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The Official Saints European Tour 2015 / 16 Thread - Died Peacefully 27/08/2015


Marsdinho

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Hej Gulle,

 

By 'what sort of attendance' we normally mean the number of people who attend (spectate) at the games, so we talk about the 'average attendance' and so on, not 'what type of people attend the game'.

 

Møjn

 

Hahaha, how do you know about the term "møjn"? :D

 

Their average attendance in the 2015/16 season so far have been 6.318.

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Hahaha, how do you know about the term "møjn"? :D

 

Their average attendance in the 2015/16 season so far have been 6.318.

 

I have been to Sønderborg many, many times in the 1990s and later. At first I learnt the numbers, then whether they were talking about me and eventually I could begin to understand some of what they were saying. My business partner John knew a few numbers but not all of them so if he wanted to buy 15 beers he would ask (in Danish) for '14 beers... and one more'. Sadly John is no longer with us.

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I have been to Sønderborg many, many times in the 1990s and later. At first I learnt the numbers, then whether they were talking about me and eventually I could begin to understand some of what they were saying. My business partner John knew a few numbers but not all of them so if he wanted to buy 15 beers he would ask (in Danish) for '14 beers... and one more'. Sadly John is no longer with us.

 

Arrrh okay, now I get it then!

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Sky news says we can draw any unseeded team in pot 3 or 4... So MLG may have been right. Kairat almaty may be our opponents.

 

Sent from my HTC Desire 310 using Tapatalk

 

Sky News are fking idiots then. We could never have drawn anyone in pot 4 because that's not how the draw works. Plus MLG never said we'd play Kairat, he ballsed up where Azerbaijan was.

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Has anyone worked out yet what the point is of splitting the teams into arbitrary groups ahead of the draw? I'm assuming its UEFA trying to make it appear more 'exciting' than it actually is but maybe there's a more scientific reason that I'm missing somewhere....

 

A few reasons

 

1) Makes the draw quicker - they assign multiple matches from each pairing of numbers.

2) Allows people to pre-plan some trips - a group of 6 possible opponents is easier to plan than 22 possible opponents.

3) Allows the separation of teams from the same country - the main one.

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Sorry no idea, closed the page now. Just posted as it was what Google recommended and it looked a nightmare (a propeller plane FFS!) But others seem to think it may be easier than i first thought

 

Southampton to Amsterdam is a propeller plane... I've been on 4 of them in the past 2 weeks. :D

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nearly finished reading this. so basically MLG is running the club?

 

No, they're using analytics (as Saints are) to steer their recruitment direction, rather than just making stuff up and claiming it as fact, like MLG does when he really doesn't know.

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So, let's have a look at Saints' pot-seeding possibilities for the Group Stage... Our coefficient is 16.078 and coefficients do not change throughout the competition.

 

The Group stage draws are seeded into 4 pots, one team from each pot to be drawn into every group. There are 12 groups in total, A-L, hence 12 teams in each pot. Those paying attention will have worked out this means 4 teams in each group (so 6 matches, 3 home and 3 away).

 

Pot 1 is the top coefficient teams, down to Pot 4 for the lowest coefficients.

 

At this stage there are 16 new teams entering, 10 Champions League Play-Off Round losers, and the 22 winners of the Europa League Play-Off Rounds, to give 48 teams into the Europa League Group Stage.

 

Teams directly entering into Group Stage:

1 Germany Schalke 04 CC: 111.883

2 Italy Napoli CC: 84.102

3 England Tottenham Hotspur CC: 84.078

4 Spain Villarreal CC: 58.999

5 France Marseille CC: 55.483

6 Ukraine Dnipro Dnipropetrovsk CC: 52.033

7 Portugal Braga CC: 51.776

8 Italy Fiorentina CC: 49.102

9 Belgium Anderlecht CC: 47.440

10 England Liverpool CC: 47.078

11 Turkey Beşiktaş CC: 36.520

12 Russia Lokomotiv Moscow CC: 23.099

13 FC Basel Switzerland 84.875 OR Maccabi Tel-Aviv FC Israel 18.200 (CL POR loser - both above Saints)

14 Lazio Italy OR Germany Bayer Leverkusen (CL POR loser - both above Saints)

15 Manchester United England OR Belgium Club Brugge (CL POR loser - both above Saints)

16 Sporting Lisbon Portugal OR Russia CSKA Moscow (CL POR loser - both above Saints)

17 Valencia Spain OR France Monaco (CL POR loser - both above Saints)

 

As you can see, there are already more than 12 teams with higher coefficients than Saints (above), so we can't be seeded in the top Pot (and 5 of the Pot 2 slots are already taken too).

 

----------------------------------------

 

However the teams below will definitely be ranked below Saints - if there are 12 of them we'll be in at worst in seeding Pot 3, but 24 of them will need to be below Saints to get us seeded into Pot 2: Unfortunately at the moment there are only 6 teams or play-off round pairings definitely worse ranked than Saints:

 

1 Germany Augsburg CC: 15.883

2 Either FC Krasnodar (RUS) 15.099 or HJK Helsinki (FIN) 11.140

3 Greece Asteras Tripoli CC: 13.380

4 Either Altach (AUT) 5.135 or Belenenses (POR) 12.276

5 Netherlands Groningen CC: 8.695

6 Switzerland Sion CC: 8.375

 

The teams in bold below winning their tie will also go below Saints - there are 19 ties here:

 

Steaua Bucureşti (ROU) 40.251 v Rosenborg (NOR) 11.875

Viktoria Plzeň (CZE) 41.825 v Vojvodina (SRB) 6.275

Ajax (NED) 66.195 v Jablonec (CZE) 9.325

Molde (NOR) 10.375 v Standard Liège (BEL) 25.440

Žilina (SVK) 8.750 v Athletic Club (ESP) 56.999

Zorya Luhansk (UKR) 10.533 v Legia Warszawa (POL) 24.800

Milsami Orhei (MDA) 3.750 v Saint-Étienne (FRA) 16.983

Young Boys (SUI) 31.375 v Qarabağ (AZE) 11.500

PAOK (GRE) 40.880 v Brøndby (DEN) 7.460

Girondins de Bordeaux (FRA) 24.483 v Kairat Almaty (KAZ) 2.575

Dinamo Minsk (BLR) 9.650 v FC Salzburg (AUT) 43.135

Slovan Liberec (CZE) 16.325 v Hajduk Split (CRO) 11.200

Qäbälä (AZE) 2.750 v Panathinaikos (GRE) 19.880

Astra Giurgiu (ROU) 9.759 v AZ Alkmaar (NED) 46.695

Lech Poznań (POL) 17.300 v Videoton (HUN) 7.950

Rabotnicki (MKD) 4.675 v Rubin Kazan (RUS) 57.099

Atromitos (GRE) 10.380 v Fenerbahçe (TUR) 30.020

Odds BK (NOR) 2.875 v Borussia Dortmund (GER) 99.883

Sparta Praha (CZE) 30.825 v FC Thun (SUI) 10.375

 

There will also be 10 Champions League Losers dropping in from the CL Play-Off Round - those in bold (potentially 5 more) would be lower ranked than Saints:

 

Astana Kazakhstan 3.825 v APOEL FC Cyp 35.460

KS Skënderbeu Alb 5.575 v Dinamo Zagreb Cro 24.700

Celtic Sco 39.080 v Malmö FF Swe 12.545

FC BATE Borisov Blr 35.150 v FK Partizan Srb 14.775

Rapid Wien Austria 15.635 v Ukraine Shakhtar Donetsk 86.033

 

That could be as many as 30 teams with worse co-efficients than Saints (but it's incredibly unlikely). Pot 3 seems the most likely - 5 CL underdogs losing, and only 1 EL upset needed - we'd need to find another 12 upsets to get us into Pot 2 - which of course would be massively beneficial as then we wouldn't have to finish above TWO teams with better ranking coefficients than us in the Group to make the knockout stages.

 

Something to keep an eye on for if we get past Midtjylland, anyway. :)

Edited by The9
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I'm not quite sure that I get the part with attendances?

 

Hej Gulle,

 

By 'what sort of attendance' we normally mean the number of people who attend (spectate) at the games, so we talk about the 'average attendance' and so on, not 'what type of people attend the game'.

 

Møjn

 

Yeah, cheers Whitey.

 

I was just thinking that if the stadium is regularly only half full they may offer a larger visitor allocation but I guess this will be a fairly attractive fixture for the home fans? And as the capacity is cut to around 9,500 for European games it looks like we'll just get a few hundred tickets.

 

If anyone wants to see their fans reaction http://www.black-wolves.com/ulvegraven/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=96949&sid=966e7ce677d3f51f088e7688d88cb26d&start=75 (you may have to translate the page). Before the draw they were hoping to avoid us and Dortmund (good company!) and after suggesting their best hope is if we get complacent and underestimate them. In recent years they've turned over Man City and also put the Saints out 3 or 4 years back (the Welsh ones).

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How many Saints fans are going without tickets? I might have at least 1 spare for the away end but won't know until I'm out there. Bit of a vague post but just lining up how easy I could shift it/them if that the case.

 

Sorry I didn't get back to the folk who replied/PM'd me about these. I only got hold of the tickets about 15 minutes before kick off, there were a bit of a mix up with the language barrier but two Saints who were destined for the Home stands were handed two tickets for the Away stand. :) What a few days that were. I've returned a somewhat tender chap!

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I was just thinking that if the stadium is regularly only half full they may offer a larger visitor allocation but I guess this will be a fairly attractive fixture for the home fans? And as the capacity is cut to around 9,500 for European games it looks like we'll just get a few hundred tickets.

 

 

In their first leg against Apoel Nicosia there were 8252 attendances, so it will probably be the same amount (Likely to be even more).

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In their first leg against Apoel Nicosia there were 8252 attendances, so it will probably be the same amount (Likely to be even more).

 

 

Are there any nice places to stop on the train route between Herning and Copenhagen, assuming i leave after the match? Herning seems a dull place -and hotel prices are going up.

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Are there any nice places to stop on the train route between Herning and Copenhagen, assuming i leave after the match? Herning seems a dull place -and hotel prices are going up.

 

I would recommend Vejle in Jylland (where Herning also is located), or Odense on Fyn. Both of them is quite nice, and should be on the train route as far as I can see. Odense is the third largest city in Denmark, after Copenhagen and Aarhus.

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In recent years they've turned over Man City and also put the Saints out 3 or 4 years back (the Welsh ones).

Not sure you can really say they turned Man City over. They lost at home 0-1 and won in Manchester 1-0 but went out on penalties. This was in 2008, just before the Sheikh Mansour takeover. Still it was a credible result and they will not be pushovers.

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I would recommend Vejle in Jylland (where Herning also is located), or Odense on Fyn. Both of them is quite nice, and should be on the train route as far as I can see. Odense is the third largest city in Denmark, after Copenhagen and Aarhus.

 

Fantastic, that's really helpful. Will check both places out. Cheers.

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So, let's have a look at Saints' pot-seeding possibilities for the Group Stage... Our coefficient is 16.078 and coefficients do not change throughout the competition.

 

The Group stage draws are seeded into 4 pots, one team from each pot to be drawn into every group. There are 12 groups in total, A-L, hence 12 teams in each pot. Those paying attention will have worked out this means 4 teams in each group (so 6 matches, 3 home and 3 away).

 

Pot 1 is the top coefficient teams, down to Pot 4 for the lowest coefficients.

 

At this stage there are 16 new teams entering, 10 Champions League Play-Off Round losers, and the 22 winners of the Europa League Play-Off Rounds, to give 48 teams into the Europa League Group Stage.

 

Teams directly entering into Group Stage:

1 Germany Schalke 04 CC: 111.883

2 Italy Napoli CC: 84.102

3 England Tottenham Hotspur CC: 84.078

4 Spain Villarreal CC: 58.999

5 France Marseille CC: 55.483

6 Ukraine Dnipro Dnipropetrovsk CC: 52.033

7 Portugal Braga CC: 51.776

8 Italy Fiorentina CC: 49.102

9 Belgium Anderlecht CC: 47.440

10 England Liverpool CC: 47.078

11 Turkey Beşiktaş CC: 36.520

12 Russia Lokomotiv Moscow CC: 23.099

13 FC Basel Switzerland 84.875 OR Maccabi Tel-Aviv FC Israel 18.200 (CL POR loser - both above Saints)

14 Lazio Italy OR Germany Bayer Leverkusen (CL POR loser - both above Saints)

15 Manchester United England OR Belgium Club Brugge (CL POR loser - both above Saints)

16 Sporting Lisbon Portugal OR Russia CSKA Moscow (CL POR loser - both above Saints)

17 Valencia Spain OR France Monaco (CL POR loser - both above Saints)

 

As you can see, there are already more than 12 teams with higher coefficients than Saints (above), so we can't be seeded in the top Pot (and 5 of the Pot 2 slots are already taken too).

 

----------------------------------------

 

However the teams below will definitely be ranked below Saints - if there are 12 of them we'll be in at worst in seeding Pot 3, but 24 of them will need to be below Saints to get us seeded into Pot 2: Unfortunately at the moment there are only 6 teams or play-off round pairings definitely worse ranked than Saints:

 

1 Germany Augsburg CC: 15.883

2 Either FC Krasnodar (RUS) 15.099 or HJK Helsinki (FIN) 11.140

3 Greece Asteras Tripoli CC: 13.380

4 Either Altach (AUT) 5.135 or Belenenses (POR) 12.276

5 Netherlands Groningen CC: 8.695

6 Switzerland Sion CC: 8.375

 

The teams in bold below winning their tie will also go below Saints - there are 19 ties here:

 

Steaua Bucureşti (ROU) 40.251 v Rosenborg (NOR) 11.875

Viktoria Plzeň (CZE) 41.825 v Vojvodina (SRB) 6.275

Ajax (NED) 66.195 v Jablonec (CZE) 9.325

Molde (NOR) 10.375 v Standard Liège (BEL) 25.440

Žilina (SVK) 8.750 v Athletic Club (ESP) 56.999

Zorya Luhansk (UKR) 10.533 v Legia Warszawa (POL) 24.800

Milsami Orhei (MDA) 3.750 v Saint-Étienne (FRA) 16.983

Young Boys (SUI) 31.375 v Qarabağ (AZE) 11.500

PAOK (GRE) 40.880 v Brøndby (DEN) 7.460

Girondins de Bordeaux (FRA) 24.483 v Kairat Almaty (KAZ) 2.575

Dinamo Minsk (BLR) 9.650 v FC Salzburg (AUT) 43.135

Slovan Liberec (CZE) 16.325 v Hajduk Split (CRO) 11.200

Qäbälä (AZE) 2.750 v Panathinaikos (GRE) 19.880

Astra Giurgiu (ROU) 9.759 v AZ Alkmaar (NED) 46.695

Lech Poznań (POL) 17.300 v Videoton (HUN) 7.950

Rabotnicki (MKD) 4.675 v Rubin Kazan (RUS) 57.099

Atromitos (GRE) 10.380 v Fenerbahçe (TUR) 30.020

Odds BK (NOR) 2.875 v Borussia Dortmund (GER) 99.883

Sparta Praha (CZE) 30.825 v FC Thun (SUI) 10.375

 

There will also be 10 Champions League Losers dropping in from the CL Play-Off Round - those in bold (potentially 5 more) would be lower ranked than Saints:

 

Astana Kazakhstan 3.825 v APOEL FC Cyp 35.460

KS Skënderbeu Alb 5.575 v Dinamo Zagreb Cro 24.700

Celtic Sco 39.080 v Malmö FF Swe 12.545

FC BATE Borisov Blr 35.150 v FK Partizan Srb 14.775

Rapid Wien Austria 15.635 v Ukraine Shakhtar Donetsk 86.033

 

That could be as many as 30 teams with worse co-efficients than Saints (but it's incredibly unlikely). Pot 3 seems the most likely - 5 CL underdogs losing, and only 1 EL upset needed - we'd need to find another 12 upsets to get us into Pot 2 - which of course would be massively beneficial as then we wouldn't have to finish above TWO teams with better ranking coefficients than us in the Group to make the knockout stages.

 

Something to keep an eye on for if we get past Midtjylland, anyway. :)

 

Very informative, thanks!

 

To be honest. Most people expect us to progress beyond the group stages as long as we take it seriously. Unless we get a group of death I think its just an adventure to enjoy! I am targeting the quarter finals as a minimum.... but expect us to win and be in the Champions league next year :blush::lol:

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To be honest. Most people expect us to progress beyond the group stages as long as we take it seriously.

There are a lot of seriously good teams in the Europa this season. I think it will be very tough to get through the Group stages, but I know Ronald will make the best effort possible, unlike West Ham. Of course we can do it, but don't underestimate the quality of the teams likely to be involved in the groups, there will be very few minnows left.

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Against the consensus on here, called it early on we'd be seeded :smug:

 

Should we qualify for the group stages, we have a small chance of making it to pot 2; but fully expect us to be in pot 3.

 

I agree that we will be in group 3. I'd then fully expect us to get out of the group if we continue to take it seriously (and I don't know why we wouldn't)

 

If we are in the group of 3rd seeds, Any looking at the teams we could possibly face I think we would take the following points...

 

Against the bottom seeds, win home and away - 6 points

Against the 2nd seeds, win home - 3 points

Thats 9 points before we have the away game from the 2nd seeds and home and away matches against the top seeds.

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Against the consensus on here, called it early on we'd be seeded :smug:

 

Should we qualify for the group stages, we have a small chance of making it to pot 2; but fully expect us to be in pot 3.

I predicted we wouldn't be seeded at all, so would it help if I also plump for pot 3?

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Hello

 

Im a Danish FC Midtjylland fan, and i thought i would try to give you some insights in what to expect of this match/trip.

 

Travel:

If you are able to book a flight directly to Aarhus, that would properly be the prefered. Aarhus as a city is alot more exciting than Herning, and its only 1,5 hours away by train.

The 2nd best option would be to fly to Billund. The city of Billund is immensely boring, however it has Legoland (yay?). It takes ~2 hours by train to Herning.

Lastly you can either fly to Copenhagen. Traveltime by train is around 3-4 hours.

 

The match:

Even though we are the reigning champions and we currently are in 1st place in the Danish league, I expect us to get steamrolled i both matches (atleast 3-0 x2). On our best days we might be able to get a lucky draw in our home game. However eventhough we have played 7 matches so far this season, we are yet to play a good one. Our strikers , attacking midfielders and wings, seem to be way out of sync, so atm we are relying on setpieces to get our wins. As a matter of fact, we haven't played a good really match since mid-may, where we de facto won the championship by beating FC Copenhagen.

Our best player is by a wide margin Pione Sisto. He was injured most of the spring, and he is still not nowhere near the level he was on before the injury.

Unless you do a West Ham, it should be 2 very comfortably wins for your side.

 

Its hard to predict the expected attendance. Our APOEL game would properly have been soldout, if it hadn't been played in the middel of the summerholiday.

This game will surely attract som ppl who wants to see an almigthy PL team, but it will also discourage the ones who expect FCM to be steamrolled.

I would expect some where between 8500-9500 (the total capacity of our arena is ~2000 lower than normal, due to having to put seats on our normal "standing area".

 

As for the atmosphere. I hate to say it but our fanbase among the quiet ones (atleast compared to British and Eastern Europe). Its almost Old Traffod like ;) So you have the pontential to win the "fan war".

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Hello

 

Im a Danish FC Midtjylland fan, and i thought i would try to give you some insights in what to expect of this match/trip.

 

Travel:

If you are able to book a flight directly to Aarhus, that would properly be the prefered. Aarhus as a city is alot more exciting than Herning, and its only 1,5 hours away by train.

The 2nd best option would be to fly to Billund. The city of Billund is immensely boring, however it has Legoland (yay?). It takes ~2 hours by train to Herning.

Lastly you can either fly to Copenhagen. Traveltime by train is around 3-4 hours.

 

The match:

Even though we are the reigning champions and we currently are in 1st place in the Danish league, I expect us to get steamrolled i both matches (atleast 3-0 x2). On our best days we might be able to get a lucky draw in our home game. However eventhough we have played 7 matches so far this season, we are yet to play a good one. Our strikers , attacking midfielders and wings, seem to be way out of sync, so atm we are relying on setpieces to get our wins. As a matter of fact, we haven't played a good really match since mid-may, where we de facto won the championship by beating FC Copenhagen.

Our best player is by a wide margin Pione Sisto. He was injured most of the spring, and he is still not nowhere near the level he was on before the injury.

Unless you do a West Ham, it should be 2 very comfortably wins for your side.

 

Its hard to predict the expected attendance. Our APOEL game would properly have been soldout, if it hadn't been played in the middel of the summerholiday.

This game will surely attract som ppl who wants to see an almigthy PL team, but it will also discourage the ones who expect FCM to be steamrolled.

I would expect some where between 8500-9500 (the total capacity of our arena is ~2000 lower than normal, due to having to put seats on our normal "standing area".

 

As for the atmosphere. I hate to say it but our fanbase among the quiet ones (atleast compared to British and Eastern Europe). Its almost Old Traffod like ;) So you have the pontential to win the "fan war".

Thanks for that! Any idea how many tickets Saints will get? We could have sold our 1600 allocation at Vitesse at least twice. And is it an open sale for home tickets?

 

Sent from my D6503 using Tapatalk

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Against the consensus on here, called it early on we'd be seeded :smug:

 

Should we qualify for the group stages, we have a small chance of making it to pot 2; but fully expect us to be in pot 3.

 

Actually you said we were practically certain to be seeded, which as we saw, was anything but the case.

 

You're probably right about Pot 3 though.

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I dont think you should expect more than around 500. The away area has a capacity of 1050 (standing). When we have to install seats, that number will be reduced alot.

 

Yikes. Could be a lot travelling without tickets again.

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Bit busy online this morning, said less than 45 minutes in the queue, still waiting an hour later.......

 

All sold out by the weekend I reckon.

 

That's because people are daft. Anyone buying now could also log on at any point before Thursday at 8am and buy the exact same tickets for the exact same price with much less of a wait. Everyone's ST seats are reserved til Thursday, there's no rush at all until they go on general.

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That's because people are daft. Anyone buying now could also log on at any point before Thursday at 8am and buy the exact same tickets for the exact same price with much less of a wait. Everyone's ST seats are reserved til Thursday, there's no rush at all until they go on general.

Doesn't apply to those without season tickets. That said, I got online just before 9 and had the tickets by five past.

 

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Doesn't apply to those without season tickets. That said, I got online just before 9 and had the tickets by five past.

Must admit I'd not paid that much attention, but have they put non-ST seats on sale to members today as well? That would explain the queue, I guess...

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I dont think you should expect more than around 500. The away area has a capacity of 1050 (standing). When we have to install seats, that number will be reduced alot.

 

it will be very interesting if we only get 500 tickets, take a fair few off that for officials / player comps as staff at the club always seem to get them, then allow for some tickets possibly being held back for an official travel package if the club decide to run one again - could just leave a couple of hundred for everyone else.

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Actually you said we were practically certain to be seeded, which as we saw, was anything but the case.

 

You're probably right about Pot 3 though.

 

Where did I say we were practically certain? At the time of the Arnhem draw, I said we had a very good chance of being seeded, despite the doom and gloom and then after the first leg of playoff results, said our chances were better than 50/50. Not quite the same, is it? :smug:

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Hello

 

Im a Danish FC Midtjylland fan, and i thought i would try to give you some insights in what to expect of this match/trip.

 

Travel:

If you are able to book a flight directly to Aarhus, that would properly be the prefered. Aarhus as a city is alot more exciting than Herning, and its only 1,5 hours away by train.

The 2nd best option would be to fly to Billund. The city of Billund is immensely boring, however it has Legoland (yay?). It takes ~2 hours by train to Herning.

Lastly you can either fly to Copenhagen. Traveltime by train is around 3-4 hours.

 

The match:

Even though we are the reigning champions and we currently are in 1st place in the Danish league, I expect us to get steamrolled i both matches (atleast 3-0 x2). On our best days we might be able to get a lucky draw in our home game. However eventhough we have played 7 matches so far this season, we are yet to play a good one. Our strikers , attacking midfielders and wings, seem to be way out of sync, so atm we are relying on setpieces to get our wins. As a matter of fact, we haven't played a good really match since mid-may, where we de facto won the championship by beating FC Copenhagen.

Our best player is by a wide margin Pione Sisto. He was injured most of the spring, and he is still not nowhere near the level he was on before the injury.

Unless you do a West Ham, it should be 2 very comfortably wins for your side.

 

Its hard to predict the expected attendance. Our APOEL game would properly have been soldout, if it hadn't been played in the middel of the summerholiday.

This game will surely attract som ppl who wants to see an almigthy PL team, but it will also discourage the ones who expect FCM to be steamrolled.

I would expect some where between 8500-9500 (the total capacity of our arena is ~2000 lower than normal, due to having to put seats on our normal "standing area".

 

As for the atmosphere. I hate to say it but our fanbase among the quiet ones (atleast compared to British and Eastern Europe). Its almost Old Traffod like ;) So you have the pontential to win the "fan war".

 

thanks for the info - let's hope you correct about the score.

 

will you be coming to Southampton? how many do you think will travel?

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