Losing our English talent

[S-Clarke]

I just think signings within the premier league is just far too expensive in most cases. £12m for long, £50m for sterling etc

 

£15m for Troy Deeney being another example. I mean, what is all that about??? He's never even played in the PL for flaming sake. Newcastle are keen though, apparently.

[Redslo]

This is unfortunately a sad truth. Burnley last season had something like 1 or 2 non-British (and mainly English) players and they couldn't do it. Buying good ones was beyond their means as well, because all the good ones are going to be snapped up to fulfil HG quotas. And then, with the amount of money swilling around, PL teams are able to almost take their pick of anyone they want from other leagues. You could certainly take a moral stance of having lots of English players, but then as you say, you would soon be supporting a Champ or L1 team.

 

But the counter argument was the 2012-2014 team where we often used 7 English players before selling some. Of those that moved on, I am presuming that we would find place in the team for all of them (depending on fitness) even Rickie.

 

Yes, we would. But that is the point. We could not hold onto them. In a more rational world, Liverpool would have understood what kind of player Lambert was and either used him appropriately or not bought him at all so we might have been able to keep him. Looking at our current roster, Cork is the one I would miss the most, but apparently Koeman would not agree. What does he know?

[Daft Kerplunk]

Not to be xenophobic in any way, its more just the cold hard reality that kids in Italy, Spain, Uruguay, Japan or wherever don't grow up dreaming of playing for Southampton and I'm afraid, probably don't really know much about the history and character of the club either.

 

Now I think the opposite may be true, although not that players from other countries dream of playing for clubs like saints. I think as time goes on, or even now, players from other countries are less impacted by our unimaginitive press who only focus on certain clubs and that English/British and Irish players still are. Meaning that our profile abroad right now is pretty high and growing so young foreign players view us as a good bet whereas young English players only hear that the usual suspects are the clubs to play for to improve and also do something with. Some foreign players may actually be better advised and know we are a good bet.

 

Johnny Foreigner is not necessarily as likely to want to bugger off and our English players like Lallana and Shaw who came through our system should in theory have wanted to stay longer, or see out their careers with us but left when they actually would have been better advised to stay.

 

Whilst the **** media here still might not get it, the more enlightened and less history bound folks abroad know we are a good team. That will mean players do as well.

[Mystic Force]

I wonder sometimes if we are playing fewer youngsters precisely because their heads might be easily turned and we want to wait till they are more mature so they dont want to leave after being hyped for 3 good performances.

[Redslo]

I wonder sometimes if we are playing fewer youngsters precisely because their heads might be easily turned and we want to wait till they are more mature so they dont want to leave after being hyped for 3 good performances.

 

That would be quite smart. Good thought.

[supersonic]

Lots of valid points - one other thing to consider' date=' the next few years of prospects probably won't be as good as they were first brought to the club in the period we were in a downward turn and the scouting would have suffered. If we were to assume that most kids join at the age of 8ish, and they are first year scholars at 16, then this years intake joined in around 2007. The 2008 and 2009 intake may not be great either. Things should pick up in 2017 again.[/quote']

 

The scholars who will be announced in the next few weeks are actually a pretty decent bunch. In particular the club are extremely hopeful Callim Slattery will break into the first team at some point within the next 2 seasons. One coach I've spoken to rates him higher than AOC.

 

There is another from this forthcoming season's scholars who is one to watch, however his name eludes me at the moment. Once my brain wakes up I'll post it.

[angelman]

Didn't Chelsea want Slattery? While of course it might on the surface appeal to join them, their policy is a little strange and he would no doubt be sent out on loan and never play for them.

[Lallana's Left Peg]

The scholars who will be announced in the next few weeks are actually a pretty decent bunch. In particular the club are extremely hopeful Callim Slattery will break into the first team at some point within the next 2 seasons. One coach I've spoken to rates him higher than AOC.

 

There is another from this forthcoming season's scholars who is one to watch, however his name eludes me at the moment. Once my brain wakes up I'll post it.

 

Slattery has been known about for a while - has even made an appearance for the U21's. He looks very good. There have been posts on here by people who have said that only a couple of players from this seasons U16's were offered scholarships, so how we're supplementing the rest of them I don't know but if it's anything like the last two seasons we've been taking talent off other teams - some as a better offer than they had at their current club, and others released by bigger clubs (Arsenal, Chelsea etc.).

[Give it to Ron]

Slattery has been known about for a while - has even made an appearance for the U21's. He looks very good. There have been posts on here by people who have said that only a couple of players from this seasons U16's were offered scholarships' date=' so how we're supplementing the rest of them I don't know but if it's anything like the last two seasons we've been taking talent off other teams - some as a better offer than they had at their current club, and others released by bigger clubs (Arsenal, Chelsea etc.).[/quote']

 

Exactly that - trialists from abroad, players released from other clubs - mainly London who pick up and release players like nothing up there. I have seen players play for 3 different clubs in a season. Our good u16s were pushed up to u18's at end of last season.

[The9]

Didn't Chelsea want Slattery? While of course it might on the surface appeal to join them, their policy is a little strange and he would no doubt be sent out on loan and never play for them.

 

And make them a couple of million in a transfer at some point.

[Dig Dig]

That would be quite smart. Good thought.

 

Except that when you read about Slattery as an example, he, his parents and his representatives are using other clubs interest in him in order to push him into the first team set up.

[Chez]

I wonder sometimes if we are playing fewer youngsters precisely because their heads might be easily turned and we want to wait till they are more mature so they dont want to leave after being hyped for 3 good performances.

 

from th eall be it limited number of times I have seen them, the latest batch don't seem to contain players that are quite ready yet. Not all players can waltz into a premiership side at 17, 18 or 19. Even Target has a little way to go yet.

[Redslo]

from th eall be it limited number of times I have seen them, the latest batch don't seem to contain players that are quite ready yet. Not all players can waltz into a premiership side at 17, 18 or 19. Even Target has a little way to go yet.

 

Now I have this mental image of our young players being told that they cannot play for the first team until they improve their ability to waltz. I visualize them all dancing together inside that big plastic dome.

[Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd]

We're the club that said, 'Our ambition is to have a team of homegrown English players playing European football'. That vision seems a million miles away now.

[Matthew Le God]

We're the club that said, 'Our ambition is to have a team of homegrown English players playing European football'. That vision seems a million miles away now.

 

When did they ever say that? Link?

[Redslo]

When did they ever say that? Link?

 

This is pretty close to saying that:

 

We deliberately five years ago made a different decision. This was based on our owner who had taken the club out of administration, Markus Liebherr. He bought the club because he loved football. He had an affinity with Southampton through the docks, through his business. He loved community—big on community. He loved watching good football. So the philosophy was based on come redevelop a team that will get into the premier league. Play in the top of the premier league with 50% of our players developed through our academy. Can we get a team that can do that and be exciting for the fans so the fans enjoy coming and want to be there every week to see good football? That was where it started from and then was so what is the strategy to put that together. It had to be bottom up. It had to be if that’s what we want to achieve at the end, this is where we have to start building now. So good techniques, good qualities, the athleticism of the players, everything from 8, 9, 10, and 11 had to drive towards that.

 

http://redsloscf.blogspot.com/2014/10/i-have-transcribed-les-reeds-38-minute_24.html

[Matthew Le God]

We're the club that said, 'Our ambition is to have a team of homegrown English players playing European football'. That vision seems a million miles away now.

 

This is pretty close to saying that:

 

We deliberately five years ago made a different decision. This was based on our owner who had taken the club out of administration, Markus Liebherr. He bought the club because he loved football. He had an affinity with Southampton through the docks, through his business. He loved community—big on community. He loved watching good football. So the philosophy was based on come redevelop a team that will get into the premier league. Play in the top of the premier league with 50% of our players developed through our academy. Can we get a team that can do that and be exciting for the fans so the fans enjoy coming and want to be there every week to see good football? That was where it started from and then was so what is the strategy to put that together. It had to be bottom up. It had to be if that’s what we want to achieve at the end, this is where we have to start building now. So good techniques, good qualities, the athleticism of the players, everything from 8, 9, 10, and 11 had to drive towards that.

 

http://redsloscf.blogspot.com/2014/10/i-have-transcribed-les-reeds-38-minute_24.html

 

There is a significant difference between the two.

[Nolan]

Surely there will be a natural dip in our Academy talent as there should be a lag effect of our dalliance in the lower leagues.

 

Were we able to attract the cream in league one?

[supersonic]

Surely there will be a natural dip in our Academy talent as there should be a lag effect of our dalliance in the lower leagues.

 

Were we able to attract the cream in league one?

 

We were able to keep hold of AOC and JWP whilst we were in league 1 and Portsmouth (their home town) were in the PL.

 

NB, before some smartass points out we sold AOC, I mean when he was still a youth team player.

[S-Clarke]

We were able to keep hold of AOC and JWP whilst we were in league 1 and Portsmouth (their home town) were in the PL.

 

NB, before some smartass points out we sold AOC, I mean when he was still a youth team player.

 

You seem to have an incredibly short sighted view over an academy system, or how one even works.

 

There will be peaks and troughs in the output of first team players. I would say that the academy turn out at the moment (and why we're having to top the squads up) is from our administration and days in L1. (mainly administration though, it pretty much dried up).

 

It will pick up again and the fruits of our labour over the past 3/4 years in particular will come to the fore. We have one of the best academy's in world football, it's second to none. Not even worth debating over to be honest.

[Twiggy]

You seem to have an incredibly short sighted view over an academy system, or how one even works.

 

There will be peaks and troughs in the output of first team players. I would say that the academy turn out at the moment (and why we're having to top the squads up) is from our administration and days in L1. (mainly administration though, it pretty much dried up).

 

It will pick up again and the fruits of our labour over the past 3/4 years in particular will come to the fore. We have one of the best academy's in world football, it's second to none. Not even worth debating over to be honest.

 

Barcelona?

[CB Fry]

We were able to keep hold of AOC and JWP whilst we were in league 1 and Portsmouth (their home town) were in the PL.

 

NB, before some smartass points out we sold AOC, I mean when he was still a youth team player.

No doubt that was down in no small part to the fact both players had a superb first team manager to work with in Nigel Adkins.

[S-Clarke]

Barcelona?

 

''One of the best''

[Redslo]

There is a significant difference between the two.

 

Yes. I just said it was close. I doubt Sidney meant a team of 100% home grown English players.

 

In any case, I think it is clear that we will never be able to have a Premier League team with 50% of the players developed through the academy whether you meant 50% of the starting 11, 50% of the 25 man roster, 50% of the players who play regularly, or 50% of the total minutes played. It will be impossible to get enough academy players who are good enough to play but not too good for the big clubs to buy away from us.