Adkins is back

[hypochondriac]

The only retarded thing here is you using that name for people you don't know...

 

I think it's a reasonable assumption.

[for_heaven's_Saint]

The only retarded thing here is you using that name for people you don't know...

 

That's just a tad ironic.

[supersonic]

That's just a tad ironic.

 

I think it's a reasonable assumption.

 

It's a retards convention when Supersonic & Lard are on the same thread.

 

If you were really ambitious you wouldn't be bothered with these minor trophies, only the significant ones.

 

Apparently stating we should have won the league with the strongest team in the league is a retarded statement.

 

On that basis, all pundits that back Bayern, Barca/Real and City/Chelsea to win the league are equally as retarded?

[CB Fry]

Apparently stating we should have won the league with the strongest team in the league is a retarded statement.

 

On that basis, all pundits that back Bayern, Barca/Real and City/Chelsea to win the league are equally as retarded?

 

Your entire argument here is about being sneeringly simplistic about how easy something should be and what a failure someone is for not achieving it.

 

On that basis, it's pretty easy to not be a pitifully thick c *nt but you make incredibly hard work of it.

[The9]

I remember the days when people on here panicking Liverpool would try and get Adkins.

 

Can someone remind me at what point in the last 2 1/2 years Adkins went from being the next great English manager, the new Alex ferguson and a shoe in for the England job to someone who is a great fit for Sheffield United?

 

It was at the point when Reading's promises of massive investment which attracted him to them despite their obvious relegation turned out to be a heap of lies.

[The9]

I had to laugh when I saw someone getting agreement from one-track lard as vindication of their opinion that Adkins underachieved.

 

It would be like me suggesting we were going to come 17th and being delighted that Dalek popped up supporting me.

 

My second thought was "OMG there are two of them".

 

Just for the record, we may have had 41 matches left to play (we didn't, we had 39), but that "best squad in the league" had to that point managed to be the 22nd best side in the division after around a sixth of the season, which hardly suggests that managing them was easy and that success was guaranteed.

 

Also, how's about the following season, where everyone had settled for "maybe getting on the fringes of the playoffs" pre-season and we finished above Allardyce's West Ham side in an automatic position? Or was that a foregone conclusion as well?

Edited 4 June, 2015 by The9

[Batman]

It was at the point when Reading's promises of massive investment which attracted him to them despite their obvious relegation turned out to be a heap of lies.

 

other managers have gained promotion on a shoe-string from the NPC

[The9]

other managers have gained promotion on a shoe-string from the NPC

 

And been rightly highly praised for it. I doubt our Championship budget was anything particularly spectacular for one.

 

As usual you've missed the point - if you only join a club in the first case because they tell you you'll have a decent budget and that doesn't transpire, well firstly you have every right to be upset about that if it's detrimental to your career, and secondly it completely ruins any planning you might have done and almost certainly leads to an imbalance between the players you brought it to meet a higher budget and those on a lower budget, not to mention the gaps you might have been planning on addressing by spending money which instead become the problem positions preventing you from achieving success because you'd expected to be able to replace them and now can't.

[Batman]

And been rightly highly praised for it. I doubt our Championship budget was anything particularly spectacular for one.

As usual you've missed the point - if you only join a club in the first case because they tell you you'll have a decent budget and that doesn't transpire, well firstly you have every right to be upset about that if it's detrimental to your career, and secondly it completely ruins any planning you might have done and almost certainly leads to an imbalance between the players you brought it to meet a higher budget and those on a lower budget, not to mention the gaps you might have been planning on addressing by spending money which instead become the problem positions preventing you from achieving success because you'd expected to be able to replace them and now can't.

 

one of, if not the highest wages bill. Owner converted millions of debt (from spending) into shares and all that

[supersonic]

I had to laugh when I saw someone getting agreement from one-track lard as vindication of their opinion that Adkins underachieved.

 

It would be like me suggesting we were going to come 17th and being delighted that Dalek popped up supporting me.

 

My second thought was "OMG there are two of them".

 

Just for the record, we may have had 41 matches left to play (we didn't, we had 39), but that "best squad in the league" had to that point managed to be the 22nd best side in the division after around a sixth of the season, which hardly suggests that managing them was easy and that success was guaranteed.

 

Also, how's about the following season, where everyone had settled for "maybe getting on the fringes of the playoffs" pre-season and we finished above Allardyce's West Ham side in an automatic position? Or was that a foregone conclusion as well?

 

We played 41 league games whilst Adkins was our manager.

 

Still don't think it's unreasonable to suggest the best team in the league (by quite some way) should claw back a fairly small points tally in 41 games.

[supersonic]

I had to laugh when I saw someone getting agreement from one-track lard as vindication of their opinion that Adkins underachieved.

 

It would be like me suggesting we were going to come 17th and being delighted that Dalek popped up supporting me.

 

My second thought was "OMG there are two of them".

 

Just for the record, we may have had 41 matches left to play (we didn't, we had 39), but that "best squad in the league" had to that point managed to be the 22nd best side in the division after around a sixth of the season, which hardly suggests that managing them was easy and that success was guaranteed.

 

Also, how's about the following season, where everyone had settled for "maybe getting on the fringes of the playoffs" pre-season and we finished above Allardyce's West Ham side in an automatic position? Or was that a foregone conclusion as well?

 

We played 41 league games whilst Adkins was our manager.

 

Still don't think it's unreasonable to suggest the best team in the league (by quite some way) should claw back a fairly small points tally in 41 games.

 

At the beginning of the season we were odds on favourites to win the league and that view was shared on here by most posters.

 

Going back to the original post, football has a way of finding a persons level very quickly. Adkins is, sadly, nothing more than a league 1/championship manager at best. Good luck to him though.

[teamsaint]

We played 41 league games whilst Adkins was our manager.

 

Still don't think it's unreasonable to suggest the best team in the league (by quite some way) should claw back a fairly small points tally in 41 games.

 

At the beginning of the season we were odds on favourites to win the league and that view was shared on here by most posters.

 

Going back to the original post, football has a way of finding a persons level very quickly. Adkins is, sadly, nothing more than a league 1/championship manager at best. Good luck to him though.

 

remind us again where we were in the PL, and our last few results when he was sacked.

 

oh, and a list of any managers, including Saints ,with back to back promotions from L1 to the PL would be a useful resource too.

[CB Fry]

We played 41 league games whilst Adkins was our manager.

 

Still don't think it's unreasonable to suggest the best team in the league (by quite some way) should claw back a fairly small points tally in 41 games.

 

At the beginning of the season we were odds on favourites to win the league and that view was shared on here by most posters.

 

Going back to the original post, football has a way of finding a persons level very quickly. Adkins is, sadly, nothing more than a league 1/championship manager at best. Good luck to him though.

So he takes over in September and is expected to deliver the league title or be deemed a failure.

 

No, that not unreasonable at all. Of course not. Pathetic.

 

His job was to get us up without question, he would have failed if we hadn't done that, but he did it.

 

That doesn't mean it was easy and certainly doesn't mean that not winning the title was a failure.

 

Your apparent glee at snide little digs at one of our most successful managers who played a massive role in where we are now, speaks volumes about you.

 

He is a excellent manager at L1, proven at Championship level, and yet to be proven at Premier League level.

 

But his role in our history rises above all that because he delivered back to back promotions and a Premier League-ready team, and negates any need to be a sneering little pri ck about him.

 

But you and Lardy carry on. It makes you look awfully clever.

[Wes Tender]

We played 41 league games whilst Adkins was our manager.

 

Still don't think it's unreasonable to suggest the best team in the league (by quite some way) should claw back a fairly small points tally in 41 games.

 

At the beginning of the season we were odds on favourites to win the league and that view was shared on here by most posters.

 

Going back to the original post, football has a way of finding a persons level very quickly. Adkins is, sadly, nothing more than a league 1/championship manager at best. Good luck to him though.

 

He was doing quite nicely for us in the Premier League until Cortese replaced him. I presume that you would say that Pochettino is a good PL manager and yet he only had us one place higher in the League than when Adkins left. Nobody can be sure whether Adkins might not have done better than Pochettino had he stayed.

 

I look back fondly at what we achieved when he was here and wish him well at Sheffield United.

[Saint_Ash]

If anything Adkins is too good for Sheff United in their current form. Could easily take a top half Championship side role. He knows what it takes to get promoted, would succeed at somewhere like Derby where McClaren fell away. Would be nice to see him gain promotion with Sheff United though, I'll be keeping an eye on them.

[buctootim]

He was doing quite nicely for us in the Premier League until Cortese replaced him. I presume that you would say that Pochettino is a good PL manager and yet he only had us one place higher in the League than when Adkins left. Nobody can be sure whether Adkins might not have done better than Pochettino had he stayed.

 

I look back fondly at what we achieved when he was here and wish him well at Sheffield United.

 

The thing with football managers is its as much about the players believing in you as about actual ability. Attracting good players, retaining them and getting your existing players to buy into your methods is most of the job - and thats far far easier if you are an ex Argentine international than an ex lower leagues goalie. I think Adkins was the better manager whilst Pochettino had the 'pull', Koeman is better than either because he seems to have both.

 

I'd be delighted if Adkins gets Sheffield United to the PL and keeps them there - more than possible imo.

[Wes Tender]

The thing with football managers is its as much about the players believing in you as about actual ability. Attracting good players, retaining them and getting your existing players to buy into your methods is most of the job - and thats far far easier if you are an ex Argentine international than an ex lower leagues goalie. I think Adkins was the better manager whilst Pochettino had the 'pull', Koeman is better than either because he seems to have both.

 

I'd be delighted if Adkins gets Sheffield United to the PL and keeps them there - more than possible imo.

 

A manager's football background might command the respect of the players and Koeman's is right at the top, whereas I'm not convinced that Pochettino was that big a draw for incoming players. But I don't think that it plays as strong a part in the success of a manager as other abilities which have less to do with how they fared as a player. Obviously an ability to motivate them is important, as is the ability to employ strategy to get the most out of the players available and a good eye for the type of player who would be an effective addition to the squad. There are enough examples of players who were successful at the highest level of the game, but who were abject failures at management. There are also shining examples of top successful managers whose playing careers were well below that level; Mourinho for example was only a player in the Portuguese second division.

 

When Adkins had managed the fantastic achievement of back to back promotions and some went over the top in worrying whether Liverpool might have come in for him, his managerial record wasn't that far removed from what Brendan Rogers had achieved. It doesn't seem too bizarre to speculate that Adkins might have achieved what Rogers did at Liverpool given the resources that he had. He made the wrong move to Reading (where Rogers also had not done that well) and I hope that he rekindles his career with Sheffield United.

[Saint86]

So he takes over in September and is expected to deliver the league title or be deemed a failure.

 

No, that not unreasonable at all. Of course not. Pathetic.

 

His job was to get us up without question, he would have failed if we hadn't done that, but he did it.

 

That doesn't mean it was easy and certainly doesn't mean that not winning the title was a failure.

 

Your apparent glee at snide little digs at one of our most successful managers who played a massive role in where we are now, speaks volumes about you.

 

He is a excellent manager at L1, proven at Championship level, and yet to be proven at Premier League level.

 

But his role in our history rises above all that because he delivered back to back promotions and a Premier League-ready team, and negates any need to be a sneering little pri ck about him.

 

But you and Lardy carry on. It makes you look awfully clever.

 

Perfect summation, enjoying watching supersonic get his arse handed to him

 

Keep up the excellent work CB Fry, bell ends like supersonic should be booted off the forum with their continual troll ballarks

[supersonic]

remind us again where we were in the PL, and our last few results when he was sacked.

 

oh, and a list of any managers, including Saints ,with back to back promotions from L1 to the PL would be a useful resource too.

 

Paul Lambert

So he takes over in September and is expected to deliver the league title or be deemed a failure.

 

No, that not unreasonable at all. Of course not. Pathetic.

 

His job was to get us up without question, he would have failed if we hadn't done that, but he did it.

 

That doesn't mean it was easy and certainly doesn't mean that not winning the title was a failure.

 

Your apparent glee at snide little digs at one of our most successful managers who played a massive role in where we are now, speaks volumes about you.

 

He is a excellent manager at L1, proven at Championship level, and yet to be proven at Premier League level.

 

But his role in our history rises above all that because he delivered back to back promotions and a Premier League-ready team, and negates any need to be a sneering little pri ck about him.

 

But you and Lardy carry on. It makes you look awfully clever.

 

He had more than enough time to win the league, we didn't. He has to take his blame for it. I know for a fact the board were pretty ****ed off we didn't win either division.

 

He was doing quite nicely for us in the Premier League until Cortese replaced him. I presume that you would say that Pochettino is a good PL manager and yet he only had us one place higher in the League than when Adkins left. Nobody can be sure whether Adkins might not have done better than Pochettino had he stayed.

 

I look back fondly at what we achieved when he was here and wish him well at Sheffield United.

 

Pochettino was a clear upgrade on Adkins. If Adkins was that good we:

 

1) wouldn't have sacked him

2) he wouldn't be over looked constantly by every Premier league and championship club that has had a managerial position available

 

Perfect summation, enjoying watching supersonic get his arse handed to him

 

Keep up the excellent work CB Fry, bell ends like supersonic should be booted off the forum with their continual troll ballarks

 

I pay my membership, I'm allowed my opinion. If you don't agree with it, fine. But you can't go banning people who don't agree with how you think, that's known as totalitarianism. If that's your thing, go live in Russia/North Korea. I make a valid point, as do others that disagree with me. Completely open to a educated debate, others it seems are not.

[CB Fry]

So an "educated debate" is you providing a list containing one name? One name. A list.

 

Them educated people am so clever ain't they?

[Wes Tender]

Pochettino was a clear upgrade on Adkins. If Adkins was that good we:

 

1) wouldn't have sacked him

2) he wouldn't be over looked constantly by every Premier league and championship club that has had a managerial position available

 

 

My point stands. Pochettino was such a clear upgrade on Adkins that he managed to get us advanced one whole place higher than Adkins. I very much doubt that you had heard much about Pochettino before he came here, apart from him giving away that penalty to Owen in the World Cup. But even if you had, he was a totally unkown quantity when it came to the English PL. The vast majority of Saints fans were quite content with what Adkins had achieved, but Cortese rolled the dice and his gamble paid off, Pochettino did prove effective in his first full season.

 

As for your second point, you have no idea whether he was overlooked, wanted more of a break, wasn't interested in some of the vacancies, or whether there were managers appointed to vacancies that had some connection to those clubs.

 

But if the whole point of you arguing this is that you consider that he was somehow a failure for not getting us promoted as champions each of the two times, then you must really appreciate being in such a small minority of opinion. Why is that? Is everybody else wrong?

[ChudSaint]

I'll remember the Adkins era more fondly than the Pochettino era..

[cellone]

Adkins = WhoTF. WhatTF. HowTF. WellTF done.

[Batman]

My point stands. Pochettino was such a clear upgrade on Adkins that he managed to get us advanced one whole place higher than Adkins. I very much doubt that you had heard much about Pochettino before he came here, apart from him giving away that penalty to Owen in the World Cup. But even if you had, he was a totally unkown quantity when it came to the English PL. The vast majority of Saints fans were quite content with what Adkins had achieved, but Cortese rolled the dice and his gamble paid off, Pochettino did prove effective in his first full season.

 

As for your second point, you have no idea whether he was overlooked, wanted more of a break, wasn't interested in some of the vacancies, or whether there were managers appointed to vacancies that had some connection to those clubs.

 

But if the whole point of you arguing this is that you consider that he was somehow a failure for not getting us promoted as champions each of the two times, then you must really appreciate being in such a small minority of opinion. Why is that? Is everybody else wrong?

 

Adkins is managing sheff United poch is managing Spurs.

 

 

And you suggest there was nothing really between them?

[david in sweden]

whilst few can regret the success we've had since Adkins left, it would be unfair to denegrate his efforts from those lowly days in L1 upto the Prem. promotion.

 

In some ways, a double promotion is just as hard as surviving in the Prem. He kept the momentum of the L1 promotion, when it's often difficult to stay up the first season.

 

I hope that he succeeds in his new job, but I also hope that he can " toughen up " a bit, as I thought (at times) he was a bit too much of a " Mr. Nice Guy "

[sussexsaint]

Adkins = WhoTF. WhatTF. HowTF. WellTF done.

 

Beautifully put

[Wes Tender]

Adkins is managing sheff United poch is managing Spurs.

 

 

And you suggest there was nothing really between them?

 

Read what I posted a bit more carefully. I said that in the first season that he arrived, there was little to suggest that Adkins could not have got us one position higher too. Pochettino proved his worth the following season, but again there is nothing concrete to suggest that Adkins could not have raised us there too given the resources that Pochettino was given. It is all conjecture.

 

Fate had Adkins go to Reading which was the wrong move and Pochettino went to Spurs, which he will find out soon enough is a poisoned chalice. If Adkins gets SU back to the PL and Pochettino gets sacked for not getting Spurs into the top 4, then we can revisit the "who is the better manager" debate. The argument that just because a manager is with a higher positioned team that he must be better than one managing a lower team isn't watertight, merely suggestive. I understand that Tim Sherwood achieved better results at Spurs than Pochettino and yet he is now much further down the PL at Villa. Rogers and Pochettino are both managing teams above Southampton, so are they better managers than Koeman? Is the former manager of Swansea who is now at Liverpool better than the current one several places below him?

[supersonic]

So an "educated debate" is you providing a list containing one name? One name. A list.

 

Them educated people am so clever ain't they?

 

Joe Royale too.

 

My point stands. Pochettino was such a clear upgrade on Adkins that he managed to get us advanced one whole place higher than Adkins. I very much doubt that you had heard much about Pochettino before he came here, apart from him giving away that penalty to Owen in the World Cup. But even if you had, he was a totally unkown quantity when it came to the English PL. The vast majority of Saints fans were quite content with what Adkins had achieved, but Cortese rolled the dice and his gamble paid off, Pochettino did prove effective in his first full season.

 

As for your second point, you have no idea whether he was overlooked, wanted more of a break, wasn't interested in some of the vacancies, or whether there were managers appointed to vacancies that had some connection to those clubs.

 

But if the whole point of you arguing this is that you consider that he was somehow a failure for not getting us promoted as champions each of the two times, then you must really appreciate being in such a small minority of opinion. Why is that? Is everybody else wrong?

 

I was completely aware of Pochettino before he came here. As a player, he was a name that I knew but didn't really follow his career. However, I follow Spanish football quite heavily and certainly knew who he was after his time at Espanyol. You are right that we will never know how we would have finished in the PL under Adkins, however I'm confident we wouldn't have finished 8th the season after.

 

I know a fair bit about the "behind the scenes" stuff when Adkins was in charge, some very interesting stuff that people may/may not know. However, when we was appointed (and let's not forget he WASN'T our first choice manager) his one instruction was to win League 1. We didn't do it. He failed to complete the instructions.

 

Again, I don't know for a fact that Adkins wasn't interested in some of the vacancies, however it seems a bit strange he's gone to SU rather than holding out for a bigger club in a higher position. If you think you're a PL/Championship manager, why join a League 1 team? Also, if a club wanted him that badly they would have made him an offer he couldn't refuse?

 

As for your last point, no everyone else is not wrong, it's a matter of opinions. I think we should have won the league both times, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way.

[S-Clarke]

Joe Royale too.

 

 

That list of yours is really taking shape. Keep it up.

[Batman]

Read what I posted a bit more carefully. I said that in the first season that he arrived, there was little to suggest that Adkins could not have got us one position higher too. Pochettino proved his worth the following season, but again there is nothing concrete to suggest that Adkins could not have raised us there too given the resources that Pochettino was given. It is all conjecture.

 

Fate had Adkins go to Reading which was the wrong move and Pochettino went to Spurs, which he will find out soon enough is a poisoned chalice. If Adkins gets SU back to the PL and Pochettino gets sacked for not getting Spurs into the top 4, then we can revisit the "who is the better manager" debate. The argument that just because a manager is with a higher positioned team that he must be better than one managing a lower team isn't watertight, merely suggestive. I understand that Tim Sherwood achieved better results at Spurs than Pochettino and yet he is now much further down the PL at Villa. Rogers and Pochettino are both managing teams above Southampton, so are they better managers than Koeman? Is the former manager of Swansea who is now at Liverpool better than the current one several places below him?

 

They are two leagues apart. Not two places. Jesus

[CB Fry]

Joe Royale too.

 

You're so "educated" you can't spell the name of a very well known figure in the English game.

 

And so "educated" you think a list is now two names, whose achievements are about twenty years apart. Conclusive stuff.

 

It's an experience having such an educated debate with someone so awfully clever.

[supersonic]

You're so "educated" you can't spell the name of a very well known figure in the English game.

 

And so "educated" you think a list is now two names, whose achievements are about twenty years apart. Conclusive stuff.

 

It's an experience having such an educated debate with someone so awfully clever.

 

They are the only two other managers to do this in the modern era. you've asked me to list managers who have done the same, I've done it and now you're picking holes in it. It seems as if you have forgotten about those.

 

As I've said, his ONLY objective for the season when he took over was to win League 1, he didn't do it. This was an objective set by the club and I'd say 90% of Saints fans expected us to win the league in pre-season. Why is it that when we didn't it's not seen as a failure?

 

The fact you think it's unreasonable for a manager that has the whole season (minus 5 games) to win the league with the strongest side by a mile is a little worrying.

[CB Fry]

They are the only two other managers to do this in the modern era. you've asked me to list managers who have done the same, I've done it and now you're picking holes in it. It seems as if you have forgotten about those.

 

As I've said, his ONLY objective for the season when he took over was to win League 1, he didn't do it. This was an objective set by the club and I'd say 90% of Saints fans expected us to win the league in pre-season. Why is it that when we didn't it's not seen as a failure?

 

The fact you think it's unreasonable for a manager that has the whole season (minus 5 games) to win the league with the strongest side by a mile is a little worrying.

The fact you can't see the relevance that you can only come up with two names proves what a sap you are.

[supersonic]

The fact you can't see the relevance that you can only come up with two names proves what a sap you are.

 

There are only 2 other people who have done it in modern times, how can I come up with more names? You clearly forgot about the people who have also done it and are trying to deflect that.

 

I's like me asking you to name a list of British managers who have won the PL and then mocking you for only providing 2 name!

[Wes Tender]

As for your last point, no everyone else is not wrong, it's a matter of opinions. I think we should have won the league both times, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way.

 

As far as I'm aware, even Cortese wasn't expecting us to gain promotion in consecutive seasons, as we achieved his five year plan a year early, didn't we?

 

Whether Cortese also stipulated that we not only had to achieve promotion that season as champions rather than automatically is something that I do not know, but you're obviously certain that it had to be as champions and so Adkins is one lucky guy for not getting the bullet at the end of that first season, isn't he?

Les Reed:

We know what we’re doing here. There was a five-year plan in 2009 when this club was in League One. We got out of there ahead of target. Then we got out of the Championship ahead of target. We’re at the start of our next five-year plan now. There’s no panic. We march on.’

 

Reed only talks about "getting out of divisions", not winning them, but I'm sure that you will be able to explain what he really meant, having internal contacts.

 

No, you're not the only one labelling Adkins a failure for not achieving promotion as champions. St Lard also thinks that too

[Crazy Diamond]

Is there actually a debate here about how good Adkins was for us? How utterly ridiculous.

[mulletsaint]

Is there actually a debate here about how good Adkins was for us? How utterly ridiculous.

 

My thoughts exactly.

[S-Clarke]

Is there actually a debate here about how good Adkins was for us? How utterly ridiculous.

 

Wouldn't say a debate as much, just lard and supersonic just getting destroyed.

[CB Fry]

There are only 2 other people who have done it in modern times, how can I come up with more names? You clearly forgot about the people who have also done it and are trying to deflect that.

 

I's like me asking you to name a list of British managers who have won the PL and then mocking you for only providing 2 name!

 

It's always nice when all I need to do is repeat exactly the same post twice in succession. Here you go, again.

 

The fact you can't see the relevance that you can only come up with two names proves what a sap you are.

 

Have another think.

[Crazy Diamond]

Let's review.

 

- Took over a team that had a poor start to the season, turned them into promotion-winners in an incredibly competitive division. Has Huddersfield's run been forgotten? The win at Brighton, where no opposing team had won all season?

- Adding a few players, not many it has to be said, he then got us out of the Championship, said to be THE most competitive division there is. Led the division for much of the season.

- To be clear, two promotions in less than two full seasons.

- Played an attractive, attacking brand of football that got results. They don't always go hand-in-hand.

- Got the best out of players like Lambert and Lallana, which is not a given, despite their obvious quality

 

I feel stupid for even engaging in this discussion.

[supersonic]

Is there actually a debate here about how good Adkins was for us? How utterly ridiculous.

 

Nope, I'm not saying Adkins was bad for Saints at all, simply that he failed to reach the set objectives in his first season. Too many people are putting 2 and 2 together and getting 5.

 

As far as I'm aware, even Cortese wasn't expecting us to gain promotion in consecutive seasons, as we achieved his five year plan a year early, didn't we?

 

Whether Cortese also stipulated that we not only had to achieve promotion that season as champions rather than automatically is something that I do not know, but you're obviously certain that it had to be as champions and so Adkins is one lucky guy for not getting the bullet at the end of that first season, isn't he?

Les Reed:

 

Reed only talks about "getting out of divisions", not winning them, but I'm sure that you will be able to explain what he really meant, having internal contacts.

 

No, you're not the only one labelling Adkins a failure for not achieving promotion as champions. St Lard also thinks that too

 

Funny you should quote Reed, when Pardew left he had a list of 2 managers, Adkins wasn't on that list. He was a Cortese signing (his 2nd choice also). Our objectives were to win the league that season, we didn't.

 

It's also key to remember that what is said to the press/public is very different that what is said behind closed doors. Can you really see a senior club figure come out and say "We're really ****ed off we didn't win the league" after getting promoted?

 

It's always nice when all I need to do is repeat exactly the same post twice in succession. Here you go, again.

 

 

 

Have another think.

 

I get what you are trying to say, that because there are only two others who have managed to do what Adkins did he must be good.

 

Not necessarily.

 

Ronnie Moore is one of a select few managers never have been relegated, does that make him one of the G.O.A.T?

 

Let's review.

 

- Took over a team that had a poor start to the season, turned them into promotion-winners in an incredibly competitive division. Has Huddersfield's run been forgotten? The win at Brighton, where no opposing team had won all season?

- Adding a few players, not many it has to be said, he then got us out of the Championship, said to be THE most competitive division there is. Led the division for much of the season.

- To be clear, two promotions in less than two full seasons.

- Played an attractive, attacking brand of football that got results. They don't always go hand-in-hand.

- Got the best out of players like Lambert and Lallana, which is not a given, despite their obvious quality

 

I feel stupid for even engaging in this discussion.

 

I refer to my above point, Adkins did well but failed in League 1. The season we were down there wasn't really a decent season. Yes Huddersfield went on one almighty run and Brighton had a good season, but look at the players in that league and where they are now, only 3 non-Saints players have gone on to have decent top-flight careers (off the top of my head they are George Boyd, Ashley Barnes and Glenn Murray) whereas we have/had 8 in our squad alone.

[CB Fry]

 

I get what you are trying to say, that because there are only two others who have managed to do what Adkins did he must be good.

 

Not necessarily.

 

Ronnie Moore is one of a select few managers never have been relegated, does that make him one of the G.O.A.T?

 

 

This qualifies as "educated debated" does it? A Ronnie Moore shaped strawman. Great stuff.

Edited 7 June, 2015 by CB Fry

[Wes Tender]

Funny you should quote Reed, when Pardew left he had a list of 2 managers, Adkins wasn't on that list. He was a Cortese signing (his 2nd choice also). Our objectives were to win the league that season, we didn't.

 

It's also key to remember that what is said to the press/public is very different that what is said behind closed doors. Can you really see a senior club figure come out and say "We're really ****ed off we didn't win the league" after getting promoted?

 

I get what you are trying to say, that because there are only two others who have managed to do what Adkins did he must be good.

 

Not necessarily.

 

Ronnie Moore is one of a select few managers never have been relegated, does that make him one of the G.O.A.T?

 

 

As you are responding as if you know internal things for a fact, then you won't mind telling us who the other candidates were who were ahead of Adkins for Reed and for Cortese. If you can't, then I'm inclined to dismiss your statements as wind and p*ss. Ditto your assertion that despite Reed telling the media that we had exceeded expectations on both promotions and saying that the objective was not to get promotion as champions, but merely to get out of those divisions, it is too easy to dismiss it as just what the media would be told. Presumably the five year plan was a load of tosh, as you claim to know for a fact that we were expected to gain promotion from the Championship as champions. I think that you're talking a load of tosh. Hardly anybody believed that we would go up automatically that season, most thinking that we would have a season to consolidate our position before making the push the following season.

 

Your analogy re Ronnie Moore is also pretty weak. A bit different comparing managers who have achieved back to back promotions (success)with one of a few who has never experienced relegation (avoiding failure), hardly a name that is on the lips of the majority of football fans,

[Crazy Diamond]

I refer to my above point, Adkins did well but failed in League 1. The season we were down there wasn't really a decent season. Yes Huddersfield went on one almighty run and Brighton had a good season, but look at the players in that league and where they are now, only 3 non-Saints players have gone on to have decent top-flight careers (off the top of my head they are George Boyd, Ashley Barnes and Glenn Murray) whereas we have/had 8 in our squad alone.

 

You're either too hard to please or just stupid.

[Verbal]

I've bookmarked this thread as evidence.

[supersonic]

This qualifies as "educated debated" does it? A Ronnie Moore shaped strawman. Great stuff.

 

Another angle then, Wayne Rooney is well on course to be the only player to score 50 goals for England, does that automatically make him England's best player/forward?

 

As you are responding as if you know internal things for a fact, then you won't mind telling us who the other candidates were who were ahead of Adkins for Reed and for Cortese. If you can't, then I'm inclined to dismiss your statements as wind and p*ss. Ditto your assertion that despite Reed telling the media that we had exceeded expectations on both promotions and saying that the objective was not to get promotion as champions, but merely to get out of those divisions, it is too easy to dismiss it as just what the media would be told. Presumably the five year plan was a load of tosh, as you claim to know for a fact that we were expected to gain promotion from the Championship as champions. I think that you're talking a load of tosh. Hardly anybody believed that we would go up automatically that season, most thinking that we would have a season to consolidate our position before making the push the following season.

 

Your analogy re Ronnie Moore is also pretty weak. A bit different comparing managers who have achieved back to back promotions (success)with one of a few who has never experienced relegation (avoiding failure), hardly a name that is on the lips of the majority of football fans,

 

Eddie Howe was first choice of both Reed and Cortese. After that didn't happen Cortese wanted NA, Reed opposed. I don't know for certain who the other manager was on his list but it wasn't NA.

 

Just to clarify, I never said the board expected to win the Championship. That was merely my opinion based upon us being at the top for so much of the season.

 

You're either too hard to please or just stupid.

 

Hard to please.

Edited 7 June, 2015 by supersonic

[CB Fry]

Another angle then, Wayne Rooney is well on course to be the only player to score 50 goals for England, does that automatically make him England's best player/forward?

 

Another angle on what? I have all the angles I need to prove you are rather dim, but we'll done on serving up another one.

 

Educated debate ahoy.

[Lorne Malvo]

Atkins will be sacked by Xmas. Wonder if he would want to take Kelvin Davies with him to Sheffield?

[saint lard]

Jesus this is tedious.....some of you think he was the new messiah.....some us think he was overated and the love in was over the top.....

He's gone.....look to the future.

Or do we have to pay homge every time he moves on in his career.

This thread just enhances my thoughts on him......

Cliched,overated,overhyped...and I suspect will be languishing in the lower leagues where he will remain, until he gets lucky again.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CB Fry]

Jesus this is tedious.....some of you think he was the new messiah.....some us think he was overated and the love in was over the top.....

He's gone.....look to the future.

Or do we have to pay homge every time he moves on in his career.

This thread just enhances my thoughts on him......

Cliched,overated,overhyped...and I suspect will be languishing in the lower leagues where he will remain, until he gets lucky again.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

No one thought he was the new messiah.

 

Lots of people think you're a dinlow.

 

And simply delightful advice from you for people to "move on" when on this forum you pretty much only ever post about Adkins and never, ever miss a mention of his name without launching into your standard issue drivel.

 

Let's see if you can "move on". I bet you fu cking can't.