaida again soon. The enemy of ISIS. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3139194/12-victims-12-masked-executioners-ISIS-beheads-dozen-men-accused-fighting-Al-Qaeda-new-sickening-video.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 10 July, 2015 Author Share Posted 10 July, 2015 Little bit old. Would get a few here uncomfortable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 10 July, 2015 Share Posted 10 July, 2015 Source? IS involvement in people smuggling is quite well known I would have thought - but here you go anyway:http://www.strategypage.com/qnd/libya/articles/20150705.aspx Another factor contributing to the growth of ISIL is the people smuggling, which has grown enormously, from practically nothing in 2011 to over thousand paying illegal migrants a day. This really began in 2013 when criminal gangs (often tribe or militia based) connected with Italian gangsters and organized the illegal movement of African and Middle Eastern illegal refugees to Europe via Libya. Kaddafi never tolerated this sort of thing, but Libya is, next to Morocco, the closest to Europe. By the end of 2013 some 500 people a day were illegally crossing the southern border of Libya in an effort to make it to Europe. That number appears to have nearly tripled since then. Since 2000 over 250,000 illegal migrants have reached Europe, mainly through Italy. Most of these illegals have arrived since 2013 and over 80 percent moved via Libya. The EU (European Union) has helped out here by organizing a naval rescue force that has prevented most of the drownings and delivered the illegal migrants safely to Italy. During one 48 hour period in early June this task force rescued over 6,000 people. But Italy is fed up with all the illegal migrants and the cost and other problems they bring with them. Both the Tobruk and Tripoli government warn that any EU warships or rescue vessels entering territorial waters (within 22 kilometers of the coast) risk being fired on. These threats came into response to a late June EU decision to have its naval forces off Libya more aggressively go after people smugglers on the refugee boats. Because of this some refugee boats turn back to Libya if they spot an approaching warship. The EU is also putting pressure on gang members or associates in Italy and other EU countries. As more of these gangsters are captured, identified and interrogated more details of the gangs involved is obtained. For ISIL, taking control of people smuggling was a natural as it brought in cash that pays smugglers to bring in food and equipment, as well as weapons and explosives that cannot be obtained (stolen or bought) locally. ISIL also finds that it can send ISIL men to Europe in the refugee boats and European counter-terrorism agencies are beginning to detect this. ISIL also steals oil in Libya as well as kidnapping locals and foreigners for ransom. In part because ISIL profits most from the people smuggling the Tripoli and Tobruk both now interfere with the smuggling operations more frequently. This forces some of the smuggler operations to move to ISIL controlled ports. There aren’t too many of those, but enough to keep the smuggling going. Because so many areas of Libya have no government presence Libya has become a favorite hideout for Islamic terrorists, especially if they are willing to swear allegiance to ISIL. Despite the profits to be made from smuggling ISIL will still occasionally seize non-Moslem migrants and try forcing them to convert. Non-Moslem foreign workers still in Libya are more frequently the target of harassment (including murder) by ISIL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 10 July, 2015 Share Posted 10 July, 2015 IS involvement in people smuggling is quite well known I would have thought - but here you go anyway:http://www.strategypage.com/qnd/libya/articles/20150705.aspx So we brought that on ourselves too by bombing Libya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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