Hodgey Posted 19 June, 2015 Share Posted 19 June, 2015 A move to Liverpool is definitely a good career move in terms of opportunity to win things / compete in Chaps League - we have won nothing of note in 40 years or appeared in the Champs league and being honest there is nothing to really suggests that we are highly likely win something or appear in the champs league in the next 10 years - ie the rest of his playing career. It's not a sideways move - that is heart ruling head. I have a differing point though - which also applies to Schneiderlin - are these players genuinely good enough to hold down 1st team places at trophy winning/champs league clubs ?. According to Hodgson Clyne ranks a distinct 2nd to Jones and Henderson out of position, I'm not even sure Jones is 1st choice for Utd - and lets face it England are hardly an example of top of the tree. Maybe the question should be where can I go to maximise winning opportunities and 1st team football ? - in which case a move is not quite so clear cut (look at Shaw / Bertrand). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graffito Posted 19 June, 2015 Share Posted 19 June, 2015 If Clyne had the idea of running his contrtact down and leaaving for nothing (as he did at Palace when we got him) he may have been out-thought by Koeman because he could now spend the year on our bench with Cedric in his place, he would be out of sight and out of mind and lose his England place and his appeal to top clubs. he had long enough to sign the contract, this is one way to cope with 'player power'. Reckon we've made a good move Except that we'd be paying an excellent full back to sit on a bench for a year and no sale value at the end of it. We've signed his replacement but if he stays because nobody will pay our valuation its not the end of the world. Clyne may then reconsider our contract offer but even if he doesn't we'd play him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowgli Posted 19 June, 2015 Share Posted 19 June, 2015 Except that we'd be paying an excellent full back to sit on a bench for a year and no sale value at the end of it. We've signed his replacement but if he stays because nobody will pay our valuation its not the end of the world. Clyne may then reconsider our contract offer but even if he doesn't we'd play him. Agreed but Cedric will be genuine competition as a starter. I suspect that like me, Dellman is hoping we've bought a Clyne 'upgrade' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 19 June, 2015 Share Posted 19 June, 2015 (edited) A move to Liverpool is definitely a good career move in terms of opportunity to win things / compete in Chaps League - we have won nothing of note in 40 years or appeared in the Champs league and being honest there is nothing to really suggests that we are highly likely win something or appear in the champs league in the next 10 years - ie the rest of his playing career. It's not a sideways move - that is heart ruling head. I have a differing point though - which also applies to Schneiderlin - are these players genuinely good enough to hold down 1st team places at trophy winning/champs league clubs ?. According to Hodgson Clyne ranks a distinct 2nd to Jones and Henderson out of position, I'm not even sure Jones is 1st choice for Utd - and lets face it England are hardly an example of top of the tree. Maybe the question should be where can I go to maximise winning opportunities and 1st team football ? - in which case a move is not quite so clear cut (look at Shaw / Bertrand). The scousers have a better chance to win trophies/compete in the CL; but thats not saying much, if we're the baseline. They are stuck in a competitive no-man's land of 5th-7th, teasing and toying with the top four but ultimately falling short. Of course, Clyne is good enough to nail down first team football at Liverpool as is Schneiderlin wherever he goes. Shaw is a bad example - he's still a youngster but will almost certainly flourish once settled. As is Bertrand - can't infer much from not making it at Chelsea. Quality-wise, they are in a different league to Liverpool and even other four sides. Edited 19 June, 2015 by shurlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 19 June, 2015 Share Posted 19 June, 2015 According to the "this is Anfield" blog Saints are awaiting an official letter from Clyne saying that he wants to leave ... Ah, the old "not putting in a transfer request to keep loyalty bonuses" trick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 19 June, 2015 Share Posted 19 June, 2015 Except that we'd be paying an excellent full back to sit on a bench for a year and no sale value at the end of it. We've signed his replacement but if he stays because nobody will pay our valuation its not the end of the world. Clyne may then reconsider our contract offer but even if he doesn't we'd play him. If he was running his contract down we could sell him in January, when we'd know if we needed players for EL knockout rounds, and the loss of value from him having 6 months left would be offset by the inflated January market. The risk being, teams could decide to sit it out and get him for nothing so there would be no takers - you'd expect he'd be Europa League cup-tied by then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 19 June, 2015 Share Posted 19 June, 2015 If he was running his contract down we could sell him in January, when we'd know if we needed players for EL knockout rounds, and the loss of value from him having 6 months left would be offset by the inflated January market. The risk being, teams could decide to sit it out and get him for nothing so there would be no takers - you'd expect he'd be Europa League cup-tied by then. Aren't players free to talk to clubs when they are down to their last 6 months? Clyne could hang on until Jan and then knowing he was going on a free, work on getting himself a massive deal elsewhere. He could simply refuse to be sold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restark19 Posted 19 June, 2015 Share Posted 19 June, 2015 Aren't players free to talk to clubs when they are down to their last 6 months? Clyne could hang on until Jan and then knowing he was going on a free, work on getting himself a massive deal elsewhere. He could simply refuse to be sold. AFAIK in January they can only agree a deal with a club outside of England. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 19 June, 2015 Share Posted 19 June, 2015 Aren't players free to talk to clubs when they are down to their last 6 months? Clyne could hang on until Jan and then knowing he was going on a free, work on getting himself a massive deal elsewhere. He could simply refuse to be sold. Yup, non-English sides. None of which he's shown any sign of wanting to play for. Tricky one, that way he ends up training with the kids or the club sells him to the place he's planning on going anyway in January with a financial agreement to ensure he isn't out of pocket compared to the out of contract, and actually leaves, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 19 June, 2015 Share Posted 19 June, 2015 Aren't players free to talk to clubs when they are down to their last 6 months? Clyne could hang on until Jan and then knowing he was going on a free, work on getting himself a massive deal elsewhere. He could simply refuse to be sold. AFAIK in January they can only agree a deal with a club outside of England. Yep, its only to foreign clubs in January. He'd have to wait until closer to the end of his contract to speak to English clubs, but agents probably do so regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 19 June, 2015 Share Posted 19 June, 2015 Ah, the old "not putting in a transfer request to keep loyalty bonuses" trick. yep and I can't see Clyne putting in a transfer request either. He doesn't need to. With only a year left he can sit tight and either wait for Saints to crack and accept an offer from Liverpool or stay and collect a bumper new pay check in 12 months time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 19 June, 2015 Share Posted 19 June, 2015 (edited) yep and I can't see Clyne putting in a transfer request either. He doesn't need to. With only a year left he can sit tight and either wait for Saints to crack and accept an offer from Liverpool or stay and collect a bumper new pay check in 12 months time. Liverpool cant afford to wait until he becomes a free agent though - because if they do they will lose out to Arsenal or Man U. They will come back with a higher offer imo. Whether Clyne agrees to go is another matter... Edited 19 June, 2015 by buctootim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torres Posted 19 June, 2015 Share Posted 19 June, 2015 If Saints were to really take a hard line with Clyne if he refused to move or to sign a new contract with the aim of letting in run down and move for free next summer we could simply refuse to play him. With Euro2016 next summer and him currently being a shoe-in for that squad he won't want to sit on the sidelines for the whole season and jeopardise his place in that squad and the chance of playing at a major championships. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vince Posted 19 June, 2015 Share Posted 19 June, 2015 Yup, non-English sides. None of which he's shown any sign of wanting to play for. Tricky one, that way he ends up training with the kids or the club sells him to the place he's planning on going anyway in January with a financial agreement to ensure he isn't out of pocket compared to the out of contract, and actually leaves, I guess. He'll need to be playing to get into the squad for the Euros next summer, so sitting it out wouldn't be in his interests in that respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 19 June, 2015 Share Posted 19 June, 2015 Liverpool cant afford to wait until he becomes a free agent though - because if they do they will lose out to Arsenal or Man U. They will come back with a higher offer imo. Whether Clyne accepts it and agrees to go is another matter... interesting point. However, are the other two clubs actually interested? Also, Liverpool seem to have been the kings at securing out of contract players this summer. So perhaps having spunked god knows how much on transfer fees last summer and not done terribly well out of it, they might be using funds differently from now on - i.e. spending their money on huge wages - which enables them to compete with the big four for players like Clyne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 19 June, 2015 Share Posted 19 June, 2015 If Saints were to really take a hard line with Clyne if he refused to move or to sign a new contract with the aim of letting in run down and move for free next summer we could simply refuse to play him. With Euro2016 next summer and him currently being a shoe-in for that squad he won't want to sit on the sidelines for the whole season and jeopardise his place in that squad and the chance of playing at a major championships. bloody hard line that. Imagine the stink Clyne and his agent would create if we did that. He would be a nightmare around the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 19 June, 2015 Share Posted 19 June, 2015 interesting point. However, are the other two clubs actually interested? Also, Liverpool seem to have been the kings at securing out of contract players this summer. So perhaps having spunked god knows how much on transfer fees last summer and not done terribly well out of it, they might be using funds differently from now on - i.e. spending their money on huge wages - which enables them to compete with the big four for players like Clyne. Obviously its all speculation but Im sure at least one of the top four would be interested in an international class English player on a free. Clyne will get a big boost in his wages when he leaves Saints whichever of the top teams he goes to so I doubt money will be the only consideration. CL and playing regularly for England are probably important too - so I think Liverpool would end up as the best of the also rans, as so often recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 19 June, 2015 Share Posted 19 June, 2015 yep and I can't see Clyne putting in a transfer request either. He doesn't need to. With only a year left he can sit tight and either wait for Saints to crack and accept an offer from Liverpool or stay and collect a bumper new pay check in 12 months time. But as was pointed out in one newspaper with regard to the Sterling situation, by not signing an improved offer now the player is also missing out on several months of higher earnings. These may be recouped later but the player might get injured in the time that he's waiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dellman Posted 19 June, 2015 Share Posted 19 June, 2015 If he won't sign a new contract then we have to buy a cover for when he leaves. We've done that. Clyne will now find he is second choice because our future is with the new guy and the sooner he gets in the better. As with not missing Shaw becaues of Bertrand so we will not miss Clyne if Cedric is as good as we hope. Clyne and his agent can make a fuss if they like but they will have brought it upon themselves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torres Posted 19 June, 2015 Share Posted 19 June, 2015 bloody hard line that. Imagine the stink Clyne and his agent would create if we did that. He would be a nightmare around the club. it's a credible threat though, and that's all it needs to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 19 June, 2015 Share Posted 19 June, 2015 (edited) If Saints were to really take a hard line with Clyne if he refused to move or to sign a new contract with the aim of letting in run down and move for free next summer we could simply refuse to play him. With Euro2016 next summer and him currently being a shoe-in for that squad he won't want to sit on the sidelines for the whole season and jeopardise his place in that squad and the chance of playing at a major championships. And the last PL club to do that was???????????? Our asking prices are too high, we'll no doubt soften a bit as the summer wears on. In the end we'll probably get 13 and a half for Clyne and about 22 for Morgan. Edited 19 June, 2015 by Window Cleaner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graffito Posted 19 June, 2015 Share Posted 19 June, 2015 The stand off is down to Man Utd, or the possibilty of A N Other making a bid. With a replacement bagged, Saints have bought a bit of time and applied a bit more pressure than if they'd been reactive. Saints are playing it well in the circumstances. Never again the nonsense of last close season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking Warrior Posted 19 June, 2015 Share Posted 19 June, 2015 well theres one player that doesn't want to go to the Scousers. Clynie should take note Former Lille centre-back Simon Kjaer has revealed he opted for a move to Fenerbahce over Liverpool because he wants to win trophies. The Denmark international snubbed reported interest from Brendan Rodgers’ side in favour of a move to Turkey, where he signed a four-year deal on Wednesday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 19 June, 2015 Share Posted 19 June, 2015 well theres one player that doesn't want to go to the Scousers. Clynie should take note Former Lille centre-back Simon Kjaer has revealed he opted for a move to Fenerbahce over Liverpool because he wants to win trophies. The Denmark international snubbed reported interest from Brendan Rodgers’ side in favour of a move to Turkey, where he signed a four-year deal on Wednesday. Turkish domestic trophies one assumes, I mean why bother finishing 126th in the London Marathon when you can win the Little Sitting on the Wold 5km? Kjaer is there for the money and the money alone, he'll probably be whining to get out of the dump by October. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lallana's Left Peg Posted 19 June, 2015 Share Posted 19 June, 2015 Apparently Kjaer hasn't said those comments, but I like the fact that Liverpool are so rubbish everyone would believe he did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 19 June, 2015 Share Posted 19 June, 2015 he'll probably be whining to get out of the dump by October. Id far rather spend a couple of years in Istanbul than Liverpool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 19 June, 2015 Share Posted 19 June, 2015 Apparently Kjaer hasn't said those comments' date=' but I like the fact that Liverpool are so rubbish everyone would believe he did.[/quote'] Or perhaps he'd rather live in Turkey than Liverpool? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 19 June, 2015 Share Posted 19 June, 2015 Id far rather spend a couple of years in Istanbul than Liverpool !Snap! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St.JonB Posted 19 June, 2015 Share Posted 19 June, 2015 Id far rather spend a couple of years in Istanbul than Liverpool I would rather spend a couple of years in Damascus then Liverpool.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd Posted 19 June, 2015 Share Posted 19 June, 2015 A Liverpool supporting friend claims that we're looking at taking Lambert back as part of the Clyne deal. Has anybody else heard this or is it just a load of speculative bull****? Personally I wouldn't mind him coming back as I think he could still do a job for us, particularly as we're going to need some depth to the squad with the additional European fixtures next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lallana's Left Peg Posted 19 June, 2015 Share Posted 19 June, 2015 A Liverpool supporting friend claims that we're looking at taking Lambert back as part of the Clyne deal. Has anybody else heard this or is it just a load of speculative bull****? Personally I wouldn't mind him coming back as I think he could still do a job for us, particularly as we're going to need some depth to the squad with the additional European fixtures next season. Got to be a load of crap. Does not make sense for loads of reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beavis17 Posted 19 June, 2015 Share Posted 19 June, 2015 Nathaniel Clyne @Nathaniel_Clyne 1m1 minute ago Everyone vote for my England teammate & top man @jhenderson to be on the cover of #FIFA16 http://fifa16cover.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan The Flames Posted 19 June, 2015 Share Posted 19 June, 2015 it's a credible threat though, and that's all it needs to be. It's not though; you can't banish a player to train indefinitely with the kids, there is contractual issues over that, that was one of the reasons why Cortese and Puncheon kissed and made up. You could of course just not pick him for the first team, but then you have a disgruntled player training with the first team being a distruptive influence. So you can't have that either. So there is no threat there, we are better of getting as much money as possible for him now. It's a long transfer window, if I were dealing with it I would wait as long as it takes to get the figure I was happy with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 19 June, 2015 Share Posted 19 June, 2015 it's a credible threat though, and that's all it needs to be. Except, of course, it isn't and we won't do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kermitsaint Posted 20 June, 2015 Share Posted 20 June, 2015 If Liverpool finish eighth this season Rodgers will be sacked and deemed a complete failure. If Saints finish eighth this season Koeman will cement himself as one of our most popular and successful managers of all time. But yeah, sideways move. I don't understand how anyone can claim its a sideways move . Saints tinted glasses are in overload Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 20 June, 2015 Share Posted 20 June, 2015 I don't understand how anyone can claim its a sideways move . Saints tinted glasses are in overload Yep. A move to Liverpool from us is an upgrade. Bigger ambition, club, stadium, wages, prospects etc. Sad but true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torres Posted 20 June, 2015 Share Posted 20 June, 2015 It's not though; you can't banish a player to train indefinitely with the kids, there is contractual issues over that, that was one of the reasons why Cortese and Puncheon kissed and made up. You could of course just not pick him for the first team, but then you have a disgruntled player training with the first team being a distruptive influence. So you can't have that either. So there is no threat there, we are better of getting as much money as possible for him now. It's a long transfer window, if I were dealing with it I would wait as long as it takes to get the figure I was happy with. Who said anything about banishing him to train with the kids? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torres Posted 20 June, 2015 Share Posted 20 June, 2015 Except, of course, it isn't and we won't do that. What, pick the Portuguese international full back we've just signed instead of an uncommitted Clyne? No, we definitely wouldn't do that If Clyne made it clear that his intention was to run down his contract and leave for free in the summer I'd be very surprised if he made many appearances at all next season. Clyne and his agent will know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 20 June, 2015 Share Posted 20 June, 2015 There are a lot,of games potentially next season. We are going to need both players won't we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 20 June, 2015 Share Posted 20 June, 2015 What, pick the Portuguese international full back we've just signed instead of an uncommitted Clyne? No, we definitely wouldn't do that If Clyne made it clear that his intention was to run down his contract and leave for free in the summer I'd be very surprised if he made many appearances at all next season. Clyne and his agent will know that. We are not going to freeze Clyne out of the first team/make him train with the kids etc. We won't threaten to do it and we won't do it. We will not do it. Seriously, get used to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DT Posted 20 June, 2015 Share Posted 20 June, 2015 Yep. A move to Liverpool from us is an upgrade. Bigger ambition, club, stadium, wages, prospects etc. Sad but true. Wages being the key one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 20 June, 2015 Share Posted 20 June, 2015 (edited) when was the last time a top flight team let a one of their top players 'rot' in their reserves? it never ever happens. Edited 20 June, 2015 by Batman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dellman Posted 20 June, 2015 Share Posted 20 June, 2015 Didn't something like this happen to Wayne Bridge, he didn't play much for years but made a fortune on the bench. Wasted career but fat bank balance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pangy Posted 20 June, 2015 Share Posted 20 June, 2015 when was the last time a top flight player let a one of their top players 'rot' in their reserves? it never ever happens. AVB let Adebayor rot in the reserves,until Sherwood came in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 20 June, 2015 Share Posted 20 June, 2015 AVB let Adebayor rot in the reserves,until Sherwood came in never lasted long really though. a few months? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 20 June, 2015 Share Posted 20 June, 2015 when was the last time a top flight player let a one of their top players 'rot' in their reserves? it never ever happens. It's something that exists almost entirely in the minds of people on football forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Katalinic's 'tache Posted 20 June, 2015 Share Posted 20 June, 2015 Liverpool are a much bigger and more prestigious club. However, whether they have a better team right now is debatable. They have got some good players, like Coutinho, but they seem to play more like a collection of talented individuals than a team. They've lost their binding force and perennial 'get out of jail free' card in Gerrard and, as the squads are at the moment, I'd feel optimistic if I was Ronald Koeman, that Saints could finish higher than them next season, if we add some good additions to the squad, get Jay Rod fit and firing and we replace those that do leave with replacements of similar quality (easier said than done). I guess the decision for Clyne is balancing the potential to go for trophies more regularly, a bigger pay packet & being at a club with more world wide appeal against playing every week (he wouldn't be the first to fall flat on his face there & be sold on as a failure a season or two later) and the prospect of bettering them in the short term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 20 June, 2015 Share Posted 20 June, 2015 Liverpool are a much bigger and more prestigious club. However' date=' [b']whether they have a better team right now is debatable[/b]. They have got some good players, like Coutinho, but they seem to play more like a collection of talented individuals than a team. They've lost their binding force and perennial 'get out of jail free' card in Gerrard and, as the squads are at the moment, I'd feel optimistic if I was Ronald Koeman, that Saints could finish higher than them next season, if we add some good additions to the squad, get Jay Rod fit and firing and we replace those that do leave with replacements of similar quality (easier said than done). I guess the decision for Clyne is balancing the potential to go for trophies more regularly, a bigger pay packet & being at a club with more world wide appeal against playing every week (he wouldn't be the first to fall flat on his face there & be sold on as a failure a season or two later) and the prospect of bettering them in the short term. it isnt though. finished higher, 2 cup semi finals in an appalling season. we are still clicking our heels and saying how amazing everything is for being not as good as that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 20 June, 2015 Share Posted 20 June, 2015 And the last PL club to do that was???????????? Our asking prices are too high, we'll no doubt soften a bit as the summer wears on. In the end we'll probably get 13 and a half for Clyne and about 22 for Morgan. Not sure about that think the club would happily keep him, and given his contract, they are under no pressure to accept anything less than their 25 million valuation. I agree though Clyne may well go for less than the 15 million the club wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 20 June, 2015 Share Posted 20 June, 2015 Yep. A move to Liverpool from us is an upgrade. Bigger ambition, club, stadium, wages, prospects etc. Sad but true. But nowhere near as much of a difference as there used to be historically. Their ambition is to get back to where they used to be, at the top of the division and doing well in the CL. We have ambitions to finish in the top four eventually and to play in the CL too. Although past precedent suggests that they will be better placed to achieve those ambitions than we will, it is not beyond the bounds of possibility that we could finish higher than them next season at least. Changes to player personnel at both clubs and how those new players perform will be key, but the evidence of how player changes at both clubs turned out last season suggest that we are better at managing them. I would argue that it isn't the case that anybody suggesting that Koeman is the better manager than Rodgers is wearing rose-tinted glasses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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