Calais

[Batman]

Anyone been there lately?

Looks horrific on the news/various papers.

 

what a dump created by those wanting to come over here

[View From The Top]

Anyone been there lately?

Looks horrific on the news/various papers.

 

what a dump created by those wanting to come over here

 

Only ever go to the Chunnel straight off the motorway so never see anything of the camps. Doing Newhaven - Dieppe this time around though.

[Sour Mash]

The French doing nothing about it is a disgrace.

 

God knows why anyone would want these people, their culture and behaviour to land on these shores.

[Block 18]

The French doing nothing about it is a disgrace.

 

God knows why anyone would want these people, their culture and behaviour to land on these shores.

 

Thought that they landed in about 1066

[holepuncture]

Anyone been there lately?

Looks horrific on the news/various papers.

 

what a dump created by those wanting to come over here

 

Not personally, though the ITV 10pm news footage last night was horrific, one bloke interviewed in the traffic pointed out that they are all fit and able young men who are coming to the UK to abuse the system, they're not asylum seekers at all.

 

Lorry callers calling into the Jeremy Vine show on Radio 2 earlier spoke of the experience, these people throwing bricks at their windscreens, pushing shopping trolleys etc in front of the trucks, carrying knives, metal bars and other tools designed to fight or break into/tear open the lorries. Car passengers returning from holidays called in to say they were extremely intimidated and frightened, with people clinging to their cars and trying to chase them down.

 

As this problem is only set to escalate I believe we need to get the army involved, the French don't care so we need to take control.

 

The French doing nothing about it is a disgrace.

 

God knows why anyone would want these people, their culture and behaviour to land on these shores.

 

The liberal brigade will set you straight, however they're preaching from the safety of a nice middle class/gentrified area which will not be affected! Of course these freedom fighters are in fact NIMBYs, and will not be the ones fixing the inevitable fallout. Happy to be proved wrong and see them welcome these people into their homes, feed them and provide cash from their bank accounts, though I doubt it.

[Batman]

Not personally, though the ITV 10pm news footage last night was horrific, one bloke interviewed in the traffic pointed out that they are all fit and able young men who are coming to the UK to abuse the system, they're not asylum seekers at all.

 

Lorry callers calling into the Jeremy Vine show on Radio 2 earlier spoke of the experience, these people throwing bricks at their windscreens, pushing shopping trolleys etc in front of the trucks, carrying knives, metal bars and other tools designed to fight or break into/tear open the lorries. Car passengers returning from holidays called in to say they were extremely intimidated and frightened, with people clinging to their cars and trying to chase them down.

 

As this problem is only set to escalate I believe we need to get the army involved, the French don't care so we need to take control.

 

 

 

The liberal brigade will set you straight, however they're preaching from the safety of a nice middle class/gentrified area which will not be affected! Of course these freedom fighters are in fact NIMBYs, and will not be the ones fixing the inevitable fallout. Happy to be proved wrong and see them welcome these people into their homes, feed them and provide cash from their bank accounts, though I doubt it.

 

the all loving EU seem to be doing almost nothing about it.

 

we will have to welcome these people here, let them use our NHS etc.....to say otherwise will usually result in you being labelled a biggoted UKiP'er

[holepuncture]

Only ever go to the Chunnel straight off the motorway so never see anything of the camps. Doing Newhaven - Dieppe this time around though.

 

Cherbourg, Brittany, Dieppe, Le Harve, Dunkirk, all are experiencing the same trouble, albeit not on the scale of Calais. For now that is.

 

Be careful travelling during the end of the school/summer breaks due to the inevitable bottle necks queuing to get on the ferries, if you take a caravan/motor-home prepare to be pirated by an armed man!

[buctootim]

if you take a caravan/motor-home prepare to be pirated by an armed man!

 

Too much Daily Mail methinks. There is a problem at Calais,I havent seen anything at Dieppe or Dunkirk in the past couple of months.

[Batman]

Too much Daily Mail methinks. There is a problem at Calais,I havent seen anything at Dieppe or Dunkirk in the past couple of months.

 

more like Sky, BBC and ITV news

 

just visited the Mail website and this story is no where near the top of their page.

Top story on the BBC site though.

Even the Guardian have it as a higher news article

 

but yeah, too much daily mail

Edited 24 June, 2015 by Batman

[Hatch]

Maybe we should bomb France for their genocide, and making these people wanting to escape France for safer shores

[View From The Top]

Cherbourg, Brittany, Dieppe, Le Harve, Dunkirk, all are experiencing the same trouble, albeit not on the scale of Calais. For now that is.

 

Be careful travelling during the end of the school/summer breaks due to the inevitable bottle necks queuing to get on the ferries, if you take a caravan/motor-home prepare to be pirated by an armed man!

 

'kin drama queen.

[View From The Top]

the all loving EU seem to be doing almost nothing about it.

 

we will have to welcome these people here, let them use our NHS etc.....to say otherwise will usually result in you being labelled a biggoted UKiP'er

 

Love the way you just make sh11t up. No one, not one person I can see, anywhere, has said we should welcome them.

[buctootim]

more like Sky, BBC and ITV news

 

just visited the Mail website and this story is no where near the top of their page.

Top story on the BBC site though.

Even the Guardian have it as a higher news article

 

but yeah, too much daily mail

 

The BBC story doesnt mention any other port apart from Calais and nothing about a problem for anyone but lorry drivers - but go ahead, pretend there is support for the "if you take a caravan/motor-home prepare to be pirated by an armed man!" claim.

[Sour Mash]

Love the way you just make sh11t up. No one, not one person I can see, anywhere, has said we should welcome them.

Loads of people have said we should be taking them. Many of these people at Calais are the same as those on the boats in the med.

[Batman]

Love the way you just make sh11t up. No one, not one person I can see, anywhere, has said we should welcome them.

 

as Sour Mash just said. these are pretty much the same people that have made it across the med on the boats. Plenty of people have said we have an 'obligation' to welcome them

[holepuncture]

Too much Daily Mail methinks. There is a problem at Calais,I havent seen anything at Dieppe or Dunkirk in the past couple of months.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11068265/Calais-police-stop-400-migrants-over-weekend-as-numbers-trying-to-reach-UK-hit-3000-per-month.html

 

Its an old article, though I did caveat 'For now that is'. Torygraph too, bigot!

 

'kin drama queen.

 

Pipe down you silly old duffer

[buctootim]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11068265/Calais-police-stop-400-migrants-over-weekend-as-numbers-trying-to-reach-UK-hit-3000-per-month.html

 

Its an old article, though I did caveat 'For now that is'. Torygraph too, bigot!

 

Still no mention of anything but trucks. People might think the caravan hijacking thing was just made up hysteria.

[moonraker]

While I do not sit in the "there all benefits scroungers in the making camp" this problem requires some true leadership and conviction, not by British Politicians but by the French. This is a French problem not therefore we need to be told how they got all the way across France without being apprehended? If they are in France and Asylum seekers they should seek Asylum there, if they are straight forward refugees then the French should process them in accordance with the (inadequate as they are) EU rules. The Mayor of Calais should look to his own for answers not to us.

[Special K]

Cherbourg, Brittany, Dieppe, Le Harve, Dunkirk, all are experiencing the same trouble, albeit not on the scale of Calais. For now that is.

 

Be careful travelling during the end of the school/summer breaks due to the inevitable bottle necks queuing to get on the ferries, if you take a caravan/motor-home prepare to be pirated by an armed man!

 

I travel regularly on the Pompey to Caen / Le Havre Ferry and have never seen anything remotely resembling what is happening in Calais.

[Window Cleaner]

While I do not sit in the "there all benefits scroungers in the making camp" this problem requires some true leadership and conviction, not by British Politicians but by the French. This is a French problem not therefore we need to be told how they got all the way across France without being apprehended? If they are in France and Asylum seekers they should seek Asylum there, if they are straight forward refugees then the French should process them in accordance with the (inadequate as they are) EU rules. The Mayor of Calais should look to his own for answers not to us.

 

It's not a French problem at all, it's a Schengen problem, once they're in the Schengen space there are no controls until

they try to get out of it and into Britain. Thanks to the catastrophic gouvernance of Hollande and his loony left acolytes we now have 3.55 million people totally unemployed and another 2 million on very reduced hours. All of this because the loony left insist on letting people for whom we have no solution stay in the country and refuse to close the borders. Sarko threw a load out and Brussels came down on him like a ton of bricks. Just wait and see what happens when the Front get elected.

[View From The Top]

Loads of people have said we should be taking them. Many of these people at Calais are the same as those on the boats in the med.

 

I'm sure you can find me evidence of "loads of people" saying how we should take those at Calais. Not saving lives in the Med, but taking those at Calais.

[Window Cleaner]

I'm sure you can find me evidence of "loads of people" saying how we should take those at Calais. Not saving lives in the Med, but taking those at Calais.

 

Would about 60 million French count?

[View From The Top]

Would about 60 million French count?

 

Clearly not as we are talking about the UK.

[Window Cleaner]

Clearly not as we are talking about the UK.

 

But if they could all move to say Ostend or the Hook to try their luck that would be extremely handy. We've half of our army on street corners watching out for terrorists as it is already.

[aintforever]

Loads of people have said we should be taking them. Many of these people at Calais are the same as those on the boats in the med.

 

Saving peoples lives at sea is different to wanting to let everyone who wants to into the UK.

 

All the hype about these people at Calais is a bit of a joke considering the amount of people who waltz into this country from all over Europe each year. Why are People getting so upset - is it because they are brown?

[Horley CTFC Saint]

I travel regularly on the Pompey to Caen / Le Havre Ferry and have never seen anything remotely resembling what is happening in Calais.

You mean there are no asylum seekers trying to get out of Pompey? I don't believe yoiu

[Sour Mash]

I'm sure you can find me evidence of "loads of people" saying how we should take those at Calais. Not saving lives in the Med, but taking those at Calais.

 

Super Mikey and Bridge Too Far on the Mediterranean Ferry thread on this page alone. Plenty on twitter.

 

What do you think loads of those people we're helping to land in Greece and Italy are going to do?

 

But as you say, no-one is saying we should take them

[Sour Mash]

Saving peoples lives at sea is different to wanting to let everyone who wants to into the UK.

 

All the hype about these people at Calais is a bit of a joke considering the amount of people who waltz into this country from all over Europe each year. Why are People getting so upset - is it because they are brown?

 

We're dumping these people on Italy and Greece, what do people expect to happen then?

 

I agree, our whole immigration policy has been an utter mess for years, too many with their heads in the sand on the subject.

Edited 24 June, 2015 by Sour Mash

[JackFrost]

There's so many that they can't process a lot of them.

 

Half the time when the police arrest them trying to jump into lorries in Calais, they drive them 200 yards down the road and let them go.

[Batman]

Bulwark has picked up another 1000 or so migrants from the med. Guess more will arrive at Calais.

 

Luckily, Bulwark is coming home soon and will be replaced with a small ship that is not really cut out to pluck hundreds out of the water. AND is not there to really do that

[aintforever]

We're dumping these people on Italy and Greece, what do people expect to happen then?

 

I agree, our whole immigration policy has been an utter mess for years, too many with their heads in the sand on the subject.

 

I don't have a problem with helping genuine asylum seekers. We should get out the EU, get control of our borders so we can help more people like this instead of having mass immigration from Europe.

[Verbal]

I agree, our whole immigration policy has been an utter mess for years, too many with their heads in the sand on the subject.

 

It’s not immigration policy that’s at the root of this. It’s not the EU either. Nor is it even especially the British government.

 

The overwhelming reason the migrants are running for the trucks is that there is a perception that the UK alone is a kind of over-protective welfare state, where universal provision puts a roof over everyone’s head regardless of nationality.

 

The reality is lightly different, of course.

 

However, the UK does have a welfare system that has come to benefit one welfare claimant above all: big business. Think of the Tesco business model: screw hard down on supplier costs, to the point where dairy farmers produce milk at a loss, and harder still on labour costs, to the point where their shop-workers qualify for income support, housing benefit, etc. Paying their staff such low wages, and forcing them to claim a state subsidy to live, means they work long hours in unpleasant jobs and are thanked by being demoralised and dehumanised in the process.

 

In other words, the Tesco business model – as crap as it now looks after all the scandals – is predicated on massive rip-off of taxpayers. Even some of the brighter Tories, like Steve Hilton, now recognise this.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3136902/STEVE-HILTON-s-crazy-taxpayers-subsidise-supermarkets-pay-staff-pittance.html

 

The problem is that our welfare system has been systematically distorted by large corporations to subsidise their extraordinary profits and vastly inflated executive pay – but most of all to pay their workers a substantial ‘top up’ for a decent living wage. This is also why we have become a low-wage/low productivity/low investment country, unlike France and Germany.

 

Whenever harsher immigration controls are proposed, among the first to object are these same large UK/multinational companies, who see that such a move will drive labour costs up.

 

As by far the biggest scroungers, the big corporations have their hooks into the British welfare state, and one by-product of that the benefits system for those on the fringes of employment – notably migrants – are startlingly attractive.

 

What we’re seeing at Calais and elsewhere can only be addressed in the long term by driving the large corporations out of the British welfare state and rebalancing the benefits regime within a high-wage economy. When these benefits look essentially no different to anywhere else in northern Europe, the huge pressures at the borders will subside.

[Sour Mash]

It’s not immigration policy that’s at the root of this. It’s not the EU either. Nor is it even especially the British government.

 

The overwhelming reason the migrants are running for the trucks is that there is a perception that the UK alone is a kind of over-protective welfare state, where universal provision puts a roof over everyone’s head regardless of nationality.

 

The reality is lightly different, of course.

 

However, the UK does have a welfare system that has come to benefit one welfare claimant above all: big business. Think of the Tesco business model: screw hard down on supplier costs, to the point where dairy farmers produce milk at a loss, and harder still on labour costs, to the point where their shop-workers qualify for income support, housing benefit, etc. Paying their staff such low wages, and forcing them to claim a state subsidy to live, means they work long hours in unpleasant jobs and are thanked by being demoralised and dehumanised in the process.

 

In other words, the Tesco business model – as crap as it now looks after all the scandals – is predicated on massive rip-off of taxpayers. Even some of the brighter Tories, like Steve Hilton, now recognise this.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3136902/STEVE-HILTON-s-crazy-taxpayers-subsidise-supermarkets-pay-staff-pittance.html

 

The problem is that our welfare system has been systematically distorted by large corporations to subsidise their extraordinary profits and vastly inflated executive pay – but most of all to pay their workers a substantial ‘top up’ for a decent living wage. This is also why we have become a low-wage/low productivity/low investment country, unlike France and Germany.

 

Whenever harsher immigration controls are proposed, among the first to object are these same large UK/multinational companies, who see that such a move will drive labour costs up.

 

As by far the biggest scroungers, the big corporations have their hooks into the British welfare state, and one by-product of that the benefits system for those on the fringes of employment – notably migrants – are startlingly attractive.

 

What we’re seeing at Calais and elsewhere can only be addressed in the long term by driving the large corporations out of the British welfare state and rebalancing the benefits regime within a high-wage economy. When these benefits look essentially no different to anywhere else in northern Europe, the huge pressures at the borders will subside.

 

No-one said our immigration policy was the root of all this, I was just responding to aintforever's point about eu immigration.

[Sour Mash]

I don't have a problem with helping genuine asylum seekers. We should get out the EU, get control of our borders so we can help more people like this instead of having mass immigration from Europe.

 

But a lot of the people on the boats in the med aren't asylum seekers. They're economic migrants heading to the UK.

[bridge too far]

It’s not immigration policy that’s at the root of this. It’s not the EU either. Nor is it even especially the British government.

 

The overwhelming reason the migrants are running for the trucks is that there is a perception that the UK alone is a kind of over-protective welfare state, where universal provision puts a roof over everyone’s head regardless of nationality.

 

The reality is lightly different, of course.

 

However, the UK does have a welfare system that has come to benefit one welfare claimant above all: big business. Think of the Tesco business model: screw hard down on supplier costs, to the point where dairy farmers produce milk at a loss, and harder still on labour costs, to the point where their shop-workers qualify for income support, housing benefit, etc. Paying their staff such low wages, and forcing them to claim a state subsidy to live, means they work long hours in unpleasant jobs and are thanked by being demoralised and dehumanised in the process.

 

In other words, the Tesco business model – as crap as it now looks after all the scandals – is predicated on massive rip-off of taxpayers. Even some of the brighter Tories, like Steve Hilton, now recognise this.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3136902/STEVE-HILTON-s-crazy-taxpayers-subsidise-supermarkets-pay-staff-pittance.html

 

The problem is that our welfare system has been systematically distorted by large corporations to subsidise their extraordinary profits and vastly inflated executive pay – but most of all to pay their workers a substantial ‘top up’ for a decent living wage. This is also why we have become a low-wage/low productivity/low investment country, unlike France and Germany.

 

Whenever harsher immigration controls are proposed, among the first to object are these same large UK/multinational companies, who see that such a move will drive labour costs up.

 

As by far the biggest scroungers, the big corporations have their hooks into the British welfare state, and one by-product of that the benefits system for those on the fringes of employment – notably migrants – are startlingly attractive.

 

What we’re seeing at Calais and elsewhere can only be addressed in the long term by driving the large corporations out of the British welfare state and rebalancing the benefits regime within a high-wage economy. When these benefits look essentially no different to anywhere else in northern Europe, the huge pressures at the borders will subside.

 

Excellent:toppa:

[hutch]

While I do not sit in the "there all benefits scroungers in the making camp" this problem requires some true leadership and conviction, not by British Politicians but by the French. This is a French problem not therefore we need to be told how they got all the way across France without being apprehended? If they are in France and Asylum seekers they should seek Asylum there, if they are straight forward refugees then the French should process them in accordance with the (inadequate as they are) EU rules. The Mayor of Calais should look to his own for answers not to us.

This is a good starting point, worth expanding.

 

Let's leave open the difference between refugees, asylum seekers and illegal immigrants for the time being.

 

The real question is not why, if they are genuine asylum seekers fleeing torture, persecution or death that they didn't request asylum when they were crossing France? It's why they didn't ask for assylum in any one of the other fifteen countries they crossed before they got to France. I've asked before, without any answer, which Syrian port do the current influx of Syrian refugees claiming asylum use to get on the leaky fishing boats to the EU?

 

Bleeding hearts like btf will have you believe that we owe them a living because our great, great, great grandparents exploited somebody that came from the same country as their great, great, great grandparents. The simple answer is that since then several million citizens from former colonies have already become British citizens settled here and making valuable contribution to modern Britain's cosmopolitan culture. I personally have absolutely no problem with that. They also continue to settle here, hundreds of thousands every year, perfectly legally by making the proper applications through the proper channels.

 

The more complex answer is that Henry VIII stole my ancestor's land, so when am I getting it back?

 

I've made the point before and make it again. The vast majority of these people loitering with intent at the channel ports, falling out of the sky in West London and begging for help in fishing boats in the Mediterranean are not genuine asylum seekers. They are just chancers and should be sent packing back to where they came from.

 

They are doing untold harm to the genuine asylum seekers that really, really do need our help and compassion.

[hutch]

It’s not immigration policy that’s at the root of this. It’s not the EU either. Nor is it even especially the British government.

 

The overwhelming reason the migrants are running for the trucks is that there is a perception that the UK alone is a kind of over-protective welfare state, where universal provision puts a roof over everyone’s head regardless of nationality.

 

The reality is lightly different, of course.

 

However, the UK does have a welfare system that has come to benefit one welfare claimant above all: big business. Think of the Tesco business model: screw hard down on supplier costs, to the point where dairy farmers produce milk at a loss, and harder still on labour costs, to the point where their shop-workers qualify for income support, housing benefit, etc. Paying their staff such low wages, and forcing them to claim a state subsidy to live, means they work long hours in unpleasant jobs and are thanked by being demoralised and dehumanised in the process.

 

In other words, the Tesco business model – as crap as it now looks after all the scandals – is predicated on massive rip-off of taxpayers. Even some of the brighter Tories, like Steve Hilton, now recognise this.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3136902/STEVE-HILTON-s-crazy-taxpayers-subsidise-supermarkets-pay-staff-pittance.html

 

The problem is that our welfare system has been systematically distorted by large corporations to subsidise their extraordinary profits and vastly inflated executive pay – but most of all to pay their workers a substantial ‘top up’ for a decent living wage. This is also why we have become a low-wage/low productivity/low investment country, unlike France and Germany.

 

Whenever harsher immigration controls are proposed, among the first to object are these same large UK/multinational companies, who see that such a move will drive labour costs up.

 

As by far the biggest scroungers, the big corporations have their hooks into the British welfare state, and one by-product of that the benefits system for those on the fringes of employment – notably migrants – are startlingly attractive.

 

What we’re seeing at Calais and elsewhere can only be addressed in the long term by driving the large corporations out of the British welfare state and rebalancing the benefits regime within a high-wage economy. When these benefits look essentially no different to anywhere else in northern Europe, the huge pressures at the borders will subside.

Not a lot wrong with that quick and dirty summary of the inevitable consequences of a weak government.

 

The debate is when it all started. My own view is that it will take more than a generation to sort out the mess that the Blair/Brown dynasty bequeathed us.

[buctootim]

The debate is when it all started. My own view is that it will take more than a generation to sort out the mess that the Blair/Brown dynasty bequeathed us.

 

Brown and Blair were the only ones to attempt to tackle the problem, by introducing the minimum wage.

[buctootim]

The overwhelming reason the migrants are running for the trucks is that there is a perception that the UK alone is a kind of over-protective welfare state, where universal provision puts a roof over everyone’s head regardless of nationality.

 

Part of it is the fact we speak English. If you are looking for a job and a better life then you will go where you speak the language. Far more Afghans, Somalis, Nigerians etc will speak a little English than will speak German, or Italian or French. The ubiquity of our language is part of the reason for the influx - not just from far flung places but also from within the EU.

[Sour Mash]

Part of it is the fact we speak English. If you are looking for a job and a better life then you will go where you speak the language. Far more Afghans, Somalis, Nigerians etc will speak a little English than will speak German, or Italian or French. The ubiquity of our language is part of the reason for the influx - not just from far flung places but also from within the EU.

Yep. There's a lot of good points in Verbal's post in my opinion, but it's only relevant in a small way in Thi particular topic. There are a wide range of reasons why the UK is seen as the ultimate goal for many migrants.

[View From The Top]

Super Mikey and Bridge Too Far on the Mediterranean Ferry thread on this page alone. Plenty on twitter.

 

What do you think loads of those people we're helping to land in Greece and Italy are going to do?

 

But as you say, no-one is saying we should take them

 

No one on any thread is saying we should take anyone from Calais. Find me one thread that states that those economic migrants in Calais should be granted entry. Just one. Oh wait, you can't.

[Badger]

I don't have a problem with helping genuine asylum seekers. We should get out the EU, get control of our borders so we can help more people like this instead of having mass immigration from Europe.

 

So, a choice of Portuguese (working in the NHS), and other working Europeans who might contribute something , or the uncontrollable rabble seen at Calais trying to enter the UK illegally and will probably contribute the square root of f^ck all, becoming a drain on resources. Not sure many would follow the logic of your choice here.

[Sour Mash]

No one on any thread is saying we should take anyone from Calais. Find me one thread that states that those economic migrants in Calais should be granted entry. Just one. Oh wait, you can't.

 

So tell us what you think should happen to all those people dumped at ports in Greece and Italy? Oh wait, you can't

 

How do you think those people got to Calais?

[Lord Duckhunter]

Not a lot wrong with that quick and dirty summary of the inevitable consequences of a weak government.

 

The debate is when it all started. My own view is that it will take more than a generation to sort out the mess that the Blair/Brown dynasty bequeathed us.

 

Correct .

 

It's supply and demand . If you increase the supply of labour you keep wages down . When the state then subsidies low wages it makes the situation even worse. Add to that the artificial " benchmark" of a minimum wage people can't even live on , and you end up with a low wage economy and increased gap between rich & poor . Lefties created this problem , but seem oblivious to it . I guess they think people in work but still needing welfare is a good thing .

 

The Tories need to grow some balls and sort it out . Put an end to unskilled immigration and put the minimum wage up to a level where people working don't need benefit . Tax credits aren't a handout to the worker , they're a subsidy to the employer. Without low skilled immigrants and tax credits how would Tesco attract people to work for them? By paying them more, that's how.

[Verbal]

Correct .

 

It's supply and demand . If you increase the supply of labour you keep wages down . When the state then subsidies low wages it makes the situation even worse. Add to that the artificial " benchmark" of a minimum wage people can't even live on , and you end up with a low wage economy and increased gap between rich & poor . Lefties created this problem , but seem oblivious to it . I guess they think people in work but still needing welfare is a good thing .

 

The Tories need to grow some balls and sort it out . Put an end to unskilled immigration and put the minimum wage up to a level where people working don't need benefit . Tax credits aren't a handout to the worker , they're a subsidy to the employer. Without low skilled immigrants and tax credits how would Tesco attract people to work for them? By paying them more, that's how.

 

Architect of the Family Income Supplement: Sir Keith Joseph, in the 1970 Heath government following Thatcher's milk snatch.

[aintforever]

So, a choice of Portuguese (working in the NHS), and other working Europeans who might contribute something , or the uncontrollable rabble seen at Calais trying to enter the UK illegally and will probably contribute the square root of f^ck all, becoming a drain on resources. Not sure many would follow the logic of your choice here.

 

Why do you assume the people in Calais will contribute f*ck all and the people from Europe will all be hard workers?

[holepuncture]

Still no mention of anything but trucks. People might think the caravan hijacking thing was just made up hysteria.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11068265/Calais-police-stop-400-migrants-over-weekend-as-numbers-trying-to-reach-UK-hit-3000-per-month.html

 

To clarify, halfway through the article:

 

Hundreds of migrants also sought to take advantage of a huge traffic jam on a motorway into Calais over the weekend to climb onto stationary UK-bound lorries, but also holidaymakers’ vehicles.

Gilles Debove, the Calais area delegate for the Unité SGP Police Force Ouvrière union, said: “They tried all weekend to get to the UK via caravans, motor-homes that were returning home. This is a totally new phenomenon. They will stop at nothing to get across and we cannot cope quite frankly.”

He added: “It can be a very traumatic experience for British holidaymakers finding themselves surrounded by hundreds of migrants.” One family of British holidaymakers this weekend had their bikes stolen from the back of their vehicle in the confusion, he said.

[buctootim]

Why do you assume the people in Calais will contribute f*ck all and the people from Europe will all be hard workers?

 

Because Poland and Portugal have universal education and literacy and are following a legal path to entry to the UK. Afghanistan and Somalia dont. The chances of an illiterate man with no English and preparedness to break the law to get what he wants settling nicely into a job and paying the rent aren't stellar are they?

Edited 25 June, 2015 by buctootim

[Wes Tender]

It seems obvious to me that the vast majority of these migrants attempting to enter into the UK could easily be dealt with if the Government had the will to do so. The key to the situation is to determine whether they are just economic migrants (who we do not have to accept) or refugees, where a moral dimension is added. But even as genuine refugees, technically we do not have to accept most of them, as International Law states that in practice they should claim asylum in the first safe country that they enter. Most EU states are deemed to be safe, so if they turn up in the UK and claim asylum, we have the right to send them back to France typically, or wherever they came from in the EU. That country would also have the right to send them back to wherever they came from beforehand and so on.

 

This article explains it quite well.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/libertycentral/2010/sep/21/claim-asylum-uk-legal-position

 

Were we to enforce rigorously the return of these migrants to France, even if they subsequently claimed asylum in the UK, the French would then be compelled to do likewise or to take effective action to prevent them landing on French soil in the first place. But as it is, they are content to wring their hands and suggest that it is our responsibility and what can they do about it?

 

Personally I do not accept that many of those arriving in France are genuine refugees and it is easy for them to be schooled in what to say to establish credentials as refugees and it is difficult to check out their stories anyway.

 

The only solution to the problem is to leave the EU and set up our own immigration policy based solely on what benefits us in terms of what they can bring to us by way of employent skills or investment, using a points based system similar to that the Aussies have. Other than that, we could be prepared to accept a proportion of proper refugees as part of a moral commitment towards those in genuine need of help. It is bad enough having to allow freedom of movement from the former Iron Curtain countries, without having to put up with this tidal wave of economic migrants from Africa and the Middle East. Our infrastructure cannot handle it, so urgent measures must be taken soon.

[aintforever]

Because Poland and Portugal have universal education and literacy and are following a legal path to entry to the UK. Afghanistan and Somalia dont. The chances of an illiterate man with no English and preparedness to break the law to get what he wants settling nicely into a job and paying the rent aren't stellar are they?

 

But if someone has the ability to work and save enough money to pay smugglers to get them out of some African sh!t hole, has the motivation and ability to travel through war zones, across seas, through Europe and sneak covertly across the English channel - surely they are more likely to want to work and better themselves than someone who just has to jump on a bus from Poland to get their benefit windfall?