sadoldgit Posted 7 June, 2015 Share Posted 7 June, 2015 Watching the final last night it occurred to me just how far we are away from the quality needed to be anywhere near winning this trophy. Qualifying is one thing and we may well do that soonish, but we are worlds away from being able to compete with the likes of Barcelona. Even Juventus looked well beyond us. We will never have the cash to bring in the quality of squad needed to compete at the highest level. Perhaps I am just having an Alpine moment, but maybe Europa is the best we can hope for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 7 June, 2015 Share Posted 7 June, 2015 Watching the final last night it occurred to me just how far we are away from the quality needed to be anywhere near winning this trophy. Qualifying is one thing and we may well do that soonish, but we are worlds away from being able to compete with the likes of Barcelona. Even Juventus looked well beyond us. We will never have the cash to bring in the quality of squad needed to compete at the highest level. Perhaps I am just having an Alpine moment, but maybe Europa is the best we can hope for? Sadly I have to agree. But always remember that the journey is more important than the destination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golac's Cunning Stunts Posted 7 June, 2015 Share Posted 7 June, 2015 I enjoyed the league 1 seasons very much so not too bothered about champs league Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatlesaint Posted 7 June, 2015 Share Posted 7 June, 2015 Would you have thought the Europa League was possible, gained through League position, two or three years ago ? There are many teams in the Champions League who cant compete with the likes of Barcelona, much much bigger clubs than us. I dont expect us ever to be able to win the Champions League, getting into the competition and playing through the group stage would be enough for me to be honest. That may happen one day, but not yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 7 June, 2015 Share Posted 7 June, 2015 Anyone who's honestly thinking we can win the CL, without a huge investor coming in post-ffp changes, is completely deluded, sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 7 June, 2015 Share Posted 7 June, 2015 The CL is totally beyond a club of our size, it's not negative or depressing to state that - it's just being realistic with your expectations. That's why finishing in the Top 4 this season would have been a step too far, in my opinion. We'd have ended up in the Europa play off anyway IMO. There may be a unique season whereby we do qualify, but even then getting to any decent stage in the competition after qualifying is near on an impossibility without incredible investment on PSG/Man City levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissyboy31 Posted 7 June, 2015 Share Posted 7 June, 2015 I think we've literally reached a glass ceiling that clubs of our size will probably never manage to get beyond. Being in the Champions League is a massive advantage to clubs, financially but also profile wise in attracting the best players and generating interest and support, world-wide. 7th/8th place means we are best of the rest, with the truly big English clubs fighting for the places above us. This also means that sadly, we are likely to have a Lallana/Shaw; Morgan/Clyne situation most seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNSUN Posted 7 June, 2015 Share Posted 7 June, 2015 Suarez, Neymar, Messi? Pah! They've got nothing on JRod, Mané, Pellè. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 7 June, 2015 Share Posted 7 June, 2015 Watching the final last night it occurred to me just how far we are away from the quality needed to be anywhere near winning this trophy. Qualifying is one thing and we may well do that soonish, but we are worlds away from being able to compete with the likes of Barcelona. Even Juventus looked well beyond us. We will never have the cash to bring in the quality of squad needed to compete at the highest level. Perhaps I am just having an Alpine moment, but maybe Europa is the best we can hope for? you only realised that last night? If you ever seriously had any hopes of competing at the business end of the Champions league then quite frankly you are a mentalist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 7 June, 2015 Share Posted 7 June, 2015 Would you have thought the Europa League was possible, gained through League position, two or three years ago ? Well, yeah. Occasionally smaller clubs do it. Not quite the same as winning the Champions League. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintalan Posted 7 June, 2015 Share Posted 7 June, 2015 Come on guys! All sensible cooments BUT... you gotta dream, you gonna send your young saints to bed tonight saying "dont dream about Saints being the new Barca, they aint ever gonna do it!" I still dream at my age! (ST 45 years) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintBobby Posted 7 June, 2015 Share Posted 7 June, 2015 Brilliant insight. Saints are some considerable way from being good enough to win the Champions League and probably would have lost to Barcelona if we'd been in the final yesterday evening. It's incisive, original, counter-intuitive analysis such as this that gets me returning to this forum over and over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodgey Posted 7 June, 2015 Share Posted 7 June, 2015 Agree on Champs League front. But if we are looking for the next stage can I suggest Sevilla have shown us a direction ?. Consistently in Europe but actually competitive in it and have won it 4 times in the last decade or so. That has to be our aim, constant qualification and silverware in this and domestic cups. Not a fanciful notion either, Sevilla average attendance is pretty much the same as ours and they are also well below their domestic top sides in terms of resources etc. We will have superior finances moving forwards and a better academy. So you never know, we may end up in champs league but via winning the competition which I think is ironically easier than finishing top 4 in the UK. Oh and they play in red and white as well ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint IQ Posted 7 June, 2015 Share Posted 7 June, 2015 Watching the final last night it occurred to me just how far we are away from the quality needed to be anywhere near winning this trophy. Qualifying is one thing and we may well do that soonish, but we are worlds away from being able to compete with the likes of Barcelona. Even Juventus looked well beyond us. We will never have the cash to bring in the quality of squad needed to compete at the highest level. Perhaps I am just having an Alpine moment, but maybe Europa is the best we can hope for? You needed to watch the final last night for that to occur to you? Really? Arsenal haven't got anywhere near to it since 2006. Thinking about that is pointless just enjoy the ride we are on competing in the top part of the one of the best leagues in the world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrZuess1979 the 2nd Posted 7 June, 2015 Share Posted 7 June, 2015 Athletico Madrid got to the finals didn't thay ? Have they spent 100's of millions ? Barca are the exception their football is a joy to watch as well as effective Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 7 June, 2015 Author Share Posted 7 June, 2015 Brilliant insight. Saints are some considerable way from being good enough to win the Champions League and probably would have lost to Barcelona if we'd been in the final yesterday evening. It's incisive, original, counter-intuitive analysis such as this that gets me returning to this forum over and over again. Okay take the p*ss all you like, but after all the chat of qualifying for the CL and Cortese's dream of CLs football it is not just a question of not yet - it is probably not ever. Forget Barcelona, there are many many clubs playing CL football that we couldn't compete with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 7 June, 2015 Author Share Posted 7 June, 2015 You needed to watch the final last night for that to occur to you? Really? Arsenal haven't got anywhere near to it since 2006. Thinking about that is pointless just enjoy the ride we are on competing in the top part of the one of the best leagues in the world Not sure what Arsenal have got to do with it? There have been plenty of discussions about us building up to becoming a CL contender at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint-Fred Posted 7 June, 2015 Share Posted 7 June, 2015 Athletico Madrid got to the finals didn't thay ? Have they spent 100's of millions ? Barca are the exception their football is a joy to watch as well as effective And man city spent a billion pound on a team and can't compete. Barcelona and Juventus are giants of world football so not being able to field a team as strong as them is not surprising. We need to think about catching up with the smaller sides before aiming for those clubs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 7 June, 2015 Share Posted 7 June, 2015 Athletico Madrid got to the finals didn't thay ? Have they spent 100's of millions ? Barca are the exception their football is a joy to watch as well as effective A. Madrid may wheel and deal. But they do that at a level well above us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 7 June, 2015 Author Share Posted 7 June, 2015 I wasn't even thinking about the Messi's, the non household name squad players are better than most of our players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch Posted 7 June, 2015 Share Posted 7 June, 2015 Not sure what Arsenal have got to do with it? There have been plenty of discussions about us building up to becoming a CL contender at some point. I can't ever remember seeing a single thread on here about us winning the Champion's League. Only threads I can remember are about qualifying to take part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danbert Posted 7 June, 2015 Share Posted 7 June, 2015 Porto have won it, Celtic went a long way, beating Barcelona in the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 7 June, 2015 Share Posted 7 June, 2015 Porto have won it, Celtic went a long way, beating Barcelona in the process. When did Celtic go a long way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wadesmith Posted 7 June, 2015 Share Posted 7 June, 2015 I think we've literally reached a glass ceiling that clubs of our size will probably never manage to get beyond. Being in the Champions League is a massive advantage to clubs, financially but also profile wise in attracting the best players and generating interest and support, world-wide. 7th/8th place means we are best of the rest, with the truly big English clubs fighting for the places above us. This also means that sadly, we are likely to have a Lallana/Shaw; Morgan/Clyne situation most seasons.l 'Literally' reached a glass cieling. Wow! I would like to see this glass cieling. It must exist, as we have 'lierally' hit it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JxgrSaint Posted 7 June, 2015 Share Posted 7 June, 2015 When did Celtic go a long way? 1967 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eelpie Posted 7 June, 2015 Share Posted 7 June, 2015 Miracles are not exclusive. Football cannot survive without hope, no matter how implausible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Posted 7 June, 2015 Share Posted 7 June, 2015 Even Juventus looked well beyond us. This alone is one of the most deluded sentences I've ever read on this site. Are you telling me that the 31 time winners of the Italian league are better than Southampton, whose honours include an FA cup 40 years ago and the JPT? Surely not? I haven't been to this site since the meltdown it experienced last Summer and this is one of the first things I read on my return. **** me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 7 June, 2015 Share Posted 7 June, 2015 Watching the final last night it occurred to me just how far we are away from the quality needed to be anywhere near winning this trophy. Qualifying is one thing and we may well do that soonish, but we are worlds away from being able to compete with the likes of Barcelona. Even Juventus looked well beyond us. We will never have the cash to bring in the quality of squad needed to compete at the highest level. Perhaps I am just having an Alpine moment, but maybe Europa is the best we can hope for? You are mental. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micky Posted 7 June, 2015 Share Posted 7 June, 2015 If we do reach the Champion's League do you think we will have to expand the stadium..? Just asking like....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 7 June, 2015 Share Posted 7 June, 2015 Watching the final last night it occurred to me just how far we are away from the quality needed to be anywhere near winning this trophy. Qualifying is one thing and we may well do that soonish, but we are worlds away from being able to compete with the likes of Barcelona. Even Juventus looked well beyond us. We will never have the cash to bring in the quality of squad needed to compete at the highest level. Perhaps I am just having an Alpine moment, but maybe Europa is the best we can hope for? Chelsea,Arsenal and Citeh have all the cash they could possibly need, didn't get any too far last season though. It's not about cash per se, it's about priorities. If you want to win the CL and you're an English club you have to sacrifice the PL title and hope you make 4th. PL football is too robust, no easy games, no walkovers against teams of factory hands like there are in Italy,Germany and Spain. In fact because there's so much cash in the PL it just makes it harder in the CL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW5 SAINT Posted 7 June, 2015 Share Posted 7 June, 2015 Not sure what Arsenal have got to do with it? There have been plenty of discussions about us building up to becoming a CL contender at some point. The fact is a club the size/stature of Arsenal have never won it, and never will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericb Posted 7 June, 2015 Share Posted 7 June, 2015 People seriously think about us winning the champions league!? Then have to watch the final to work out we can't... I don't know what you've been drinking mush but if you can sell it you'll make a fortune as it sounds like one of the most potent hallucinogenic drugs ever Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 7 June, 2015 Share Posted 7 June, 2015 Watching the final last night it occurred to me just how far we are away from the quality needed to be anywhere near winning this trophy. Qualifying is one thing and we may well do that soonish, but we are worlds away from being able to compete with the likes of Barcelona. Even Juventus looked well beyond us. We will never have the cash to bring in the quality of squad needed to compete at the highest level. Perhaps I am just having an Alpine moment, but maybe Europa is the best we can hope for? Making Europa League is a huge step forward for our club who were in the bottom 4 of L1 just 6 years ago. The progress we made in that time must surely be the biggest advance of any team in the Country. There are a number of clubs who have been in the Prem. longer than we have and haven't got a sniff of European competitions, and with a few luckier "if's" we would certainly have picked up that extra 2-3 points and have finished 5th.... The fairly predictable top four CL qualifiers have done it all before, and have a reasonable track record of (if not actually winning) finishing well in the last 8 of CL.. Anyone watching the CL Final can see exactly what we'd be up against if we drew one of those teams in a group. No ! ....Europa League is the next step, and few of us can guess how far we might go in that competition.... I think finishing top 2 in the group stages would be nothing short of miraculous, and show that we are on the right road. If we fail to get past the Qual 3rd match, then it'll be a good lesson to learn from and then back to the drawing board - and the Black Box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohio Saint Posted 7 June, 2015 Share Posted 7 June, 2015 I just don't get all these posts knocking the OP for simply getting a reality check. The past few years have been an amazing rise in our fortunes. It has become easy to become a little deluded about the prospects of our team, and seeing the Euro final was simply a reminder of how far we would have to go to realise the completion of any daydreams we may have. Sometimes, we need our dreams to be reigned in a little, and that's all the OP was talking about really. So many people on here want to bash others simply for the sake of it without even taking a moment to consider their point of view and the reason for saying what they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 7 June, 2015 Share Posted 7 June, 2015 You are mental. This. I just don't get all these posts knocking the OP for simply getting a reality check. The past few years have been an amazing rise in our fortunes. It has become easy to become a little deluded about the prospects of our team, and seeing the Euro final was simply a reminder of how far we would have to go to realise the completion of any daydreams we may have. Sometimes, we need our dreams to be reigned in a little, and that's all the OP was talking about really. So many people on here want to bash others simply for the sake of it without even taking a moment to consider their point of view and the reason for saying what they do. You are mental. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 7 June, 2015 Share Posted 7 June, 2015 Watching the final last night it occurred to me just how far we are away from the quality needed to be anywhere near winning this trophy. Qualifying is one thing and we may well do that soonish, but we are worlds away from being able to compete with the likes of Barcelona. Even Juventus looked well beyond us. We will never have the cash to bring in the quality of squad needed to compete at the highest level. Perhaps I am just having an Alpine moment, but maybe Europa is the best we can hope for? It's only just occurred to you? You, at some point up to last night, actually entertained the idea that Saints could win the UCL? Mental. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niceandfriendly Posted 7 June, 2015 Share Posted 7 June, 2015 The part about Juventus was so insulting to a club likes theirs. "Even Juve looked way beyond us"... umm, well... yeah! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_Tony Posted 7 June, 2015 Share Posted 7 June, 2015 Winning the competition is even beyond the English clubs these days, look how City have performed in recent seasons. I think maybe some people think we should keep progressing. But the reality is we're unlikely to get much further without spending millions. The original post is very strange. Are we upset at the reality we can't compete with Barcelona??!! Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohio Saint Posted 7 June, 2015 Share Posted 7 June, 2015 You are mental. Well, that post takes me back through the years to when I was 12! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redslo Posted 7 June, 2015 Share Posted 7 June, 2015 (edited) Anyone who's honestly thinking we can win the CL, without a huge investor coming in post-ffp changes, is completely deluded, sorry. If there is to be a post-FFP with unlimited spending, there will be lots of competitors spending lots of money. I am not convinced that would increase our chances of winning the CL. The CL is totally beyond a club of our size, it's not negative or depressing to state that - it's just being realistic with your expectations. That's why finishing in the Top 4 this season would have been a step too far, in my opinion. We'd have ended up in the Europa play off anyway IMO. There may be a unique season whereby we do qualify, but even then getting to any decent stage in the competition after qualifying is near on an impossibility without incredible investment on PSG/Man City levels. With a little bit of luck, this could have been that unique season. I am not sure what you mean by us ending up in the Europa play off. If we had finished third we would have been in the group phase. If we finished fourth we would have been in the CL playoff. If we had lost we would have been in the Europa Group phase. I think we've literally reached a glass ceiling that clubs of our size will probably never manage to get beyond. Being in the Champions League is a massive advantage to clubs, financially but also profile wise in attracting the best players and generating interest and support, world-wide. 7th/8th place means we are best of the rest, with the truly big English clubs fighting for the places above us. This also means that sadly, we are likely to have a Lallana/Shaw; Morgan/Clyne situation most seasons. But with regular European competition, we can (given the size of the PL TV contract) attract the next level of players and some of them maybe well develop to be very good before we sell them. What would we accomplish next year if, for example, Mane had a Suarez style break out year (without the biting). Come on guys! All sensible cooments BUT... you gotta dream, you gonna send your young saints to bed tonight saying "dont dream about Saints being the new Barca, they aint ever gonna do it!" I still dream at my age! (ST 45 years) Exactly. That is the whole point of being a fan of a club that isn't Bayern Munich, Manchester United, Barcelona, Real Madrid, or one of a few others. Agree on Champs League front. But if we are looking for the next stage can I suggest Sevilla have shown us a direction ?. Consistently in Europe but actually competitive in it and have won it 4 times in the last decade or so. That has to be our aim, constant qualification and silverware in this and domestic cups. Not a fanciful notion either, Sevilla average attendance is pretty much the same as ours and they are also well below their domestic top sides in terms of resources etc. We will have superior finances moving forwards and a better academy. So you never know, we may end up in champs league but via winning the competition which I think is ironically easier than finishing top 4 in the UK. Oh and they play in red and white as well ! I assume that this is pretty much management's plan. Okay take the p*ss all you like, but after all the chat of qualifying for the CL and Cortese's dream of CLs football it is not just a question of not yet - it is probably not ever. Forget Barcelona, there are many many clubs playing CL football that we couldn't compete with. Clubs other than the currently established top four occasionally qualify for the CL. And the established top four does change. CL qualification is unlikely for us in any given year, but if current management stays with the club for 10 or 20 years, qualification in one of those years is more likely than not. And man city spent a billion pound on a team and can't compete. Barcelona and Juventus are giants of world football so not being able to field a team as strong as them is not surprising. We need to think about catching up with the smaller sides before aiming for those clubs! Man City can compete, they just haven't yet. If FFP is loosened up, they will win the CL eventually. I can't ever remember seeing a single thread on here about us winning the Champion's League. Only threads I can remember are about qualifying to take part. Maybe I should start that thread. EDIT: Done. http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?54385-When-will-Southampton-win-the-Champions-League&p=2196504#post2196504 Porto have won it, Celtic went a long way, beating Barcelona in the process. It would be an interesting experiment to see what a club like Southampton could do with Mourinho as its manager. l 'Literally' reached a glass cieling. Wow! I would like to see this glass cieling. It must exist, as we have 'lierally' hit it! You can't see it. It is transparent. Try feeling for it carefully so you don't break it and cut yourself. This alone is one of the most deluded sentences I've ever read on this site. Are you telling me that the 31 time winners of the Italian league are better than Southampton, whose honours include an FA cup 40 years ago and the JPT? Surely not? I haven't been to this site since the meltdown it experienced last Summer and this is one of the first things I read on my return. **** me. Welcome back. You missed a lot more incisive commentary. Also, read my blog. http://redsloscf.blogspot.com/ http://redsloscf.blogspot.co.uk/ If we do reach the Champion's League do you think we will have to expand the stadium..? Just asking like....... No, but expanding the stadium if we can sell the seats is a good idea. I am happy to spend Ms. Liebherr's money on that. Chelsea,Arsenal and Citeh have all the cash they could possibly need, didn't get any too far last season though. It's not about cash per se, it's about priorities. If you want to win the CL and you're an English club you have to sacrifice the PL title and hope you make 4th. PL football is too robust, no easy games, no walkovers against teams of factory hands like there are in Italy,Germany and Spain. In fact because there's so much cash in the PL it just makes it harder in the CL. Under the current version of FFP, none of them--especially Chelsea--has all the money they need. Do you really think Mourinho would not have preferred to have a few more top notch players so he could rotate his squad more? Winning the competition is even beyond the English clubs these days, look how City have performed in recent seasons. I think maybe some people think we should keep progressing. But the reality is we're unlikely to get much further without spending millions. The original post is very strange. Are we upset at the reality we can't compete with Barcelona??!! Lol As an American sports fan it does bother me a bit that the system is rigged so that some clubs are unlikely to ever compete at the highest level. In the US any well run club can hope to win a championship in the next two or three years--most do not of course. This is the price that football pays for relegation and multiple competitions. Well, that post takes me back through the years to when I was 12! Being an American, when I was twelve I was crazy, not mental. Edited 7 June, 2015 by Redslo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svetigpung Posted 7 June, 2015 Share Posted 7 June, 2015 watching the final last night , not only was it beyond our grasp , but in honesty well out of the reach of all PL teams. It was on another level. Chelsea might give them a game, but only by parking their huge-friggin bus around the box. They would have had no problems to outplay Utd, Arsenal, Pool, etc. The PL is simply not developing as the other leagues are in europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Biscuits Posted 7 June, 2015 Share Posted 7 June, 2015 I would far rather think 'why not' than 'why' I might be 90 by the time we do it, but I'll stay forever optimistic that we can do it. You should note that I understand that CL is completely beyond us right now but you never know what the future has in store. The plan is in place -the club are very clear on where they want to go and I support that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 7 June, 2015 Share Posted 7 June, 2015 Not sure what Arsenal have got to do with it? There have been plenty of discussions about us building up to becoming a CL contender at some point. That was qualifying for it, I don't think I have heard or read a single thing from any Saints fan or anyone ever about us winning the bloody thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanRG Posted 7 June, 2015 Share Posted 7 June, 2015 The fact is a club the size/stature of Arsenal have never won it, and never will. Que? Plenty of smaller clubs than Arsenal have won it, and Arsenal themselves have only been a game away themselves on occasions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 7 June, 2015 Share Posted 7 June, 2015 Ask not if you can win the champions league, but how. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Munster Posted 7 June, 2015 Share Posted 7 June, 2015 You needed to watch the final last night for that to occur to you? Really? Arsenal haven't got anywhere near to it since 2006. Thinking about that is pointless just enjoy the ride we are on competing in the top part of the one of the best leagues in the world In fairness he may have thought we were a million miles away before the match, and realised afterwards that we are in fact 2 million miles away. I did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystic Force Posted 8 June, 2015 Share Posted 8 June, 2015 At a minimum we need to do better than the skates in European competition so we can take that away from them too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rooney Posted 8 June, 2015 Share Posted 8 June, 2015 "You should never be afraid of dreaming. Every great achievment was a dream before it became reality"...Henry Kissinger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 8 June, 2015 Author Share Posted 8 June, 2015 That was qualifying for it, I don't think I have heard or read a single thing from any Saints fan or anyone ever about us winning the bloody thing. Is there any point in entering anything if you do not want to win it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 8 June, 2015 Author Share Posted 8 June, 2015 In fairness he may have thought we were a million miles away before the match, and realised afterwards that we are in fact 2 million miles away. I did. Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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