Pelle or Austin?

[Ivan Katalinic's 'tache]

With rumours around we may be after Charlie Austin and other rumours Bologna, or other Italian sides, may look to lure Graziano back to Italy, I wondered who others would prefer if we could only have one or the other?

 

Me, I think despite his barren spell midway through last season, Graziano is fairly integral to our forward play & despite the goals, I don't know if Austin would offer as much outside of the box. Any thoughts?

[the saint in winchester]

I want them both. Not in the biblical sense, you understand, just in my footballing squad.

[Wade Garrett]

Austin.

[Restark19]

Pelle.

 

 

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[Saint Pete]

I think if we are involved in a European campaign this year, we will need better options up front so that Pelle can be given a rest more often - I think this was part of his problem in the 2nd half of the season anyway, he should have been rested more.

 

So, I would like to see us have both to allow more rotation. (If we need to let someone go to afford Austin, I would rather it was Long than Pelle).

[beavis17]

Both.

[supersonic]

Austin. Better all round player, still not convinced by Pelle

[Bucks Saint]

Both. Long campaign ahead

[DrZuess1979 the 2nd]

Can't see Pelle being dropped, and I can't see Austin going somewhere he isn't first choice

I'd love to be wrong though

[Sour Mash]

I think if we are involved in a European campaign this year, we will need better options up front so that Pelle can be given a rest more often - I think this was part of his problem in the 2nd half of the season anyway, he should have been rested more.

 

So, I would like to see us have both to allow more rotation. (If we need to let someone go to afford Austin, I would rather it was Long than Pelle).

I can't see us having both or either being content with the set-up if we did. We'll have a few more games this coming season, but it'd still leave one of the players with a load of time sat on the bench. A club like Saints don't have players like Pelle or Austin as "back-up".

 

One of the toughest things for a club our size is building upon a great first XI and creating a really good squad - we're not enough of a pull and don't have the wage structure to have top players sat as back up.

[Saint Pete]

I can't see us having both or either being content with the set-up if we did. We'll have a few more games this coming season, but it'd still leave one of the players with a load of time sat on the bench. A club like Saints don't have players like Pelle or Austin as "back-up".

 

One of the toughest things for a club our size is building upon a great first XI and creating a really good squad - we're not enough of a pull and don't have the wage structure to have top players sat as back up.

 

Can see what you're saying and you may be right. But the noises coming from the club are that they want to progress to being a club regularly qualifying for and playing in Europe. Can't see how that is a realistic aim unless we can achieve better strength in depth, as Pelle will never last the season if he's played in more or less every game domestically and in Europe.

 

I personally don't think Pelle (or Austin) would have a massive problem with not playing all the time as long as they are getting a decent amount of games at a successful club, but agree with you that wage structure would likely be the main issue.

[Sour Mash]

Can see what you're saying and you may be right. But the noises coming from the club are that they want to progress to being a club regularly qualifying for and playing in Europe. Can't see how that is a realistic aim unless we can achieve better strength in depth, as Pelle will never last the season if he's played in more or less every game domestically and in Europe.

 

I personally don't think Pelle (or Austin) would have a massive problem with not playing all the time as long as they are getting a decent amount of games at a successful club, but agree with you that wage structure would likely be the main issue.

But they wouldn't be getting a decent amount of game time, 50% of fixtures ain't great for players in their peak. I'm sure the club would like to have both if they could easily afford them and keep them reasonably content, neither of those things would be likely though.

[pangy]

I would have to see Austins Mrs before making judgement.....Pelles mrs is pretty special so it would take something quite spectacular for me to be swayed to Austin

[positivepete]

Pelle

[kermitsaint]

Austin for me . Younger and a much more effective player . Pelle is overrated

[Batman]

Austin all day

[The9]

With rumours around we may be after Charlie Austin and other rumours Bologna, or other Italian sides, may look to lure Graziano back to Italy, I wondered who others would prefer if we could only have one or the other?

 

Me, I think despite his barren spell midway through last season, Graziano is fairly integral to our forward play & despite the goals, I don't know if Austin would offer as much outside of the box. Any thoughts?

 

There's no way Pelle's signing for Bologna, they can't afford him and we don't need to sell. They can have Gaston for £10m if they've actually got the money.

[The9]

As for the Austin or Pelle argument, should I ignore that we've just signed Juanmi?

 

Pelle is integral to our build up but Austin (and Juanmi) offer a different kind of threat, for which we'd need to set up differently.

 

Unless we plan on picking them both in midfield.

[the mick channon windmill]

Would be great if Austin signed and I think with the long season ahead we need him as players will get injured or drop form over the season but we have a fair bit of depth up front now with Rodriguez, Mane, Pelle, Long, Juanmi and Gallagher. We could however have achieved so much more last season if we had a regular goalscorer like Austin in the team in that period when the goals dried up

[dronskisaint]

Both but Pelle if only allowed one....much more important to our style of play than is often credited.

[Dark Munster]

But they wouldn't be getting a decent amount of game time, 50% of fixtures ain't great for players in their peak. I'm sure the club would like to have both if they could easily afford them and keep them reasonably content, neither of those things would be likely though.

Let's say we have 50 matches for the season (including cups). If each starts 50% that's 25 starts each. Of the remaining 25 maybe each would come off the bench as a replacement (or to join the other if we're chasing the game) 12 or so times. Of the remaining 12 or 13 matches where they don't play, possibly about 10 of those are injuries and suspensions. So only a handful where they are warming the bench for the entire game.

 

No problem. Sign him up and keep Pelle.

[Avenue Saint]

Both, but if it had to be one, no doubt about it. Austin.

 

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[Cabrone]

I'd take both, don't see why they wouldn't fit well together.

[st alex]

I would have to see Austins Mrs before making judgement.....Pelles mrs is pretty special so it would take something quite spectacular for me to be swayed to Austin

 

Why on earth would it matter what their wives look like? They are taken after all. Not sure Pelle, Austin or their partners - whoever they are, appreciate you perving on them.

[Redslo]

Why on earth would it matter what their wives look like? They are taken after all. Not sure Pelle, Austin or their partners - whoever they are, appreciate you perving on them.

 

Good point. Likely he has not considered this and will modify his behavior in the future.

[SarniaSaint]

Austin is vastly overrated and with todays signing we are adequate with forwards even when Osvaldo and Ramirez go......

 

Key is strengthen the midfield and defence.......and the goalkeeper situation.

[kermitsaint]

How does todays signing prove we are adequate with forwards ?

This spanish bloke is anything but prolific . Reports on him comment on his lack of scoring .

Basically we still lack a striker who can score a decent amount over the season .

[Sour Mash]

How does todays signing prove we are adequate with forwards ?

This spanish bloke is anything but prolific . Reports on him comment on his lack of scoring .

Basically we still lack a striker who can score a decent amount over the season .

 

Pellè, Mane and Rodriguez have all shown they can score a decent amount in the Premier League.

[syd_barrett_saint]

Pellè, Mane and Rodriguez have all shown they can score a decent amount in the Premier League.

 

I think we need a direct challenger/alternative option for Pelle. Right now I can't see who we would play in his role if we need to rest Pelle (as we should have done more often last season, and will certainly need to do this coming season with the extra Europa games).

 

J Rod, Mane and it seems Juanmi all suit the positions behind the main striker better, Long could play there but I'm not convinced, so unless Gallagher steps up this year we really need a player like Austin who can play up on his own to challenge and rotate with Pelle for that specialist position.

[bazza]

Both.

[SarniaSaint]

I think we need a direct challenger/alternative option for Pelle. Right now I can't see who we would play in his role if we need to rest Pelle (as we should have done more often last season, and will certainly need to do this coming season with the extra Europa games).

 

J Rod, Mane and it seems Juanmi all suit the positions behind the main striker better, Long could play there but I'm not convinced, so unless Gallagher steps up this year we really need a player like Austin who can play up on his own to challenge and rotate with Pelle for that specialist position.

 

Gallagher........isn't that what the academy is for????

[Bucks Saint]

How does todays signing prove we are adequate with forwards ?

This spanish bloke is anything but prolific . Reports on him comment on his lack of scoring .

Basically we still lack a striker who can score a decent amount over the season .

 

Yeah Koeman's judgements on transfers has been woeful, of course you know best

[kermitsaint]

Who said I know best ? Simply stating that we lack a decent striker .

Koemans transfers have been hit and miss .

Long is not a striker , a desperation signing .

Elia is poor

Djuiric is poor

Tadic is hit and miss

Pelle is limited in ability and age is against him .

Mane looks great yet gets played out of position to accommodate Pelle .

 

Toby is fantastic but we may not secure him . Bertrand was an excellent signing .

 

Please point out how Koeman has been excellent in his signings since he joined ?

[syd_barrett_saint]

Gallagher........isn't that what the academy is for????

 

I'm not sure he's the answer, but who knows, with his injury and other problems behind him, he could have a breakthrough season.

 

But I'd rather see us sign Austin and have him and Pelle rotate as we push for success in the Europa League, a domestic cup, and try to finish as high in the league as possible again. We'd have a far better chance of all that with Austin taking pressure of Pelle, than we would trying to rely on Gallagher, unless he surprises us all (which I would love to see, but I am skeptical).

[Bucks Saint]

Who said I know best ? Simply stating that we lack a decent striker .

Koemans transfers have been hit and miss .

Long is not a striker , a desperation signing .

Elia is poor

Djuiric is poor

Tadic is hit and miss

Pelle is limited in ability and age is against him .

Mane looks great yet gets played out of position to accommodate Pelle .

 

Toby is fantastic but we may not secure him . Bertrand was an excellent signing .

 

Please point out how Koeman has been excellent in his signings since he joined ?

 

Best Prem finish and points total, despite losing manager, coaches, and a heap of players not enough for you? Some of the above are loans. Name a manager where every signing is great.

Edited 19 June, 2015 by Bucks Saint

[Sour Mash]

I'm not sure he's the answer, but who knows, with his injury and other problems behind him, he could have a breakthrough season.

 

But I'd rather see us sign Austin and have him and Pelle rotate as we push for success in the Europa League, a domestic cup, and try to finish as high in the league as possible again. We'd have a far better chance of all that with Austin taking pressure of Pelle, than we would trying to rely on Gallagher, unless he surprises us all (which I would love to see, but I am skeptical).

Good level strikers at the peak of their careers don't "just rotate". I can't see either Pelle or Austin being happy sat on the bench for so long or for us to pay that kind of fee/wages for a squad player.

 

I'd happily see Austin here, just can't see it as practical or realistic.

[Hodgey]

Kermitsaint - think that is an overly harsh assesment there. Tadic, Pelle and Mane were excellent signings - their goals and assists last season proven that. The others I agree with though. I think the bigger point is priorities - at the moment I think we need a quality CB and Gk more than any attacker - irrelevant of replacing anyone who may leave, and that will probably cost a min £25m - add this to the £10m already spent and I think that hits our transfer and wage budget (ie £35m and probably another £7.5m in wages). I think Austin is a great buy at £15m and agree there is no direct replacement in the squad for Pelle which for me contributed to his poor second half of the season as he was simply knackered. Question is - do we need a reserve striker more than 1st choice CB or GK - or do we have enough already to get by.

[syd_barrett_saint]

Good level strikers at the peak of their careers don't "just rotate". I can't see either Pelle or Austin being happy sat on the bench for so long or for us to pay that kind of fee/wages for a squad player.

 

I'd happily see Austin here, just can't see it as practical or realistic.

 

Fair enough... but if we get to the Europa league final we'll have about 60 games to play this season ;-)

 

30 games each is more than just rotation!

 

Let me dream...

[The9]

Good level strikers at the peak of their careers don't "just rotate". I can't see either Pelle or Austin being happy sat on the bench for so long or for us to pay that kind of fee/wages for a squad player.

 

I'd happily see Austin here, just can't see it as practical or realistic.

 

Diego Costa played 32 and missed 22 for Chelsea last season, take out about 10 for injury, he's still been rotated for a quarter of their matches. So if it's good enough for him, it's good enough for Austin, Pelle, Long, Juanmi, Rodriguez or Mane too.

[The9]

Best Prem finish and points total, despite losing manager, coaches, and a heap of players not enough for you? Some of the above are loans. Name a manager where every signing is great.

 

This is the key, plus the knowledge that we've got inbuilt restrictions on the players we can afford and our recruitment reflects the need to maximise specific skills and add value to players we bring into the team to meet our overall aims of success and profit.

 

Saying Elia is poor judges him on goals, rather than his defensive work in front of Bertrand, and what his positioning allows us to unlock in Bertrand's skillset. Saying Djuricic is poor ignores our need to bring in attacking midfielders to boost a flagging and uncreative side in January. Saying Pelle's "age is against him" and that he's "limited is ability" is just nonsense, and saying "Long is not a striker" when we've only played him as a striker in maybe 5 games all season is spectacularly missing the point.

 

ALL of our players will have weaknesses, but the overall team improved hugely and most importantly we go into this summer with European football as an incentive for targets who'll improve us further, and we're unlikely to lose as many as last year so can actually build and improve rather than patch things up and hope to get to the level we were already at (which we did superbly). The likes of Toshida are not starters, but usually do enough of a job that they're worth having around. But we don't buy reserves, we buy skillsets and people generally have found the role in the team or squad they were intended to fill.

 

People need to look at the bigger picture. And why yes, I am still reading Moneyball.

[Graffito]

If a lion and a tiger had a fight, which one would win?

[Sour Mash]

Diego Costa played 32 and missed 22 for Chelsea last season, take out about 10 for injury, he's still been rotated for a quarter of their matches. So if it's good enough for him, it's good enough for Austin, Pelle, Long, Juanmi, Rodriguez or Mane too.

Putting to one side that I'm not sure how many he was actually rested for and how many were actually injures/suspensions, that still means that for 3/4 he was first choice and whoever his alternative was only played 1/4 of their games - neither Pelle or Austin would be happy with that and I can't see us sinking the kind of resources into back-up playes that Chelsea do.

[The9]

Putting to one side that I'm not sure how many he was actually rested for and how many were actually injures/suspensions, that still means that for 3/4 he was first choice and whoever his alternative was only played 1/4 of their games - neither Pelle or Austin would be happy with that and I can't see us sinking the kind of resources into back-up playes that Chelsea do.

 

Long cost £15m, played 21, didn't play 24 last season. Mane played 26, missed 19 (5 played before he signed, so missed 14). He's been integral though, still sat out 1/3. We're already sinking resources into the squad, and this season we'll have the chance to do it more than ever before - and the one player who wasn't rotated is in the position Austin plays.

 

For completeness Austin started 36, didn't start 4 last season - but played in 23 defeats and only 7 wins. I suspect we wouldn't pay the wages he'll be asking for to sit him on the bench too often either, but we're already guaranteed to be playing more than 40 matches, 42 if we lose as a seeded team in the EL3QR, minimum 44 if we get to the EL Play Off round, minimum 50 Group stages, add to that any wins in FA Cup or League Cup...

[Sour Mash]

Long cost £15m, played 21, didn't play 24 last season. Mane played 26, missed 19 (5 played before he signed, so missed 14). He's been integral though, still sat out 1/3. We're already sinking resources into the squad, and this season we'll have the chance to do it more than ever before - and the one player who wasn't rotated is in the position Austin plays.

 

For completeness Austin started 36, didn't start 4 last season - but played in 23 defeats and only 7 wins. I suspect we wouldn't pay the wages he'll be asking for to sit him on the bench too often either, but we're already guaranteed to be playing more than 40 matches, 42 if we lose as a seeded team in the EL3QR, minimum 44 if we get to the EL Play Off round, minimum 50 Group stages, add to that any wins in FA Cup or League Cup...

Mane wasn't "rotated", he played in the vast majority of games he was fit and in the country for.

 

I'm still not sure what the rest of your post is about, I can't see Pelle or Austin sitting on the bench for 30 odd games this season, if you can fair enough.

 

I'd like us to sign Austn, he looks a very good player, just don't think it's a realistic option based on us currently having Pelle.

[Matthew Le God]

Long cost £15m, played 21, didn't play 24 last season. Mane played 26, missed 19 (5 played before he signed, so missed 14). He's been integral though, still sat out 1/3. We're already sinking resources into the squad, and this season we'll have the chance to do it more than ever before - and the one player who wasn't rotated is in the position Austin plays.

 

For completeness Austin started 36, didn't start 4 last season - but played in 23 defeats and only 7 wins. I suspect we wouldn't pay the wages he'll be asking for to sit him on the bench too often either, but we're already guaranteed to be playing more than 40 matches, 42 if we lose as a seeded team in the EL3QR, minimum 44 if we get to the EL Play Off round, minimum 50 Group stages, add to that any wins in FA Cup or League Cup...

 

Long's fee was widely reported as £12m and Mane missed games due signing very late in the window, playing in the African Nations Cup midway through the season and also was rested on the bench after some other international dates in Africa.

[The9]

Going from memory, but thanks for MLGing that.

 

Trying to make the case for us signing Austin here, personally I doubt we spend that kind of wages on someone who doesn't play every match, but maybe we could use Pelle in Europa and some Prem matches Austin in certain other Prem matches. We certainly decided Long was a better option than Pelle for Chelsea away.

 

My main concern was that if we did buy Austin we'd need to set up differently, I remember how awful we were without Lambert when he was suspended because the whole gameplan was set to chip the ball into him and feed off him, and without him there people still did the same stuff, only they were dinking to Barnard or Sharp, or whoever (in the case of Man U at home when we lost 3-2, Mayuka). You'd hope we have players smart enough to adapt, but recent history suggests they don't do tactical thinking off the cuff very well when they've been drilled in something else.

 

Re: Mane, obviously we take availability into consideration, we know he's away, we make sure to use him more around that.

[Sour Mash]

Going from memory, but thanks for MLGing that.

 

Trying to make the case for us signing Austin here, personally I doubt we spend that kind of wages on someone who doesn't play every match, but maybe we could use Pelle in Europa and some Prem matches Austin in certain other Prem matches. We certainly decided Long was a better option than Pelle for Chelsea away.

 

My main concern was that if we did buy Austin we'd need to set up differently, I remember how awful we were without Lambert when he was suspended because the whole gameplan was set to chip the ball into him and feed off him, and without him there people still did the same stuff, only they were dinking to Barnard or Sharp, or whoever (in the case of Man U at home when we lost 3-2, Mayuka). You'd hope we have players smart enough to adapt, but recent history suggests they don't do tactical thinking off the cuff very well when they've been drilled in something else.

 

Re: Mane, obviously we take availability into consideration, we know he's away, we make sure to use him more around that.

I agree that another option for the Pelle role makes sense, just that I don't think Austin is a realistic option.

 

The Juanmi signing is a bit of a strange one, as it would have made sense to me for us to have bought a player of that level/age/potential, but in the Pelle style/role. Maybe we still will.

[kermitsaint]

I maybe harsh with my view on our players but we claim to be pushing for further up the table . Tadic , for all his skill is hopeless in front of goal . Only luck has allowed him to score . In fact plenty of our goals this past season were due to luck .

Considering our lack of creativity and relatively few goal chances its frustrating when so few get put away .

If Austin isn't the answer then fair enough but we do need someone better than Pelle . He isn't likely to improve due to his age and building the team around Austin would most likely give better results .

 

I agree Juanmi is an odd signing . I can't fathom why we need him . It would be criminal to rely on Pelle again considering how he fell apart last season .

 

Our defense was reliable until Forster was injured . Surely a back up keeper , keeping Toby and a decent Striker have to be priority in pushing on .

Replacing Steven Davis would be great too but Reed can fit that role .

 

Juanmi just doesn't fit unless another striker comes in . Koemans fixation on Pelle hinders the team massively

[Sour Mash]

I maybe harsh with my view on our players but we claim to be pushing for further up the table . Tadic , for all his skill is hopeless in front of goal . Only luck has allowed him to score . In fact plenty of our goals this past season were due to luck .

Considering our lack of creativity and relatively few goal chances its frustrating when so few get put away .

If Austin isn't the answer then fair enough but we do need someone better than Pelle . He isn't likely to improve due to his age and building the team around Austin would most likely give better results .

 

I agree Juanmi is an odd signing . I can't fathom why we need him . It would be criminal to rely on Pelle again considering how he fell apart last season .

 

Our defense was reliable until Forster was injured . Surely a back up keeper , keeping Toby and a decent Striker have to be priority in pushing on .

Replacing Steven Davis would be great too but Reed can fit that role .

 

Juanmi just doesn't fit unless another striker comes in . Koemans fixation on Pelle hinders the team massively

What a load of rubbish you muppet.

[S-Clarke]

I maybe harsh with my view on our players but we claim to be pushing for further up the table . Tadic , for all his skill is hopeless in front of goal . Only luck has allowed him to score . In fact plenty of our goals this past season were due to luck .

Considering our lack of creativity and relatively few goal chances its frustrating when so few get put away .

If Austin isn't the answer then fair enough but we do need someone better than Pelle . He isn't likely to improve due to his age and building the team around Austin would most likely give better results .

 

I agree Juanmi is an odd signing . I can't fathom why we need him . It would be criminal to rely on Pelle again considering how he fell apart last season .

 

Our defense was reliable until Forster was injured . Surely a back up keeper , keeping Toby and a decent Striker have to be priority in pushing on .

Replacing Steven Davis would be great too but Reed can fit that role .

 

Juanmi just doesn't fit unless another striker comes in . Koemans fixation on Pelle hinders the team massively

 

The biggest load of tosh ever written.