This season's signings

[Big Ron fan]

Given the current make-up of the squad and obvious team deficiencies (e.g. lack of goals and inability to defend set pieces), does anyone think the signings of Smith and Molyneux (who remember has no first-team experience, so may be well short of CCC standard) will really help address our slides towards relegation?

 

Moreover, of all the people we've signed (loan or permanent) since the end of last season, who have been unqualified successes?

 

Cork probably, but he seems to be on his way.

 

Morgan has looked very promising, but has probably been absent 50% of the time due to various injuries.

 

Some would say Holmes, although not me personally. In any event, he is a player with a history of injuries who has been injured for a good chunk of the season so far.

 

It really just leaves a long list (Forecast, Pulis, Gasmi, Robertson, Peckhart, etc) who, in half a season, have had little or no positive impact on the first team.

 

Even allowing for the finances, it's shockingly bad recruitment, whoever is responsible for it.

[dubai_phil]

Given the current make-up of the squad and obvious team deficiencies (e.g. lack of goals and inability to defend set pieces), does anyone think the signings of Smith and Molyneux (who remember has no first-team experience, so may be well short of CCC standard) will really help address our slides towards relegation?

 

Moreover, of all the people we've signed (loan or permanent) since the end of last season, who have been unqualified successes?

 

Cork probably, but he seems to be on his way.

 

Morgan has looked very promising, but has probably been absent 50% of the time due to various injuries.

 

Some would say Holmes, although not me personally. In any event, he is a player with a history of injuries who has been injured for a good chunk of the season so far.

 

It really just leaves a long list (Forecast, Pulis, Gasmi, Robertson, Peckhart, etc) who, in half a season, have had little or no positive impact on the first team.

 

Even allowing for the finances, it's shockingly bad recruitment, whoever is responsible for it.

 

Think Pekhart has gone back.

 

Dear socuting teams PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE find a proper CCC centre half

[um pahars]

We have brought in something like 13 new faces since JP came in. Those that have contributed are probably:

 

Perry

Cork

 

Then I would say the following have a good/average chance if they can shake off their injuries:

 

Holmes

Scheiderlin

 

Those that have underwhelmed me are:

 

Wotton

Robertson

Smith

Pulis

Gasmi

Forecast

Pearce

Pekhart

 

So, you're quite right in questioning our recruitment policy. Perhaps less of a scattergun approach would have been more successful.

 

As with our time in the top flight, I believe a more focussed and tighter approach would be more beneficial.

 

Bringing in so many new faces sort of blows open the idea that we have no choice but to go this way.

[Sheff Saint]

Exactly right.

 

We might have very little money but we've got a little bit.

 

The problem is the policy. By all means blood our youngsters, but spend what little money we have on some good experienced CCC players that can kick lumps out of opponents, thus freeing up Surman and Llanana etc to concentrate on their own games.

 

And get an experienced CCC manager in.

 

We might not have set the division alight but we might not be looking at relegation either.

 

Lowe's way foward was not the only way forward. Sack the board.

[Big Ron fan]

Exactly right.

 

We might have very little money but we've got a little bit.

 

The problem is the policy. By all means blood our youngsters, but spend what little money we have on some good experienced CCC players that can kick lumps out of opponents, thus freeing up Surman and Llanana etc to concentrate on their own games.

 

And get an experienced CCC manager in.

 

We might not have set the division alight but we might not be looking at relegation either.

 

Lowe's way foward was not the only way forward. Sack the board.

 

I agree wholeheartedly, but the purpose of this thread is to show how crap our recruitment is. Based on what's happened so far, whoever is responsible for it (Lowe, JP, Wotte. a.n. other?) should be out of the door sharpish if we are to have a hope of staying up.

[Big Ron fan]

Think Pekhart has gone back.

 

Dear socuting teams PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE find a proper CCC centre half

 

Yes, as have Robertson and Pearce. Doesn't alter the point of the thread though.

[Saint Garrett]

We have bought in some very poor players since the start of the season, that don't look like they're going to make any impact at all. Also doesn't help bringing in players when they are injured and then paying them to get fit before they can play!!

 

If they can't get in this current saints side, then (although it is a long way away) we start going up the table, then they aren't gonig to get in the side anyway...maybe we're just preparing ourselves for next year in League 1.

[Big Ron fan]

Trouble is that I think many of them, plus a number of our own youngsters currently playing, are probably not even particularly good League 1 players.

[JustMike]

think its time RL swallowed his pride, admitted he was wrong with this experiment and put it right before its too late

[Sheff Saint]

I agree wholeheartedly, but the purpose of this thread is to show how crap our recruitment is. Based on what's happened so far, whoever is responsible for it (Lowe, JP, Wotte. a.n. other?) should be out of the door sharpish if we are to have a hope of staying up.

 

What is even more worrying, is that the board don't appear to have learnt from the awful first half of the season.

 

The signing of the young everton left back looks like just another bad signing. I'll live in hope i'm wrong and support them all the way, but on paper, another unproven 18 year old is not what we need. What we need is a good solid workhorse.

 

Why Lowe needs to continue to go so blindly down this route is a mystery. No-one is knocking giving our kids a go. No-one is knocking have a mainly young team, no-one is knocking trying to play football.

 

BUT you need experience, varaince in your tactics and, whatever league you're in, you need some muscle. To pretend you don't is stupid. Sadly this was clear to most of us from the very start.

[West End Saint]

I think

 

Cork Morgan and Pearce are very good signings Holmes may turn out to be good the rest

have been rubbish

 

We need to sign a tall domiant centre back and a goal scorer urgently I am glad we have signed a full back but time will tell if he is any good

[Sheff Saint]

Trouble is that I think many of them, plus a number of our own youngsters currently playing, are probably not even particularly good League 1 players.

 

They're not.

 

Example is Ollie Lancashire. I'm not knocking Ollie Lancashire but he is very clearly no where near good enough for league football. I hope he develops but he is a hazzard every game and if he was released from Saints he would not play league football.

 

The problems we've got now will only be further emphasised in League 1.

[Legod Third Coming]

Firstly, some of the comments on this thread make no sense whatsover. Some of the players haven't pulled on a shirt in anger and could turn out to be anything.

 

Second, some of the players are being judged on three/four games which is patent nonsense - Crouch, Fuller, Bennett anyone?

 

Third, you could throw Ronaldinho into our team and he wouldn't look half the player he is in reality.

 

Most of our players can probably do a half-decent job in the CCC. Whether they are ready now is a problem. Whether they can learn from one another is a big problem.

 

The issue is not with the players we have signed necessarily but with the strategy of signing only young and inexperienced players.

[NickG]

last nights echo had the list of all players we have ever signed in January transfer window - not an impressive list!

[dubai_phil]

Once upon a time we had a clearly stated policy that we would ONLY buy a player IF he was BETTER than the player we currently had in a particular position.

 

Oh how we long for those days now. Who exactly is Smith better than?

 

So yes the OP is right, our recruitment strategy is not clear at the moment. We did the quantity instead of quality thing back in WGS's days and look where that eventually got us to.....

[Big Ron fan]

Firstly, some of the comments on this thread make no sense whatsover. Some of the players haven't pulled on a shirt in anger and could turn out to be anything.

Second, some of the players are being judged on three/four games which is patent nonsense - Crouch, Fuller, Bennett anyone?

 

Third, you could throw Ronaldinho into our team and he wouldn't look half the player he is in reality.

 

Most of our players can probably do a half-decent job in the CCC. Whether they are ready now is a problem. Whether they can learn from one another is a big problem.

 

The issue is not with the players we have signed necessarily but with the strategy of signing only young and inexperienced players.

 

Exactly the point of the thread. Are such players, in such numbers, sensible signings, given our financial position?

[saint63]

We have the poorest squad of players I can remember. Now we find ourselves with less cover at centre back and no proper outlet at centre forward to get on the end of the crosses - as we play with two wingers - it makes you wonder. We need a physically strong spine to compete at this level. We seem to have a Corinthian Casuals style of approach to football - purist but with no devilment; overplay and no end product. These days have gone by. I am beginning to wonder if JP is out of his depth with his under developed youngsters playing academy learning football rather than the cut and thrust needed. Our academy prospects in the squad are of poor quality - and our better players on loan have now gone.

 

I am now of the opinion that this experiment has failed. We need stronger characters on the pitch - physically and mentally.

[Legod Third Coming]

Exactly the point of the thread. Are such players, in such numbers, sensible signings, given our financial position?

 

No, but it does p!ss me off that some of them have been written off already.

 

And the signings are purely a result of the flawed strategy. The concept is buy cheap and buy young - so that's what we're getting.

 

If I had a hole in my roof we could argue all day about the absorbancy of my carpets, the best weatherproof pyjamas and so on.

 

But we need someone to fix the hole in our roof - or to persuade the board that a policy purely based on potential has the very real potential to drop us down a league!!

 

But let's not end up blaming the players who are doing as well as they can and know how for their age, value and abilities.

[SaintRobbie]

 

Even allowing for the finances, it's shockingly bad recruitment, whoever is responsible for it.

 

We know its LOWE - so lets not kid ourselves someone else is responsible Ron. Lowe is our Director of Football.

[aintforever]

Apart from Perry and Cork most signings have been a waste of money. Scheiderlin looks a good player but has rarely played, Holmes looks OK but same problem.

 

When you look at the amount of players brought in and we still don't have an experienced natural full back on the books, it's shocking management. We have very little money and have gone half a season playing either an England under 21 midfielder or a Czeck international midfielder at left back.

[Mole]

We know its LOWE - so lets not kid ourselves someone else is responsible Ron. Lowe is our Director of Football.

 

Dictator of Football is a more apt description of Lowe.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

Can`t really comment properly until we see the "array of talent"

the director of football and his chief scout manger to bring in to be

coached by our revolutionary and highly skilled dutch coaches....

[Andy_Porter]

We've wasted a lot of money on total ****e which could have paid to keep a striker here or sign an experienced centre back. Or money spent to keep Pearson in charge.

[benjii]

Firstly, some of the comments on this thread make no sense whatsover. Some of the players haven't pulled on a shirt in anger and could turn out to be anything.

 

Second, some of the players are being judged on three/four games which is patent nonsense - Crouch, Fuller, Bennett anyone?

 

Third, you could throw Ronaldinho into our team and he wouldn't look half the player he is in reality.

 

Most of our players can probably do a half-decent job in the CCC. Whether they are ready now is a problem. Whether they can learn from one another is a big problem.

 

The issue is not with the players we have signed necessarily but with the strategy of signing only young and inexperienced players.

 

Kind of backs up the suggestion that they have not made a positive impact doesn't it?

 

And this at a time where we have no money - you'd think we would want to strengthen the first team not fill the squad with pointless players. Then again, we have morons in charge.

[Legod Third Coming]

Kind of backs up the suggestion that they have not made a positive impact doesn't it?

 

And this at a time where we have no money - you'd think we would want to strengthen the first team not fill the squad with pointless players. Then again, we have morons in charge.

 

 

The set-up is wrong. The signings are determined by the set-up.

 

The players are being signed with the long-term in mind. So they fit the bill perfectly.

 

The plan is progressing to plan.

 

Is it the right plan??

 

That's the point.

[mitch01]

Holmes and Morgan have been excellent when they've played, things could improve as long as they stay fit. Cork leaving is a big blow, though, he was superb vs Reading.

[ExSt Peter Saint]

Perry's ok at this level, but he needs a big bruising centre half, like Lucketti, beside him to bring out the best in him.

No point discussing the ones that have gone now - anyone could see Cork was a great signing, so well done for getting him for 1/2 a season, but we're stuffed without him now as he was almost ever-present and leaves a big hole.

Schneiderlin has talent, but his contribution hasn't been consistent enough so far due to injuries.

Holmes ditto - a good signing IMO, although left wing was not necessarily the position we needed someone in most.

All the others are yet to prove their worth.

What we know is that there are positions for which we need players and once again these obvious gaps are not being filled. Buy a decent big CB, a right back and a striker and we might have a chance.

[derry]

Dictator of Football is a more apt description of Lowe.

 

This has to be the best summing up of Lowe's position in the club.

[um pahars]

No, but it does p!ss me off that some of them have been written off already.

 

And the signings are purely a result of the flawed strategy. The concept is buy cheap and buy young - so that's what we're getting.

 

If I had a hole in my roof we could argue all day about the absorbancy of my carpets, the best weatherproof pyjamas and so on.

 

But we need someone to fix the hole in our roof - or to persuade the board that a policy purely based on potential has the very real potential to drop us down a league!!

 

But let's not end up blaming the players who are doing as well as they can and know how for their age, value and abilities.

 

But once again I think you're missing the point.

 

This thread is about the strategy and the system picking up these players. I don't think people are slagging off the players, at worst they have been highlighting they are probably not adding anything to our strength.

 

Most of the ire on this thread has been correctly channelled at the poor stratey we are following and the poor choices that would appear to have been made regards spotting players who can bring something to the team.

[Chez]

The quality of signings has been low, but in addition we have also signed players that are very similar to what we have already.

 

Holmes is the exact same player as Skacel. Slow wingers. Skacel less inury prone.

Pekhard - Patterson. Tall striker to lead the line. Patterson at least puts himself about.

Dyer - Smith. Lightweight wingers that flatter to decieve. Dyer at least has pace.

Forecast - Bart. No one really knows if either are any good.

Gasmi - Lallana. Luxury players perhaps. Lallana looks a different level.

 

we even replaced former expensive **** with other less expensive ****:

Powell - Wotton

Saga - Robertson

 

Woeful transfer period if you ask me. If your budget is tiny then your scouting needs to be **** hot. Ours sucks.

[Legod Third Coming]

The quality of signings has been low, but in addition we have also signed players that are very similar to what we have already.

 

Holmes is the exact same player as Skacel. Slow wingers. Skacel less inury prone.

Pekhard - Patterson. Tall striker to lead the line. Patterson at least puts himself about.

Dyer - Smith. Lightweight wingers that flatter to decieve. Dyer at least has pace.

Forecast - Bart. No one really knows if either are any good.

Gasmi - Lallana. Luxury players perhaps. Lallana looks a different level.

 

we even replaced former expensive **** with other less expensive ****:

Powell - Wotton

Saga - Robertson

 

Woeful transfer period if you ask me. If your budget is tiny then your scouting needs to be **** hot. Ours sucks.

 

The point is we have bought cheaper players to allow for the ones we have to go - that much is obvious, sadly.

 

We need cash badly to sort the mess at this club out.

 

Holmes is Skacel's replacement, Smith is Dyer's, Forecast is Kelvin's, Gasmi is Lallana's and so on and so on until we have a club languishing in the Blue Square or one of these big-mouthed tw4ts on the board wakes up...

[um pahars]

Woeful transfer period if you ask me. If your budget is tiny then your scouting needs to be **** hot. Ours sucks.

 

Absolutely.

 

If you only have a small transfer kitty and a small amount for the subsequent wages, then use it wisely, prioritise well, bring players in who will improve the team, and don't spread it thinly across mediocrity (even by our own lowish standards).

 

We can but hope that this window brings as improvement, but following Cork's departure we are certainly weaker.

[Legod Third Coming]

Absolutely.

 

If you only have a small transfer kitty and a small amount for the subsequent wages, then use it wisely, prioritise well, bring players in who will improve the team, and don't spread it thinly across mediocrity (even by our own lowish standards).

 

We can but hope that this window brings as improvement, but following Cork's departure we are certainly weaker.

 

Have you see many Leopards with stripes?

[um pahars]

Have you see many Leopards with stripes?

 

No, but I'm sure I saw a Darren Moore go on a free to those mega spenders Barnsley.

 

We should have targeted far fewer players than the 13 we did, and should have looked at a few extra older heads.

 

Our scattergun recruitment policy has not benefitted the team in the long run.

[Chez]

I can fully understand the downgrading in terms of wages. Having Rasiak, Saga and John all of which are way out of our price range, on our books at the same time is quite frankly ludicrous. But there seems to have been very little thought into the balance of the squad. The only excuse for this can be the extremely rapid fall in attendances.

 

However, bringing in Pekhart (when we had Patterson who looks a better player IMO) and then realising he was **** so having to sign Robertson (also extremely average) just has me wondering if anyone is actually thinking what the are doing.

[Chez]

No, but I'm sure I saw a Darren Moore go on a free to those mega spenders Barnsley.

 

 

we chose Wotton. Whoever made that decision wants shooting.

[Chez]

Absolutely.

 

If you only have a small transfer kitty and a small amount for the subsequent wages, then use it wisely, prioritise well, bring players in who will improve the team, and don't spread it thinly across mediocrity (even by our own lowish standards).

 

We can but hope that this window brings as improvement, but following Cork's departure we are certainly weaker.

 

Saga and his large wages will return. There is no chance we will get stronger unless he goes again (or we sell Surman for mega money).

[Legod Third Coming]

No, but I'm sure I saw a Darren Moore go on a free to those mega spenders Barnsley.

 

We should have targeted far fewer players than the 13 we did, and should have looked at a few extra older heads.

 

Our scattergun recruitment policy has not benefitted the team in the long run.

 

What you and I would do, sensibly, is to target our spending to afford the best possible players in the positions. Maybe have 23 players? A good mix of experience and youth even?

 

But we're not running the club. A Leopard is. And in ten years, all I've seen is spots.

[Legod Third Coming]

I can fully understand the downgrading in terms of wages. Having Rasiak, Saga and John all of which are way out of our price range, on our books at the same time is quite frankly ludicrous. But there seems to have been very little thought into the balance of the squad. The only excuse for this can be the extremely rapid fall in attendances.

 

However, bringing in Pekhart (when we had Patterson who looks a better player IMO) and then realising he was **** so having to sign Robertson (also extremely average) just has me wondering if anyone is actually thinking what the are doing.

 

On the contrary, I think a lot of thought has gone into having young, cheap players on our books who we might improve and sell at a profit.

 

Not a bad thing necessarily.

 

But very bad when it is not ALL directed at improving the first 11.

 

A Lowe mistake we know of old. Spend money on radio, catering, bogs, carpets, anything but footballers.

 

Why?

 

God knows. But you think he would look at the people who pay the highest wages and realise they are all at the top of their respective leagues around the world.

 

Funny that.

[Chez]

What you and I would do, sensibly, is to target our spending to afford the best possible players in the positions. Maybe have 23 players? A good mix of experience and youth even?

 

But we're not running the club. A Leopard is. And in ten years, all I've seen is spots.

 

why do we always seem to want a large squad. With emergency loans, the youth team and players that can cover different positions there is no need for so many players on the books.

 

Kelvin Davis

Tommy Forecast

Bartosz Bialkowski

Andrej Pernecky

 

Chris Perry

Wayne Thomas

Michael Svensson

Oliver Lancashire

Jeffrey Imudia

Michael Bryne

Kyle Davies

Joseph Mills

Lee Molyneux

Lloyd James

Jamie Hatch

 

Simon Gillett

Oscar Gobern

Paul Wotton

Morgan Schneiderlin

Anthony Pulis

Andrew Surman

 

Romain Gasmi

Adam Lallana

David McGoldrick

Jason Euell

Rudi Skacel

Lee Holmes

Jake Thomson

Bradley Wright-Phillips

Ryan Smith

Kayne McLaggon

Matthew Paterson

Jamie White

Marek Saganowski

[Legod Third Coming]

why do we always seem to want a large squad. With emergency loans, the youth team and players that can cover different positions there is no need for so many players on the books.

 

Kelvin Davis

Tommy Forecast

Bartosz Bialkowski

Andrej Pernecky

 

Chris Perry

Wayne Thomas

Michael Svensson

Oliver Lancashire

Jeffrey Imudia

Michael Bryne

Kyle Davies

Joseph Mills

Lee Molyneux

Lloyd James

Jamie Hatch

 

Simon Gillett

Oscar Gobern

Paul Wotton

Morgan Schneiderlin

Anthony Pulis

Andrew Surman

 

Romain Gasmi

Adam Lallana

David McGoldrick

Jason Euell

Rudi Skacel

Lee Holmes

Jake Thomson

Bradley Wright-Phillips

Ryan Smith

Kayne McLaggon

Matthew Paterson

Jamie White

Marek Saganowski

 

Madness. If we're now playing the reserves and youth teams in the same formations and they train together we need 23 players in our first team squad. The two right backs should play right back. One in the first team, the other in the reserves. This really is simple stuff.

[hughieslastminutegoal]

The set-up is wrong. The signings are determined by the set-up.

 

The players are being signed with the long-term in mind. So they fit the bill perfectly.

 

The plan is progressing to plan.

 

Is it the right plan??

 

That's the point.

 

You said previously:

 

No, but it does p!ss me off that some of them have been written off already.

 

And the signings are purely a result of the flawed strategy. The concept is buy cheap and buy young - so that's what we're getting...

 

But we need someone to ...persuade the board that a policy purely based on potential has the very real potential to drop us down a league!!

 

But let's not end up blaming the players who are doing as well as they can and know how for their age, value and abilities.

 

You've therefore already answered your own question.

 

You say we shouldn't write off these players but you yourself say the signings have the potential to get us relegated. People like me are not completely writing them off their "potential", but feel that this season they will not be good enough to stop us getting relegated - and you have already agreed with that.

 

So I'm rather lost as to what your posts are really trying to say.

 

Since we have very little money, why sign and pay the wages of players "for the future" and stuff our ability to get in some players who at least will give us a chance of survival? And with a manager who clearly has no idea who is coming in next, and how good they are likely to be, we will be needing a miracle if we are to scrape into the 4th from bottom spot.

 

We absolutely must STOP SIGNING "POTENTIAL" AND GET IN SOME PROVEN ABILITY before the end of this window.

 

As an aside, I am utterly flummoxed by JP not wanting to, or being able to recruit good dutch players because they aren't suitable for this league when our stall was set out to make us play the dutch way, and he himself has no variation in tactics. Staggering logic.