9-3 Posted 19 June, 2015 Share Posted 19 June, 2015 What a massive mistake signing these two. Think they were being paid £40000 a week. Big mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 19 June, 2015 Share Posted 19 June, 2015 Bit late, and what do you mean "were"? Gaston's wages are well known, he was even quoted about them before he signed. Cortese ego projects, glad we've got that level of arrogance out of the process, it just creates the kind of inefficiences other clubs are held back by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 19 June, 2015 Share Posted 19 June, 2015 Gaston has just bought a new car which suggests that he intends to stick around, or at least stay in the UK. I wouldn't be surprised if he has a role next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarniaSaint Posted 19 June, 2015 Share Posted 19 June, 2015 Gaston has just bought a new car which suggests that he intends to stick around, or at least stay in the UK. I wouldn't be surprised if he has a role next season. I would be very surprised if he was still here or a Saints player next season..................and there is no way that Osvaldo will be here.........gone at a large money loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 19 June, 2015 Share Posted 19 June, 2015 I would be very surprised if he was still here or a Saints player next season..................and there is no way that Osvaldo will be here.........gone at a large money loss. I hope you're right on both, they've been expensive disasters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarniaSaint Posted 19 June, 2015 Share Posted 19 June, 2015 I hope you're right on both, they've been expensive disasters. You are right and they were both Cortese vanity signings although Osvaldo had pochettino written all over it............maybe the argie wil buy him for the Yids Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint IQ Posted 20 June, 2015 Share Posted 20 June, 2015 What if Gaston was so happy here he would accept a new 3 year deal on a smaller contract, would you take him or would you rather sell him at a loss of about 8m? Though the percentage of us wanting him for 3 more years combined with a footballer willing to take a pay cut means this has a 0.000000001% chance of happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNSUN Posted 20 June, 2015 Share Posted 20 June, 2015 They are mistakes now, expensive mistakes, but that's not how they were perceived when we signed them. Osvaldo was a striker with a decent goal scoring record at Espanyol and Roma, and was an Italian International, and while he was always hot tempered, the powers that be at Saints (especially old boss Pochettino) must have thought it was worth the risk. Ramirez was a 21-year old with a bright future who had a good stint at Bologna. I can understand why we signed both. We didn't know they'd be failures when we signed them. Sadly Osvaldo's temperament seems to have effectively ruined his career, but I'm sure he's made enough cash that he doesn't care. Ramirez simply didn't blossom, although at 24 he still has time on his side. Perhaps a new change of scenery in another country will help, perhaps it's the English game that doesn't really suit him. Shame, because in his first season he was OK. Big money signings are tricky. Ask Liverpool! Ha! The simple fact is our best signings, Wanyama aside, cost us very little. Even Forster wasn't overpriced, for a good International keeper with years ahead of him. The only question marks in our current side are on the other big money signing of Long, one hopes he will be more hit than miss in the next couple of years. We're a team that improves players, I like reasonable money signings like Soares and Juanmi, knowing that if they are a hit, we can potentially sell for big money, while knowing if they fail, we haven't blown too much on them, like Osvaldo and Ramirez. That said, I do get excited when we spend big bucks on players. I did with both Osvaldo and Ramirez, and, oddly, Delap! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 20 June, 2015 Share Posted 20 June, 2015 What if Gaston was so happy here he would accept a new 3 year deal on a smaller contract, would you take him or would you rather sell him at a loss of about 8m? Though the percentage of us wanting him for 3 more years combined with a footballer willing to take a pay cut means this has a 0.000000001% chance of happening. The frustrating thing is that the talent is there. A year ago I was all for giving him a chance. He had that at Hull and didn't take it. His time's up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Munster Posted 20 June, 2015 Share Posted 20 June, 2015 Gaston has just bought a new car which suggests that he intends to stick around, or at least stay in the UK. I wouldn't be surprised if he has a role next season. As a chauffeur? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 20 June, 2015 Share Posted 20 June, 2015 As a chauffeur? Ha! That's about his limit to be fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Katalinic's 'tache Posted 20 June, 2015 Share Posted 20 June, 2015 As a chauffeur? Er, no, he's always been a passenger... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Saint Posted 20 June, 2015 Share Posted 20 June, 2015 The positive with Osvaldo was the boys and girls in the Black Box department had concerns about him, he was a signing against the grain, and as much was said at the time he was revealed. But Pochettino stuck his neck out and said he could tame him as he had before. So they knew he was an issue, Gaston like Mayuka were ones who sadly slipped through the net. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Balls Posted 20 June, 2015 Share Posted 20 June, 2015 Really disappointed with the way Gaston has turned out. The talent is there, that's obvious. He just doesn't suit the English game at all. Too weak, slow and disappears. If he could have pushed on from that Villa 4-1 game he would be a world beater. He absolutely dictated that game. Might be worth a go in the early rounds of the Europa League if we can't offload him again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 20 June, 2015 Share Posted 20 June, 2015 It is interesting to see that our two latest signings this week have been distinctly less expensive ones than either of these foreign players were - by some margin actually. Is this now club policy? Can it be that the club has concluded that the obvious failure of the Osveldo and Ramirez transfers show that there is little or no 'value for money' in signing players in the £10m to £15m bracket because they are ultimately no more likely to prove successful here in the PL than those who cost less than £5m? My little theory may be blown out of the water next week of course if the club splash out on another 'big money' transfer such as Charlie Austin for example. Time will tell I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonjoe Posted 20 June, 2015 Share Posted 20 June, 2015 I think the way in which the Gaston loan to Hull was reported by Saints ("Gaston will return to Southampton at the end of the loan deal") and our high number of competitive league matches in the forthcoming season will mean that there remains a place in the squad for Gaston. It will be up to him and his representatives to decide whether he will be happy with the role offered. osvaldo is surely a case of the club doing everything they can to get him off the books and him not being welcome through the doors. I would be surprised if he was ever asked to attend training etc ever again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonjoe Posted 20 June, 2015 Share Posted 20 June, 2015 It is interesting to see that our two latest signings this week have been distinctly less expensive ones than either of these foreign players were - by some margin actually. Is this now club policy? Can it be that the club has concluded that the obvious failure of the Osveldo and Ramirez transfers show that there is little or no 'value for money' in signing players in the £10m to £15m bracket because they are ultimately no more likely to prove successful here in the PL than those who cost less than £5m? My little theory may be blown out of the water next week of course if the club splash out on another 'big money' transfer such as Charlie Austin for example. Time will tell I suppose. a bit of that maybe, but perhaps just as importantly we don't know have Cortese overspending and we have Liebherr saying she wants the finances to stack up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadhall Saint Posted 20 June, 2015 Share Posted 20 June, 2015 What a massive mistake signing these two. Think they were being paid £40000 a week. Big mistake. No **** Sherlock! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vershinin Posted 20 June, 2015 Share Posted 20 June, 2015 I wonder how close any of Osvaldo's actions have been to allow us to terminate the contract- the Jose incident in particular. It seems crazy that a player can behave like such a **** for so long, show such little sign of ever setting foot near Southampton again, let alone play and still be on the payroll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 20 June, 2015 Share Posted 20 June, 2015 I wonder how close any of Osvaldo's actions have been to allow us to terminate the contract- the Jose incident in particular. It seems crazy that a player can behave like such a **** for so long, show such little sign of ever setting foot near Southampton again, let alone play and still be on the payroll. I don't doubt that we could have terminated his contract and thus wiped out any chance of ever recovering a penny of the sum we paid for him. When you've paid 12+ million or whatever it was for a player you tend to think twice about kicking his arse out of the door for free!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikee Posted 20 June, 2015 Share Posted 20 June, 2015 I don't doubt that we could have terminated his contract and thus wiped out any chance of ever recovering a penny of the sum we paid for him. When you've paid 12+ million or whatever it was for a player you tend to think twice about kicking his arse out of the door for free!! this is the problem with the amount of money in the game now - it overrides the principles of a football club in most cases. It is a shame we let money cover up what would in any other walk of life be considered gross misconduct and an instant dismissal. Is it any wonder that players are in the main a bunch of ***** and see themselves above the law. I was a bit shocked when we let Gaston go on loan last season as we didn't have anyone like him in our squad - and still don't have a no10 type of player - but he didn't seem to do anything at Hull or even force himself into a struggling team so unlikely to come back to us and be a world beater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eelpie Posted 20 June, 2015 Share Posted 20 June, 2015 We're a team that improves players Such a pleasing contrast with the bad old days when we were relegated and dropping down the leagues. Successive managers just couldn't get the best out of players (except Walcott, Bale and one or two others) then. Back to the thread, buying the best is always going to be a risk. Having to bear the costs of Osvaldo situations is only possible if we continue to do good business selling and replacing. Luckily we have a financial cushion at present, and canny operators in Koeman and Les. Long may it continue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eelpie Posted 20 June, 2015 Share Posted 20 June, 2015 So who is footing the bill for Gaston's wages now? Do Hull pay everything while he is on loan with them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 20 June, 2015 Share Posted 20 June, 2015 So who is footing the bill for Gaston's wages now? Do Hull pay everything while he is on loan with them? We are no doubt, he's no longer on loan at Hull, loans finish with the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doggface Posted 20 June, 2015 Share Posted 20 June, 2015 From his comments pre and early season, it seemed to me that Ron was planning and happy to have gaston in the sqaud. I think it was a last minute board decision to get his wages off the books when a healthy offer from hull arrived. Again he had a bad time in the main at hull & I don't think he wanted to go there really and tbh who could blame him. I expect that if we get an offer for a perm transfer he will leave on the cheap. I do think however that there is a chance he will stay this season. I still believe he has the ability to pick that pass even though he is a long way from earning a start. would be a decent option off the bench when teams sit back against us at St Mary's even if an expensive one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lallana's Left Peg Posted 20 June, 2015 Share Posted 20 June, 2015 Ramirez started to make more of an impact in games last season before his injury at Sunderland. If he wasn't earning so much, it would be great to still have him with us. He is our only proper Number 10 and our most creative player. That said, he (and his agent) won't be happy not being a starter but unless we subsidise his wages his he really going to move? Last year of contract next season and then he can get a good wage as a free transfer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd Posted 20 June, 2015 Share Posted 20 June, 2015 The frustrating thing is that the talent is there. A year ago I was all for giving him a chance. He had that at Hull and didn't take it. His time's up. Spot on. He did nothing at Hull to suggest that he wanted to make a go of things there or at any other potential club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 20 June, 2015 Share Posted 20 June, 2015 Spot on. He did nothing at Hull to suggest that he wanted to make a go of things there or at any other potential club. In fact he went to Hull for the money, he was all set to go to Seville but when Hull came in for him he dropped them without a word and signed at Hull. Seville were mightily parsed off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toomer Posted 20 June, 2015 Share Posted 20 June, 2015 These two are part of the reason Cortese was told resign or be sacked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Munster Posted 20 June, 2015 Share Posted 20 June, 2015 These two are part of the reason Cortese was told resign or be sacked. ITK or speculation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eelpie Posted 20 June, 2015 Share Posted 20 June, 2015 So it seems we are stuck with Ramirez, unless someone offers us 10p for him and is willing to pay his wages. He has to put in the work rate to impress Koeman, and bearing in mind what Soton Joe said about us needing more players for Europen commitments, he is going to have to up his game if he wants to save his career. Saints European venture just could be the challenge he needs to pull himself out of the doldrums. It's not a question of giving him another chance. It is for Gaston to prove himself, for his own good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_roffa Posted 20 June, 2015 Share Posted 20 June, 2015 May be Bologna wants him back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 20 June, 2015 Share Posted 20 June, 2015 These two are part of the reason Cortese was told resign or be sacked. I understood it was the Staplewood £24m overspend. I suppose if you add the fees, agents fees and wages of these 2 you've got about 50 million reasons why his employer may have become a tiny bit unhappy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 20 June, 2015 Share Posted 20 June, 2015 I understood it was the Staplewood £24m overspend. I suppose if you add the fees, agents fees and wages of these 2 you've got about 50 million reasons why his employer may have become a tiny bit unhappy. It was a combination of those things plus his failure to actually make any money, (see our corporate sales) and his increasing strained relationship with Kat. Towards the end he wouldn't even giving anyone proper access to the books, just reporting a top line figure back in, presumably trying to cover up his multitude of financial errors. Kat wanted greater access to the finances, he said no, so she told him to resign with a pay off or be fired. Yes he played a part in our rise back up the league and did a good job for a while. arguably in the end our progress was inspite of him not because of him like many believed on here. The proof is in the pudding, rather than the club falling to pieces like Cortese pals in the media wanted we've gone completely the other way. I was always very consistent in my view and took a lot of grief of here because of it, but only an idiot would deny St Mary's is a much better place now he's not there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 20 June, 2015 Share Posted 20 June, 2015 It was a combination of those things plus his failure to actually make any money, (see our corporate sales) and his increasing strained relationship with Kat. Towards the end he wouldn't even giving anyone proper access to the books, just reporting a top line figure back in, presumably trying to cover up his multitude of financial errors. Kat wanted greater access to the finances, he said no, so she told him to resign with a pay off or be fired. Yes he played a part in our rise back up the league and did a good job for a while. arguably in the end our progress was inspite of him not because of him like many believed on here. The proof is in the pudding, rather than the club falling to pieces like Cortese pals in the media wanted we've gone completely the other way. I was always very consistent in my view and took a lot of grief of here because of it, but only an idiot would deny St Mary's is a much better place now he's not there. Good summary Del. I'd heard much the same but wasn't aware that he was given an ultimatum, just that he had to go. No loss whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking Saint Posted 20 June, 2015 Share Posted 20 June, 2015 It is interesting to see that our two latest signings this week have been distinctly less expensive ones than either of these foreign players were - by some margin actually. Is this now club policy? Can it be that the club has concluded that the obvious failure of the Osveldo and Ramirez transfers show that there is little or no 'value for money' in signing players in the £10m to £15m bracket because they are ultimately no more likely to prove successful here in the PL than those who cost less than £5m? My little theory may be blown out of the water next week of course if the club splash out on another 'big money' transfer such as Charlie Austin for example. Time will tell I suppose. I think Austin would be far less of a gamble as he's already proved he can deliver the goods at Premiership level.....would be pleased go get him......I think most of us were a bit clueless as to who Ramirez and Osvaldo were, I know I was!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint97 Posted 20 June, 2015 Share Posted 20 June, 2015 What a massive mistake signing these two. Think they were being paid £40000 a week. Big mistake. £40,000? Think you'll find it's nearer to £60,000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cellone Posted 20 June, 2015 Share Posted 20 June, 2015 What a massive mistake signing these two. Think they were being paid £40000 a week. Big mistake. First time I have seen this observation posted on here. Really made me think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 21 June, 2015 Share Posted 21 June, 2015 Wouldn't mind Gaston just for Europa and cup games. Could be suited. A good month or two and his value soars. He has something, he's not even lightweight, not sure why he's struggled after a really good first few months. His contract expires on 30th June 2016, his value is dropping by the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cellone Posted 21 June, 2015 Share Posted 21 June, 2015 His contract expires on 30th June 2016, his value is dropping by the day. So it wouldn't improve if he played well and got noticed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 21 June, 2015 Share Posted 21 June, 2015 So it wouldn't improve if he played well and got noticed. Wouldn't have thought so, not with his contract running down to 0. Added to the fact that European clubs can sign him on a free pre-contract in January. His value will be as low as ever, even if he plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 21 June, 2015 Share Posted 21 June, 2015 So it wouldn't improve if he played well and got noticed. Not unless we gave him a new contract. If we play him in Europa League and League cup games this coming season as adriansfc is suggesting, when January comes around he will be free to discuss joining foreign clubs on a Bosman in the summer of 2016. His transfer value would be small given the status of only having 6 months left on his contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daft Kerplunk Posted 21 June, 2015 Share Posted 21 June, 2015 At the time they showed we were a club with ambition but both reek of being purchased outside the black box method, which appears to be a little less maverick in its player choices Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano6 Posted 23 June, 2015 Share Posted 23 June, 2015 £40,000? Think you'll find it's nearer to £60,000. £60,000? More like £94,000! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSAINT Posted 24 June, 2015 Share Posted 24 June, 2015 Connor Armstrong @ConnorArmstrong Dani Osvaldo will be returning to #SaintsFC. Boca Juniors pursuing deal for Tevez, and personal problems in Argentina for Osvaldo also. Connor Armstrong @ConnorArmstrong Don't expect to see Osvaldo in pre-season training on Monday, though. Not welcome at Staplewood - a loan move to Lazio beckoning. #SaintsFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giordano Posted 24 June, 2015 Share Posted 24 June, 2015 Its in the corriere dello Sport...He was offered a pay cut at Boca but his agent wants him in Italy with either Lazio or Fiorentina. http://www.corrieredellosport.it/news/calcio/calcio-mercato/2015/06/24-1922270/osvaldo_offerto_alla_lazio_fiorentina_in_seconda_fila/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giordano Posted 24 June, 2015 Share Posted 24 June, 2015 The same paper also mentions we are keen on Italian under 21 midfielder Benassi- who might be lining up aganst JWP tonight...I watched him playing against portugal and thought he did well. Unlikely but just adding it in there for you... http://www.corrieredellosport.it/news/calcio/calcio-mercato/2015/06/24-1926571/torino_che_rebus_benassi_southampton_sullo_sfondo/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 24 June, 2015 Share Posted 24 June, 2015 Can't we just sell him rather than all these loans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSAINT Posted 24 June, 2015 Share Posted 24 June, 2015 Can't we just sell him rather than all these loans? Would be ideal, but to be honest - if we can get Lazio (or whoever) to cover his wages, it probably saves us around £3m a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lallana's Left Peg Posted 24 June, 2015 Share Posted 24 June, 2015 Managing to shift Osvaldo would be a big win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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